My boyfriend watched a specific pornstar and I feel betrayed by that

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, hannarivers said:

Because I was stupid and compulsive, today I ate enough. 

You are right about that I should never ask him questions like this. But I did, and I was just curious how a "normally feeling" person would react if they knew their partner found someone sexy

I would say "yeah, she IS sexy". And then go on with my day.

However there's not a chance I would ever interrogate my husband like that. It's self defeating. 

[hannarivers]

2 hours ago, bluecastle said:

I think it's a given that our partners find people sexy. People in magazines, people on the streets, people at the office, whatever. This is just human. You know this as you're asking us this, I think. No doubt you have flipped through a magazine or watched a movie and seen a smoldering dude. 

In other words, you're asking these questions to create a trap. For yourself and for him. Not intentionally but subconsciously. You're in essence trying to do two things at once: soothe your insecurities and validate them. Thinking being: If he says someone has a good body then you are justified in being uneasy. Which is a false hypothesis, so both of you just end up feeling a touch crazy.  

He thinks she has a good body for the same reason you think Ryan Gosling has a good body or the same reason Ryan Gosling thinks this porn star has a good body. A good body is a good body is a good body. It's not special or rocket science.  

The way out of this for you, I sincerely think, is to start building a life for yourself that you are super into. Friends, hobbies, whatever, so long as it is building something in your life that has nothing to do with your own body. A pottery class. A weekend afternoon volunteering somewhere. An online course in metaphysics. Go to an open mic night for comedy. Read a book that has always interested you while intimidating you. Call an old friend—like today—and make plans for dinner. Start small, keep building, trust the process. 

This will not be an instant solution, but if you can feed the above you will find (a) it naturally gives you less time to dwell on the frou frou and (b) it naturally bolsters up little parts of your own self-esteem so even the frou frou, when dwelled on, is less neon bright. 

Personal example: I have a big life I take a lot of comfort in, a medley of friends, and hobbies that are deeply engrained in my day to day. I surf most days, for instance, and when I'm not surfing a part of my brain is always dreaming of surfing. That part of my brain really comes in handy when I'm feeling insecure with my girlfriend, whatever the reason, or when my own body is bumming me out.

It's like the part of me that dreams about surfing shoves out the part of me that's all "Why's she being distant?" or "Dang, the midsection isn't quite as taut as it was last summer." Also, while I would be profoundly devastated if my relationship ended, I already know what I would do: I would see friends, I would surf, I would engage in other things, and I would survive. And knowing that, ironically, allows me to be much more present in the relationship rather than fretting about it. 

Make sense? 

 

 

This is also a great summary, thank you. 

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, hannarivers said:

Lets say your husband did watch porn, and you asked him if a specific person was hot, and he answered yes, she had a nice bod, would you not be, hmm, disappointed? I know I asked the questions, but still. I mean, I also asked him to not lie. This is what I meant by process, my mind was not okay with hearing that, even though I am adult enough to know there would be no person on earth who only finds me attractive. 

Read the lyrics to CArly Simon's song we have no secrets.  

First -I would not have dated my husband if he watched porn with any regularity.  He has been to bachelor parties at strip clubs a few times in his life.  I'm sure he's watched porn in his life.  We watched sexy movies together although it's been years especially since we have a kid LOL.  I never ever asked him that question.  He never asked me.  It's a ridiculous question to ask because I assume he's not blind, I assume he'd see if someone was sexy looking and I do NOT need to know if he finds another woman sexy.  I don't want to know the answer and I don't NEED to know the answer and it would be really awful of me to ask him -he'd be put in a really awkward position and it would be really unfair to him.  

But having said that if he ogled other women, if he watched porn regularly, if he commented on women's private parts or objectified women I would not be with him the end.  I'd be repulsed if he behaved that way. 

Has he ever commented on a woman's looks -yes of course -I mean I'll even say -oh she looks great -and he'll agree -like that. Neither of us is focused on what people look like and neither of us enjoys talking about what people look like.  We love making fun of people's fashion choices -meaning on TV/movies (like the famous My Cousin Vinny scene with the velvet suit OMG) and he knows I'm not blind either.  But we have far far more interesting things to talk about.  And we have no interest in playing games like trying to get your partner to "admit" that he might notice another woman.  Why?

