On being shy and dating

[al7]

What places are better and what place are worse in term of women being comfortable to be approached?

 

We know that: Parties sound really good if you can go to them (I can't)...

bars are not exactly a good place to start.

[ShySoul]

Sincere but not blunt. When something is sincere it is truthful, straightforard, honest. Those are the things that people like to hear. But there is such a thing as tact, being able to be sincere and honest while till being polite and respectful. You may think to yourself "those are sexy lips" or "nice boobs" but they would be disrespectful to say. If you want to stand out, don't go for the obvious. Talk with her, get to know her comment on something that is more meaningful than appearance. Focus on the mind and the heart. And if you think a smile is just good, your not paying enough attention to the smile. The sweetest thing you'll ever see is a happy girl smiling.

 

Your saying that you have to play. You don't. Dating, realtionships, attraction... they are not games to play and win. Don't buy into the idea that you have to play the game and follow certain rules, there are no rules. Simply be yourself. Being honest and sincere, being true to yourself, is the right way to go.

 

About online dating, it's not that women are forced to be stuck up. What you are describing is part of the nature of the internet. When you have the illusion of safety and aninimity that the internet provides, it can be easy to get lost in a fantasy. People allow themselves to let go and imagine finding the person of their dreams. That can allow them to get picky, and as you put it, stuck up. But they don't have to be. I haven't tried online dating but I have been talking to a nice girl online for the past month. She's grounded, realistic, and down to earth. Not a bit stuck up. Sure, some people will be stuck up, whether online or in person. But the majority are not and there is nothing saying you have to be.

 

And about sticking to your principles, it has nothing to do with patience or life span. It has to do with staying true to yourself and honestly believing in your convictions. That's not to say you won't have moments of doubt or weakness. No one is perfect. But in the end, we have to be able to say we are proud of ourselves and our actions. If we can't do that because we've compromised our values to fit in, then we will only feel bad about oursleves and thats not good.

[al7]

1. I am very sorry, but I guess your vocabulary is a bit off.

Why? Look at some definitions (I am sure you know them but it is very useful to look at them again):

 

Blunt (adj) Characterized by directness in manner or speech; without subtlety or evasion.

 

So I conclude it is something not direct, subtle and evasive.

 

Subtle (adj)

1. Be difficult to detect or grasp by the mind

2. Faint and difficult to analyse.

 

If I say "Girl, you got such full sexy lip", would I sound evasive?

Subtle (difficult to detect, analyze or grasp by the mind)?

Tell me please if I am wrong.

 

To me it is more obvious that the compliments sounds just the opposite of blunt: straightforward (the the point), honest (What I really think) and truthful (it is a fact that I see).

 

Then you say "Those are the things that people like to hear".

You gotta watch your own words: people want to hear something, it is not me you put into equation, not my feelings or thoughts. You want me to say things "people want to hear". I dont mind. What I mind is calling this

"honest and truthful". I have to play a little social game indulgin people wishes, i.e. what THEY want to hear from me, not my honest and truthful opnion.

 

Amazing that later you say:

"Your saying that you have to play. You don't. Dating, realtionships, attraction... they are not games to play and win. Don't buy into the idea that you have to play the game and follow certain rules, there are no rules. Simply be yourself. Being honest and sincere, being true to yourself, is the right way to go."

 

Do you see my confusion? I have to be play no games, "be yourself" and at the same time say things "people want to hear".

Maybe it is still a game?........

 

 

2. We are just talking about how to name that phenomenon. Yes, you may say the nature if internet (dating) makes women more picky, and as a result more stuck up. I basically agree with you.

 

3. What kind of conviction you think I have to have? Saying thing that "people want to hear" and keep the truth to myself?

I dont mind. Just please call it PROPERLY.

[ShySoul]

I think you have a tendency to look to much at the details of what someone is saying and miss out on the larger picture. Instead of looking at the exact definitions of blunt or subtle, try to grasp the message behind the words. I did look up sincere to get it right, and I found honest and staightforward. When I say blunt I mean brutally honest, to a degree that it comes out sounding like the opposite of what you intend. You may think that sexy lips is a compliment and not mean anything else by it, but it would come out as you hitting on her and may lead her to believe you have other motives.

