A lot of anger and nowhere to release it.

[Cynder]

This is probably going to be a little confusing because there are a lot of layers to this whole situation. 

My recent ex and I are pretty much talking on a daily basis, as friends.  There hasn't been any drama, and everything's been fine.  Our relationship ended because of his mental health issues. 

Well, we are both active in the festival scene.  I'm a vendor.  He works security at some shows.  He's also a performer at some.  And he runs an animal rescue.  So there are shows where he has a booth raising money for his animal rescue. 

There is a festival that takes place multiple times a year at different locations in my state.  I will refer to it as OM.  OM used to be one of my go to shows.  I used to be at all of them.  I am also the admin of the OM Facebook group which has about 2500 members.  This is a group for vendors, volunteers, and pretty much anyone who works behind the scenes.  OM also has a lot of problems and for the last few years has kind of been limping along and going way down hill.  The organizer doesn't want to do any actual work.  He expects everyone to do his work for free while he sits back and collects money and clout. 

So, I introduced my ex to OM, and  it's something I've regretted ever since.  It's hard to explain why without writing a novel of backstory and without going into a huge explanations of festival politics, but OM caused a lot of problems for him and for us as a couple.  The woman he calls his sister because really active in it as well and caused a lot of drama.  His sister is one of those people who destroys everything she touches.  She doesn't have any friends.  She has two grown kids who don't speak to her.  She's just the definition of toxicity. 

So after I introduced him to OM, his sister got completely obsessed with it, and started getting a booth at every show.  She has a lot of money to throw around because of a big inheritance.  And in the festival scene, money gets you far.  Especially at a show like OM where the organizer is clearly only in it for the money. 

I can't go into every detail here because the post would be way too long.  I know there are probably people reading this wondering what this festival and his sister and my friendship with him all have to do with each other.  But basically before OM became a factor, his relationship with his sister wasn't a toxic relationship.  But after OM, she started causing problems in his life everywhere.  She started showing up at his job and causing problems which led to him being fired.  A pretty big chunk of money that people donated to his animal rescue just disappeared once when she was left unsupervised at this booth.  And it was on their way to an OM show that they got into this massive screaming match that caused him to get out of the car and run across four lanes of traffic. 

It's like they went from being friends who think of each other like siblings, to her having to be up his ass constantly and causing all kinds of problems, once he started doing OM.  And he wouldn't have known about OM, if it weren't for me.  Last night we were talking.  He's been really sick lately.  He has RSV.  He was telling me he has a job interview Wednesday that he might have to reschedule because he's so sick.  And one thing we have always done, even before we ever dated, was ask each other what we were looking forward to when one of us was having a bad day.  Last night he was telling me how miserable he is, and that he's worried about having to reschedule this interview, etc.  And I asked him what he's looking forward to.  He said, "At the moment, I'm just looking forward to getting better."  And I said, "OM is coming up, that's something to look forward to, too." 

And he said, "Well, I hate doing OM anymore because she's always there and there's always trouble."  I didn't know this.  I assumed when they cut ties back in October, that she quit doing OM, too.  But apparently every time there's an OM show, she is there and she makes him miserable the whole time. 

It's hard to explain why this upsets me so much.  I just keep thinking about all the problems we both could have avoided if I would have never taken him to a damn OM show.  Even though I know I'm not, I still feel responsible. 

I also have a lot of anger over all of this and nowhere to put it.  Not anger at him, but at her and at the situation.  I just wish none of this would have happened.  He was so excited to be a part of OM when I first took him there.  And she is one of those people who can't handle seeing anyone happy.  Last night we talked about this and I told him how angry I am about it all.  He told me that anger is just part of the human experience, and that he wishes he could do something to help me not feel this way.  Bottom line is I am just really upset and pissed off that this is all still going on and that none of it would be going on if it wasn't for a bad decision I made last year. 

I know this is a confusing thread and it might not make a lot of sense.  I just wanted to get all this out and I don't have another therapy appointment until next week.  Any thoughts anyone has are welcome. 

[Batya33]

Your introducing him to it didn't cause the issues -it's way too attenuated.  He had to choose to go and choose to keep going.  Feelings are feelings- you feel what you feel -what do you usually do to let out anger in a healthful way?

[catfeeder]

1 hour ago, Cynder said:

...none of it would be going on if it wasn't for a bad decision I made last year. 

Careful of your spin. You introduced him to something he loved. He's the one who introduced it to her, not you.

Figure out what you're getting from the self-pile-on. You do recognize that it's possible to be frustrated about a thing without blaming yourself, right?

[Cynder]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

You do recognize that it's possible to be frustrated about a thing without blaming yourself, right?