[hannarivers]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I would not have dated my husband if he watched porn with any regularity.

You said he probably did watch porn. And hed been to strip clubs. Then why is it bad that my boyfriend watched porn regularly? And also, you said that I should let him do his thing 

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

You said he probably did watch porn. And hed been to strip clubs. Then why is it bad that my boyfriend watched porn regularly? And also, you said that I should let him do his thing 

Big difference according to my personal standards for a partner.  He's 56 and I'm sure he's seen porn. In fact we watched some together many years ago and I remember his friend gave us porn videos as a gag gift which we watched a minute of lol then I threw them out. 

If my husband wanted to go to a strip club now I would not be ok with it. If he wanted to watch porn with me -like soft porn - I might -it depends.  If he wanted to watch porn regularly I would not be ok with it.  I am positive he would not -it's not his thing.

When there was a chance he might many years ago I was not ok with it.  I totally understood that he went a few times in his life for bachelor parties.  It was not his thing at all.  It still is not.  So he would say no and I wouldn't have to do a thing  I also went to Chippendales twice and a bachelor party where there was a stripper.  I was in my late teens/early 20s. I absolutely would not now.  Not because I am married because it seems ridiculous, boring and likely offensive to me.  

Yes let him do his thing 100%.  Do not be with him if you're incompatible.  If I was in your situation I would never date a person who watched porn regularly AND I would let him do his thing.  Without me as his partner.  I wouldn't lecture him or monitor him or require him to change if he prioritized watching porn regularly.  

I do not think it is bad that your boyfriend watches porn regularly.  It's not minors he is watching or kids and it's not an addiction.  It's totally fine.  And right now it makes the two of you incompatible for a long term serious relationship.  IMHO.

[hannarivers]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Big difference according to my personal standards for a partner.  He's 56 and I'm sure he's seen porn. In fact we watched some together many years ago and I remember his friend gave us porn videos as a gag gift which we watched a minute of lol then I threw them out. 

If my husband wanted to go to a strip club now I would not be ok with it. If he wanted to watch porn with me -like soft porn - I might -it depends.  If he wanted to watch porn regularly I would not be ok with it.  I am positive he would not -it's not his thing.

When there was a chance he might many years ago I was not ok with it.  I totally understood that he went a few times in his life for bachelor parties.  It was not his thing at all.  It still is not.  So he would say no and I wouldn't have to do a thing  I also went to Chippendales twice and a bachelor party where there was a stripper.  I was in my late teens/early 20s. I absolutely would not now.  Not because I am married because it seems ridiculous, boring and likely offensive to me.  

Yes let him do his thing 100%.  Do not be with him if you're incompatible.  If I was in your situation I would never date a person who watched porn regularly AND I would let him do his thing.  Without me as his partner.  I wouldn't lecture him or monitor him or require him to change if he prioritized watching porn regularly.  

I do not think it is bad that your boyfriend watches porn regularly.  It's not minors he is watching or kids and it's not an addiction.  It's totally fine.  And right now it makes the two of you incompatible for a long term serious relationship.  IMHO.

This is why I told him that if he really needs porn, we should break up, because I might be okay with it in a year or two, but I might not. He said he would be okay without it, he doesnt need it, he just thought he did. But he would rather be with me than choose this hobby. It is literally in my hands to decide if I want to move on and forgive/let go of the past. 

[boltnrun]

Why do you call it a "hobby"? Odd word choice.

However, you're right. If you want a man who never ever watches porn and never, ever has, this boyfriend of yours isn't the right one. 

[Batya33]

40 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

This is why I told him that if he really needs porn, we should break up, because I might be okay with it in a year or two, but I might not. He said he would be okay without it, he doesnt need it, he just thought he did. But he would rather be with me than choose this hobby. It is literally in my hands to decide if I want to move on and forgive/let go of the past. 

It’s not a hobby. A hobby is something you enjoy doing and with rare exception is enriching either intellectually or creatively or physically or all of above lol. Watching porn is passive even if the person interacts in some way - the interaction is with an illusion. It requires no effort and you don’t improve on a talent or skill. In fact it can decrease your talents and skills. And it takes time away from enriching activities. 

