Pressures of being a man

[FuriousSam]

An example of this would be we see how men try to get girls in the movies or soaps (Wine them, dine them, buy them gifts, sing to them, etc...). Then when we do this, we get a completely different response from them and we are left to wonder what happened. Of course a lot of girls will tell you that they love those things if you ask them and that's because they have been poisoned by the media as well.

 

You blame the media for that? They didnt originate it, they simply

offere what is popular for women as they are a majority of soap operas

consumers.

The media is like amirror: it reflects demands of society.

And nowdays women say more loudly what they wanna watch.

 

So.."pussification" of men happens not cuz of the "bad" media.

The media is just a carrier of info that many consumers wants.

I guess since women were oppressed before, some are very happy now with this "pussification" process as it draws power from men and directly gives it to women. Same analogies can be found with any oppressed minoroties: for examle african americam minority was very oppressed before 50s.

 

You took my example out of context, read it again with the rest of it.

[MetalJoe]

1. We may feel the pressure in some dating situdation. Not just everywhere...

 

I feel pressure on a date, but it's not really social ;-)

 

2. So if you got a date, how does she feel about you tin car? About you job which you enjoy but as you saing is not paying much? She is ok with that? You didnt feel ANY pressure?

 

I've not had any comments about the car, as it's not really something that crops up in conversation. Those who've seen it haven't come accross as being concerned or it being a "deal breaker". If a women isn't interested in me because I drive a low-end, but reliable, blue box on wheels then frankly she isn't worth the effort. I could've afforded something sporty or whatever, but I had more interesting things to spend the money on.

 

As for the current job, I'll let you know if and when I get a date ;-) Let's face it, the well paid IT job didn't exactly lead to women stampeding in my direction. Women do seem to perk up when I mention I teach snowboarding though - I guess because it sounds more interesting than "software developer".

[Shidoshi]

I think it just falls back to attitude. If you make it seem like you have to EARN a persons interest you most likely won't be very successful. I don't have a high paying job atm, I do plan on making moves for better money, but it doesn't consume me. I have friends who are with attractive women, and they make less money than I do. If you approach women and its obvious to them that you are nervous and somewhat insecure, you probably won't get far.

 

Stop thinking about what you can do for THEM. How about looking at it from the opposite angle? What are YOU looking for, what can others do to impress YOU? Everyone thinks about it to some degree, but it trully doesn't matter in the dating world. I have proof all around me, including myself. Looks/money, etc, sure they matter to some extent, but they alone won't have women busting down your door. Don't underestimate the power of confidence, or the perception of it, because it can make or break you in any given situation.

 

Hell, I've done what I'd call little "experiments" with women who I wasn't really interested in pursuing, and some who I was. I would not really pretend like I'm confident (I am about some things, but I'm still relatively shy), but I would be a little more assertive in talking about my beliefs, opinions, and stuff in general. I would put out a what you might call a confident "vibe." Believe me, it works wonders!

 

There was only one time in my life where I was supplicated by a female, which was my very first gf. I've since learned what not to do, and haven't looked back since. Attitude fellas, ATTITUDE!!!!

[corvidae]

There was only one time in my life where I was supplicated by a female, which was my very first gf. I've since learned what not to do, and haven't looked back since. Attitude fellas, ATTITUDE!!!!

 

 

OK, fine Shidoshi, I took your advice, I climbed right to the top of Ben Nevis and there wasn't a single women there so...oh wait a minute, you said attitude. God damn it!

[Shidoshi]

Hmm...not sure what to make of that ^^

 

I figure its some kind of joke/sarcasm? I hope you took my whole post into consideration atleast. I could also replace "attitude" with "confident-attitude." Maybe thats clearer. If you disagree post your thoughts!

[al7]

Well, most people start dating as teenagers, and then they get married in their late 20s or 30s, so by then, they have literally met hundreds and hundreds of people. No, they haven't dated that many, but they've met and interacted with that many. Either way, we agree that it's a numbers game...

 

I wish I were you and had your optimistic attitude

Just want to know: lottery is also in teh long run just a number game, but unless you buy a couple of million so ftickets you are on a disadvantage.

 

But you might be right (from your point of view): for a cute female extrovert it is sure possibel to met hunrred of guys.

Not for an intorverted guy: if his photos are not attractive, the number of dates is almost next to zero.

