So how can we overcome shyness?

[ShySoul]

Well, a headache and being shy are two different things. The analogy actually works pretty well, but your still comparing apples and oranges. Sure there are similarities, in that they are both fruit. But there are differences to.

 

Another thing to do when having a headache is to rest. Look at this as taking a rest from what's giving you problems. Have you ever had the experience of being completely stuck on a problem, whether at school, at work, or even just a brainteaser. Have you ever noticed that getting away from it and clearing your head can refreash you and give you a new perspective. Maybe the reason you are having such problems is becuase you are too focused on it. Take a step back, take a break, and come back with renewed vigor. If you take the time to become comfortable with yourself, you will be more comfortable in general. You'll come to see that approaching that cutie isn't the end all be all that you've made it out to be. And I've always found that love comes when you least expect. Maybe approaching people looking for something to happen isn't the way to go. Maybe you should just enjoy all life has to offer and let love find you.

[LycosV]

I have to agree with ShySoul, shyness is a part of who we are, but eventually something inside you snaps and you do something you wouldn't normally do. I have an analogy here that I believe works well.

 

Have you ever been sitting there when two people you know have are arguing about something? It doesn't matter what it is, but you're just sitting ther listening in to what they both have to say (that's what us shy people do).

But then at some point, you just can't take it any more, they're both morons and neither one knows what they're talking about so you bust into the conversation with your opinion.

It's actually very similar to what I'm doing right now (Not that I'm saying you are all morons ). I read through this whole post, all 16 pages of it, and at the end I did something I normally don't do (as my post count indicates): I posted this message. Sure some people will disagree with me, and a voice inside me tells me I shouldn't stick my opinions out for everyone to see. But I just did it, I couldn't take it anymore.

 

Talking to a beautiful woman is the same way. You want to talk to her, but that voice in your head, that doubt holds you back. But eventually, as long as you always want it, you snap and you go for it.

[al7]

Maybe is she'll wait indefinitely long..it'll work.

does it work for you?

 

You see, nothing inside me snaps at all....it actually is getting worse.. the more I wait.. the more I am scared. So I basically do what you suggest all the time - I just wait... but so far nothing has snapped..

[al7]

Maybe the reason you are having such problems is becuase you are too focused on it. Take a step back, take a break, and come back with renewed vigor. If you take the time to become comfortable with yourself, you will be more comfortable in general. You'll come to see that approaching that cutie isn't the end all be all that you've made it out to be. And I've always found that love comes when you least expect. Maybe approaching people looking for something to happen isn't the way to go. Maybe you should just enjoy all life has to offer and let love find you.

 

It is possible and I checked it. I did rest as you said...came back.

You see, it is kinda strange: I cant walk up to a girl and you say maybe I dont need to do that...I am lost.

[annie24]

Hi Al - Maybe you should just spend time with female friends for a while - get comfortable with females. Hate to break it to you, but I don't think that asking a person out is the hardest aspect of dating. I mean, you still have to go on that date with them! And even they agree to go out with you doesn't mean that they like you - only that they're giving you a chance.

 

PS - Ever watch "King of the Hill?" In case you don't, there's an episode where Hank wants his son, Bobby, to learn how to approach girls. So, he sends him out with Boomhauer, the local ladies man. Boomhauer and Bobby go to a shoe store. Boomhauer hits on every woman who walks by. Finally, after 22 rejections, the 23rd gives him her phone number! That's his trick!

 

I think that approaching girls is a numbers game. You just have to keep asking them out - some will say yes, some will say no. I honestly honestly believe that even Brad Pitt would get turned down once in a while.

[al7]

Hi Al - Maybe you should just spend time with female friends for a while - get comfortable with females. Hate to break it to you, but I don't think that asking a person out is the hardest aspect of dating. I mean, you still have to go on that date with them! And even they agree to go out with you doesn't mean that they like you - only that they're giving you a chance.

 

---

Annie, I am sorry I blah-blah here too much. Somewhere in this looon topic I mentined I have no problem tlking to a girl or go on a date.