[hannarivers]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I dont know if the country matters, but where I live, porn is so accepted that I dont know one gI dont know if the country matters, but where I live, porn is so accepted that I dont know one guy who never watched, and there is only few women who never did. Watching porn is so not taboo, that when you say you dont like porn, they look at you like you are weird. This is why I said, Im not into going through dozens of men to find one who never liked porn. Ill be okay with meeting halfway, he does his thing, just not as often as he would do while being singleuy who never watched, and there is only few women who never did. Watching porn is so not taboo, that when you say you dont like porn, they look at you like you are weird. This is why I said, Im not into going through dozens of men to find one who never liked porn. Ill be okay with meeting halfway, he does his thing, just not as often as he would do while being single

I dont know if the country matters, but where I live, porn is so accepted that I dont know one gI dont know if the country matters, but where I live, porn is so accepted that I dont know one guy who never watched, and there is only few women who never did. Watching porn is so not taboo, that when you say you dont like porn, they look at you like you are weird. This is why I said, Im not into going through dozens of men to find one who never liked porn. Ill be okay with meeting halfway, he does his thing, just not as often as he would do while being singleuy who never watched, and there is only few women who never did. Watching porn is so not taboo, that when you say you dont like porn, they look at you like you are weird. This is why I said, Im not into going through dozens of men to find one who never liked porn. Ill be okay with meeting halfway, he does his thing, just not as often as he would do while being single

[boltnrun]

13 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

he does his thing, just not as often as he would do while being single

How would you know this other than interrogating him?

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, hannarivers said:

I dont know if the country matters, but where I live, porn is so accepted that I dont know one gI dont know if the country matters, but where I live, porn is so accepted that I dont know one guy who never watched, and there is only few women who never did. Watching porn is so not taboo, that when you say you dont like porn, they look at you like you are weird. This is why I said, Im not into going through dozens of men to find one who never liked porn. Ill be okay with meeting halfway, he does his thing, just not as often as he would do while being singleuy who never watched, and there is only few women who never did. Watching porn is so not taboo, that when you say you dont like porn, they look at you like you are weird. This is why I said, Im not into going through dozens of men to find one who never liked porn. Ill be okay with meeting halfway, he does his thing, just not as often as he would do while being single

That would mean nothing to me when it came to finding a serious partner for a romantic relationship. I wouldn't care what is taboo, what "people" do in that culture etc.  Porn should never be taboo - who ever wrote that on this thread.  That's silly.  I don't give a darn about other's judgments - I never tried an illegal drug, never had casual sex, and I don't dislike porn (some I do just like I dislike certain movies and books) it's just not my thing.  

I certainly would date someone who "likes" porn - I married someone who likes science fiction and I mostly don't.  It's the actions that matter.  What I wrote was I wouldn't have dated someone who regularly watched porn.  I would have been friends with that person unless he insisted I watch it with him or talked about it incessantly (boring!) but be in a serious romantic relationship?? Nope.  

Someone can like porn and not regularly watch it.  I used to love soap operas, for years watched them once a day for probably an hour.  But if I'd insisted on watching them 4 hours a day and it got in the way of work/cleaning etc that would be a problem.  

Where I live marijuana use is very accepted and for many getting drunk regularly is accepted. I do neither and I wouldn't have dated someone who still smoked pot (past in college etc was ok) or got drunk regularly even if it was "accepted" -that's not my standard for picking a long term romantic partner. For that I needed alignment in personal values and standards.  A person who did those things would have been incompatible with me for a relationship but perhaps not for a friendship or acquaintanceship.  Nope I wasn't going to settle for incompatibility because it was "accepted" to do those things.  

[Morello]

7 hours ago, Batya33 said:

It requires no effort and you don’t improve on a talent or skill. In fact it can decrease your talents and skills. 

Porn decreases talents and skills? 

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, hannarivers said:

 I told him that if he really needs porn, we should break up, because I might be okay with it in a year or two, but I might not. 

This sounds like an ultimatum and veiled threat. Definitely a means to control. If you are not sure you'll be ok with it, why not end it now? Can you afford to just walk away? Is it really about porn or a need to control everything to address your anxiety?

Unfortunately you seem to be going in circles. One minute acting like a happy 1950s housewife, the next giving him ultimatums, then the next obsessing over body image and starving yourself. 

With respect, you need to see a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health and ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support. 

Hopefully you have health insurance. If not perhaps look into an affordable plan or work that offers benefits.

