Pressures of being a man

[annie24]

oh geez... what are you talking about? First of all, there's more to the african-american thing than "There was slavery, then there was affirmative action, things still suck." It's A LOT more complicated than that. I won't even bother getting into it here.

 

As for the women, actually, I am QUITE happy that I can go to college, and I don't have 7 children by now, and that I don't have to stay with an abusive, drunk husband just because divorce isn't acceptable. I'm quite happy with my situation in life, and knowing that I don't have to depend on anyone else for the food on my table. I think that people just need to stop whining.

[al7]

1. How about the people that you do know? You can ask them to fix you up with a single girl.

2. How many more years until you graduate?

3. I suggest moving to a more populated, young place then...

 

Ok, people I know:

1. Got 3 kids, a full time job and a cat. I see him once in a half year maybe. Obviosuly he can't care less to fix me up with anyone.

2. Got 2 dogs, 2 jobs, 2 trucks, 2 cars, 2 snowmobiles and just 1 wife

I see him in a half year.

3. Some grad students from different countrie who do not care about anyone besides tehir own ethnicity.

4. Some guys who have GFs. Hm. I have never thought I about asking them to fix me up with anyone. I'll try for an experiment. The results'll be next week.

 

2. With this lazy pace - 1.5 yrs

 

3. huh, my area IS populated. But is is kind very country side like.

A typical suburbia. Beside it is not like I have many choices where to move: it all depends on a job.

[annie24]

Well, given the choice between a lower-paying job in chicago, and a higher paying job in Monkey's Eyebrow, Kentucky, go with chicago...

[al7]

1. I really wanna see how two PhD now can find jobs in the same city.

No WAY, unless it is something where they are not paid properply - somebody should give in...

 

2. Sure some people are luck in two aspects simultaneously: they did find jobs and somebody usually a woman, argeed to give in...

What is she wants to be independent and wont trade her job for a worse one?

 

3. Yes. Exactly. Lets replay it: you already have a PhD and a husband you love. He got an amazing offer up north in Canada... you know you dont have a chance to find a position with your PhD (you are either overqualified or major doeant match) there. What would you do?

You say "I have been working 5 years, but what the heck, I love my husband more?"

 

4. Oh. I am not saying they cannot find love. I am saying it is not serious to fall in love and then split up.. why to start???

See, "looking for a job" thing would crack many many marriages. Just look at the divorce rate.

I am sure not many reserached would disloce this reason of the divorce rate: why? no one is interested in hearing that. You can't sell this reserach to business or governments.

[al7]

As for the book you read on divorce rates and marital laws... I think it's total crap! I remember some religious groups being up in arms about some "Divorce Software." They thought it would increase divorce rates. Seriously... if you want to get a divorce from someone, you will. True, in some states it's easier, in some states, it's harder. But, if you don't want to be with someone anymore, you get a divorce, or you move out and don't talk ever again, but don't bother filing the paperwork. Same thing, right?

 

It depends. Not all women are so inherently independent and decisive.

Some would stay even battered with aggresive husbands. Some do not want kids to feel bad about a divorce. Some have financial reasons.

Some many reasons not to divorce.

 

They had some funny data: the more educated partners are, the less loyal they are to each other. And that directly translates into

the divorces rate. It makes sense: the more educaton spouses have, they more independent they feel, so it wuld be eaiser for them to get a divorce...

 

It is not simple though: for exmaple we all heard about Russian brides over internet. as if Russian women are better wives.

What is funny is that divorces rate in Russia is as high as in the US!

Of ocurse no marital agency would admit that.

[al7]

oh geez... what are you talking about? First of all, there's more to the african-american thing than "There was slavery, then there was affirmative action, things still suck." It's A LOT more complicated than that. I won't even bother getting into it here.

 

As for the women, actually, I am QUITE happy that I can go to college, and I don't have 7 children by now, and that I don't have to stay with an abusive, drunk husband just because divorce isn't acceptable. I'm quite happy with my situation in life, and knowing that I don't have to depend on anyone else for the food on my table. I think that people just need to stop whining.

 

You see, NOW it is true. You enjoy your life. If you wait until you get established in your job, than it would be slightly different: many guys but none of them qualify. Still no big deal? Maybe if you want to stay single at that time.

[al7]

Well, given the choice between a lower-paying job in chicago, and a higher paying job in Monkey's Eyebrow, Kentucky, go with chicago...

 

Thats really cool. I admire you

I wish you keep this attitude after you gradute and get married.

No many women are like this nowdays.

[annie24]

I'm telling YOU that! When you graduate... go to chicago, so you can meet more people. If you live in some stupid suburbia where all your neighbors are married and have cats and kids, you'll never find any fun single people!

