Pathetic

[Hollyj]

By repeating over and over, how badly you were treated , you are placing yourself in that category.

 

If you keep ending up in crazy making relationships, you are the common denominator.

 

Choosing to stay in an unhealthy relationship is not a devotion to love, it's quite the opposite. If something is unstable and hurtful, how can that be anything other than chaos and confusion. It usually isn't months in that red flags appear, you are simply choosing to ignore.

 

Why would you have loyalty and commitment to someone who does not respect or treat you well? Why aren't you expecting more for yourself? You should not put your partner ahead, when it is to your detriment. This is codependency.

 

Doesn't matter if you stood up, you still stuck around for more abuse. This says she can continue to treat you like a doormat .

 

Love is not blind, when you decide to remove the blinders.

 

Do better for yourself. Get some help, so that are able to identify unhealthy partners.

[OneForTheRoad]

Very good advice all round. I can see glimpses of what I've done before in your behavior.

 

Thing is, you have proven to yourself that you have so much strength, devotion and love in you. You have just given it to someone undeserving of it.

Now it is time to turn all of that on yourself and you will become stronger than ever.

[ajhurst210]

You do sound rather emotionally unstable and oversensitive and overly emotional.

 

On your initial post on this thread you talk about how she'd get drunk and say cruel things to you and you'd break down and cry.

 

To me that seems way over the top for a guy. A girl, maybe.. but us guys we gotta be strong and tough, and she was obviously baiting you and being cruel just to get a reaction out of you for kicks and giggles, and you played right into it by breaking down into hysterics. You gotta learn to man up, this is probably what killed the relationship, a girl like that needs a guy she can't push around.

 

Over the top? So a man who shows emotions is not a man? A man who cries is unstable?

 

First off, I did not go into "hysterics"... I didn't fall to the floor in a sobbing mess with snot running down my face and gasping for breath. And even if I had, it's not going to change the fact that this kind of thinking is just plain wrong and stereotyping. I can count the number of times I cried in front of her on my fingers. The few times that I did, she reacted with mockery and coldness.

 

A man can cry. A man is not bound to just be muscle and toughness. I've known and do know great men in my life that haven't been afraid to cry in front of others. One of the strongest men I've ever known in my life was my uncle Greg who was nicknamed "The Rock" ironically due to him being emotional and known to cry.

 

My father is the epitome of what is viewed as a man. He hunts, he lifts weights, he's never one to talk about feelings or show too much emotion. I've only seen that man cry twice in my life. Once when we buried my uncle Greg when he died of cancer, and once when he was faced with his marriage ending. He sobbed and sobbed and sobbed in my sister and i's arms. Because men can feel emotional and show it. It's perfectly ok.

 

Neither of those men were unstable or over sensitive or over emotional. And neither am I. If I was, my life would be a constant state of fluctuating emotions. I would cry not just from how my ex treated me, but from something bad happening at work, or getting a flat tire or when family or friends say anything that might offend or hurt me in the slightest.

 

Emotional trauma from someone you love is painful. Pain is not something to be ashamed of or to be hidden, especially to those you're closest to. And it certainly doesn't make a man any less of a man to show emotions.

[ajhurst210]

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you that I'm the common denominator. I have to be because well, these are my relationships. I can admit to being the one who always lets it go on too long and for ignoring red flags. But I can't exactly take the blame for how another person treats me because I have no control over their actions. Just over my REactions to it. And most of the time, my reaction is to lie down and be a door mat. I certainly won't deny that fact, and therein lies a problem.

 

But I also believe in not giving up on things when they get bad, and in giving people the benefit of the doubt because we all make mistakes and sometimes are blinded by own our selfishness that we hurt others. Perhaps I should view that as a problem aswell and start taking zero crap from anyone in a relationship but that just seems extreme to me.

 

Again. Not disagreeing with anything you're saying. I definitely do have to reevaluate my relationship habits.

[sargon]

So a man who shows emotions is not a man? A man who cries is unstable?

 

I never said that. I suggested that your reaction to her cruel drunken words is over the top and indicates possible emotional instability. Sure a man can cry. He can cry when he loses a loved one, or is in severe physical pain, or because he's experienced trauma in his life such as the end of a marriage. But to cry because your drunken girlfriend says mean things to you? That's extreme.

