What’s next?

[Whirling D]

4 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

One way to see this:

It's all pretty consistent with the past 10 weeks. I think her "radio silence" was frustrating to you even over the dating app, if I recall. Though the break in that silence—which I imagine is on the horizon—has always invigorating.

I do use radio silence in quotes here because I personally believe that not talking for 24 hours should be okay, especially when someone lets you know ahead of time that they're going to be less communicative than usual. 

But her hair comment continues to grate on you, and it may very well be that she cannot sustain the level of contact that you need for security. Both of those things, while sad, are important to learn.

 

All true, blue… Although, she was the one that encouraged, at least in the beginning, and really still was… That we talk almost every night and every morning.

There were Times I wondered if a codependency was brewing, and I didn’t really think that would be such a bad thing, if both of us were up for that. But it turns out that it may be more complicated than that, if she is not really capable of sustaining that kind of contact.  

I’m sure I wouldn’t be, either, in the long run… But I do remember that even when I was married, my ex-wife left the house at an ungodly hour, and we would always talk on my 45 minute ride to work. I think it was pretty much every day. Same with my daughter. When she stayed at her mothers, her mother would call me and let me speak to her every single morning. That’s just the way it was. So, from that perspective, I don’t think it’s that unusual that two people would wanna say good morning to each other if they really care about each other, and that’s the perspective I’ve been taking… Same with our phone calls at night.

That’s what makes me scratch my head a bit about this radio silence from this weekend… It’s highly unusual. But you are right, I was worried about these kinds of gaps when I first was talking with her on dating apps. I don’t think there’s been this kind of gap since then, really. Maybe during the day, or so, but it always straightened itself out within about 12 hours.  This has been 24 hours (even 48 hours if you consider the brevity of Yesterdays correspondence), and I wouldn’t even care that much if it wasn’t proceeding a complicated weekend.

and I like the idea of giving her time to herself… I tried to do that on Tuesday night when she told me to call her, and I offered her to just talk with her in the morning because I knew she was exhausted. She accepted.  I was trying to offer her that space.  I hope she wasn’t thinking I was trying to be avoidant, but I suppose that’s possible.

I can only shake my head with how screwed up I feel right now.

[Whirling D]

28 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

"How important is it that I get 24 seven attention from this lady, given how decent and sweet I know she is in most other scenarios? She has the capacity to be awesome, but then again, so did my ex-wife. Look where that got me. I was incapable of sustaining that level of avoidance. It was doing the same thing to me then as this is now. As I say again, look where that got me."

I wouldn't label her as an avoidant. She has guests.  You've avoided confirming that you two will not be open to pursuing other people.  So perhaps one of the guests is interested in her and she wants to keep her options open and texting you when it's convenient also might not be totally private from her guests.  And/or she wants to -gasp- have a life and focus on her guests and put the darn phone away.  

My son and I hung out on the couch for a half hour or so yesterday reading our separate books -he has summer reading.  I am a bookworm. I heard my phone ping.  I not only didnt look at it -I shut off the ringer.  So I wouldn't be tempted at all.  A half hour or so -but I didn't care how long it ended up being.  He comes first and I won't be tethered to my phone and have to respond to non-emergency texts or calls at that time.  She is hosting guests -leave her be.

So, in your thoughts… Leave her be… Not even a simple text like, “hope you are enjoying your time up there with your friend… 🌺❤️“

Not even a little hello like that to tell her I’m thinking of her?

[rainbowsandroses]

17 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

I do use radio silence in quotes here because I personally believe that not talking for 24 hours should be okay, especially when someone lets you know ahead of time that they're going to be less communicative than usual. 

I thought he said it's been 48 hours, I could be wrong.  And of course it's the weekend so one has to wonder. 

If this were a long term established relationship, of course it would be different, but it's still new, less than 3 months.

But who knows, it's impossible to say one way or the other.

@Whirling Dwould you consider talking with her about what she envisions going forward?

On or about the 3-month mark is when things start to shift either for the better or worse.  Not sure what it is about that 3-month mark, but it's pretty common.

