I have a couple questions.

[Demonblade]

I have a crush on a girlfriend of mine. Shes bisexual (I'm not bisexual or gay) and I don't know if a relationship with her would work out. Am I wrong?

 

And all of the people (there were only three) she only went out with them to make them happy. Why would she be do this?

[SanityFreeZone]

[Demonblade]

Are you saying you don't think it would work out because she is bisexual and you are straight?

 

If so, then I would say that you are wrong, yes.

 

Yeah thats what I meant. Not that I think its bad to be gay or bisexual. I'm just not too sure if she would want to be in a relationship with me because of that.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean from this..could you explain a little more?

 

Okay.

[Demonblade]

Lets say someone that she knew comes up to her and told her that he/she liked her. She would go with that peron and have a relationship with that person, not because she feels the same way about them, but just to make them happy. Can someone tell me why would she be doing this?

 

I hope you guys don't mind me asking another question but, what do you guys feel is the most important part of a relationship?

[SanityFreeZone]

Are you saying you don't think it would work out because she is bisexual and you are straight?

 

If so, then I would say that you are wrong, yes.

 

Yeah thats what I meant. Not that I think its bad to be gay or bisexual. I'm just not too sure if she would want to be in a relationship with me because of that.

 

 

Well, I fail to see the connection between her being bisexual, and wanting to be in a realtionship with you.

 

Why would her being bisexual make her any less likely to want to be in realtionship with you?

[Demonblade]

I admit I was wrong for thinking that she wouldn't persue a relationship with me for that/ That really isn't much of a reason is it.

 

 

 

Lets say someone that she knew comes up to her and told her that he/she liked her. She would go with that peron and have a relationship with that person, not because she feels the same way about them, but just to make them happy. Can someone tell me why would she be doing this?

 

I hope you guys don't mind me asking another question but, what do you guys feel is the most important part of a relationship?

Can someone answer these two questions please.

[darkblue]

Lets say someone that she knew comes up to her and told her that he/she liked her. She would go with that peron and have a relationship with that person, not because she feels the same way about them, but just to make them happy. Can someone tell me why would she be doing this?

 

I hope you guys don't mind me asking another question but, what do you guys feel is the most important part of a relationship?

 

1. She might feel sorry for the person or feel that she needs to because they've put themselves out on a limb and told her their feelings.

 

2. The most 'important part' of a relationship - that's a kinda general question but I think it's the beginning. First impressions, First kiss etc. They are the basis of how the other person is judged in a sense.

 

Good luck.

[Demonblade]

2. The most 'important part' of a relationship - that's a kinda general question but I think it's the beginning. First impressions, First kiss etc. They are the basis of how the other person is judged in a sense.

I don't mean that, but thanks though. I mean what do you feel are the most important things in a relationship. I know commitment is one, but what are the other things?

[SanityFreeZone]

[Miss M]

Lets say someone that she knew comes up to her and told her that he/she liked her. She would go with that peron and have a relationship with that person, not because she feels the same way about them, but just to make them happy. Can someone tell me why would she be doing this?

 

You say she's done this 3 times? It could definitely be a problem. Sounds like she might not be able to think of her own needs in a relationship, like she only sees herself as a type of doormat for others. If this kind of behavior dominates her personality, it means she can't say no, even it's it the best thing to do. It means she can't even think of herself as having separate needs from another person. Sometimes a person like this loses her awareness of her own voice, and her own sense of entitlement.

[Demonblade]

Respect, honesty and good communication...etc etc

 

I'm sorry, but I don't want "etc, etc". Can someone please list all of them (or as many as they can)?

 

Sorry if I sound bossy.

[Demonblade]

Lets say someone that she knew comes up to her and told her that he/she liked her. She would go with that peron and have a relationship with that person, not because she feels the same way about them, but just to make them happy. Can someone tell me why would she be doing this?

 

You say she's done this 3 times? It could definitely be a problem. Sounds like she might not be able to think of her own needs in a relationship, like she only sees herself as a type of doormat for others. If this kind of behavior dominates her personality, it means she can't say no, even it's it the best thing to do. It means she can't even think of herself as having separate needs from another person. Sometimes a person like this loses her awareness of her own voice, and her own sense of entitlement.

 

Would this also cause her to put up walls? Because she won't share literally anything with anyone. Not even her best friends. She won't even tell me anything and I've known her longer than any of one else.