It is easy since I already know her a bit so I can easily ask her somehting

and hold a convo. But when I dont know her ans she may not be even willing to listen to me in store\street, I feel terrified and that fear just kills all my skills to come up with any convo opener or even just to walk up to her. what if she laugh at me? (On a date she wont!!), what if she say "go f*..."? What if she just ruun away? Or make me blush like a tomato?

 

 

PS - Ever watch "King of the Hill?" In case you don't, there's an episode where Hank wants his son, Bobby, to learn how to approach girls. So, he sends him out with Boomhauer, the local ladies man. Boomhauer and Bobby go to a shoe store. Boomhauer hits on every woman who walks by. Finally, after 22 rejections, the 23rd gives him her phone number! That's his trick!

I think that approaching girls is a numbers game. You just have to keep asking them out - some will say yes, some will say no. I honestly honestly believe that even Brad Pitt would get turned down once in a while.

 

---

I watch King of the Hill, but seems missed the most important part

Coping with fear of rejection when you alreayd can walk up and start a convo - is different and easy. You already know what to do, just

kinda tired of rejections. But I cant even walk up and say somehting

meaningful....

[Caldus]

what if she say "go f*..."? What if she just ruun away? Or make me blush like a tomato?

 

Then it's the end of the world.

 

Seriously, I don't think any girl will ever say that to you. She's got some serious issues if that's the first thing that comes out of her mouth. So what if she runs away? Her loss. At least she didn't try to say anything to you in that case. And I think some girls find the blushing to be cute so why turn that into a problem as well?

 

How do you ever expect to go on a date with a girl if you fear all of this? If you're scared of talking to girls, then how do you expect to not be scared ****less when you're on a date with her?

[al7]

what if she say "go f*..."? What if she just ruun away? Or make me blush like a tomato?

Then it's the end of the world.

 

---

Yes, it is. How do I know? My fear tells me that each second...

I hate it, but cant just "surgically" remove this fear.

 

 

 

Seriously, I don't think any girl will ever say that to you. She's got some serious issues if that's the first thing that comes out of her mouth. So what if she runs away? Her loss.

 

 

---

Let me ask you: how do you know allof these? you read my post,

you think.. you recall some of your experience.. all are very conscious things.

Fear that we all have is not a logic thing. it does not think, it just forcefully make me aware of some possible events and makes me worry.

Fear is separated from consciousness I think. We cant just say "hey consciousness, here tht ... fear is going crazy. Give him more info and straghten it up." It is no gonna happen like this...

 

 

At least she didn't try to say anything to you in that case. And I think some girls find the blushing to be cute so why turn that into a problem as well?

 

---

Man, I dont know why fear thinks that way (even if you knew it wont help. I am looking for a cure rather than why fear thinks this or that). Yes it is my fear but I cant figure out how to curb it.

 

Now iamgine: you wear your best smile, apply you best cologne and say "Hi! I noticed you r reading about Napoleon... I am very interested in Napoleon, but he is not french at all... He is Napoleon Dynamite! Haha!"

what you see is she is just running away....

You would feel ok after that to approach anothr girl? that'd be spoiled...

 

 

How do you ever expect to go on a date with a girl if you fear all of this? If you're scared of talking to girls, then how do you expect to not be scared ****less when you're on a date with her?

 

---

Being on a date is easy. Why? She is kinda framed: she knows who I am (at least a bit) she is not gonna run away or scream or have her bf

come up and yell at em. Nothing bad is gonna happen at all. Because she know it is a date, so she has to be a good girl. All girls are wired this way - to be polite and to keep a date going. Besides, I have been to enough dates, I got some experience so i dont freak out anymore.

Approaching is a totally different matter as you know........

[ShySoul]

Just wondering, are you getting tired of me responding to you? Just kidding.