 

[bluecastle]

8 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I thought he said it's been 48 hours, I could be wrong.  And of course it's the weekend so one has to wonder. 

 

I think he said she texted him yesterday, though it lacked the effusiveness he was hoping for. 

[Whirling D]

26 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

People had to live in the moment when we didn’t have cellphones. Trying to live in the past causes depression because you can’t change it. Trying to live in the future causes anxiety because you can’t control it . 

Such a true statement, S. Thank you. I spend way too much time thinking about what might happen, and then, trying to compare it to what already has happened, which reinforces what might happen. It’s this endless circle that goes around in my head.
 

I’ve been revisiting this notion of going on medication. I don’t know where to go with it.
 

My daughter had this absolutely extreme meltdown on, I think Thursday. Just as she was starting to come out of it, I had this idea of suggesting that she takes her antianxiety med, and she thought it was a good idea. Within about a half an hour she was a different person. She might’ve been settling in anyway, but I asked her the next morning if she thought that the medicine made any difference, and she said she thought it had helped bring her down.

She literally had the devil inside of her for about an hour and a half that night… It morphed between bawling, her eyes out, and this persona that was like, “FU, I’m going to do exactly what I want and you can’t stop me because you guys are A holes”.  It was like a completely different person had inhabited her body.

That was exactly the same with the nurse practitioner lady I dated up until about two years ago. I loved that girl, and she could be the sweetest woman, and so giving and generous, but when somethings snapped in her head, it was like evil lightning bolt struck her. She became a completely different person. Not one that I knew, or even wanted to know. It was so sad.

That is a strong characteristic of borderline personality disorder, which is what the practitioners at my daughters mental health program back in March were saying she suffers. It’s not medically accepted to diagnose kids that are 15 with this disability, but that’s pretty much what they were saying. I think my former girlfriend was beyond a doubt a borderline. 

Just for reference, the term borderline takes its name from being borderline psychotic. When people that have this disability start to “Split“, they almost become psychotic, and their brains go into a mode that is almost trance like, and the symptoms are defensiveness, anger and almost a psychotic delusion. 

Anyway, that’s got nothing to do with the doctor lady. 

[Whirling D]

OK, so I guess my patience paid off… The doctor lady texted me… Said that her friend had left, and she was now able to chill for a bit. I feel a bit more relaxed now.
 

I sent her a short, silly reply, and she said she had a good time with her girlfriend yesterday, and they went out shopping in one of the tourist towns nearby… And then had some time for a girl talk… To which I replied… “Oh, I’m not sure I even want to know… 😂🤣”

I think I am leaning towards the notion that I am creating all this chaos in my own head. Do you think this is perhaps so?

[catfeeder]

Yep, the FB post is cringey but context means everything. If the guy didn’t want her to model beachwear at his firm’s gala and offered to buy her a ball gown to attend, that’s a different ball game.

If I asked my date to wear something other than his motorcycle jacket to my company party and offered the quick fix of a well fitting dinner jacket instead, would that be offensive or would it mean that I otherwise would enjoy having him attend with me?

Offense is in the head of the receiver when it’s not intended as an offense.

[Batya33]

47 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

So, in your thoughts… Leave her be… Not even a simple text like, “hope you are enjoying your time up there with your friend… 🌺❤️“

Not even a little hello like that to tell her I’m thinking of her?

She should know that already - she does know that -so -no need to pop up on her phone with a reminder.  By contrast I would do that when you know she is at her doctor appointment ,etc.

[catfeeder]

The best solution I’ve seen proposed for sharing finances is the 3 account method. His, Hers and Ours. The Ours account addresses the whole household budget including shared expenses, savings and investments. The total amount needed combines all of the above into a monthly total, and the percentage of contribution from each partner is negotiated based on income plus any voluntary additions from savings or other.

 This limits the co-mingling of funds to what is needed even while the leftover percentage is kept by each in their own private accounts. So this prevents a need for negotiation over individual spending or savings. Each can do what they wish with any money that falls outside of shared funds, and that info needn’t be disclosed.