[hannarivers]

8 hours ago, Batya33 said:

That would mean nothing to me when it came to finding a serious partner for a romantic relationship. I wouldn't care what is taboo, what "people" do in that culture etc.  Porn should never be taboo - who ever wrote that on this thread.  That's silly.  I don't give a darn about other's judgments - I never tried an illegal drug, never had casual sex, and I don't dislike porn (some I do just like I dislike certain movies and books) it's just not my thing.  

I certainly would date someone who "likes" porn - I married someone who likes science fiction and I mostly don't.  It's the actions that matter.  What I wrote was I wouldn't have dated someone who regularly watched porn.  I would have been friends with that person unless he insisted I watch it with him or talked about it incessantly (boring!) but be in a serious romantic relationship?? Nope.  

Someone can like porn and not regularly watch it.  I used to love soap operas, for years watched them once a day for probably an hour.  But if I'd insisted on watching them 4 hours a day and it got in the way of work/cleaning etc that would be a problem.  

Where I live marijuana use is very accepted and for many getting drunk regularly is accepted. I do neither and I wouldn't have dated someone who still smoked pot (past in college etc was ok) or got drunk regularly even if it was "accepted" -that's not my standard for picking a long term romantic partner. For that I needed alignment in personal values and standards.  A person who did those things would have been incompatible with me for a relationship but perhaps not for a friendship or acquaintanceship.  Nope I wasn't going to settle for incompatibility because it was "accepted" to do those things.  

Incompability is probably a too big word for THIS stage of our relationship. What I mean : If he told me in the beginning that he wants to watch porn, and I would have said that I am not cool with that, this woulda been an incompability - but, to be honest, my fear of him watching porn grew in the years when he lied about it and I felt that something was off, so if he told me in the first place, I would have probably gotten used to it and not care about it, because it happened in front of my eyes. Consequences made it worse. And why incompability is not the perfect word now : he already made the mistake by lying and breaking my boundary, and in the now he is trying to fix it by changing his habits, so he can be compatible with me. Incompability is something that occures when two people cant compromise. If he can say "Im okay without it" and I can say "Okay, I can agree on you watching this category 1-3 times a month", then we are good to go, because we found a halfway. 

I dont know what regularity means for you, Im sure he was watching way less porn since he started working and living together with me. In the first year, when we didnt live together, it was probably 1-3 times a week, then we moved together and he said it was about once a week, but rather 4-5 times a month. Which means he did it with me 1-4 times a week and did himself once a week, maximum twice. 

Im pretty sure that this thing escalated like a flood - he lied, which made it seem like a much more bigger thing. I feel like if I knew about it, now I would be fine. I think someone asked how I know if he doesnt do it - I cant surely know, I can just trust. If he does break it, then it is not about me, it is about him being way more sexual than I can handle alone. Not to be naive, but I do trust him, as I said, he seems much more mature. And also, when we started dating, he did actually stop watching porn for months for me, just didnt stop it completely. So Im sure that right now he ain't doing it. 

 

[hannarivers]

8 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

Incompability is probably a too big word for THIS stage of our relationship. What I mean : If he told me in the beginning that he wants to watch porn, and I would have said that I am not cool with that, this woulda been an incompability - but, to be honest, my fear of him watching porn grew in the years when he lied about it and I felt that something was off, so if he told me in the first place, I would have probably gotten used to it and not care about it, because it happened in front of my eyes. Consequences made it worse. And why incompability is not the perfect word now : he already made the mistake by lying and breaking my boundary, and in the now he is trying to fix it by changing his habits, so he can be compatible with me. Incompability is something that occures when two people cant compromise. If he can say "Im okay without it" and I can say "Okay, I can agree on you watching this category 1-3 times a month", then we are good to go, because we found a halfway. 

I dont know what regularity means for you, Im sure he was watching way less porn since he started working and living together with me. In the first year, when we didnt live together, it was probably 1-3 times a week, then we moved together and he said it was about once a week, but rather 4-5 times a month. Which means he did it with me 1-4 times a week and did himself once a week, maximum twice. 