[Miss M]

Well, I'm not sure if putting up walls is directly related. A person can also put up walls for totally unrelated reasons, not letting people in. But it also could indeed be related.

 

And keep in mind that I don't know her, so I'm just throwing a few things out for consideration, from my own experience. Only she can tell you what's going on in her particular circumstance and I don't intend to try to speak for her.

 

When a person can't perceive herself except through others, that might be some indication of at least some emotional abuse, or something worse. Being a compulsive doormat is sometimes a way of compulsively self-rejecting. (But there are also other reasons.) Perhaps someone earlier in her life has taught her it's safer to take care of others. Perhaps it was instilled that taking care of her own needs is harmful, even dangerous. It's easy for me to see how putting up walls can also be part of that dynamic, but again, this is just guesswork.

 

Just to help put this in perspective, I do have trouble feeling entitled to my own feelings and needs. And I also put up walls. That's why I can see how these two things are related. I create the walls to compensate for the fact that my overwhelming compulsion is to give too much of myself away. Internally it's a conflicted mess, being very giving while also being very closed-off, but it's a way of coping, of tryng to regain some balance.

 

And the walls could also be because she's not able to get a clear idea of how she feels about herself. Part of this giving and taking aspect of relationships has to do with recognizing and maintaining proper emotional boundaries. But if one doesn't really know what those boundaries are, that could also be a reason to put up walls. If you think of an emotional boundary as a type of invisible fence on your property, for some of us, that fence seems to free-float, shifting in the wind so that it's very unpredicatable. Or maybe it even sometimes disappears completely. If so, that's very unsettling, and putting up walls might be a way to try to feel internally stable in regard to that fence.

[Demonblade]

What do you think I should do to help her with this?

[Miss M]

I don't mind the questions at all. That's why I'm here posting on this board. But as to how you can help her, that's a tough one to answer without having more information.

 

What comes to mind right away is that if she's feeling self-sacrificing in an excessive way, out of touch with her feelings of entitlement, helping her could be difficult. Sometimes those who have wanted to help me have actually made things worse. Sometimes helpful people can overwhelm a person who is having these kinds of problems and make her withdraw even more. That's because helpfulness can actually be just another occasion for someone to control her, to tell her how to feel and how to act, just in a different way. There can be many unhelpful messages conveyed by those who see themselves as helpful. And that's the last thing she needs.

 

If you can know more about her family history that will give you some perspective about how she became that way. If she was often told to disregard her feelings, if her concerns were often dismissed, if others made decisions for her when she should have been making them for herself, that would mean she needs help with giving herself permission to consider her own preferences as valid ones. In that case she needs opportunities to hear her own voice, and gentle encouragement to make choices about what it's telling her. That could be something as small as letting her decide where you both will go on an outing, or what you will do when you get there. Basically she just needs to exercise the right to "vote" while in a relationship with another person. And she needs to know that her vote counts, that it is a valid one no matter how it turns out in the end.

 

Sometimes I use a park bench metaphor to explain this kind of relationship. If you're sitting on a bench and she walks by, also needing to sit down, can you generously scoot over to make a place for her, to make her feel welcome? She might be having a difficult time feeling welcome in her own being, and you can help by creating a welcoming space. Can you provide a warm and welcoming presense in the relationship for her personality? And also, if you scoot over to make a space but she hesitates, will you be offended? Will you pressure her to sit? Will you make her feel obligated in any way? IOW is the space you make for her unconditional? Do you make room for her and also invite her to say no if she feels that way? What I'm suggesting that if you want to help her you should invite her in a very gentle way to recognize and hear and listen to her own voice, even if that means she rejects you. Let her know that if she feels pressured by you in any way that she is free to say so... to say NO.

 

Let me know if these suggestions ring a bell. A lot depends the circumstances that created her need to self-reject, what her motivations are for that. And you can PM me if you like.

[Demonblade]

But how do I get her to tell me things like her family history and whether she was often told to disregard her feelings, if her concerns were often dismissed, or anything else like that? She won't tell me anything.

[Miss M]

If you really want to help her, you're going to need the patience of a saint. And it might require a lot of sacrifice from you in a way you don't realize. This is a difficult task to take on and is not an easy one depending on your personality. Also a lot depends on what type of person YOU are. It is entirely possible this is beyond your scope and ability and you should be prepared to accept that as well.