[Whirling D]

12 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Yep, the FB post is cringey but context means everything. If the guy didn’t want her to model beachwear at his firm’s gala and offered to buy her a ball gown to attend, that’s a different ball game.

If I asked my date to wear something other than his motorcycle jacket to my company party and offered the quick fix of a well fitting dinner jacket instead, would that be offensive or would it mean that I otherwise would enjoy having him attend with me?

Offense is in the head of the receiver when it’s not intended as an offense.

I want to hear that and internalize it, but I’ve been judged by how I look, whether it be my hair, or my “tender” physical appearance, almost my entire life. If that’s almost never been positive, believe me.
 

So when I hear someone who claims to care about me, making comments about perhaps making her feel uncomfortable, at one of her professional environment, that makes me feel a bit triggered and uneasy… Almost a little bit offended. I’m trying hard not to feel that way, but I kind of do.

Part of the way I try to live my life is to try to let go of stuff that is detrimental in that way… I don’t always get it right, but I’m trying. I try to cut back on my thinking that whoever I’m dating is going to be any sort of reflection of me, one way or the other… And that person should be able to present and carry-on in which ever way they feel they want to live their life… And if I don’t like it, I have to either live with it, or find somebody else. I am just hoping in this case, she is not thinking I am rigid enough in my thinking that she would need to go find somebody else… I did try to tell her I would do whatever I can to make her feel comfortable in those settings, whatever that meant to her.

[rainbowsandroses]

This idea of changing someone to suit societal norms or impress your business colleagues is so foreign to me, I cannot relate. 

For the record, I would never ever suggest to my boyfriend he wear his hair differently or wear a different jacket, or worse buy him the jacket, to attend a company function or anything else. 

If I am embarrassed by him such that I would suggest such things, then I shouldn't be dating him, period end of. 

It's emasculating plain and simple and @Whirling DI totally get where you're coming from being put off by this. 

I mean what the heck.  You either accept someone as is, or don't date them.

That said I live in SoCal and have for many years where anything goes.

I used to work with a female attorney who was dating a truck driver/motorcycle junkie.

He looked and dressed the part too.  At holiday parties etc. 

No one batted an eyelash, it was obvious she/they were madly in love and that is all that mattered. 

No one gave a flying leap how he looked or dressed. 

 

[Whirling D]

5 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

The best solution I’ve seen proposed for sharing finances is the 3 account method. His, Hers and Ours. The Ours account addresses the whole household budget including shared expenses, savings and investments. The total amount needed combines all of the above into a monthly total, and the percentage of contribution from each partner is negotiated based on income plus any voluntary additions from savings or other.

 This limits the co-mingling of funds to what is needed even while the leftover percentage is kept by each in their own private accounts. So this prevents a need for negotiation over individual spending or savings. Each can do what they wish with any money that falls outside of shared funds, and that info needn’t be disclosed.

That’s exactly what I did when I was married, and it worked out fairly well. I didn’t have a lot of zeros in my own personal account, but every once in a while, my ex-wife would throw some extra cash my way, because she knew that eventually I could probably use it for something… Which I eventually did. As long as I had a little bit of coin in that account, I was usually OK. And when I say a little bit of coin, that mean only about $1000. That’s about what I felt I was financially worth at that time… But little did I know I probably could’ve had a lot more in that account, based on information I found later,  but I don’t really care about that anymore. 
 

As long as I know that a future partner is going to be willing to stretch a little bit if Something Happens, like my car blows up, or what have you, they can have all of my money, as long as all the bills are paid, and I get to buy a little something, maybe, once a year… And when I say a little something, maybe $1000 worth of musical equipment or something. Not extravagant by most standards. 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I want to hear that and internalize it, but I’ve been judged by how I look, whether it be my hair, or my “tender” physical appearance, almost my entire life. If that’s almost never been positive, believe me.
 

So when I hear someone who claims to care about me, making comments about perhaps making her feel uncomfortable, at one of her professional environment, that makes me feel a bit triggered and uneasy… Almost a little bit offended. I’m trying hard not to feel that way, but I kind of do.