Im pretty sure that this thing escalated like a flood - he lied, which made it seem like a much more bigger thing. I feel like if I knew about it, now I would be fine. I think someone asked how I know if he doesnt do it - I cant surely know, I can just trust. If he does break it, then it is not about me, it is about him being way more sexual than I can handle alone. Not to be naive, but I do trust him, as I said, he seems much more mature. And also, when we started dating, he did actually stop watching porn for months for me, just didnt stop it completely. So Im sure that right now he ain't doing it. 

 

 

9 hours ago, Batya33 said:

That would mean nothing to me when it came to finding a serious partner for a romantic relationship. I wouldn't care what is taboo, what "people" do in that culture etc.  Porn should never be taboo - who ever wrote that on this thread.  That's silly.  I don't give a darn about other's judgments - I never tried an illegal drug, never had casual sex, and I don't dislike porn (some I do just like I dislike certain movies and books) it's just not my thing.  

I certainly would date someone who "likes" porn - I married someone who likes science fiction and I mostly don't.  It's the actions that matter.  What I wrote was I wouldn't have dated someone who regularly watched porn.  I would have been friends with that person unless he insisted I watch it with him or talked about it incessantly (boring!) but be in a serious romantic relationship?? Nope.  

Someone can like porn and not regularly watch it.  I used to love soap operas, for years watched them once a day for probably an hour.  But if I'd insisted on watching them 4 hours a day and it got in the way of work/cleaning etc that would be a problem.  

Where I live marijuana use is very accepted and for many getting drunk regularly is accepted. I do neither and I wouldn't have dated someone who still smoked pot (past in college etc was ok) or got drunk regularly even if it was "accepted" -that's not my standard for picking a long term romantic partner. For that I needed alignment in personal values and standards.  A person who did those things would have been incompatible with me for a relationship but perhaps not for a friendship or acquaintanceship.  Nope I wasn't going to settle for incompatibility because it was "accepted" to do those things.  

I wanted to add this. Im sure it was not in his mine that the actual action of masturbating to porn is cheating. If he felt like it was, he wouldnt have done it. When a random girl texts him, he doesnt even reply, and he doesnt watch women on the street when I am with him. What I mean by this is that he watches his actions, not just mindlessly goes around, drooling over women. Probably, in his brain, porn is not reality, this is why he feels okay with watching "pixel b1tches" and not okay with watching real woman in real time. I do understand him in that aspect. I made it feel like it was a crime, so he hid it, lied willfully when I asked about porn many times, and by me asking and him lying, it became a bigger crime. 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, hannarivers said:

 

I wanted to add this. Im sure it was not in his mine that the actual action of masturbating to porn is cheating. If he felt like it was, he wouldnt have done it. When a random girl texts him, he doesnt even reply, and he doesnt watch women on the street when I am with him. What I mean by this is that he watches his actions, not just mindlessly goes around, drooling over women. Probably, in his brain, porn is not reality, this is why he feels okay with watching "pixel b1tches" and not okay with watching real woman in real time. I do understand him in that aspect. I made it feel like it was a crime, so he hid it, lied willfully when I asked about porn many times, and by me asking and him lying, it became a bigger crime. 

I don't think viewing porn is cheating. I don't need to think it is cheating to know that I wouldn't be with someone in a long term romantic relationship who regularly watched porn.  I wouldn't care if the person viewed it as reality/fantasy/some mishmash.  My role would not be scientist/filmmaker/therapist/parent/friend -my only role would be whether that person and I would have compatible values and standards. 

I knew and know that if someone regularly watched porn we would not have compatible values and standards and I would leave the why and the analysis and all of that stuff to trained professionals that person could seek out if that person wanted to but it would have nothing to do with our not being compatible for a romantic relationship. 

Many people are fine with porn, many people love porn as part of their relationship, many people I am sure consider it cheating.  To me personally if someone gets a lap dance from a stripper that is cheating.  To others it is not. 

But again the crucial part for me -personally -is I have to stick to my personal standards and values. Others have the standard "if it's not adultery I'm ok with it" or "all she did was sleep in the same hotel room with her male boss but separate beds and he was passed out drunk so it's ok with me -it's not cheating or a betrayal."

One of my friends told me to marry a man I was not sure I was that into, so I could get pregnant before time ran out then divorce him.  OK cool -that's her standard. Not mine.

You keep bringing up external opinions, society, culture - stick to your own personal standards -don't waver unless you truly realize your values and standards are no longer really yours.  But that rarely happens.  I'm just sharing what I do.  

