Mess - yes I made it

[Wiseman2]

7 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

 , I have a life long medical condition and that feels like a full time job in itself sometimes. …. I am doing my best and I seriously have had very dark thoughts about taking my own life - 

Please see a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Get some tests done. Discuss both physical and psychological symptoms. Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support.

Whether or not you can date or stay friends with your wife is less important than getting help right now for your physical and mental despair.

[Ade72]

Thank you, things are easier since I took the step to move out and start to face the situation that I have created. Those thoughts and feelings of hurting myself have gone and I have friends that I have promised I would speak to if I ever felt that way again. Physical health wise I am good, my condition means I need to make sure I am that way, eating correctly etc and taking medication. 
 

Most people that know me, wouldn’t know what I am dealing with on a daily basis, I know this can be true of most people - as humans we put on a front and say we are “fine” when asked how we are. So please don’t think I am suggesting I am anything special, it doesn’t however mean my feelings are any less valid.

 

 

 

[Kwothe28]

I am sorry, but you are both a huge messes. You separated 6 months ago, in what, December? So naturally you immediatelly started dating in January. See how huge mess that is by itself? She also hoped on a dating site for a "D carousel" after divorce. And was even dating your colleague? That is so much toxicity by itself that it could confidently fill in a book. You are 50. And you are both acting like a 17 year olds. Its commendable that you didnt cheated. But leaving your wife of 17 years so you could date somebody else isnt really a positive thing to do. You are not a teenager, you are a 50 year old man. I am not saying that you should have stayed in marriage if it didnt work and you didnt feel for her. But you basically left so you could date somebody else. That is messed up by itself. Same with vacation. If you are separated and dating other people there is no vacation to be have. You made your own choices. Learn to live with them.

[Ade72]

7 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

And was even dating your colleague?

Hey no, I don’t know where you got that but from ☹️

[MissCanuck]

1 hour ago, Ade72 said:

Surely people can split amicably?

Yes, definitely. 

1 hour ago, Ade72 said:

Not sure I can just not have her in my life at all

You don't really get a say in that, though. It's going to be up to her whether she wants you to remain in her life. You can't do much but respect her choice, whatever that may be. 

1 hour ago, Ade72 said:

we have kids together

And this will be up to the kids.  It would hurt a lot if they distance themseleves, I realize, but as adults it's their choice to set whatever boundary they feel comfortable with. They might well want you to stay in their lives, or it might mean you drop way down on their list of priorities and people in their immediate circle. 

Whatever happens, obviously you have changed the goalposts here in a major way. You can state what sort of relationship you would like to have with them moving forward and actively work towards that, but that's all you can do. The rest is up to them. 

[Ade72]

8 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Its commendable that you didnt cheated. But leaving your wife of 17 years so you could date somebody else isnt really a positive thing to do

Also I left because I didn’t feel things could be fixed, I dated somebody else to try and fill the void as I have never been on my own.

[Kwothe28]

5 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

Hey no, I don’t know where you got that but from ☹️

Ah I meant you said "the guy from company"

22 hours ago, Ade72 said:

I have dated a few ladies, and my wife joined a site (i know as i saw her on there, awkward) and she went out with a guy for company, nothing romantic apparently.

 

My bad. 

[Ade72]

3 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

You don't really get a say in that, though. It's going to be up to her whether she wants you to remain in her life. You can't do much but respect her choice, whatever that may be. 

Totally, I am sitting at work here now - she is off work and I am intentionally stopping myself messaging her - she was out on a work outing last night and I woke to a text saying she was drunk and she said goodnight. I totally get it’s down to her as to how the friendship pans out.

with the kids, it seems that I will get out what I put in, I message them every other day and I am taking my grandson fishing towards the end of the month, things are looking quite positive there thankfully

[MissCanuck]

16 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

with the kids, it seems that I will get out what I put in, I message them every other day and I am taking my grandson fishing towards the end of the month, things are looking quite positive there thankfully

That's great. It sounds like you have a good relationship with them and that they are open to keeping it that way. The initial hurt was probably hard for them to deal with too, but it seems they want to rebuild. 