Part of the way I try to live my life is to try to let go of stuff that is detrimental in that way… I don’t always get it right, but I’m trying. I try to cut back on my thinking that whoever I’m dating is going to be any sort of reflection of me, one way or the other… And that person should be able to present and carry-on in which ever way they feel they want to live their life… And if I don’t like it, I have to either live with it, or find somebody else. I am just hoping in this case, she is not thinking I am rigid enough in my thinking that she would need to go find somebody else… I did try to tell her I would do whatever I can to make her feel comfortable in those settings, whatever that meant to her.

Since you are extra sensitive and see comments about dress codes/appearance at professional events as offensive -if you do date someone who is a professional, a corporate executive or who goes to events with a dress code like certain wedding and parties make it clear from the beginning that you don't do dress code events.  That cuts off those comments at the pass. 

[Whirling D]

1 minute ago, rainbowsandroses said:

This idea of changing someone to suit societal norms or impress your business colleagues is so foreign to me, I cannot relate. 

For the record, I would never ever suggest to my boyfriend he wear his hair differently or wear a different jacket, and worse buy him the jacket, to attend a company function or anything else. 

If I am embarrassed by him such that I would suggest such things, then I shouldn't be dating him, period end of. 

It's emasculating plain and simple and @Whirling DI totally get where you're coming from being put off by this. 

I mean what the heck.  You either accept someone as is, or don't date them.

That said I live in SoCal and have for many years where anything goes.

I used to work with a female attorney who was dating a truck driver/motorcycle junkie.

He looked and dressed the part too.  At holiday parties etc. 

No one batted an eyelash, it was obvious she/they were madly in love and that is all that mattered. 

 

That’s such a nice invalidating post, rainbow, thank you.
 

Well, I pretty much agree, although I know if she invited me to one of her doctor events, I would probably be asking her what would make sense for me to dressing, just to make her comfortable… But to have it mandated by her feels a little controlling, which I think is what you said before, and which that Facebook posting was also saying.

If this topic comes up again, I’ll use the anecdote of asking her to dye her hair green if she ever comes to one of my gigs. :-)j

[Whirling D]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Since you are extra sensitive and see comments about dress codes/appearance at professional events as offensive -if you do date someone who is a professional, a corporate executive or who goes to events with a dress code like certain wedding and parties make it clear from the beginning that you don't do dress code events.  That cuts off those comments at the pass. 

If she told me, there was a dress code, so be it… It just feels a little insensitive and controlling for her to almost make it sound like it’s a mandate, only needed to make her feel less scrutinized. 
 

But you know what, we all have our needs, and our hangups. I’m trying not to make that big of a deal of it, but as you know, I probably will.

I need to learn to chill and shut up more. If I drank more coffee, I would probably feel less depressed on a regular basis… It’s when I don’t drink coffee that I start to go cold, turkey and get all weirded out. Like yesterday and this morning.

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

For the record, I would never ever suggest to my boyfriend he wear his hair differently or wear a different jacket, and worse buy him the jacket, to attend a company function or anything else. 

If I am embarrassed by him such that I would suggest such things, then I shouldn't be dating him, period end of. 

I would hope if I mentioned the dress code my SO would know on his own what to do to conform and/or wouldn't go (which would have been a problem sometimes since often having an SO with me was an asset to professional networking.  He should care about how he dressed for my professional event because that would be a reflection on me, understandably. 

My career always included sales and front facing interaction and business development.  The men I was seriously involved with were in similar environments or even nearly identical.  I always wanted to know what the dress code was and asked for input and if my SO had said "I don't think that dress would be appropriate" I'd try another one.  No biggie.  

I would have been embarrassed if an SO showed up and flouted the dress code at my event.  And angry too.  

[Whirling D]

Plus… I would enjoy going to white-collar events with her… I would be proud to see her in her environment and help her feel a sense of accomplishment for what she has done with her life. I would be proud of her and wouldn’t want to miss that.
 