[hannarivers]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I don't think viewing porn is cheating. I don't need to think it is cheating to know that I wouldn't be with someone in a long term romantic relationship who regularly watched porn.  I wouldn't care if the person viewed it as reality/fantasy/some mishmash.  My role would not be scientist/filmmaker/therapist/parent/friend -my only role would be whether that person and I would have compatible values and standards. 

I knew and know that if someone regularly watched porn we would not have compatible values and standards and I would leave the why and the analysis and all of that stuff to trained professionals that person could seek out if that person wanted to but it would have nothing to do with our not being compatible for a romantic relationship. 

Many people are fine with porn, many people love porn as part of their relationship, many people I am sure consider it cheating.  To me personally if someone gets a lap dance from a stripper that is cheating.  To others it is not. 

But again the crucial part for me -personally -is I have to stick to my personal standards and values. Others have the standard "if it's not adultery I'm ok with it" or "all she did was sleep in the same hotel room with her male boss but separate beds and he was passed out drunk so it's ok with me -it's not cheating or a betrayal."

One of my friends told me to marry a man I was not sure I was that into, so I could get pregnant before time ran out then divorce him.  OK cool -that's her standard. Not mine.

You keep bringing up external opinions, society, culture - stick to your own personal standards -don't waver unless you truly realize your values and standards are no longer really yours.  But that rarely happens.  I'm just sharing what I do.  

You see, my problem is that I also watched porn regularly before. So I cant say I was a Saint either. I just never watched it for the visuals, this way I thought of myself more lightheartedly. I just liked scenarios and situations, never in my life have I found someone attractive in porn or chose by appearance. 

And the deal is, I love him too much to not find a solution. Imagine that you found out something about your husband that is this hurful for you. Would you not find a solution to fix your relationship, rather than zhrow away a person you treasure so much? 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, hannarivers said:

You see, my problem is that I also watched porn regularly before. So I cant say I was a Saint either. I just never watched it for the visuals, this way I thought of myself more lightheartedly. I just liked scenarios and situations, never in my life have I found someone attractive in porn or chose by appearance. 

And the deal is, I love him too much to not find a solution. Imagine that you found out something about your husband that is this hurful for you. Would you not find a solution to fix your relationship, rather than zhrow away a person you treasure so much? 

Why is this about sainthood and not just simply about your values and standards? And what's with the cherry picking of "well you know I just watched it for ___ not ___."  Please.  

Sometimes love is not enough and sometimes the solution is to separate.  It would depend what I found out about my husband as far as what I would do. I can think of various scenarios where we might have to separate. For example my friend and her husband separated because he cheated, had a gambling addiction and drained their children's college account.  She cheated too.  I almost married a man who was gay.  Had I learned after that he was we likely would have divorced.  Fortunately I declined his proposal and he's been married to a man for many years.  He was in denial when he proposed.

My other friend has remained legally married to her husband who regularly watches porn/might have a porn addiction. I don't know exactly how they manage the last number of years but I know back then she decided to stay married.  They have two kids.

Someone can be a treasure and not a treasure for a particular person for a romantic relationship.  As I said your boyfriend would do well with a woman who also was into viewing porn and saw his choices as a plus or at least neutral.  You do not.

You knew about his porn viewing before you dated him or soon after, yes?

And it's different -we are married and we have a child.  So whatever it is -I'd factor in what we are to each other and our son and the interests of our family.  I am not telling you to throw away a treasure.  I am telling you not to be with a boyfriend where basic values are incompatible.

 

[Batya33]

I will give you an example where I would have "thrown away a treasure" as you put it -but I wouldn't.  If I were serious with a man or even married and our agreement had been to try to conceive a child and also if he'd agreed to adopt/do IVF etc if I couldn't -and then he went back on his promise I'd have ended the relationship.  I have a friend who stayed in a marriage -at least as far as I know- she froze her eggs in her late 30s, shortly after met her future husband -he was all in re having kids and after marriage changed his mind. 

Last I knew she was approaching 50 and was still married to him.  She so so so wanted to be a mother.  My heart breaks for her.  He is a very good man and I would have been 100% supportive if she left him.  She confided in me a lot.  It was not my place to advise her so I said nothing. 