[al7]

 

1. I feel pressure on a date, but it's not really social ;-)

 

2. I've not had any comments about the car, as it's not really something that crops up in conversation. Those who've seen it haven't come accross as being concerned or it being a "deal breaker". If a women isn't interested in me because I drive a low-end, but reliable, blue box on wheels then frankly she isn't worth the effort. I could've afforded something sporty or whatever, but I had more interesting things to spend the money on.

 

As for the current job, I'll let you know if and when I get a date ;-) Let's face it, the well paid IT job didn't exactly lead to women stampeding in my direction. Women do seem to perk up when I mention I teach snowboarding though - I guess because it sounds more interesting than "software developer".

 

1. Interesting... I almost dont feel pressure on a date: my dates were not super hot or anything..so when I met them, I feel relatively ok.

It is kinda elusive thing that pressure. I felt it mostly in ... emails, when sombody were probing for my status\income situation.

 

2. maybe I should be more specific: when your date sees you car, you didnt feel any pressure? You have never had any comments from her?

I would feel kind pressured...

[al7]

Shidoshi,

 

You are right as always..Yes, attitude is a primary thing, looks is primary too! (but almost cant change it), money is next.

Since I agree with you what can I do to gein confidence just by myself?

I got an audiobook Confidence course. Amazing, the advice inside is like "dont be shy", "be social", "dont be afraid of making a mistake", "tell good stories", "socialize" etc etc.

Dont we all already know that? it is SO GENERAL advice..

If I new how to socialize properly, and not be shy, I would never even think about gaining more confidence...

 

Anyway, back to the attitude. How do (did) you get a confident attitude?

How did you learn it? How do you keep it up?

[al7]

There was only one time in my life where I was supplicated by a female, which was my very first gf. I've since learned what not to do, and haven't looked back since. Attitude fellas, ATTITUDE!!!!

 

 

OK, fine Shidoshi, I took your advice, I climbed right to the top of Ben Nevis and there wasn't a single women there so...oh wait a minute, you said attitude. God damn it!

 

corvidae,

 

Well, I guess what you want to do is concentrating on ways why you CANNOT do anything about being more successful with women.

Thats easy: you can't fail here: the more you concentrate on it, the more successful you believe you dont have success with women.

 

You just avoid it: instead of "attitude" you read "altitude"...dismissing the whole point: attitude is important. But seem you dont wanna hear that...

Of course if you already have right, good enough attitude in dealing with women than it is fine.

So, what is your attitude, would you share?

[al7]

Hmm...not sure what to make of that ^^

 

I figure its some kind of joke/sarcasm? I hope you took my whole post into consideration atleast. I could also replace "attitude" with "confident-attitude." Maybe thats clearer. If you disagree post your thoughts!

 

It is not sarcasm: it is avoiding getting out of a comfort zone.

[annie24]

Well, most people start dating as teenagers, and then they get married in their late 20s or 30s, so by then, they have literally met hundreds and hundreds of people. No, they haven't dated that many, but they've met and interacted with that many. Either way, we agree that it's a numbers game...

 

I wish I were you and had your optimistic attitude

Just want to know: lottery is also in teh long run just a number game, but unless you buy a couple of million so ftickets you are on a disadvantage.

 

But you might be right (from your point of view): for a cute female extrovert it is sure possibel to met hunrred of guys.

Not for an intorverted guy: if his photos are not attractive, the number of dates is almost next to zero.

 

Al.... ugly people get married every day! People meet every night in bars and hook up. What's that other great quote: "Beer: Helping ugly people get laid since 1869." So, no, it's not just about looks, it's about personality and confidence. I mean, look at Halle Berry - beautiful, sexy, talented, and rich.... and her husband STILL cheated on her. Being good looking and rich doesn't guarantee you anything...

[al7]

Well, most people start dating as teenagers, and then they get married in their late 20s or 30s, so by then, they have literally met hundreds and hundreds of people. No, they haven't dated that many, but they've met and interacted with that many. Either way, we agree that it's a numbers game...

 

I wish I were you and had your optimistic attitude

Just want to know: lottery is also in teh long run just a number game, but unless you buy a couple of million so ftickets you are on a disadvantage.

 

But you might be right (from your point of view): for a cute female extrovert it is sure possibel to met hunrred of guys.

Not for an intorverted guy: if his photos are not attractive, the number of dates is almost next to zero.