Whether or not, I have long hair, shouldn’t have anything to do with that sense of pride that I would feel for her and convey to her, I’m sure.

She told me that it was likely part of a cultural bias that she grew up with, and I think that’s entirely true. I am a wacko, left-leaning kind of liberal, who grew up out in the woods in Canada…  and her family is apparently soft right wing urban conservative. Let’s see how that goes over… 🙂.   

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, Whirling D said:

If she told me, there was a dress code, so be it… It just feels a little insensitive and controlling for her to almost make it sound like it’s a mandate, only needed to make her feel less scrutinized. 
 

But you know what, we all have our needs, and our hangups. I’m trying not to make that big of a deal of it, but as you know, I probably will.

I need to learn to chill and shut up more. If I drank more coffee, I would probably feel less depressed on a regular basis… It’s when I don’t drink coffee that I start to go cold, turkey and get all weirded out. Like yesterday and this morning.

I think it's common sense if you want to maintain and grow your professional career.  I have been to many many professional events as my husband's spouse/SO and he to mine when I worked full time.  I went to many such events with other boyfriends.  Of course I wanted to conform, of course I wanted to be an asset to him at these events and the reverse was true.  It was not a hangup -it was part of the job especially if you wanted a promotion or to get more clients -I wanted both.  So did he at times in his career.  

You don't have to date someone who works in those environments and you don't have to go to the events.  She's really smart to make sure that if you were her guest you'd abide by the dress code.

[Whirling D]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I would hope if I mentioned the dress code my SO would know on his own what to do to conform and/or wouldn't go (which would have been a problem sometimes since often having an SO with me was an asset to professional networking.  He should care about how he dressed for my professional event because that would be a reflection on me, understandably. 

My career always included sales and front facing interaction and business development.  The men I was seriously involved with were in similar environments or even nearly identical.  I always wanted to know what the dress code was and asked for input and if my SO had said "I don't think that dress would be appropriate" I'd try another one.  No biggie.  

I would have been embarrassed if an SO showed up and flouted the dress code at my event.  And angry too.  

 I think that’s exactly what the doctor lady was getting at. I think she would feel embarrassed if I just went there and dressed exactly like I usually do.
 

But then, again… I would shake hands with everyone with a smile on my face, and be jovial and engaging… Would that make a difference?

Like rainbow was saying about the person that she knew who was with the motorcycle fellow… Do you really think that your business relationships would have changed one iota if you had come into one of these gatherings Arm in arm with a post hippynNeanderthal? I’d like to think people are smarter than that, but I guess I’m often wrong… 🙂 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Plus… I would enjoy going to white-collar events with her… I would be proud to see her in her environment and help her feel a sense of accomplishment for what she has done with her life. I would be proud of her and wouldn’t want to miss that.
 

Whether or not, I have long hair, shouldn’t have anything to do with that sense of pride that I would feel for her and convey to her, I’m sure.

She told me that it was likely part of a cultural bias that she grew up with, and I think that’s entirely true. I am a wacko, left-leaning kind of liberal, who grew up out in the woods in Canada…  and her family is apparently soft right wing urban conservative. Let’s see how that goes over… 🙂.   

I think these days especially long hair is fine if it's worn neatly.  Same for women although likely easier for a woman to wear it down as long as it's neat.  

I'm so glad you're proud of her and would want to attend.

[Whirling D]

1 minute ago, Batya33 said:

I think it's common sense if you want to maintain and grow your professional career.  I have been to many many professional events as my husband's spouse/SO and he to mine when I worked full time.  I went to many such events with other boyfriends.  Of course I wanted to conform, of course I wanted to be an asset to him at these events and the reverse was true.  It was not a hangup -it was part of the job especially if you wanted a promotion or to get more clients -I wanted both.  So did he at times in his career.  

You don't have to date someone who works in those environments and you don't have to go to the events.  She's really smart to make sure that if you were her guest you'd abide by the dress code.