 

If you compliment someone it should be because there is something about the person that you think is nice and want her to know that. It should be from the heart. I'm not saying to say these things because people want to hear them. I'm saying say them because you mean them. The truth is, people do like to hear compliments. But thats not why you do it. I've always said that what matters most is your motives and intentions. If your saying these things as part of a social game or because you think others want to hear it, then you motives and intentions are in the wrong place. You do things because it is the right thing to do. You compliment someone because it is nice and because you think she deserves it. It's not about what others want or to play a game, its about being honest and speaking from the heart.

 

So in conclusion, don't play games and be yourself. In being nice and speaking from the heart, you will most likely naturally saw things that touch people and make them happy. People like to hear good things about themselves, and compliments do just that. But the point is to not tell them "what they want to hear," the point is to tell them how you feel without being so direct that it comes out rude or insincere.

 

You know what, it's not as complicating as this is starting to sound. Why don't you try to not think about. I've been told by girls that the compliments I give and things I say are very sweet and nice to hear. Yet, I never think about it or worry about what to say or do. It just comes naturally. Don't think about it and say what you feel.

[ShySoul]

With the women being stuck up, your again missing my point. SOME women may be stuck up, but you will find those people anywhere. The point is that MOST women are not. Go back to my post and read the last few lines of that paragraph:

 

But they don't have to be. I haven't tried online dating but I have been talking to a nice girl online for the past month. She's grounded, realistic, and down to earth. Not a bit stuck up. Sure, some people will be stuck up, whether online or in person. But the majority are not and there is nothing saying you have to be.

 

Just because some women are picky, doesn't mean they all are. That's generalizing and not something you should do. Don't assume that since a women is looking online that she will be extra picky or stuck up, only choosing the so called cream of the crop. That's not necessarily true. Remember that saying, don't assume or you'll make an *** out of u and me.

 

When I say conviction, I mean doing the right thing and staying true to your beliefs. I am not saying to say what others want to hear or keep the truth to yourself. If anything I am saying to be more truthful and not care what others want to hear.

[al7]

I have to clarify what I am saying here: It is not like I disagree with you, or the general picture you present. I was very confused by the words you used. And I still am. But ok, lets forget about previous details and move on to the a general picture.

 

The picture starts with "brutally honest". You know, call it as you want, just stand for what you said.

Brutally (adj)

In a vicious manner.

 

Vicious (adj)

1. able or disposed to inflict pain or suffering

2. Marked by deep ill will; deliberately harmful.

 

Hmm..let me ask you somehting why you think it is harmful or marked by ill will, or has somehting to do with suffereing or pain?

I mean my suggestion about lips compliment.

Where do you see it is harmfull or pain inflicting???

Maybe I miss another meaning?

So please call it as you wish, but make it real, man!

I am sure you know way more words than I do.

 

Could you explain to me a bit.. why you consider the compliment as "brutally honest"? you know vocabulary better than I do, and you deliberately choose words that do not reflect the actual meaning...

So again: I do not argue about that the compliment is not very acceptable. But I wonder why it is not and how do you call it.

Do you mind clarifying it?

[al7]

With the women being stuck up, your again missing my point. SOME women may be stuck up, but you will find those people anywhere. The point is that MOST women are not. Go back to my post and read the last few lines of that paragraph:

 

But they don't have to be. I haven't tried online dating but I have been talking to a nice girl online for the past month. She's grounded, realistic, and down to earth. Not a bit stuck up. Sure, some people will be stuck up, whether online or in person. But the majority are not and there is nothing saying you have to be.

 

Just because some women are picky, doesn't mean they all are. That's generalizing and not something you should do. Don't assume that since a women is looking online that she will be extra picky or stuck up, only choosing the so called cream of the crop. That's not necessarily true. Remember that saying, don't assume or you'll make an *** out of u and me.

 

When I say conviction, I mean doing the right thing and staying true to your beliefs. I am not saying

 

Ok, I can accept, agree that it doesnt really matter if some are stuck up.

Anyway online dtaing is just a number game. yes.

Just want to note: if you use link removed you will be amazed and not only amazed how this translates into a reality. Every single woman who has a pic I contacted didn't reply back. Just an example.