 

I'm getting the picture that you tend to worry about things alot. You overthink things and have managed to convince yourself that if you ask a girl she will be mean and put you down. But that won't happen. Most girls will be polite and nice. You've said so yourself, they are wired that way. You've had dates, so it's not like you don't know what your doing. Something has to be attractive about you or you wouldn't have had those dates to begin with. So what is there to worry about? Even if the girl doesn't want to go out, you made the effort and thats what counts. You are letting your fears get the best of you.

 

Fear is a logical thing. It's a matter of looking at the worst case scenario, and seeing that on the off chance it happens, you'll survive. It's knowing that the odds of that happening are not that good. Fear may make you aware of things that could happen, but you are the one that responds. Are you going to say "yeah fear, your right" or are you going to say "stop bugging me fear, your not the boss of me." In the end, you are the one in control.

 

Back to what I was saying before, don't worry about approaching anyone. Why don't you just talk to the girls you know. Chat with them and be friendly like normal. For all you know, one of them could have a crush on you. Maybe by talking to them and getting to know them, one of yourfriends can grow into a relationship. Then you can avoid any awkwardness of approaching someone because you are around people that make you comfortable and who you know wouldn't run away like you fear. And even if a relationship doesn't start anytime soon, does that really matter? I know how it feels to want a relationship, but why not enjoy the advantages of being single?

[LycosV]

Fear is a part of life, but when you really want to do something you eventually push past the fear and "get over it." There really isn't a better way to explain it. There are all sorts of things we're afraid of doing at first but if we really want to do it, we go for it (eventually).

 

Let's say you're afraid of flying, but you really want to go to hawaii for vacation. You put off flying somewhere until it gets to the point where you decide to go for it. You buy a ticket to hawaii and jump on the plane. You're freaking terrified, but you know what? The plane takes off, flies to hawaii, and lands. Nothing bad happens. Each time you fly after that you get a little more used to it until it's the same as jumping in your car to take a trip downtown.

 

Talking to women is no different. While being in an airplance you can ACTUALLY die; talking to women just makes you FEEL like you're going to die. Now you'll probably say 1. you're not afraid of flying, or 2. there are drugs for that, or 3. some people never get over their fear of flying. True on all accounts:

1. Different people are afraid of different things. Some of us (like myself) see that flying is far safer than driving and thus jump on a plane no problem. But I'm still partially afraid of talking to women even though it poses absolutly NO possible physical harm to me.

2. Sure there are drugs to make it easier to fly when you're afraid of it, they're mild tranquilizers, but they're only needed early on, and only for extreeme cases. If you're REALLY afraid of talking to women (to the point of needing drugs) you should see a doctor/psychiatrist, they'll be able to help you in ways this forum never will.

3. Yes, some people never get over their fear of flying and never get on a plane their entire lives. There are people out there who live their entire lives without having a real relationship as well. Why? Because they never cared enough about their fear to actually fix it.

 

Bottom line is that fear is our mind telling us something has a POSSIBILITY of going wrong, but throughout our lives we eventually, through repetition, show our minds that somethings just aren't worth being afraid of.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to go jump in a metal box with wheels and hurtle myself down a paved street at 70 miles per hour with only a two inch strap of material holding me to my chair.

[al7]

I'm getting the picture that you tend to worry about things alot. You overthink things

 

---

Thats right.

 

and have managed to convince yourself that if you ask a girl she will be mean and put you down.

 

---

Hmm.. you see, I didnt do that on purpose. Besides it seems to me I didnt do that at all.. But my fear certainly did.

 

 

But that won't happen. Most girls will be polite and nice. You've said so yourself, they are wired that way.

 

You see... being on a date is kinda an established ritual, and yes girl are wired to make it at least decent and polite, which is good.

The thing is in approahcing they see a total stranger, and they still do remember that strangers are not the best ppl in the world. "Don talk strangers!" we heard that from parents. So girl may even want to _discourage_ a stranger from continuing his attempt to hcat her up by saying/doin somehting which is not polite at all. She thinks she is in danger!

... and on a date there is no strangers. She is safe and polite.

 

 

You've had dates, so it's not like you don't know what your doing.

 

---

Dates do not help in approaching. I have never approached a girl without first knowing some info about her. Then it is easy to start talking...