That's actually something I've never even thought about until now.  Like, I've never even considered this.  And it's probably because as I was growing up, no matter what the problem was it was always my fault.  I mean, I was scapegoated and blamed for everything as a kid, and even to some degree as an adult. My family seemed to think everything I did was some cold calculated move to make them all miserable. 

It's hard to explain why him telling me that suffering is just part of the human experience pissed me off, too.  That really hit a nerve but I kept my mouth shut because I know he meant well.  But that is up there with being told, "What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger!"  It just seems like a really tone deaf thing to say to someone who is actually suffering. And suffering is actually the word he used.  I know in my OP it says anger.  I don't really know why I wrote that.  I meant to write suffering, I guess anger was just the word in my head at the time.  I can't edit it now. 

And we were actually starting to have a real conversation about this whole situation, which is going to happen at some point.  And just as I was getting comfortable and opening up about some stuff involving his sister and OM, he told me we need to stop and save this for another time because he's really sick and just doesn't have the mental/emotional capacity right now.  Which is fine.  I understand that.  But it's also frustrating on a more emotional level, because I feel like I have all this stuff I want to say, and it started to come out, and then I just had to turn it off. 

 

[boltnrun]

Does he tend to dominate conversations and talk about his feelings but when it's you wanting to talk and share does he shut the conversation down?

[Cynder]

34 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Does he tend to dominate conversations and talk about his feelings but when it's you wanting to talk and share does he shut the conversation down?

No.  Our conversations have always been pretty balanced.  I was friends with him for 5 years before we dated.  That was never an issue.  

He has RSV, which is absolute misery. I don't see anything wrong with him saying he doesn't want to talk about this while he's so sick.  But even if it makes logical sense, emotions don't always follow logic.  

[ShySoul]

Toxic people are going to be toxic regardless of your actions. It has nothing to do with you and is all on them. You did something nice for a friend you really care about. That's where your responsibility in all of it ends. Everything else is on the two of them, particularly her. And even if they had never learned of OM, her toxic behavior would have found some other way to rear its ugly head in, causing just as many issues in some other way. A persons true nature will always show in the end.

If emotions did follow logic, life would be a lot easier. Unfortunately we just have to stumble our way through trying to find the right balance. Yes, what he said is true. People suffer. But when you are the one suffering, hearing that comes across as a dismissal. What a person is looking for is support. I guess he has a pass being sick, but there was probably a better way he could have phrased it.

Hang in there buddy. Go ahead and ride the anger, let yourself feel it if you need to. It'll come down soon enough. 

[Cynder]

1 hour ago, ShySoul said:

Toxic people are going to be toxic regardless of your actions. It has nothing to do with you and is all on them. You did something nice for a friend you really care about. That's where your responsibility in all of it ends. Everything else is on the two of them, particularly her. And even if they had never learned of OM, her toxic behavior would have found some other way to rear its ugly head in, causing just as many issues in some other way. A persons true nature will always show in the end.

If emotions did follow logic, life would be a lot easier. Unfortunately we just have to stumble our way through trying to find the right balance. Yes, what he said is true. People suffer. But when you are the one suffering, hearing that comes across as a dismissal. What a person is looking for is support. I guess he has a pass being sick, but there was probably a better way he could have phrased it.

Hang in there buddy. Go ahead and ride the anger, let yourself feel it if you need to. It'll come down soon enough. 

I wish I could afford to do a rage painting like I want to do it.  I have a few huge canvases that were given to me years ago.  When I say huge I mean like 4x6 feet.  That's bigger than anything I've ever painted.  And I really want to just throw paint all over one of them.  But to do that required a lot of paint.  

I channeled all my anger at the man who sexuallly abused me into a painting once and it's currently in a gallery where I'm the featured artist.  So if I can make something out if that I can make something out of this.  

I wish more people had his level of self-awareness. Because right after making the suffering comment, he actually said "I didn't mean for that to sound like I'm dismissing you." I just wish more people put thought into their words like he does. Even in that case where he said it and then right afterwards realized how it came out. The world needs .ore of that.   

[Kwothe28]

Remember our talk about the mess and how you laughed it up? Well, enjoy that mess now.

Just remember, this isnt his sister, his husband, or even his fault. Its directly yours by leaving that whole mess into your life. Unlike other people I think this is on you and you only. Until you get rid of him completely and work on yourself so the next one also doesnt be the mess, this will keep happening.

[Cynder]

29 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Remember our talk about the mess and how you laughed it up? Well, enjoy that mess now.