[ShySoul]

Again, stop paying attention to the words and focus more on the meaning. Brutally honest doesn't mean inflicting pain as you've come up with from the definiton of those words. It is an expression that means being too honest to the point where it does more harm than good, not necessarily pain but damage. You can compliment someone and if it is sincere and honest, that is how it will come out. But "sexy, full lips" doesn't sound honest or sincere. How many people do you know who say those things in a none romantic context? If someone came up with you and said that to you, would you be flattered or would you wonder why they were coming up to you like that. In your mind you might see them as sexy, but thats not going to come out as being honest. It's going to come out as hitting on her, flirting with her. It could cause her to be suspicious of your motives. Or it could come of sounding like some line that any guy would say. Talk like normal and if you find something about her that you thing is nice, throw in a nice little compliment but don't make it sound like a big deal. A simple "I like your smile" after she laughs at a joke works wonders. It's nice, honest, sweet, and in not likely to be misinterpreted.

 

Don't get so caught up in the words I use. In some places people call it soda, other places its pop, still others coke. But its all the same thing. What's important is the message.

[ShySoul]

Ok, I can accept, agree that it doesnt really matter if some are stuck up. Anyway online dating is just a number game. yes.

Just want to note: if you use link removed you will be amazed and not only amazed how this translates into a reality. Every single woman who has a pic I contacted didn't reply back. Just an example.

 

Dating, online or other ways, shouldn't be viewed as a numbers game or any sort of game. It doesn't matter how many people say no as long as you get one yes. Some could contact a hundred girls and get no replies or they could get a hundred replies. Someone could only contact one girl but get a reply and hit it off really well and end up married and together for the rest of their lives. To many possibilities, anything could happen. If you didn't get any replies there could be other reasons why, not that the person is stuck up. Perhaps they weren't really serious about meeting people like that and stopped going to the site. Perhaps they met someone else first who they really get along with. Or perhaps they honestly didn't think there was something there, not because they were being picky but because they just didn't get that feeling.

[al7]

Brutally honest doesn't mean inflicting pain as you've come up with from the definiton of those words. It is an expression that means being too honest to the point where it does more harm than good, not necessarily pain but damage.

 

I think by hoenst you mean playing a polite game of compliments. The rules are simple: find somehtign you can see, say "it is nice", smile..

I just dont get why you call it honest? It is a game anyway, when you look for somehting to say what other people would approve and hide what you really think is attractive.

Again, you are right if you want to reach a goal you gotta say comliments etc, but it is a social game. Be honest with yourself about it.

[ShySoul]

By honest I mean honest. There is no game involved. I'm not looking for something to say that other people would approve of and hiding what is really attractive. If I say that someone has a pretty smile, I'm saying it because it's true. If I I give a compliment I do so because I want to, it has nothing to do with what she would think. The fact that she enjoys the compliment is just a pleasant side affect, not the goal. The goal, so to speak, is simply to say something nice because I feel like it. Maybe my mind works differently, but when I say pretty smile, that is what I find attractive. Or an even better example, I was on the phone talking to that girl I mentioned and she was talking about some volunteer work she did. I complimented her on what a good person she is to be helping people like that. I didn't say it because she would like to hear it, I said it because I was impressed and because I find a good heart to be very attractive, more attractive than "sexy lips."

[al7]

ShySoul,

 

We are jusr different people: I personally think it is more honest to say how sexy she is. Her smile is good, but lips are better.. You dont think so?

 

I personally think that voluntering is a waste of time unless you learn somehting out of it. Why did she go shopping? movies? skiing? etc...

I dont see that as somthing smart or useful or pleasant.

It is kind to other people, but why would I like that?

[ShySoul]

Yeah, we really are different people. I think most girls would be like Sheyda and be scared if a guy just came up to her and said she has sexy lips. To me that reeks of creepy and bad intentions. I would never say something like that. I also can't use something like "hot" or "chick." It just sounds disrespectful and crude. What's wrong with "beautiful" or "lady?" It's the romantic in me and the girls I would be interested in would appreciate that. I focus on personality and getting to know someone, saying a polite compliment only if I think she is nice and we are getting along.