[al7]

I'm telling YOU that! When you graduate... go to chicago, so you can meet more people. If you live in some stupid suburbia where all your neighbors are married and have cats and kids, you'll never find any fun single people!

 

Go to Chicago is not somehting I can choose to do.

It depends where I find a job. It is not like a person with PhD today can find a job anywwhere. Mostly they are overqualified.

 

Still, Chicago has suburbs where all people live. So what would be the difference? Just a more packed place....

 

Speaking about divorce and jobs, here is somebody (nobleone247) is asking for advice here on this forum:

 

"3 days ago my boyfriend of one year broke up with me. It was out of the blue. our relationship was perfect up until this last week then he broke up with me. I just moved from Durango (where he lives and I graduated from) to Colorado Springs. It is a 5 hour drive and he didnt want a long distance realtionship. I had to move to get a job and I asked him that if I would have gotten a job there would he still have broken up with me and he said maybe. I feel so alon. I really love him and I told him that and I asked him why he didnt care about me enough to make this work and he said it was because he knew from the start that it would end when I left so he didnt let himself fall for me. the thing is I know he cares about me. when I went to mexico for a week he had texted me the night before I came home " I miss you, I need you, I want to touch you and be with you. please get home soon so I can see you." he would text me and say this stuff to me all the time. everyone who met him told me how much they saw how much he cared about me. my dad thinks its becasue its no longer convienent for him. I think he still loves me but he can't admit it to me or himself. I think he is scared of me because our reltionship was actually really good and a;; his past realtionships were bad with tons of fighting. I know that if we were in the same town and I had a job we could be together and be really happy. both of us. someone please tell me how to get him back. I took some advise that was posted on here and I am not going to contact him for a while but I need some advice. I really think he is the one. please help"

[annie24]

Well, reading nobleone's post, I actually do think it's a lot more complicated than just a move and a job.... if you read the comments on that post, you'll see what others have said. Geezz.. I kinda feel like I'm talking behind her back.

 

Chicago - big area. Lots of people. Some live in the suburbs, but you, as a single man, should get a flat smack dab in the middle of the city. I'm sure that there is ONE job for a man with a PhD in chicago. Or New York (where single women outnumber single men). Or San Francisco (where woman are continuously complaining about the lack of straight men).

 

That's what I mean, when you start getting job offers, I think you'd fare better if you go to a more "happening" place with a lower paying job, than to go live in the suburbs and be the only bachelor there...

[al7]

1. Just an example of what I was saying. Sure it usually is more complicated.

 

2. Have to admit, yes, center of Chicago definitely is a more social place. I grew up in a similar city. It was drastically different from what I have now: I could wake and cuz some hungry (and maybe angry) beaver came to my sliding glass door and started making noises. I was sleeping in a couple feet from it NY - I am not sure how any people can actually live IN the city: it is either to expensive or too poor.

 

3. I heard your field now is on a rise... in mine to get a couple of interviwe my friends send about 200 resume packages. and a couple of interview do not gurantee any of them would offer an actualy job.

So choosing where to live is not somehting I can afford in this decade.

[annie24]

Yeah, in my field, there are 400 applicants for every assistant prof opening. Lucky for me, I don't want to be a prof! I want to either work in industry, or for the government, so I'm open to moving absolutely anywhere.

 

I guess if there's a very specific job you are looking at, and there are very few openings nationwide, then you are in a bind. You may consider expanding the types of jobs you are looking for....

[al7]

Yeah, in my field, there are 400 applicants for every assistant prof opening.

 

I know in some fields, especially technical ones, sort of affirmative action kicks in: they would happily hire a woman, especially if she is black.

I have such examples next to me. Is it a pressure of being a man?

Nowdays for exmaple gay\lesbiab community fights for tehir right, here they want their own center, their own discussion grop etc.

Interesting, where straight men have their own center to discuss their issue (and how oppress they are now)? Their own discussion group?

No way... the world has changed so much, that it is far better to be in minority or be a woman: there all kind of support there.

For example I checked in out uni: they have about 10 organization for black students and about 5 programs. 4 women organizations and 2 gey\lesbian ones. I asked "Do you know anything about organization for straight men?"... the answer was polite, but the meaning was

"Go f* yourself!".

Is not it a pressure?

[volution]

You folks in the US moaning about choosing where to live!

 

Come to England for a year and you'll know what real living is all about....Here's the lowdon....

 

The cheapest house in a hundred miles radius of me. Repeat hundred miles radius of me. CHEAPEST HOUSE is about £120,000 - that's almost $250,000.