 

You also should realize that she is not obligated to tell you anything at all. Making her feel pressured or obligated in any way is the opposite of what she needs. You may be able to eventually get her to open up, but it will not happen if you try to be forceful about it.

 

Also, whatever lurks inside might be something that she isn't able to handle. Sometimes the pain is far too tremendous to acknowledge, even to herself. If you don't suffer in this way you have no idea what you're asking her to reveal, what that will do to her. Your questions could even be very harmful. You can't push her on this in that way. Your need to know just cannot take precedence over her need to keep it a secret. You have to get comfortable with that, otherwise, please leave her alone. I would not advise you in a way that would bring further harm to her.

 

Also, this is a huge emotional investment for you, especially at such a young age. This can take a huge toll on the person trying to help, even if he does everything right. You need to think seriously about whether you're able to do this.

 

Since I don't expect to talk you out of anything at this point, tell me how she is with you. When you two are together, who decides what you do, where you go, what you eat? Do you think you are a controlling person? Are you very opinionated? How does she seem in this friendship with you? Tell me about the overall dynamics of your relationship with her. How long have the two of you been friends? From that maybe I will get more of an idea about what to suggest.

[Cadence308]

I know a woman who is similar to this girl that you are talking about. The woman I know is from a religious upbringing (Catholic). Her mom was extremely religious and I know that she went to a private Catholic school growing up. For the longest time, I thought this woman didn't have a father because whenever she would tell me anything it was about her mother.

 

Currently, I am not in contact with this woman. She's also a lesbian. I think her gf found out about me. The last time I spoke with this woman she told me that she can't be my confidante because she's much older than me and there's many miles between us.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to go off on a tangent about your post. I am just wondering how to get someone like this to open up and trust again because she sounds a lot like this woman I know.

 

Do you think being raised in a religious upbringing could make someone suppress their feelings and identity? Particularly if it were a woman since religion is patriarchal?

[Demonblade]

We usually hang out with one or two of our friends. She is very calm. She decides what we do, where we go, and the only time we eat anything is when we go to the movies (which is rare). I'm don't think I'm controlling and I don't try to be (I don't think I've ever been controlling). I'm not very opinionated. She seems very happy that she knows me and we've been friends for over 5 years (we met on May 18, 2000, I remember where too). What do you mean by the "dynamics". (I have a limited vocabulary sometimes.

 

I'm just happy to be around her.

[Miss M]

Do you think being raised in a religious upbringing could make someone suppress their feelings and identity? Particularly if it were a woman since religion is patriarchal?

I don't think the strict religion alone would cause a problem. Those who are well-loved and not mistreated tend to be mostly okay even in strict religious upbringings.

 

 

We usually hang out with one or two of our friends. She is very calm. She decides what we do, where we go, and the only time we eat anything is when we go to the movies (which is rare). I'm don't think I'm controlling and I don't try to be (I don't think I've ever been controlling). I'm not very opinionated. She seems very happy that she knows me and we've been friends for over 5 years (we met on May 18, 2000, I remember where too). What do you mean by the "dynamics". (I have a limited vocabulary sometimes.

 

I'm just happy to be around her.

You seem very sincere and caring. And you remember the date and place you met? But you were 11 at the time, right? Oh, that's very sweet.

 

Just to give you some more info about me... I'm 49, and been in therapy for 20 years. Four years ago, I started reading psychology books to try to understand what's been going on with me. So far I've read about 40 psych books. In some ways I ended up knowing more about my problem than my psychologist even though she has her Phd. But she still often misunderstood how to help me before I read those books. I'd been spinning my wheels in therapy for years because some therapists don't understand this. But those who do have written a lot of books, and that's where I finally started getting some relief. My problem is multi-layered and would take too long to explain. It also takes a long time to reverse the damage so I don't know if I'll get much better anytime soon.

 

While reading all those books, I also came to understand other people who also suffer. My trauma isn't as bad as some others. But I have a tremendous amount of respect for those who suffer even worse than I do. I can usually recognize when a person is self-rejecting and emotionally traumatized, and your friend seems to be suffering in that way. I also know what it has done to me when my therapist pushed too hard before I could handle it so I would caution against that. When you push without understanding, you only re-traumatize the person. I don't know how your friend feels, how bad it is for her. But I know it's probably harmful for you to pressure her.