 

Al7, your missing the point about volunteering. It's not what you get out of it, its what you give. We are luckier than alot of people in this world. The fact that you are able to type messages on this site shows you have access to things a lot of people don't have. If you want to learn something from volunteering, learn that there are alot of people who have it harder than you do and see how unfair it is. Volunteering can really put your life in perspective. You'll stop complaining about having trouble with girls once you see how many people have trouble getting food.

[al7]

 

1. I agree; you guys are both very different people. Saying someone has sexy lips might be honest, but for some people it isn't really polite or appropriate.

 

2. I personally would be annoyed and kind of surprised if a guy came up to me out of nowhere and said I had sexy lips. It would make me feel awkward and embarrassed and I wouldn't know how to respond.

 

 

3. I would prefer for the guy to appreciate my personality and comment on that rather than my looks when we first meet

 

1. Shysoul define honest as hoenst +polite+appropriate.

I define it as just honest. I think it makes more sense.

You dont think so? I keep saying he was right, but his definition were off.

 

2. Let make an experiment right here, right now: Sheyda, Your lips are very sexy!! (I see them in your every post, hope they are yours..).

How do you feel? tell me, honestly...

 

3. Just curious why do you this your body is not somehting he can make a compliment about? Why is it a ban to talk about your body? czu it might be related to... (omg) sex? so what? What exactly is bad about it to the point that he cannot make a compliment?

[al7]

 

1. I think most girls would be like Sheyda and be scared if a guy just came up to her and said she has sexy lips.

 

2. Al7, your missing the point about volunteering. It's not what you get out of it, its what you give.

 

1. I agree wih what you are saying: in order to do this do that. You are right. You just call it "honest" which is in fact not. It is honest+polite+proper. If I call somethign honest it is honest without any polite or proper. See?

 

2. I am sure I am MISSING the point, I cannot get it. So far I see that in oder to feel better you just have to go see people who are almost dying.. now I have to grateful I am alive. Very interesting mood booster.

Thats why people go see horror movies: ahhh scary!! ahhh they all die!!! ahhh... they get out from a theater and feel so relieved: they are alive!!

[eagles04]

i know what you guys are saying , i am honest w/ pople all the time. when i do tell this guys just run away from me. never been on a date but only had one b/f which was a bud of mine. Guys make fun of me all the time. i keep telling myself that iam better then them. i dont care what others think of me. look at my webpage. link removed

guys tells me that iam unattactive. well i dont think i am. i approach guys all the time and when i do ask for a date i always get rejected. no guys approach me, cause i may seem intimidated by them. dont know why. iam a tomboy. i did wrestling and karate and track , i have many friends that are police and fire people .

[Mun]

You know..al7, Do you want advice or do you just want to argue the "why" things are the way they are....because if that's the case this topic could be here for years. ( that's not a problem, just making a point )

 

I think one thing to keep in mind when flirting and stuff ... keep it simple. You don't need to go overboard with compliments, just be sincere, but if you don't have anything to compliment her about then talk about other things.

 

Maybe the reason you are missing the point is that you don't have the capacity to get the point. If this was physics ( or whatever your specialty is ) then no problem, but it's human behavior/ instincts and they are complex... there is usually no right answer .. you've been given many suggestions here. Try one of them. See if it works. It doesn't ? Try something different next time, but keep trying.

[al7]

1. I believe that something honest is basically something truthful.

2. LOL Well, it isn't exactly the same as in real life and you just told me it was an experiment, .......

3. I only said I would rather he comment on my personality when we first meet. It doesn't really give me a good impression of someone if they walk up to me--a complete stranger--and the first thing they do is point out how hot they think I am; usually gives me the impression they're only after one thing.

 

1. honest=truthful, ok, seems right.

How about "honest"=honest+polite+appropriate? I cannot accept that definition and pointed that to shysoul. He seems does not even hear, he likes his own definition as above. I dont mind it, just call it in a different way, cuz if we follow this trend we'll soon call a "dog" a "cat"...

 

2. Ok, I am saying to you: it is not an experiemnt. It is real.

(I am the guy excatly as you "wanted" you dont know me at all: I am a complete stranger!)