Just remember, this isnt his sister, his husband, or even his fault. Its directly yours by leaving that whole mess into your life. Unlike other people I think this is on you and you only. Until you get rid of him completely and work on yourself so the next one also doesnt be the mess, this will keep happening.

I "laughed it up" because you are of the mindset that this relationship was so messy becauae it was a poly relationship, and no other reason.  I don't agree with that.  There are plenty of healthy poly relationships just like there are plenty of unhealthy monogamous relationships.  

And this thread isn't even about anything he did wrong.  Did you read the original post?  Lol

So yea, I laughed and I will continue to laugh.  You're views are so black and white and not nuanced at all.  And I don't take those sorts of views seriously.  

Also, thank you, in all sincerity.  Because laughter is one way to not feel angry.  

[Kwothe28]

1 minute ago, Cynder said:

I "laughed it up" because you are of the mindset that this relationship was so messy becauae it was a poly relationship, and no other reason. 

And was I wrong? Is all of this you described not the mess?

3 minutes ago, Cynder said:

And this thread isn't even about anything he did wrong. 

Really?

7 hours ago, Cynder said:

It's hard to explain why him telling me that suffering is just part of the human experience pissed me off, too. 

Unlike people who dont want to tell you something they would routinely tell some new Forum member, I just tell you like it is. You created countless threads about your other messy ex(trans woman as I remember). And now about this polyamorous man. Again, maybe its some norm in California or wherever you live. But that screams "mess" to anyone who isnt in your circle of people. Biggest leftist streamer on Twitch also thought polyamory is a way to go. Got him to divorce and to his wife leaving him for another man. Because that is a mess by default. But you coping how "there are other successful poly relationships" is just that. Coping. Again, was yours successful or was it a mess that resulted in a break up and creating this whole thread? Was yours healthy relationship or just part of the statistics? Which I believe says how 90% of open marriages end up in divorce. And again, I dont even need your answer on that, you created at least 20 threads about your 2 relationships that prove they were exactly what I say. A mess.

I believe you are blaming yourself for all the wrong reasons while absolving other side of it. While you dont have enough of accountability for the right reasons. Again, cut out the mess out of your life. And work on yourself so the next one wouldnt be a mess. Otherwise, this is all you would be getting. Him and his messy circle creating a mess in your life. So that you would need to "release the anger" somewhere. Again, maybe next time try to find someone who wouldnt make you do that. Just saying.

[Cynder]

10 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

And was I wrong? Is all of this you described not the mess?

Really?

Unlike people who dont want to tell you something they would routinely tell some new Forum member, I just tell you like it is. You created countless threads about your other messy ex(trans woman as I remember). And now about this polyamorous man. Again, maybe its some norm in California or wherever you live. But that screams "mess" to anyone who isnt in your circle of people. Biggest leftist streamer on Twitch also thought polyamory is a way to go. Got him to divorce and to his wife leaving him for another man. Because that is a mess by default. But you coping how "there are other successful poly relationships" is just that. Coping. Again, was yours successful or was it a mess that resulted in a break up and creating this whole thread? Was yours healthy relationship or just part of the statistics? Which I believe says how 90% of open marriages end up in divorce. And again, I dont even need your answer on that, you created at least 20 threads about your 2 relationships that prove they were exactly what I say. A mess.

I believe you are blaming yourself for all the wrong reasons while absolving other side of it. While you dont have enough of accountability for the right reasons. Again, cut out the mess out of your life. And work on yourself so the next one wouldnt be a mess. Otherwise, this is all you would be getting. Him and his messy circle creating a mess in your life. So that you would need to "release the anger" somewhere. Again, maybe next time try to find someone who wouldnt make you do that. Just saying.

So no one ever feels any anger when a monogamous relationship ends, then? Is that what you're trying to convince me of? Because I'm not convinced.  

And when two people do everything by the book according to what society says they should do, and a relationship ends, no one ever gets angry? Do you honestly believe that? 

Even if both people go strictly no contact, there's always going to be some heightened level of emotion when a relationship ends.  It's just part of the process.  Unless it was a situation where they both didn't care about the other and both just wanted out.  

Just because you are personally against something doesn't mean it's automatically wrong and bad.  

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, Cynder said:

Just because you are personally against something doesn't mean it's automatically wrong and bad.  

"Vilainizying"(I think thats the word lol) me wont make your relationship with him less messy. But its OK, I understand, laughing and deflecting, as well as finding somebody else as a bad guy is your coping mechanism. 