To even RENT is unbelivable here - you're luckier than a guy winning the lottery ten thousands times in a row to get a SINGLE TINY pile of poo room in some drug-dealer's den for less than £400 ($800) a month.

 

We pay over £4 ($8 ) per Gallon of fuel.

We pay £12,000 ($24,000) for an average rubbish new car.

Mostly everything over here is almost double what it costs in the US.

 

And our wages suck in comparison too. The average is about £15,000 ($30,000). That's what I earn. After tax it's about £10,000 ($20,000).

To rent out the tiniest of rooms or flats, to pay for gas, water, electricity, tv, car, insurance, telephone would cost more than £10,000 a year.

 

I for one, on my money won't be able to ever afford my own place in this country.

It's impossible to live here without getting massive credit card debts and unpayable mortgages here. Some people have mortgages they will be still paying when they're 70 YEARS OLD! If they ever get there! LOL!

 

So count yourselves lucky in the States! LOL, I'm trying to move over there any way I can!

 

 

Well, given the choice between a lower-paying job in chicago, and a higher paying job in Monkey's Eyebrow, Kentucky, go with chicago...

[annie24]

Yeah, in my field, there are 400 applicants for every assistant prof opening.

 

I know in some fields, especially technical ones, sort of affirmative action kicks in: they would happily hire a woman, especially if she is black.

I have such examples next to me. Is it a pressure of being a man?

Nowdays for exmaple gay\lesbiab community fights for tehir right, here they want their own center, their own discussion grop etc.

Interesting, where straight men have their own center to discuss their issue (and how oppress they are now)? Their own discussion group?

No way... the world has changed so much, that it is far better to be in minority or be a woman: there all kind of support there.

For example I checked in out uni: they have about 10 organization for black students and about 5 programs. 4 women organizations and 2 gey\lesbian ones. I asked "Do you know anything about organization for straight men?"... the answer was polite, but the meaning was

"Go f* yourself!".

Is not it a pressure?

 

Oh goodness..... Seriously Al, how many black women in the US earn PhDs each year in the field that you are in? $5 says that the answer is, perhaps, 2 or 3. Yes, these 2 or 3 women are STEALING YOUR JOB. Whatever. Like it or not, it isn't in the employer's best interest to hire someone who isn't right for the job. So, no, people are not out stealing your job. People should spend less time whining, and more time focused on their school and work - they would get ahead a lot more.

 

Look, everywhere is a white male club. Look at the Republican party, go to your local church, everywhere you look, white straight men! If you want to go ahead and start a club where white straight men can b**** about how society has done them wrong - go ahead and be my guest.

[al7]

volution,

 

Yes we all know it is more expensive in UK. And?

My point is it really doesnt matter, since you have a good job and have enough of material possesion to enjoy life. MOreover you can easily to

US. Whats your point?

[al7]

Al, how many black women in the US earn PhDs each year in the field that you are in?

 

Look, everywhere is a white male club. Look at the Republican party, go to your local church, everywhere you look, white straight men! If you want to go ahead and start a club where white straight men can b**** about how society has done them wrong - go ahead and be my guest.

 

1. Oh I have never said many balc women do... what I am saying before black women didnt earn PhD at all... now they do, and so do white women. And with each year more and more black women and women earn it. I can sure you if an emploer is not a small company where you have to work your as* off, that employer would hire a black, a women or a black women to maintain diversity, rather than a guy. They feel pressure too! So what I am saying is the preseerue of being a white man is inscreasing, and increasinf fast.

 

2. If you want to be in Rep party you will. They too feel the pressure: look at C. Rice for example. I dont think there is white majority in church, it depends on a church. Besides who care what kinda majority we have in church? We all do care about our JOBS

[annie24]

Yeah, in my field, there are 400 applicants for every assistant prof opening.

 

I know in some fields, especially technical ones, sort of affirmative action kicks in: they would happily hire a woman, especially if she is black.

I have such examples next to me. Is it a pressure of being a man?

Nowdays for exmaple gay\lesbiab community fights for tehir right, here they want their own center, their own discussion grop etc.

Interesting, where straight men have their own center to discuss their issue (and how oppress they are now)? Their own discussion group?

No way... the world has changed so much, that it is far better to be in minority or be a woman: there all kind of support there.

For example I checked in out uni: they have about 10 organization for black students and about 5 programs. 4 women organizations and 2 gey\lesbian ones. I asked "Do you know anything about organization for straight men?"... the answer was polite, but the meaning was

"Go f* yourself!".

Is not it a pressure?