..Sheyda..., Your lips are very sexy!!!

 

..How do you feel?

 

3. That "one thing" is the most imporatnt thing is relationship. You still feell...bad about the most important thing?

[al7]

1. Do you want advice or do you just want to argue the "why"...

 

2. Maybe the reason you are missing the point is that you don't have the capacity to get the point.

 

1. Usually I want some advice, right here I want to know why it is so strange...you got a decent compliment about lips, that triggers thoughts like 'he is only interested in sex"... why there is "only"?? and even if he is only, why it is so bad? Sex in the most important part in relationshiop, at least for men, so what he is saying is just NATURAL for him...

Does men's nature sounds so bad?

 

2. Yeah, I cannot imagine how women think so far.. so I can miss the point easily.

[Mun]

I think the problem is in communication. You think it's ok to tell a girl she has nice lips because you like her lips which are "on her" and you like her...but to her it may sound like you only want sex. So in order to get around that you need to compliment her a different way so that she doesn't think it's a sexual comment.

 

Basically what you say and what she hears are two different things. I think we already knew this?

 

No men's nature is not bad, it's just usually very different from womens. That's probably why we have such a difficult time understanding each other.

 

Now I didn't mean you didn't have the capacity to understand as a slam. What I meant is that some people don't seem to pick up on social/behavior cues and they miss opportunities. Or they fail to see how something could work for them so they don't do it. I hate to say this.. I really do --because I think logically ( most of the time) but not all things are logical . Some things are just instinctual. But I didn't want to get this much into it.

[al7]

I think the problem is in communication. You think it's ok to tell a girl she has nice lips because you like her lips which are "on her" and you like her...but to her it may sound like you only want sex.

 

Hm, ok. If a guy compliments her hair she owuld not think "He has hair fetish", or "he is only into my hair!"

For some reasons lips (not boobs, not legs..) are connected with sex in her thinking and sex ONLY.

I cannot figure out why ONLY?

Even if it is ONLY, how can she be sure about it based on only one compliment??? I am sure he is going to say somehting else, why not to hear him? Why to assume he is ONLY into SEX based on one tiny compliment? In fact I see that she would reject him based on that tine compliment...is not it strange?

 

ok, it is not logical.. ok, and where are instincts here? I guess instinct would say teh opposite: if he doesn't want her, then there is no point is dating and she needs to reject him right away...

So no instincts and no logic.. so what is it behind this rejection based on one small compliment?

[Mun]

al1, have you thought about becoming a lawyer?

 

Hey I didn't say she would think it was sexual. I said she might think of it that way. Maybe because we are told that men think about sex 24/7 and so we think that whatever they say is in some way sexual. Honestly, I don't know that a girl will think that all the time. Why don't you try it and find out?

 

What I meant about instinct is that behavior is sometimes just instinct and has no logic. We don't know why we react a certain way.. we just do.. so to find a reason why is not that simple. Some things can be modified ( conditioning) but others are just so engrained into us that we resist change.

 

...to answer your last question. She could reject him just because she doesn't like him.. had nothing to do with what he said when he opened his mouth. Something so simple.. and we are back to square one.

[al7]

muneca,

 

I am not allowed to be one plus I donst speak well enough.

 

My point was that it is not logical (we all agree) and even not instictual...

I guess it is something we were taught, some sort of society stereotypes.

Why is the reason behind it? It saves time for a woman: if a guy is so stupid to satrta convo with a sexually realted compliment, it is clear he is either stupid (rare but possible) or he is is not gonna follow other important stereotypes.. Sounds true?

[Mun]

I don't get what you're asking.

 

Do you mean if he starts out that way do we think.. ok this guy is only about Sex? I would say it depends what he says next and how he behaves... you want to talk to this girl like she is your friend not a piece of meat. So you need to be relaxed and not focus too much on her physical side... get to the woman inside. Ask her about herself.. etc.

 

I don't know if that is what you were asking.. ??

[al7]

I don't get what you're asking.

 

 

Not exactly. I was just thinking why women do not like comments that might be realted to sex somwhow, they would it consider it either bad or inappropriate, but men for example are ok with that.

I was trying to figure out why.