 

What I've described in my earlier posts are the kinds of things I would need from a friend in order for me to feel safe. If she won't tell you about her past, my advice about creating a warm and welcoming place still applies. It might take a lot of time for her to finally experience that safety with you over and over and over before she opens up to you about her past. Or maybe she will never do it at all. You have to also be prepared for that as well.

 

When I ask about the "dynamics" I mean how you two interact with each other. How you treat her, what you say to her, how she responds, if she seems comfortable and appreciative of you. If she's closed up, you might tell me what you said to her and I can tell you why that made her yell. Sometimes we expect a certain response and get something different. I can sometimes tell you why that happens if I know more of the details.

[Demonblade]

We usually hang out with one or two of our friends. She is very calm. She decides what we do, where we go, and the only time we eat anything is when we go to the movies (which is rare). I'm don't think I'm controlling and I don't try to be (I don't think I've ever been controlling). I'm not very opinionated. She seems very happy that she knows me and we've been friends for over 5 years (we met on May 18, 2000, I remember where too). What do you mean by the "dynamics". (I have a limited vocabulary sometimes.

 

I'm just happy to be around her.

You seem very sincere and caring. And you remember the date and place you met? But you were 11 at the time, right? Oh, that's very sweet.

 

Just to give you some more info about me... I'm 49, and been in therapy for 20 years. Four years ago, I started reading psychology books to try to understand what's been going on with me. So far I've read about 40 psych books. In some ways I ended up knowing more about my problem than my psychologist even though she has her Phd. But she still often misunderstood how to help me before I read those books. I'd been spinning my wheels in therapy for years because some therapists don't understand this. But those who do have written a lot of books, and that's where I finally started getting some relief. My problem is multi-layered and would take too long to explain. It also takes a long time to reverse the damage so I don't know if I'll get much better anytime soon.

 

While reading all those books, I also came to understand other people who also suffer. My trauma isn't as bad as some others. But I have a tremendous amount of respect for those who suffer even worse than I do. I can usually recognize when a person is self-rejecting and emotionally traumatized, and your friend seems to be suffering in that way. I also know what it has done to me when my therapist pushed too hard before I could handle it so I would caution against that. When you push without understanding, you only re-traumatize the person. I don't know how your friend feels, how bad it is for her. But I know it's probably harmful for you to pressure her.

 

What I've described in my earlier posts are the kinds of things I would need from a friend in order for me to feel safe. If she won't tell you about her past, my advice about creating a warm and welcoming place still applies. It might take a lot of time for her to finally experience that safety with you over and over and over before she opens up to you about her past. Or maybe she will never do it at all. You have to also be prepared for that as well.

 

When I ask about the "dynamics" I mean how you two interact with each other. How you treat her, what you say to her, how she responds, if she seems comfortable and appreciative of you. If she's closed up, you might tell me what you said to her and I can tell you why that made her yell. Sometimes we expect a certain response and get something different. I can sometimes tell you why that happens if I know more of the details.

 

Well, I compliment her every once in a while (you know complimant her dress, personality, etc.) and we talk about a movie one or both of us saw and find some way to make fun and insult it. We don't talk much about ourselves, but we talk about a lot of different things. Whenever we're talking, or if I just look at her, she smiles (I do too). I treat her as best I can and she does seem very appreciative and very comfortable around me. We hang out with one or two of our friends. But her parents don't know about me yet.

 

Yes, we met May 18, 2000 at our karate class. I still remember our sensei screaming at us for 20 minutes to get the two of us to stop talking and start doing whatever we were supposed to do at the time. (We even celebrate our friendship on May 18 every year)

[Miss M]

Well, I compliment her every once in a while (you know complimant her dress, personality, etc.) and we talk about a movie one or both of us saw and find some way to make fun and insult it. We don't talk much about ourselves, but we talk about a lot of different things. Whenever we're talking, or if I just look at her, she smiles (I do too). I treat her as best I can and she does seem very appreciative and very comfortable around me. We hang out with one or two of our friends.

So I'm getting this feeling this is a very casual friendship? In my friendships I'm very chatty and tell my companions all about what I like, what I don't. IOW when I'm comfortable, I'm very opinionated and open, and if they're paying attention they get to know all about me. You say you don't talk about yourselves? Does that mean you don't know her dreams and fears? Do you know what she wants to do with her life as an adult? Do you know her least-liked or most-liked subjects in school? Do you know what teacher she likes the best? Do you know what music she likes? Do you know if she likes a cat or a dog or a goldfish for a pet? Her favorite color? Her favorite cologne?