 

Something has to be attractive about you or you wouldn't have had those dates to begin with. So what is there to worry about? Even if the girl doesn't want to go out, you made the effort and thats what counts. You are letting your fears get the best of you.

 

---

We again talking about conscious and subconscious mind.

Do you have fear of heights? No? well, climb up to Sears sky tower in Chicago, and get outside the deck. Step up to the rail and look down.

You still dont have the fear of heights? If it happens you do.. tell me what r u afraid of? you have a metal rail in front of you, you just cant fall down.

 

I know there is othing to worry about. It is clear. It is logical.

But fear doesn care about my logic unfortunately...

 

Fear is a logical thing.

 

---

I dont think so. If yesm then we wouldbe able to easily control our fears.

 

 

 

Back to what I was saying before, don't worry about approaching anyone. Why don't you just talk to the girls you know.

Chat with them and be friendly like normal. For all you know, one of them could have a crush on you. Maybe by talking to them and getting to know them, one of yourfriends can grow into a relationship. Then you can avoid any awkwardness of approaching someone because you are around people that make you comfortable and who you know wouldn't run away like you fear. And even if a relationship doesn't start anytime soon, does that really matter? I know how it feels to want a relationship, but why not enjoy the advantages of being single?

 

 

---

On a date you mean? I did that of course. It was fine. I didnt worry much.

If you are talking about female friends, well I dont know know anyone here who are friends. I talk to girls in some sort of official settings but I gguess it does count. And I dont have problem chat with girls in general.

I cannot approach them. That is the problem.

[al7]

Let's say you're afraid of flying, but you really want to go to hawaii for vacation. You put off flying somewhere until it gets to the point where you decide to go for it. You buy a ticket to hawaii and jump on the plane. You're freaking terrified, but you know what? The plane takes off, flies to hawaii, and lands. Nothing bad happens. Each time you fly after that you get a little more used to it until it's the same as jumping in your car to take a trip downtown.

 

---

Thats a very good example. And it is right it can be overcome by repetion of the actual situation.

 

 

Talking to women is no different. While being in an airplance you can ACTUALLY die; talking to women just makes you FEEL like you're going to die.

 

---

Again thats a very good observation.

 

 

Now you'll probably say 1. you're not afraid of flying, or 2. there are drugs for that, or 3. some people never get over their fear of flying.

 

---

I am sorry but it seems like you hadne had a chance to fly for looong time. Why? Look, the fear starts at takeoff. I do dislike that moment bit.

But what can I do? I am buckled up and surrounded with other guys around me. I cannot even move much. When flying, I cant just stop the plane and return to my home. See, once I bought a ticket and got on a plane, (which is easy and doesnt require too much efforts or conquering fears) they forced me to go through all flying situations.

In approaching I have to struggle with fear at each second, at each stage...it just drains my spirit.

 

 

 

Bottom line is that fear is our mind telling us something has a POSSIBILITY of going wrong, but throughout our lives we eventually, through repetition, show our minds that somethings just aren't worth being afraid of.

 

---

Thats all good. Now come a question: How we can through repetion

show our minds approaching is ok?

Unfortunately it is not like flying where once you r in, you cant go back.

Any idea how to make approaching irreversible?

 

I forget to add: I amnot afraid of talking to women. I am afraid of approaching a female stranger and start a cono with her. It is much different frm just talking to women you already know.

[LycosV]

Unfortunately it is not like flying where once you r in, you cant go back.

Any idea how to make approaching irreversible?

 

In a way approaching someone you don't know is irreversible. The moment you say "Hey" you've commited. It's not like you can turn and walk away. You can, but isn't that even scarier? Back to my plane analagy: You can jump up in your seat while taxiing and throw a fit, they'll go back to the terminal, but like you said:

I am buckled up and surrounded with other guys around me.

Getting up and throwing a fit is even scarier than sitting your butt in the chair and taking off. Same deal with talking to a woman. Once you've said that first word, "Hey" and she turns to look at you, you're in the deep stuff. To use classic Psych, you've got two options: fight or flight.