 

In mine and Corvidae's field, the way you get a professorship is this: Do you have like 6 or 7 first author publications in Nature and Science? Do you have 15 publications in "lesser" journals such as PNAS, EMBO J, Blood, Nature Genetics, Nature Structural and Molecular Biology, Cell, etc. etc etc. Did you get your PhD from one of the top 10 institutions in the US? Did you do your post doc at Harvard, Yale, NIH, etc etc etc. Did you work for one of the BIG WHIGS in the field? Are you an excellent speaker? Ok - THEN, they'll consider you for a faculty position. Oh yeah - and you don't get tenure until you've been at the university for 5 years and "proven yourself." Let me tell you, Affirmative Action will NOT get your paper published in Nature or Science. If you haven't proved yourself to be AMAZING, you won't get a faculty position, regardless of race or sex. END OF STORY.

[annie24]

Condolezza Rice - like her or not, was a PROVOST at Stanford University, speaks 4 languages, finished college at 19, has a doctorate, and is a concert pianist! That, and she appears to be a pleasant person to talk to (and make international deals with), of course she became Secretary of State.

 

She is also a good friend of the president. She was his personal tutor during the 2000 election. Other heads of state want to talk to someone who has the president's ears and trust, such as Condi.

[al7]

1. but we can't all move to the US; there wouldn't be enough room.

2. I think the point he was making was for you guys to be thankful for what you have because all the people in the UK have it way worse than you do.

 

1. Well, you are just one person, if you want to move, US can easily accommodate you. Don think about other millions of people. You got just one life of your own.

2. I am still not getting it. You have what you want to have, but just have to pay more. So what?? it is not like you are starving or dont have a job or anything...you odnt like to pay more, ok just move where you think it is better. What is big deal?

[al7]

In mine and Corvidae's field, the way you get a professorship is this: Do you have like 6 or 7 first author publications

 

I am not saying you dont need anything to do. I am saying when they comapre two similar candidates, lets say a white man and a black woman,

a guy doesnt have a chanve nowdays. Still fair?

[annie24]

Al... that's not the process. Right now, my department is in the midst of a hiring. First, a team of profs sits down and goes through 400 applications. They weed it down to 7 or so. They invite those 7 to give a talk in front of the entire department. They also have to give a smaller talk to the other faculty profs outlining the research that they propose to do. Then, the faculty see which research interests most benefit the department. Does this person seem to be a good head of a lab? Will this person make good use of space? Will this person make a good colleague? You're FAR oversimplifying this problem. I highly highly highly doubt that there is ever a case where a 2 candidates, regardless of race or sex, are EQUALLY matched in every respect.

[al7]

annie24,

 

I am not saying black women do not qualify. If they do, they do.

It is not an issue. The issue is that nowdays they have priority in getting a job in most large companies and governmental areas.

So white men feel pressured: somebody with teh same qualification have more priority just based on their race or sex. It is a conspicuos violation of laws that this society approvs it.

I just think it contributes a lot to the pressure of being a man.

[annie24]

Quality of life is what I'm talking about. Sure, London's pretty damn expensive - but you are paying to live in London, one of the most exciting cities in the world. Incredible nightlife, huge historical and cultural center. I used to live in San Francisco and Santa Barbara in CA. Both are INSANELY expensive. The average house in Santa Barbara is $500,000. However, you are paying for living on the ocean, and having 300 days of sunshine a year. I live in wisconsin now - much cheaper - however, I have to live with SNOW and COLD and terrible, humid summers and only 2 weeks of nice weather a year. You get what you pay for, right?

 

What I was trying to say was, if you are a single person, your quality of life will be better living in a major metropolitan area than the suburbs. For example, say Al gets two job offers: One in Chicago for $50,000 a year, and another in a place in the middle of nowhere, population 5,000, with a salary of $75,000. I say, go for Chicago - you'll have more of a chance to mingle with people your age.

[al7]

Al... that's not the process. Right now, my department is in the midst of a hiring.

 

I am very familiar with the process you mentioned.

But I am also familiar with some female fellow PhD who easily got a prof position at a good uni. Did she qualify? Yes. I'll tell you more: she got it from her very first interview there, amazing is not it?

You think no one applied? or she was so brilliant that they hired her immediately? I'll tell you in comp sicence not many women apply for professorship, they crave sombody for diversity.

I have a friend at GM, he got his PhD and had been working there for 4 years. They hired a black guy (he qualify sure) and he immediately got same salary as my friend has, though he didnt have any experience at

all. Thats all right, but that new guy was mostly goofing aorund at work and the boss didnt even think about telling him anything about it.

Does it make a picture more clear?