My husband and I also reconnected in our late 30s and discussed family planning as one of our goals in the future -this was a given, this was set in stone.  Had he gone back on this I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be together.

[hannarivers]

5 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Why is this about sainthood and not just simply about your values and standards? And what's with the cherry picking of "well you know I just watched it for ___ not ___."  Please.  

Sometimes love is not enough and sometimes the solution is to separate.  It would depend what I found out about my husband as far as what I would do. I can think of various scenarios where we might have to separate. For example my friend and her husband separated because he cheated, had a gambling addiction and drained their children's college account.  She cheated too.  I almost married a man who was gay.  Had I learned after that he was we likely would have divorced.  Fortunately I declined his proposal and he's been married to a man for many years.  He was in denial when he proposed.

My other friend has remained legally married to her husband who regularly watches porn/might have a porn addiction. I don't know exactly how they manage the last number of years but I know back then she decided to stay married.  They have two kids.

Someone can be a treasure and not a treasure for a particular person for a romantic relationship.  As I said your boyfriend would do well with a woman who also was into viewing porn and saw his choices as a plus or at least neutral.  You do not.

You knew about his porn viewing before you dated him or soon after, yes?

And it's different -we are married and we have a child.  So whatever it is -I'd factor in what we are to each other and our son and the interests of our family.  I am not telling you to throw away a treasure.  I am telling you not to be with a boyfriend where basic values are incompatible.

 

Im willing to be childish and say - But I want to be with him! I want to morph my values into something that is good for both of us. If he is willing to show me faithfulness to my pain by not doing it for a bit, then I might come up with a version that is good for him and me. I completely get what you say, I just dont want to let a person go whom I find trustful (well, not in this, but in more serious things), loyal, lovable, kind, caring. He can make me happy. 

Im pretty sure he wasnt an addict. An addict couldnt just decide and go almost 4 months without his addicting item, and be fully okay, without withdrawal symptoms. I think he just had a feeling about porn like I had about series, why not watch it every day. I could have stopped, just why. 

[hannarivers]

8 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I will give you an example where I would have "thrown away a treasure" as you put it -but I wouldn't.  If I were serious with a man or even married and our agreement had been to try to conceive a child and also if he'd agreed to adopt/do IVF etc if I couldn't -and then he went back on his promise I'd have ended the relationship.  I have a friend who stayed in a marriage -at least as far as I know- she froze her eggs in her late 30s, shortly after met her future husband -he was all in re having kids and after marriage changed his mind. 

Last I knew she was approaching 50 and was still married to him.  She so so so wanted to be a mother.  My heart breaks for her.  He is a very good man and I would have been 100% supportive if she left him.  She confided in me a lot.  It was not my place to advise her so I said nothing. 

My husband and I also reconnected in our late 30s and discussed family planning as one of our goals in the future -this was a given, this was set in stone.  Had he gone back on this I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be together.

Children are definitely a bigger issue than porn. I dont want to be a person who is so butthurt about porn, that I would break up with a good man. Yes, he was a liar. But I was an @sshole in other aspects. Like I said, I was agressive because of the things I endured in middle school. But I changed. I wanted to, so I did. And I think he loves me enough to change, and he is self aware (now, finally) enough to want to grow. Porn is like alcholol. Two people can date if one likes to drink and the other doesnt. I really really want to feel better about porn, so we both can be happy

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

Children are definitely a bigger issue than porn. I dont want to be a person who is so butthurt about porn, that I would break up with a good man. Yes, he was a liar. But I was an @sshole in other aspects. Like I said, I was agressive because of the things I endured in middle school. But I changed. I wanted to, so I did. And I think he loves me enough to change, and he is self aware (now, finally) enough to want to grow. Porn is like alcholol. Two people can date if one likes to drink and the other doesnt. I really really want to feel better about porn, so we both can be happy

To me it’s not. I wouldn’t be with someone who got drunk regularly. I think I wrote that above. To me personally someone who watches porn regularly has very different values than me about sex and women’s bodies. and those are also relevant to raising a family. My son is taking sex Ed at school right now. Starting about 6 years ago he and I read two age appropriate books on sex Ed. It’s essential to me that my husband and I have similar values about sex and women’s bodies so that as our son gets older and as he starts to date etc we can be role models for him on the same wavelength.  