 

When you're skydiving it's getting out of the plane that's the hard part. Pulling the cord to release the chute and gliding down is the easy part.

[al7]

In a way approaching someone you don't know is irreversible. The moment you say "Hey" you've commited.

 

Back to my plane analagy: You can jump up in your seat while taxiing and throw a fit, they'll go back to the terminal

Getting up and throwing a fit is even scarier than sitting your butt in the chair and taking off.

 

Your analogy very is good in the sense of descriing the process of conquering fear.

But regarding approahing it is not the same at all:

Look: I said "Hey" she "Hi"...and she continued walking... I dont have much to say and scared so chase her... thats it.

Even if "Hi, hows it going?" "She" Good", and continue browsing her book.

I am on the verge.. I have to come up with some words right away and I am scared...

I see no irreversibility here really.

[lusitana]

Why do you have to come up with words after saying hi to her? Why can't you just start by saying hi to people and being happy when they say hi back, and work your way up from there?

 

Sorry guys, the conversation's passed so far beyond this that you should ignore it...this should probably be in a pm but here goes....

 

Al, I taught myself to not think by the same method I taught myself to lucid dream. Lucid dreaming is the process of realizing in the middle of a dream that you are dreaming and taking control of the dreamscape (essentially, dreaming while awake). I first had to train myself to look for things that would signify I was dreaming so that I would recognize them and unconsciously act upon them. I would look at my hands a lot because apparently they'll change in a dream, and if I was interacting a lot with my crush it would be a good indication that I was dreaming about him. Eventually I got to the point where I'd be talking to my crush in math class and suddenly ask myself, Am I dreaming? and seriously consider the situation before answering yes or no. From there I'd have to train myself to do certain things when I realized I was dreaming. If the dream starts to fade, spinning in a circle helps bring it back so I have to remember to do that. If I want to talk to a specific person, I have to walk up to the first door I see and ask if that person is home because no matter who answers the door, the person I'm looking for is inside. It's not a hard leap from, "The dreamscape is fading - quick, spin around!" to, "Dang, that would sound great - quick, just say it!" I recognize the trigger - wanting to say something but staying silent - and immediately override it by saying it regardless. (Side note: Lucid dreaming is da bomb. Everyone try it now! There are probably resources out on the Web!)

 

As for cynicism and Ladder Theory, yeah, it's a cynical outlook that fits many of life's situations.

Realism: "Things didn't work out between them."

Cynical spin control: "He found a chick so much hotter and bought her with his Porsche."

Goopy happy spin control: "They mistook their strong feelings for romance and decided in the end to just be best friends, but they're so grateful for the experience."

All of the opinions are valid.

[al7]

lusitana:

 

I've read your post and suspect you are a gregarious, talkative and cute extrovert. Those type of ppl tend not to get what shyness is..

 

 

Why do you have to come up with words after saying hi to her? Why can't you just start by saying hi to people and being happy when they say hi back, and work your way up from there?

 

---

Cuz saying just Hi means not much. I just dont know what to say after that Hi... thats why.

I am sure you do not initiatie randowm convo still.. just in case I ask you:

what do you say after Hi?

 

 

Al, I taught myself to not think by the same method I taught myself to lucid dream.

 

---

I think people who got lucid dreaming even didnt realize at first what agreat think they learnt! Anyway, this is awesome!

The key to lucid dreaming is to constantly ask yourself.. " am I dreaming?"

How can it help with "not thinking"? Constantly ask myself "am I thinking?

I am lost.

 

 

As for cynicism and Ladder Theory, yeah, it's a cynical outlook that fits many of life's situations.

Realism: "Things didn't work out between them."

Cynical spin control: "He found a chick so much hotter and bought her with his Porsche."

Goopy happy spin control: "They mistook their strong feelings for romance and decided in the end to just be best friends, but they're so grateful for the experience."

All of the opinions are valid

 

---

Yeah, it is interesting that some people just would say "they are just dreaming... it is not real. Real is what you see. That is real. And everyone has its own reality...