[Batya33]

34 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

Also I left because I didn’t feel things could be fixed, I dated somebody else to try and fill the void as I have never been on my own.

So that's ok -to use someone else to fill the void because you've never been on your own (which is not true obviously and even if so welcome to being an adult)-but it's not ok with you if your wife's children decide that they'd rather not deal with the downsides of you staying involved with them and their children and you find the decision arbitrary or unfair.  

I totally get that family is not all about blood.  In this situation it's kind of important -not that you would want to "force" a relationship just because you had the right to do so - but at least then reasonable people might see they would have to put strong emotions aside in favor of doing what was right.  

[Ade72]

1 minute ago, Batya33 said:

which is not true obviously and even if so welcome to being an adult)

Hey I appreciate any feedback but it is true, and do you need to be so caustic? No I am not suggesting it’s ok, I was explaining that was how I tried to cope with the situation, not suggesting it was “right” - just explaining the actions I took at the time 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

Hey I appreciate any feedback but it is true, and do you need to be so caustic? No I am not suggesting it’s ok, I was explaining that was how I tried to cope with the situation, not suggesting it was “right” - just explaining the actions I took at the time 

Because I find your attitude towards what is best as to how to treat the people you love and care for all these years kind of cold and self-absorbed.  And you have very strong ideas about what you think is "right" as far as your access to your wife and the stepkids/stepgrandchildren.  I don't think I was caustic - I am surprised to see an adult rationalizing in this way as far as hurting/potentially hurting others.  (I am 56 by the way, married over 10 years with a teenager).  

I understand you don't think it's right to use people - and yes you dated an adult woman who could have decided not to date -hopefully she is not married or separated - but if so then I wouldn't judge what your wife's family does as far as  your access -especially to children who didn't ask for this situation.

[Ade72]

12 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Because I find your attitude towards what is best as to how to treat the people you love and care for all these years kind of cold and self-absorbed

Ok abrasive rather than caustic, I hear you but the last thing I am is cold or self-absorbed. I hear what you are saying but I can’t agree with it. I am just trying to navigate through a difficult situation for my family but also for me 

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

Ok abrasive rather than caustic, I hear you but the last thing I am is cold or self-absorbed. I hear what you are saying but I can’t agree with it. I am just trying to navigate through a difficult situation for my family but also for me 

I don't think you are a cold or self-absorbed person. I think your reactions to the idea that your wife and the kids/grandkids can absolutely and validly tell you they don't want you around right now/for a long time/need to severely limit your access to these kids -as unfair to you because they are your kids etc comes across as entitled and self absorbed.  I think it's self-absorbed to use a person to fill a void after you decide to separate from your wife.  

Don't "try" to navigate - I would take actions. I would navigate by swallowing a huge dose of humility -and once you do I would navigate by stepping aside.  Make your interest in involvement going forward known and respectfully defer to all of them as to what that should be and when.  Acknowledge you have no entitlement to any access and that even if it would be good for the kids from your vantage point they get the total say.  I would navigate by dating no one until a year after the divorce is final so you can get your own stuff in order from a practical and emotional standpoint.

Trying is not doing.  And you know this -you chose to stop "trying" to work on your marriage /reinvigorate the spark and instead what you "did" was separate from your wife and date someone else to fill a void. So since you know the difference these are my suggestions as to what you should do to navigate.

[Ade72]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I don't think you are a cold or self-absorbed person. I think your reactions to the idea that your wife and the kids/grandkids can absolutely and validly tell you they don't want you around right now/for a long time/need to severely limit your access to these kids

This is inaccurate, my ex initiates contact with me, and asks me to work overtime at her warehouse as they need experienced staff. None of this is me instigating it. The kids were more guarded to begin with (understandably) but now we are in regular contact via messages and I have seen them several times, I am also taking my eldest grandson fishing at the end of the month.

[Batya33]

27 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

This is inaccurate, my ex initiates contact with me, and asks me to work overtime at her warehouse as they need experienced staff. None of this is me instigating it. The kids were more guarded to begin with (understandably) but now we are in regular contact via messages and I have seen them several times, I am also taking my eldest grandson fishing at the end of the month.