I find that people who are that into porn have different perspectives on women and sexual activity than I do. Which is fine except not fine in a serious romantic relationship.  
Being that into porn impacts general views and perspectives in the way that occasionally watching a racy movie or video or play does not. 

you certainly are adept at coming up with apples and oranges comparisons.  Look you do you.

Realistically unless your boyfriend is highly motivated to stop watching and highly motivated for his own reasons and not just to please you then know that he’s likely to resume being an avid porn watcher as soon as life gets hard. In my experience that happens fairly often. By contrast if he’s committed to changing for himself because he realizes the downsides of this much porn then of course people can change. 

[hannarivers]

31 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

To me it’s not. I wouldn’t be with someone who got drunk regularly. I think I wrote that above. To me personally someone who watches porn regularly has very different values than me about sex and women’s bodies. and those are also relevant to raising a family. My son is taking sex Ed at school right now. Starting about 6 years ago he and I read two age appropriate books on sex Ed. It’s essential to me that my husband and I have similar values about sex and women’s bodies so that as our son gets older and as he starts to date etc we can be role models for him on the same wavelength.  

I find that people who are that into porn have different perspectives on women and sexual activity than I do. Which is fine except not fine in a serious romantic relationship.  
Being that into porn impacts general views and perspectives in the way that occasionally watching a racy movie or video or play does not. 

you certainly are adept at coming up with apples and oranges comparisons.  Look you do you.

Realistically unless your boyfriend is highly motivated to stop watching and highly motivated for his own reasons and not just to please you then know that he’s likely to resume being an avid porn watcher as soon as life gets hard. In my experience that happens fairly often. By contrast if he’s committed to changing for himself because he realizes the downsides of this much porn then of course people can change. 

I think I understand what you mean about views and stuff. And good for you that you think like that. 

But as long as my partner treats real bodies (mine, to be more specific), and sees porn as an aid/tool, Im kinda okay. Those women chose to act like objects, be treated like objects. I also view them as they act. My boyfriend never treated me as an object, after sex, he comes to hug me, kiss me and look me in the eyes like Im his life. 

I think you see it the right way, but most people just see porn as they see a movie, not real, just an illusion, fantasy, pixels. Those personas are not real, therefore people cant see them as real people. If a sailor chooses to be a sailor, lets treat him like he is one. If someone feels like they wanna be a hooker, and they wanna be jerked off on, then that is how people view them. 

I agree that this is messed up, but in my opinion, movies in general are messed up. They entertain us to such levels, we can sit still and look at a screen for 2 hours, doing nothing. I think we have to separate fiction from reality. If a man watches porn and sees it as a tool, but treats women with gentle kindness and caring attention, it is fine

"This much porn". Once a week is not the end of the world, when I did watch porn, I did it 1-4 times a week and now I dont even care about it. If he goes back to it, he wont be doing it more frequently, Im sure of that. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, hannarivers said:

But as long as my partner treats real bodies (mine, to be more specific), and sees porn as an aid/tool, Im kinda okay. Those women chose to act like objects, be treated like objects. I also view them as they act.

How do you know this? You are familiar with how certain girls and women are forced/pressured into  doing this sort of thing, yes?

Yes as long as your values about porn align with your boyfriend's you are totally fine!  You also expressed your views on movies etc and these are your opinions to which you are entitled. I just mean stick to your values and don't rationalize them away or settle for a person with incompatible values and lie to yourself.

To me personally it's a range - so if a person was regularly viewing porn the chances of him treating women (or men) like objects generally are far greater than if he or she occasionally views it or watches movies that contain sex scenes etc.  IMHO.

[hannarivers]

48 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

How do you know this? You are familiar with how certain girls and women are forced/pressured into  doing this sort of thing, yes?

Yes as long as your values about porn align with your boyfriend's you are totally fine!  You also expressed your views on movies etc and these are your opinions to which you are entitled. I just mean stick to your values and don't rationalize them away or settle for a person with incompatible values and lie to yourself.

To me personally it's a range - so if a person was regularly viewing porn the chances of him treating women (or men) like objects generally are far greater than if he or she occasionally views it or watches movies that contain sex scenes etc.  IMHO.

But am I stupid for thinking that we will mature and grow? 23-24 is so young, I learnt so much by his side, and I am already wiser than I was a year ago. I saw him grow in these years, I saw myself too, and I hope for more