...Although, when reality is so active that poke you in your stomach (or below) you would immediately wake up and find "common denominator" with others who basically poking at you. You join their reality...or even they made you join it. What I am talking about?

All these views depends on how comfortable we feel in one reality of another, what we believe in...

Example: if you go to church, live in TX and didnt go to college it is incredible comfortable to believe that current war situation is fair, it is even necessary. Just an example.

[ShySoul]

First, it's perfectly natural to be afraid of talking to a member of the opposite sex. That's hard for most people, even the ones who seem to be outgoing and talkative. It's especially hard for shy people. But your fear isn't a living entity that controls you. You have the power to control it and conquer it. I know how hard it is and I'm only just know beginning to see this. There comes a point where you just say enough is enough and you speak out regardless of what could happen.You see that the fear isn't anything compared to the regret of not saying something.

 

Dating doesn't have to be some formalized ritual. This is a new millennium, things are changing. The old fashioned idea of the guy and girl having excepted roles doesn't necessarily apply any more.

 

I understand that approaching strangers is hard, which is why I don't see the point in it at all. Meet people naturally, through friends, work, an organization, etc. You get to avoid the akwardness and uncertainty that seems to be causing you so many problems. I know from another of your posts that you not into social events and that your friends are married. But there are still plenty of opportunites to meet people that are safe and not as pressured filled. Clubs and organizations are great. You get to do things you like, have fun, and meet people with similar interest. Your also in a safe environment so you can talk to people with no one feeling uneasy or scared. You don't have to think about approaching, just focus on being friendly and getting to know the person.

 

You are looking at fear as this living monster that is going to swallow you whole. As long as you keep doing that you are just going to feed the fear more and it will get bigger and bigger until it does swallow you. When you stand up to your fears then it you will be able to conquer them. If you've ever watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer there was an episode on this very topic. A fear demon was set lose and as long as people give in to there fears they feed it and it became more powerful. But when people stood up to there fears the demons was revealed to be 2 inches tall and easily stomped on and destroyed. Stand up to your fears and you'll see there not as powerful as people make them out to be.

 

Don't worry about approaching girls. Your doing fine talking to them in general. That's good enough. Eventually, you'll take interest in someone or she'll take interest in you. Then just be able to ask her out when the time is right.

[al7]

ShySoul

---

First, it's perfectly natural to be afraid of talking to a member of the opposite sex. That's hard for most people, even the ones who seem to be outgoing and talkative.

---

I think I realized my biggest fear is not about feamles at all. It is about random , undefined strangers..men or women.

If I dont have a question for them or I dont need anything from them I stuck with a convo with undefined topic...

 

I understand that approaching strangers is hard, which is why I don't see the point in it at all. Meet people naturally, through friends, work, an organization, etc.

---

I certainly agree with you. See, at work I see no peopel at all. Have no friend here so far and acquaintances do not iinvite me to their parties or anyhting..Clubs! I have explored some clubs at my uni. Either they are focused on their classes ( i just dont fit there at all even if it is something I liek: example - Psychology club I have gone to. They were talkign about battered women, shelters, how can they participate in that.. I am sorry I wanted to vomit.. it was incredible boring and I could not related to it at all) or it is about sometheing I dont care about. Toastmasters have mostly guys and older folks. Hmm?

 

Clubs and organizations are great.

---

Ok, are you a member of any club? Do you know any interesting clubs in your area?

 

Don't worry about approaching girls.

---

I just think if I dont approach them I am not gonna talk to them at all ever...doenst sound good to me.

[lusitana]

Gregarious, talkative, and cute! I'm going to remember that the next time my friends tell me not to be so quiet and then tell me not to be so bitter when I start talking. Yesterday I was wondering what to give up for Lent and they suggested I give up being "antisocial and unpleasant."

 

You're right, I suppose. Hi doesn't mean much. Conversation is a two-way street, though; if I'm talking to someone I expect them to provide some conversation fodder. People who consistently answer the question "How are you?" with "Fine, thanks" are boring anyways.