Also, I am fairy liberal. And I really, really cant tell you how much I dont care if you date poly person, trans person or even "ET go home" alien person. But me as somebody here to help you is obligated to tell you that something with 90% failure is a messy thing to begin with. And that it did created a mess. Him leaving you because that mess, then as I remember even using his husband account to message you and stuff like that, only furthers that mess. And it wont stop until you and you yourself cut him out completely. And find ways to not associated in future with people like that. Preferably by imploring therapy and you yourself not being a mess. Otherwise, again, this is all you will be getting. Looking forward to another thread how his behavior and his click made you mad at the Festival. Because again, that is sooooooo healthy thing to do lol. 

[Cynder]

1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

"Vilainizying"(I think thats the word lol) me wont make your relationship with him less messy. But its OK, I understand, laughing and deflecting, as well as finding somebody else as a bad guy is your coping mechanism. 

Also, I am fairy liberal. And I really, really cant tell you how much I dont care if you date poly person, trans person or even "ET go home" alien person. But me as somebody here to help you is obligated to tell you that something with 90% failure is a messy thing to begin with. And that it did created a mess. Him leaving you because that mess, then as I remember even using his husband account to message you and stuff like that, only furthers that mess. And it wont stop until you and you yourself cut him out completely. And find ways to not associated in future with people like that. Preferably by imploring therapy and you yourself not being a mess. Otherwise, again, this is all you will be getting. Looking forward to another thread how his behavior and his click made you mad at the Festival. Because again, that is sooooooo healthy thing to do lol. 

Nothing I said villainized anyone.  

I just brought up some points for you to consider.  Mainly the fact that people get emotional when relationships end.  Even if it was the most vanilla, conservative relationship ever.  It's part of the process.  I don't see how that's villainizing you or anyone.  

Also, most relationships end.  Go look at the divorce rates.  How many people do you know who married the first person they ever dated and stayed together for the rest of their lives? So it doesn't really matter what the success rate is.  Most relationships end.  That's just reality.  

And by "people like that," I assume you mean polyamorous people? So I should never associate with "people like that" again?  So "people like that" should be ignored by others then and basically be treated like social outcasts? Who's villainizing who again? 

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, Cynder said:

And by "people like that," I assume you mean polyamorous people? So I should never associate with "people like that" again?  

Again with the victim complex and need to paint somebody else as a villain? By "people like that" I mean messy people. Again, I really dont care if its poly, trans or alien. But you should avoid any mess in general. Poly married man who by his own admissions is a mess and left you because of that, is a mess. Transitioning person who left you before the wedding is a mess. Your ex husband(or boyfriend) who tried to boot you out of festival is a mess even though he is straight man. Do you see the pattern there? Or do you still think I have something against somebody? Again I dont care. He might as well be decent human being. But as a person he is not good for you and you should stop associating with him if you want a functioning relationship in the future. If you want all of this to continue, to open the thread about him every month, then do please continue to associate with him. Just dont blame anyone but yourself in future for it. 

[Cynder]

45 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Again with the victim complex and need to paint somebody else as a villain? By "people like that" I mean messy people. Again, I really dont care if its poly, trans or alien. But you should avoid any mess in general. Poly married man who by his own admissions is a mess and left you because of that, is a mess. Transitioning person who left you before the wedding is a mess. Your ex husband(or boyfriend) who tried to boot you out of festival is a mess even though he is straight man. Do you see the pattern there? Or do you still think I have something against somebody? Again I dont care. He might as well be decent human being. But as a person he is not good for you and you should stop associating with him if you want a functioning relationship in the future. If you want all of this to continue, to open the thread about him every month, then do please continue to associate with him. Just dont blame anyone but yourself in future for it. 

My ex who tried to get me banned from a festival is the very definition of squeaky clean.  He checks all the right boxes.  Multiple college degrees, came from a very nice and affluent family, a business owner, very intelligent, very attractive, funny, etc.  We were monogamous. He had a very traditional way of seeing the world.  And he was cis and straight and single, also, because it's very clear those are things you use to determine if someone is "messy" or not.  

You also contradict yourself.  You say you aren't bothered by trans people or polyamory, but then turn around and talk bad about both groups of people.  And if you say it's not those qualities that made them "messy" why do you keep pointing out those things?  You keep repeated that D is polyamorous.  Not sure if you're aware, but he's trans also.  And you keep pointing out that my other ex was trans.  If those things are irrelevant, why keep mentioning them? 

So, someone who is trans is a mess.  Someone who is poly is a mess.  And someone who is neither of those things and is what society considers a good catch, is also a mess.  Then who is left exactly?  If people were only expected to associate with people who are completely faultless, no one would associate with anyone. 