I have to wonder… If perhaps that under values, the brightness of the people who you are encountering, and how perceptive they would be to judge people on things other than how they dressed or looked… But then, again, as I just mentioned, that may be a little bit naïve of me.
 

That’s why I never entered the business world. I just don’t know I could stomach that kind of bias.

[rainbowsandroses]

Oh and Whirling, the female attorney I spoke about in my post?

She and her truck driver/motorcycle junkie boyfriend got married two years ago, moved to Colorado and had a beautiful baby daughter last year. ❤️

Here in SoCal we don't have dress codes except for large formal galas and in that case he would know to wear a tux without me having to suggest it to him.

If he felt uncomfortable wearing the tux, he's free to not attend.  My BIL who also has long hair and a bit scruffy, very rarely attends formal weddings etc with my step-sister which is OK with her and everyone else. 

He's free to wear his hair however he likes, and here, again, long hair on men is quite the norm and acceptable whether worn in a "man bun" or down.

As long as it's clean!  😂

[Whirling D]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think these days especially long hair is fine if it's worn neatly.  Same for women although likely easier for a woman to wear it down as long as it's neat.  

I'm so glad you're proud of her and would want to attend.

Thanks. I would be proud of her and eager to attend. Maybe once in a while… 🙂
 

and I would do absolutely everything I could, including whatever she asked, to make her feel comfortable. Would I like it? Not even a little bit, but I would do it.

My thoughts on that have changed a little bit, I think. As I mentioned, I went to my dads funeral as the only participant with a suit and purple swirly tie. That could be, because I was up in rural Canada, where no one does that, so I probably wouldn’t have been scrutinized, regarding anything matching or making fashion sense. Nobody up there is likely to be fashion savvy… 🙂 

[Whirling D]

2 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Oh and Whirling, the female attorney I spoke about in my post?

She and her truck driver/motorcycle junkie boyfriend got married two years ago, moved to Colorado and had a beautiful baby daughter last year. ❤️

Here in SoCal we don't have dress codes except for large formal galas and in that case he would know to wear a tux without me having to suggest it to him.

He's free to wear his hair however he likes, and here, again, long hair on men is quite the norm and acceptable whether in a "man bun" or down.

Well, there is a feel-good story… I wonder if they had any of these kinds of conversations in the early days, and if he felt as annoyed by those conversations as I do… 🙂
 

I don’t know where this all came from in my head. Part of me thinks it’s a big FU to society… “Since I don’t have anything, I’m going to wear anything I want and keep my hair long, despite your objections…” I think that’s part of it. The other part of it is that I grow up a rock and roller, and that’s just how guys that I admire looked when I was younger. Still is.

If someone walked into a doctoror a lawyer, gala with a Benjamin Franklin, or George Washington wig on, would everybody freak out? Of course not, at least back in those days, that was considered the norm. It was distinguished. In the rock ‘n’ roll days, it was a right of passage to have long, frizzy hair. I always thought it was freaking cool! I wanted to be a rocker with my hair hanging in my face as a bit rebellious. Think Kurt Cobain. I thought he was the perfect rock ‘n’ roll stereotype… At least for nowadays… 🙂 

I also have this earthy Crunchy side of me that believes my hair was kind of meant to grow long, so why wouldn’t I want it to grow as long as it was meant, as long as it doesn’t get in the way? It’s all natural!

[Batya33]

5 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Thanks. I would be proud of her and eager to attend. Maybe once in a while… 🙂
 

and I would do absolutely everything I could, including whatever she asked, to make her feel comfortable. Would I like it? Not even a little bit, but I would do it.

My thoughts on that have changed a little bit, I think. As I mentioned, I went to my dads funeral as the only participant with a suit and purple swirly tie. That could be, because I was up in rural Canada, where no one does that, so I probably wouldn’t have been scrutinized, regarding anything matching or making fashion sense. Nobody up there is likely to be fashion savvy… 🙂 

That's a funeral.  Not a work event.  If you would do it without resentment then for sure -we all do things we don't want to do especially to please our partners -there's a point where it's not ok of course - and at your age you know what that line is, I'm sure.