 

Al.... ugly people get married every day! People meet every night in bars and hook up. What's that other great quote: "Beer: Helping ugly people get laid since 1869." So, no, it's not just about looks, it's about personality and confidence. I mean, look at Halle Berry - beautiful, sexy, talented, and rich.... and her husband STILL cheated on her. Being good looking and rich doesn't guarantee you anything...

 

Well, I didnt allude to "money matters" thing here. In fact I agreed that extroverted, social personality plus decent look\height (I have the latter, but completely lack the former) do wonders.

So yes: personality and confidence.

 

I have never drunk properly in a bar I found you gotta be real good at body language since I cannot hear anyone, even myself. So since

I dont have any experience in this realm AND some people say it is even not worth it (they say it is unlikely to meet somebody good in a bar.. even if they are good they are in "other mode")

I guess I dont even need to try that one.

 

And Yes, confidence. I lack that unfortunately. Any idea how to gain it?

[annie24]

What do you mean that you've never been drunk in a bar? It's part of the process. You need to throw up there too and get kicked out for being belligerent... we all go through that stage

 

You know what... I don't know what to tell you. How to get confidence. I don't know... have you read the articles on the main page of this forum?

 

On a side note... oh geez... I'm posting all over a thread entitled "The pressures of being a man." It's not like I really know what it's like to be a man... I'm just giving my 2 cents anyways....

[al7]

What do you mean that you've never been drunk in a bar? It's part of the process. You need to throw up there too and get kicked out for being belligerent... we all go through that stage

 

You know what... I don't know what to tell you. How to get confidence. I don't know... have you read the articles on the main page of this forum?

 

On a side note... oh geez... I'm posting all over a thread entitled "The pressures of being a man." It's not like I really know what it's like to be a man... I'm just giving my 2 cents anyways....

 

Never get drunk in a bar. How could I get home?? I didnt any designated drivers... Anyway, I believe you gotta be social enough, or drunk enough and super lucky to find sombody decent in a bar.

There are of course decent people there.. but they are getting drunk, you know...

Well you just seemed confident to me. So I wondered.

[Shidoshi]

al7,

The trick to gaining more confidence is that you actually have to "believe" you are. Don't act or pretend you are because it won't work, and you'll always be thinking about it. You have to let go, open yourself up, speak your mind, and make a habit out of it etc. I don't always do this, but occasionally I do. Its hard to explain, its something you can sense about a person, their aura.

 

Don't obsess over how you come off to people, you have to be comfortable with yourself, and THIS is what comes through as confidence. Be comfortable with who you are, this includes EVERYTHING about you, your flaws as well as your strengths. Of course its easier said then done when your a shy person, but guess what? This is the reality of the world we live in, you don't get anything you want unless you go after it, and not in a half-assed way.

 

Being out-going and confident isn't easy for everyone, otherwise it wouldn't be considered valuable. This applies to many different aspects of life, not just dating. Its too easy to be shy and introverted, hell thats part of why people continue to be that way, its very comfortable, and at the same time it can cripple you.

[al7]

..."believe" you are. You have to let go, open yourself up, speak your mind, and make a habit out of it etc.

 

Look, I speak my mind if I can: for example in this forum.

When I walk up to a cute female stranger, I lose my breath (let alone letting go) and seem have no idea what to say.

It is a good idea to speak up.. if you are calm and know what to say.

Some undiscovered female waves prevents my brain from working properly. The mouth is dry, the brain not working...you think I still can

let go and speak up.. how?

interesting that it affect only strangers, cute female strangers. If I already know a girl, that seem no big deal to talk to her or speak up...

[annie24]

In your case, I really wouldn't recommend going up to random girls and talking to them. Perhaps it's better to just talk to girls that you already know. Also join groups where conversations can flow naturally. Approaching random girls, I don't think, is a very good way for a guy to land a girl. Even if he is very hot, many girls will still turn him down. I personally think it's kinda sleazy when a random guy starts hitting on me. The last thing you need to boost your confidence is tons of rejections from girls you don't know.

 

I agree with Shidoshi - confidence is key - how you present yourself to the world. You have to believe that you are a prize. Let's take for example, Donald Trump. He could introduce himself by saying, "I have silly hair, I have 2 ex wives, I pay lots of alimony, and my casinos in Atlantic City are almost bankrupt." But does he describe himself that way? NO!!! He says, "I'm the most successful builder! I own the most luxurious resorts and golf courses in the world! I'm one of the richest men in the world! I am married to one of the most beautiful women in the world!" and so on and so forth.