Yes I mean go out of your way to give her space despite that -read what I wrote above when I gave that to an ex.  

My son really wants to take up fishing!! He tried it once a few months ago on his first ever overnight trip away. I love that you are taking him fishing. I never said you should give the kids space -only as far as letting her kids initiate as far as your access to their kids and respect it if they say no.  For these purposes right now -they are not your kids. They are not your grandkids.  From their perspective this may be true once you chose to separate from their mother.  Their perspective takes priority especially when it comes to access to their kids.  Or they may see it as the same -but again it's their call totally.  

[Ade72]

21 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

For these purposes right now -they are not your kids. They are not your grandkid

Hey thank you, I am unsure by what you mean here. I am not being awkward, just unsure how you mean they are not mine - is this because they are not biologically mine? Surely the split from their mother doesn’t mean I can see myself as not their father/grandfather 

yes my eldest grandson is almost 6 and he loves fishing, well he has only been once and that was with me and he caught some lovely fish and I have such lovely memories of that time with him 

[SooSad33]

7 hours ago, Ade72 said:

ALL of the replies on here are amazing and incredibly insightful for me. Many have struck a chord in so many ways. Yes maybe I have entered dating too soon, I have never lived alone, yes I room with work mates but we live alone and due to shifts we are alone on our off days (they work opposite shift pattern to me).

I do need to get used to who I am, I am a very deep thinker, I have a life long medical condition and that feels like a full time job in itself sometimes. I am my own worst critic, so hard on myself it is unreal. My wife (ex) even says give yourself a break, what’s done is done…..
She also says “I don’t know why you are so hard on yourself” - I just say that I know that what I have done is hard for those around me and that I hate having hurt people.

 

Yup, it's normal, we're our own worst critics 😉 .. But we can't please everyone! Remember that.

As for your mental health, can you not get referred by your friend - or reach out to your doctor?  You can seek some therapy and you can try med's to help with things like depression, anxiety etc.

I get it, I really do.  Having something like this ( long term) to have to come to an end will hurt, of course.  Now that it's happened, you're coming to 'feel it'.  Many people do BU, yes, and it's not so simple.. is it?  😕 .  ( Look up the levels of grief) .  If either of you or both are experiencing this, then you DO need some down time to work through this and time to heal, accept etc, before running into a new relationship.  (feel and deal) .  Give yourself time in this.

Hey, relationships fail all the time and I get it, which is why I highly suggest YOU take this down time, on your own to work through the turmoil.  Even when my own marriage failed, I did not get involved for another 2 yrs.  Why? Because I knew I wasn't ready yet ( Even though I was the one walkin away ... even though I was the one who was 'done'. -- didn't mean I was cold hearted. It didn't mean I didn't also hurt ... It was someone I married & had kids with .. it was someone I spent almost 10 yrs with) . So, no... Feelings don't just go away.

We need to work through it all.  We need to feel 'okay' again. Otherwise, yes, it could end up being a rebound, where you pull someone in for your own benefit, but your mind is still 'stuck' on the last one. And if that fails miserably, then you end up feeling worse, cause you feel like crap hurting them and yourself, again!

So, I think you get where I'm coming from .. You're just not ready, right? Especially if you feel so much negative atm, mentally 😕 .  Also, maybe now, you can consider learning more abt yourself... get out there & try more, diff things.  A hobby, sport, etc.  I do lots on my own now.  I'm alone but not lonely 🙂 

Also think on this trip you guys had planned.  Is it really the best thing to do now?  You are apart, no longer together.

You never mentioned how she is taking this, did you?  How does she seem?  Do you think she's also struggling or did she agree, it's done?

 

 

 

[Batya33]

37 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

Hey thank you, I am unsure by what you mean here. I am not being awkward, just unsure how you mean they are not mine - is this because they are not biologically mine? Surely the split from their mother doesn’t mean I can see myself as not their father/grandfather 

yes my eldest grandson is almost 6 and he loves fishing, well he has only been once and that was with me and he caught some lovely fish and I have such lovely memories of that time with him 

Yes you can see  yourself that way and I agree with you family is not just blood.  What I wrote above is that given your choice to separate from their mother, their perspective takes priority so if they see it differently starting tomorrow you'll have to live with it. Had you adopted these kids or if they were blood then for some purposes their perspective would not take priority.  Since you are not related by blood and you did not adopt the children (her kids) they get to choose what level of access you have.