 

The whole point of the lucid dreaming story (and I swear it had a point besides how cool it is) was that I'd taught myself to respond to a trigger without thinking about it. What I'm saying is you may have to forcibly program yourself so that every time you think, "I want to talk to her but I'm scared," you immediately change the thought to, "I want to talk to her." I credit LD with giving me that kind of control to override my instincts because it was something I wanted so badly I could taste it and there were no negative repercussions to trying it (as opposed to, say, the risk of rejection associated with chatting up random strangers). You're still at the stage where you're looking for a magic, painless fix to make you a different person. You don't want it enough to succumb to mind control (and maybe that's a good thing). The nice thing about mind control is the more you use it, the less you need it, meaning in this case, one eventually loses their inflated fear perception through repeatedly ignoring it. That or I've become addicted to the rush of going against my cautionary thoughts, I don't know

[al7]

lusitana:

Gregarious, talkative, and cute! I'm going to remember that the next time my friends tell me not to be so quiet and then tell me not to be so bitter when I start talking. Yesterday I was wondering what to give up for Lent and they suggested I give up being "antisocial and unpleasant."

---

Look, for gregarious and talkative (even if not extremely cute) it might be enough just to say hi, just to pat somebody while walking somewhere... no deep convos, but they know so many people.. and it is attractive as some kind of network power. Energy. "Oh..she knows so many people..have so many friends... have so many fun.. so many opportunities." Isn't it attractive?

 

Unfortunately for introverts Hi is not enough. They see it as merely a ritual and want deeper connections. Introverts suck...

if I can change one thin about my life I'd transform myself into an extrovert.

 

Conversation is a two-way street, though; if I'm talking to someone I expect them to provide some conversation fodder. People who consistently answer the question "How are you?" with "Fine, thanks" are boring anyways.

---

Ok, so what is a good convo opener for you personally after Hi, how are you"?

 

The whole point of the lucid dreaming story (and I swear it had a point besides how cool it is) was that I'd taught myself to respond to a trigger without thinking about it. What I'm saying is you may have to forcibly program yourself so that every time you think, "I want to talk to her but I'm scared," you immediately change the thought to, "I want to talk to her."

---

Sure thats good. I wan to talk to. Just what am I gonna say if I dont know anything about her?

 

I credit LD with giving me that kind of control to override my instincts because it was something I wanted so badly I could taste it and there were no negative repercussions to trying it (as opposed to, say, the risk of rejection associated with chatting up random strangers). You're still at the stage where you're looking for a magic, painless fix to make you a different person. You don't want it enough to succumb to mind control (and maybe that's a good thing).

---

Hmm.. you see, rejection is a bad part but for me definitely not the worst.

The worst is to start from scratch, improvise without any topics.. I'd easily chat her up once I know her. My "wants" do not help me with the convo improvisation.

[al7]

I credit LD with giving me that kind of control to override my instincts because it was something I wanted so badly I could taste it and there were no negative repercussions to trying it (as opposed to, say, the risk of rejection associated with chatting up random strangers). You're still at the stage where you're looking for a magic, painless fix to make you a different person. You don't want it enough to succumb to mind control (and maybe that's a good thing).

---

Hmm.. you see, rejection is a bad part but for me definitely not the worst.

The worst is to start from scratch, improvise without any topics.. I'd easily chat her up once I know her. My "wants" do not help me with the convo improvisation.

 

The nice thing about mind control is the more you use it, the less you need it, meaning in this case, one eventually loses their inflated fear perception through repeatedly ignoring it. That or I've become addicted to the rush of going against my cautionary thoughts, I don't know

---

Who taught you LD? Can I find a loacal club\group that deal with LD?

I have read some books about it, but it appeared so hard to me...

I even didnot have (not remember( my dreams. And have no idea how I can remind myslf to look at my hand when I am sleeping...

interesting. How did you do that?