[al7]

1. Sounds good. What kind of groups have that flow?

I have been to a couple of student organizations: they are like sleeping pills Have been to toastmasters - there is no girls of my age at all (for a group of about 45 people there were 1 girl who was most likely married\have a bf)

 

2. That might be true. Hm... so back to basics: where do guys meet girls? I mean where girls want to meet guys?

 

3. I guess we all here agreed confidence is the key. I dont have a key, neither I am a Donald trump: nothing going on in my life with that speed.

In fact you cant tell just by my looks, nut I am half Amish: I dont have a phone, a watch and like walking instead of driving...let alone owning a golf course or been married to somebody.

 

Let me rephrase: how to start gaining the key: confidence? How did you get it? just ... some legacy?

[Caldus]

1. Sounds good. What kind of groups have that flow?

I have been to a couple of student organizations: they are like sleeping pills Have been to toastmasters - there is no girls of my age at all (for a group of about 45 people there were 1 girl who was most likely married\have a bf)

 

They are like sleeping pills? What organizations have you tried?

 

2. That might be true. Hm... so back to basics: where do guys meet girls? I mean where girls want to meet guys?

 

Anywhere. You could try hitting the clubs or bars but I wouldn't recommend it. At any place, if you get an opportunity, just go for it man.

 

3. I guess we all here agreed confidence is the key. I dont have a key, neither I am a Donald trump: nothing going on in my life with that speed.

In fact you cant tell just by my looks, nut I am half Amish: I dont have a phone, a watch and like walking instead of driving...let alone owning a golf course or been married to somebody.

 

So? Confidence doesn't stem from stuff like that.

 

Let me rephrase: how to start gaining the key: confidence? How did you get it? just ... some legacy?

 

Good question. It really is hard to answer this question. It will develop over time as you get out there and meet new people and try out new things. I know what you're thinking: you don't want to make a fool out of yourself trying to meet new people around you. You don't want to "practice" so to speak on people in your local area because those are exactly the people you want to seem confident around.

 

I'm having this problem at my university. I don't meet women often there because I'm afraid that if I were to screw up badly with a lot of women then it would spread around to other people quickly. Then my chances with any other woman there would be gone forever. I don't know why I think like this but this is how I think. It's funny because I'm so much more confident when I'm around women who are not from my college (and know that I wouldn't ever see them again). Any tips to help this guy think right again?

[MetalJoe]

 

1. I feel pressure on a date, but it's not really social ;-)

 

2. I've not had any comments about the car, as it's not really something that crops up in conversation. Those who've seen it haven't come accross as being concerned or it being a "deal breaker". If a women isn't interested in me because I drive a low-end, but reliable, blue box on wheels then frankly she isn't worth the effort. I could've afforded something sporty or whatever, but I had more interesting things to spend the money on.

 

As for the current job, I'll let you know if and when I get a date ;-) Let's face it, the well paid IT job didn't exactly lead to women stampeding in my direction. Women do seem to perk up when I mention I teach snowboarding though - I guess because it sounds more interesting than "software developer".

 

1. Interesting... I almost dont feel pressure on a date: my dates were not super hot or anything..so when I met them, I feel relatively ok.

It is kinda elusive thing that pressure. I felt it mostly in ... emails, when sombody were probing for my status\income situation.

 

2. maybe I should be more specific: when your date sees you car, you didnt feel any pressure? You have never had any comments from her?

I would feel kind pressured...

 

1) It's a self-imposed pressure. I get a bit of nerves and think "what if she's really dull or annoying? What if things go wrong? What if I make a fool of myself?". It's stupid because I've not had a bad date and things have always seemed to go very well.

 

2) It's just a car. Cars are very low down on my list of things that are important to me. It gets me from A to B, it's pretty reliable and economical, I like the colour, there's room for my snowboard, it had a tape player so I can plug my iPod in with an adapter So no, I don't feel any pressure. If she judges me by my car, then that's pretty shallow IMHO and not the kind of person I'm looking for. Maybe I've been lucky, but I've not had a comment about my car from women. A few guys, sure, but not women.

[MetalJoe]

I have never drunk properly in a bar I found you gotta be real good at body language since I cannot hear anyone, even myself. So since

I dont have any experience in this realm AND some people say it is even not worth it (they say it is unlikely to meet somebody good in a bar.. even if they are good they are in "other mode")

I guess I dont even need to try that one.