I went to college on a full rude scholarship.  I graduated with honors.  I own a business and I have a successful art career.  I own a home, also.  I'm about to release my first novel.  I've learned to control my OCD 98% of the time through therapy and meditation.  My physical health is good.  I have a good day job where I am well liked by customers and co-workers.  I just had my first feature show in a gallery.  I have a good credit score.  I've never had any issues with substance abuse.  I don't have any unwanted kids running around.  I have no criminal record. And I pay my bills on time.  You've also said that I'm "messy."  

So by your definition who isn't "messy?"   

I'm really not trying to argue.  I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.  I mean, what you consider messy is a pretty wide spectrum. 
 

[Kwothe28]

4 minutes ago, Cynder said:

I went to college on a full rude scholarship.  I graduated with honors.  I own a business and I have a successful art career.  I own a home, also.  I'm about to release my first novel.  I've learned to control my OCD 98% of the time through therapy and meditation.  My physical health is good.  I have a good day job where I am well liked by customers and co-workers.  I just had my first feature show in a gallery.  I have a good credit score.  I've never had any issues with substance abuse.  I don't have any unwanted kids running around.  I have no criminal record. And I pay my bills on time.  You've also said that I'm "messy."  

Good for you. Doesnt make your life not a mess. 

Do you even understand that not everybody get the problems you have? That not everybody gets left before the wedding? Not everybody have a messy ex who they constantly associate with? Not everybody create a monthly thread about those exes with another problem they cause? 

Now do you believe that what happens to you

A) is just a coincidence

B) is something you created with your bad choices

You can be most perfect person in the world. And still be a mess. Precisely because your choices. I have a friend that is model like beauty, bought a very nice car, just got a promotion on the job and loves to travel and does that frequently. Do you know who her last boyfriend was? Some guy who made another girl pregnant. And that is not the first for her. Her last before that was an abuser. Even though I am pretty sure she could beat him lol. But anyway, that is because her choices show how messy she was. Her last guy was fairly good to her. But she could say to him all kind of stuff and create a mess. Same with you. I applaud you on your success, I really do. But your choices show that you are far from healthy person, at least mentally. And that you choose huge messes that end up creating more mess. That is why I implored you to work on that. Even though you laugh and think how I dont think you good. On the contrary, I spend my time writing this because I think you can do good in life. But that you just are a mess and still need more work. Hope you would do that work so I dont see another thread about this guy and mess he created for you. But sadly, already know its not going to happen. Not because I am clairvoyant. But because it keeps happening and you wont do anything about that. So again, enjoy your mess while thinking everything is fine. 

[Cynder]

42 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Good for you. Doesnt make your life not a mess. 

 

This sums it up.  It's clear you attribute the quality of a person's life to the success of their relationships only.  And since most relationships fail, by your logic almost no one lives a life that isn't messy.  My youngest brother started dating a girl in 7th grade.  I mean, dating to to the best of their ability, they were 12.  They stayed together all through high school and college and are now married with two kids.  That is a rare occurrence.  So you would consider my brother to not be a messy person.  But, he cheats on his wife regularly.  He hates his job.  He's not a happy person at all. 

And I'm not sure what wedding you're talking about.  I've only been married once.  You've said multiple times that I got "left before the wedding." Nope.  I think you're thinking of someone else.  My wedding happened and I was married for 8 years to someone who also checked all the right boxes and was what society would consider amazing.  He was good at almost everything except being a husband.  He is also one of the few toxic people I've seen do a completely 180 and turn his life around.  He got therapy.  He went to anger management classes.  He got evaluated and got on meds that calmed him down.  And he was a true Renaissance man.  A musician, a film maker, a really good photographer, etc.  I don't regret being married to him. 

I created this thread because I wanted to talk about what I was feeling and I don't have a therapy session for another week.  Writing about things and getting feedback from others is something that helps me a lot. That's part of why this forum exists. If you don't want to see any of my threads, put me on your ignore list. 

You think I "could do good in life." I am doing good in life. 😀

 

 

[Cynder]

So, just an update on this situation, There is an OM show this weekend.  Him and I were texting a little while ago, and he told me he's not doing any OM shows from here on out, not even the one this weekend, which I know he had a booth at. 

I asked him what happened and he told me he was about to drive and we will talk about it later.  He absolutely refuses to text and drive, so that's totally fine.  I am curious what the scoop is, though.  I wonder if he made this decision or if she got him banned.  I know someone was actively trying to get him banned from OM.  I don't know who it was, but I'm guessing it was his sister. 

I am on the fence, regarding how I feel about this.  If she is making it miserable for him, I'm glad he's not going back.  But if she got him banned, that really sucks. 

I just figured I would update this thread, considering the situation is different now.