[Beec]

Gregarious, talkative, and cute! I'm going to remember that the next time my friends tell me not to be so quiet and then tell me not to be so bitter when I start talking.

 

If I wanted to attract people to me, talking a lot would not be one of the things I did. I talk and can talk a lot, and I'd try and contribute to conversations. But, I would make sure that I listened and that people knew I was listening.

 

The person who interests each of us more than anyone else is ourself. When someone demonstrates a shared interest it attracts you. When you seem intereted in what someone else says, they will want to be around you more.

[al7]

If I wanted to attract people to me, talking a lot would not be one of the things I did. I talk and can talk a lot, and I'd try and contribute to conversations. But, I would make sure that I listened and that people knew I was listening.

 

The person who interests each of us more than anyone else is ourself. When someone demonstrates a shared interest it attracts you. When you seem intereted in what someone else says, they will want to be around you more.

 

It is true, just I was referring to laws of attraction:

extroverts (who talk a lot) attracts introverts, and possible introverts attract extroverts.

[lusitana]

Unfortunately for introverts Hi is not enough. They see it as merely a ritual and want deeper connections. Introverts suck...

 

The first step in this case would be to admit to yourself that your expectations for ordinary, casual conversation are incredibly unrealistic (although you're absolutely right, Hi is an impersonal ritual). Ideally, you could practice your conversational skills on people you don't necessarily crave that connection with but if you crave it with everyone...well, I don't know. I find it slightly insulting that you think I thrive on superficial relationships. Everyone craves deep connections, but one has to realise that one can't have a spiritual bond with everyone they meet.

 

As for conversation openers, usually I just let part of my internal monologue slip out. I find that when I try to script my conversations, they end up turning out very badly so I really can't help you here. My suggestion would be if you don't know anything about her, ask her something about herself (like someone said, people love talking about themselves). And Beec's right when he says that listening is a very important and often overlooked skill.

 

I did a project on lucid dreaming in high school and read a few of Dr. Stephen LaBerge's books. It takes time and discipline and is a very frustrating process. With the hand thing, I believe he suggested drawing a big C on one of your hands (C for Consciousness) so that when you saw it you would think about your consciousness state. The hands never really did it for me, but I never drew on myself, either.

[al7]

Unfortunately for introverts Hi is not enough. They see it as merely a ritual and want deeper connections. Introverts suck...

 

The first step in this case would be to admit to yourself that your expectations for ordinary, casual conversation are incredibly unrealistic (although you're absolutely right, Hi is an impersonal ritual). Ideally, you could practice your conversational skills on people you don't necessarily crave that connection with but if you crave it with everyone...well, I don't know. I find it slightly insulting that you think I thrive on superficial relationships. Everyone craves deep connections, but one has to realise that one can't have a spiritual bond with everyone they meet.

 

As for conversation openers, usually I just let part of my internal monologue slip out. I find that when I try to script my conversations, they end up turning out very badly so I really can't help you here. My suggestion would be if you don't know anything about her, ask her something about herself (like someone said, people love talking about themselves). And Beec's right when he says that listening is a very important and often overlooked skill.

 

I did a project on lucid dreaming in high school and read a few of Dr. Stephen LaBerge's books. It takes time and discipline and is a very frustrating process. With the hand thing, I believe he suggested drawing a big C on one of your hands (C for Consciousness) so that when you saw it you would think about your consciousness state. The hands never really did it for me, but I never drew on myself, either.

 

Amazingly I have quite decent (not below average) conversational skills. The problem I have very hard time trying to improvise by chatting up with strangers. Seems I cant find a topic to talk to a person I dont know at all. And that makes me stuck..I say "Hi" and get stuck. Instaed of a topic to talk about I feel...I have no idea what to talk about.

I mean just extroverts talk more and they generally are satisfied with less depth of convo but with more people to talk about. Intorvets would rather to to one, longer and more in depth. It is just about preferences

based on our psychology. Not superficiality involved here.

 

Would "Hi, you got cool boots, where did you get them?" be a good opener? It is about her, it is an open questions.. I guess it is even quite natural.