 

But her parents don't know about me yet.

And why is that?

[Miss M]

I forgot, (and so did you what were you asking/saying that time she yelled?

[Demonblade]

Well, I compliment her every once in a while (you know complimant her dress, personality, etc.) and we talk about a movie one or both of us saw and find some way to make fun and insult it. We don't talk much about ourselves, but we talk about a lot of different things. Whenever we're talking, or if I just look at her, she smiles (I do too). I treat her as best I can and she does seem very appreciative and very comfortable around me. We hang out with one or two of our friends.

So I'm getting this feeling this is a very casual friendship? In my friendships I'm very chatty and tell my companions all about what I like, what I don't. IOW when I'm comfortable, I'm very opinionated and open, and if they're paying attention they get to know all about me. You say you don't talk about yourselves? Does that mean you don't know her dreams and fears? Do you know what she wants to do with her life as an adult? Do you know her least-liked or most-liked subjects in school? Do you know what teacher she likes the best? Do you know what music she likes? Do you know if she likes a cat or a dog or a goldfish for a pet? Her favorite color? Her favorite cologne?

 

But her parents don't know about me yet.

And why is that?

 

I know all of that. I just don't know any personal stuff about her or her favorite cologne. She says she doesn't have any fears (which I don't really believe). She knows the only fear I have.

 

Forgot to mention what made her yell at me. It seemed more like a fearful yell than an angry one. Before I knew about all of the walls she had been putting up, I asked her if she wanted to be closer friends and she said yes. She asked me to tell her what was depressing me from before and I told her (she was very comforting about it). A little bit after I told her I asked her if she wanted to share anything personal with me. That's when she started yelling. Good thing we were in private when she started to yell.

 

I don't know why she keeps me a secret from her parents. I asked her and she said that she didn't want to say yet. Her tone sounded as though she was trying to protect me from something.

[Miss M]

I know all of that. I just don't know any personal stuff about her or her favorite cologne.

 

Honestly, I'm a bit perplexed. You've known her 5 years, but you don't know any personal stuff, not even her favorite cologne? I find that odd. Are you a "best" friend? One of her best friends? Is it that you've never thought to ask, or is it that guys in general don't think of these things?

 

So do YOU have a favorite cologne? And does she know what it is? And these might seem like irrelevant questions, but I actually have a reason for asking them. If you haven't even gotten close enough to her to ask her some basic personal questions that good friends usually share, I wouldn't think it would work very well to dive into the more complicated, sensitive and intimate stuff you've been wanting to know about her. It goes back to what I was saying before about making the emotional space safe and unconditional. It's possible that you care about her, but perhaps you haven't conveyed it well enough for her to feel it. And again, the kind of sensitivity you need may be beyond your capacity. That's not a bad thing, but you should be realistic about what you're trying to do. The most important word I can think of at the moment is EMPATHY.

 

Forgot to mention what made her yell at me. It seemed more like a fearful yell than an angry one. Before I knew about all of the walls she had been putting up, I asked her if she wanted to be closer friends and she said yes. She asked me to tell her what was depressing me from before and I told her (she was very comforting about it).

 

I'm capable of being a great comfort to others, but much less capable of feeling comfortable enough to let them know intimate details about me. Part of that is because I've spent so much of my life in the caretaker role and have gotten really good at it. And part of that is because I can sense when others aren't capable of being good caretakers to me. So I withhold information from them. She may not feel safe with you because it's difficult for her to feel safe with anybody. Or she may not feel safe with you because you've communicated in some way that you aren't capable of being sensitive to her needs. So far I'm still clueless as to which of those it could be because I'm not getting enough information from you about what's going on.

 

A little bit after I told her I asked her if she wanted to share anything personal with me. That's when she started yelling. Good thing we were in private when she started to yell.

 

So was she yelling with words, or just making loud unintelligible sounds? If with words, what did she say? If it seems too personal PM me.

 

I don't know why she keeps me a secret from her parents. I asked her and she said that she didn't want to say yet. Her tone sounded as though she was trying to protect me from something.

People pleasers (aka doormats) are the way they are because they are typically and habitually trying to protect others from something, often to their own detriment.