[Ade72]

13 minutes ago, SooSad33 said:

Also think on this trip you guys had planned.  Is it really the best thing to do now?  You are apart, no longer together.

You never mentioned how she is taking this, did you?  How does she seem?  Do you think she's also struggling or did she agree, it's done?

Hey thank you, no the trip isn’t the best idea - not sure what to do though as it was her idea to still go, I said can’t you take a best friend etc but she said no. I suppose I am trying to not hurt her more.

Re, how she is taking it - she says she feels sad when I go after seeing her - for example if we work a shift at her warehouse she will say come in for a cup of tea - then when I go she might message sometimes and say it is still weird that I am gone. That’s difficult for me to see and must be difficult for her to express too.

some days she says she isn’t sleeping well, I try not to discuss that with her as I don’t want to assume it’s to do with the split but I think it’s due to her always having somebody (me with her overnight) - it will take some adjusting to  

[Batya33]

I think you are the wrong person to help her through this adjustment, sadness and hurt. I think you are motivated by guilt as opposed to her best interests.

[smackie9]

What was so unfixable? Did you even try? Did you have strong/firm conversations with your wife about it? What was her reaction? Were you faced with resistance? Cold shoulder? What was it that made you determine that leaving was your only choice?

 Don't go back because you are lonely, go back because you truly do love your wife and want to rebuild the relationship.

[Ade72]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think you are the wrong person to help her through this adjustment, sadness and hurt. I think you are motivated by guilt as opposed to her best interests

I agree I am the wrong person, motivated isn’t quite right but I think I get you. I do feel guilty of course because I am not a bad person, some people would walk and not look back but I can’t do that 😢

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

I agree I am the wrong person, motivated isn’t quite right but I think I get you. I do feel guilty of course because I am not a bad person, some people would walk and not look back but I can’t do that 😢

Again who cares what some people do -is that your standard? As I mentioned you don't have to walk away and not look back. You can respect boundaries and if she reaches out to you you can choose to say "I don't think I'm the right person to support you in this way -I care about you and I think my being in this role would cause more hurt and I don't want to risk that."

Good people make bad choices, self-absorbed choices, thoughtless choices. Good people then try to make things right.

[SooSad33]

31 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

Re, how she is taking it - she says she feels sad when I go after seeing her - for example if we work a shift at her warehouse she will say come in for a cup of tea - then when I go she might message sometimes and say it is still weird that I am gone. That’s difficult for me to see and must be difficult for her to express too.

some days she says she isn’t sleeping well, I try not to discuss that with her as I don’t want to assume it’s to do with the split but I think it’s due to her always having somebody (me with her overnight) - it will take some adjusting to  

Ohh right, the workplace 😕 .  Not easy at all in this situation. I guess one of you can't find work elsewhere?

As for her saying all this to you, you both need to work on NOT relying on each other this way.  You can't be her 'emotional pillow'.  She should be confiding more in a friend.  Of course it'll affect you in a negative 😕 .

How long has it been now? A few months?  That should be time enough for you both to be able to work on accepting what is, somewhat.  But, the longer you drag all this personal stuff on, the longer it'll continue to hurt you both.

Is best to just say yes, it is done now and stop all of this.  She can't 'expect' anything more from you, right?  All the conversing isn't necessary, as I said, she needs to lean on other's now, not her ex.

As for the trip, if she doesn't want to take a friend, she can ask for a refund or just go - on her own. But, again, she can't expect anymore from you.  This IS where you need to be strong.

In a way, is like slowly weaning yourself off of something.  But if it's been a few mos now, is maybe time. ( Otherwise, anything re: kids, sure, maybe arrange something on occasion to meet up with them to say HI, have a small vist, drink etc.. again, don't over do it).