 

I shouldn't worry about bars. Not sure what it's like by you, but around here you'll get to meet people who are very drunk, wear far too much make up, and can barely hold a decent conversation when sober let alone after a few drinks. If you want a one night stand, go for it, but for anything even remotely serious it's not that good an option. In my experience.

[corvidae]

Hmm...not sure what to make of that ^^

 

I figure its some kind of joke/sarcasm? I hope you took my whole post into consideration atleast. I could also replace "attitude" with "confident-attitude." Maybe thats clearer. If you disagree post your thoughts!

 

It is not sarcasm: it is avoiding getting out of a comfort zone.

 

No, it was a joke. Not a very good joke, but a joke none-the-less, possibly intended to lighten things up a bit.

[greenie35]

There are a great many women who appreciate a man working towards accomplishing something in their life---even though they've yet to reach their ultimate goal. It seems to me you have a great deal to feel confident about. Also, women today are much more independent then years past and you shouldnt fall under the impression that a woman is looking to find a man to take care of her. It's enough that you have goals and ambitions and are building a life you can be proud of. If that is your picture you are obviously good looking. I know it is sometimes hard for people to realize that about themselves. Continue on your path and set aside any false notions about the "typical" woman...we'll surprise ya!! Take a chance before your old and gray and you start sagging and shriveling...Just kidding...kinda...

 

hehe

 

Goodlucktoya!

[corvidae]

My thoughts on attitude: well, yes I agree completely that it's very important, and perhaps there are just subtleties to male/female interactions that I have never grasped. If anyone has ever read my previous posts you may know I was quite unhappy in my school years, and got a very bad impresssion of girls. It wasn't until University I started to have girls as friends, and I suppose having missed out on getting certain skills, I then never developed them simply because I was expected to have done so already. I think a good analogy would be that of language: there's a period in the life of a human where they pick up language and set it into a certain grammatical structure preprogrammed in our brains (ref. S.Pinker, N. Chomsky). If children are not exposed to language in that critical period, then they never learn to speak properly. That's partly why, as adults, we have such a hard time learning foreign languages. Now I'm not saying it's exactly the same, but there's certainly something I lack. Something that I can't put my finger on, and it must be to do with certain bahavourial characteristics I lack. Because of my history I do tend to interact with women in the same way as I do with men. When I see women I don't look on them as attainable goals, more like I understand that they probably do date, but do so with other men. It's like I don't consider myself in the same category as men. It's hard to explain... It's not like I don't have confidence, it's not that I'm shy, it's just I often feel like an alien that landed on Earth. I feel like a piece of me is missing. When women ignore me, and aren't friendly or attracted to me, that fuels my feelings. Perhaps it's more like I don't think women consider me as a regular man.

 

I think there was a time, at Uni., after school when I started to be friends with women, there was a critical moment perhaps the first year, when if I had been treated as I perceived women treated other men, I think I would have been OK. But it never happened. While I was able to be friends with women, they never treated me like I was potential relationship material. Was this my fault? Was it something I said or did? Maybe, but you have to remember I was created by my experiences. So what about now? Well, I probably am still my own worst enemy, but in total fairness to me, in all my life so far, no woman has ever made any, not even the slightest, effort with me, and I do resent that.

[corvidae]

There are a great many women who appreciate a man working towards accomplishing something in their life---even though they've yet to reach their ultimate goal. It seems to me you have a great deal to feel confident about. Also, women today are much more independent then years past and you shouldnt fall under the impression that a woman is looking to find a man to take care of her. It's enough that you have goals and ambitions and are building a life you can be proud of. If that is your picture you are obviously good looking. I know it is sometimes hard for people to realize that about themselves. Continue on your path and set aside any false notions about the "typical" woman...we'll surprise ya!! Take a chance before your old and gray and you start sagging and shriveling...Just kidding...kinda...

 

hehe

 

Goodlucktoya!

 

 

I'm not suggesting women want a man to lean on or feed off of, but if a woman was successful herself, wouldn't she want an equally successful man? Remember the Chimps I referred to? (Once again, Chimps aren't monkeys). What you say is logical, really, it sounds very sensible, but I do wonder how much logic plays a role when dealing with primitive drives that have been us for millions of years.