[ajhurst210]

I never said that. I suggested that your reaction to her cruel drunken words is over the top and indicates possible emotional instability. Sure a man can cry. He can cry when he loses a loved one, or is in severe physical pain, or because he's experienced trauma in his life such as the end of a marriage. But to cry because your drunken girlfriend says mean things to you? That's extreme.

 

You think I cried because of the words she was saying or more because of the situation?

 

What hurt me was not her words but her desire to hurt me. Her capability to be that cruel to me. I don't care what state of mind she was in. She didn't just get drunk and start laying into me one day and I broke down into tears because someone was saying mean things to me.

 

People have said mean things to me before in my life, I didn't break down into tears then.

 

No, the accumulation of so much emotional trauma from the bad parts of our relationship and the fact that it, something I cared about deeply, was disintegrating right in front of my eyes for so long is why the action hurt so much.

 

There are always layers to things, something that could normally be shrugged off and ignored with eye rolling like getting drunk and saying mean crap can trigger the deeper layers to come to the surface.

[sargon]

There are always layers to things, something that could normally be shrugged off and ignored with eye rolling like getting drunk and saying mean crap can trigger the deeper layers to come to the surface.

 

I guess but considering her reaction is to sit there and mock you, if I was in your shoes I'd at the very least remove myself from the situation rather than show such weakness to a woman who has no tolerance for it.

[captcha45]

I guess but considering her reaction is to sit there and mock you, if I was in your shoes I'd at the very least remove myself from the situation rather than show such weakness to a woman who has no tolerance for it.

 

My ex used to cry in front of me. Nothing wrong with that. He would have thrown me out of the apartment though if I had mocked him.

 

Like others said I think you are choosing to ignore red flags. Most of us did or we wouldn't be on ENA I don't blame you!

Try to reflect back on the beginning of your RS knowing what you know now. I'm sure you would pick up some signs. Maybe you didn't back then- but now you definitely would. Think hard and be honest with yourself.

 

One thing I learned from my past relationship: If people tell you they've got issues- believe them. Don't try to fix those issues. Did she ever tell you (early on) she had anger issues? Overly jealous? Manipulating exes? Past behaviour is the best indicator of future behaviour.

[ajhurst210]

I guess but considering her reaction is to sit there and mock you, if I was in your shoes I'd at the very least remove myself from the situation rather than show such weakness to a woman who has no tolerance for it.

 

Again, it's not weakness to show emotion to someone who is supposed to love you.

 

But yes, removing myself from the situation would've been a far better reaction than to just stand there until it got to me. Or better yet, removing her so the situation never even came up again.

 

There are lots of things that should've happened in different ways. Such is life.

[blanco]

One thing I learned from my past relationship: If people tell you they've got issues- believe them. Don't try to fix those issues. Did she ever tell you (early on) she had anger issues? Overly jealous? Manipulating exes? Past behaviour is the best indicator of future behaviour.

 

This is good advice. It's good when your partner has self-awareness about such issues, but that's just half of the battle. My ex told me in our first year of dating that she had trouble expressing affection verbally and had periods of feeling detached from the relationship. This wasn't just toward me; this was a recurring pattern in her relationships. I thought I could handle it, because she indicated she wanted to change those behaviors. However, as time went on, it became more obvious that this was simply who she was. Nothing short of one-on-one therapy dedicated to getting to the root of these issues was going to change her for more than brief spurts. And since she is totally against therapy in general, that was never going to happen.

[lilygirl]

Hi aj, I applaud you for feeling the pain. Truly I do, feeling all this pain requires courage. That is the hardest part. The tears and the anger and all those emotions that feel like they are all spilling out everywhere is the best thing that can happen to you. Yes, we must often keep this messiness to ourselves during our private times, but it is so healthy to let it all out. Do not feel ashamed! The last thing you need on top of everything else is to feel shame.

 

You know intellectually that your ex is not good for you and that her treatment of you was truly awful. Like I said, that is intellectually, your heart is nowhere near ready to accept and understand that reality. It is still very early days for you, I know it doesn't feel like that but you are in the thick of all the emotional messiness. Skipping this messiness by keeping your head up, trying to ignore it, etc etc only buries the pain and it turns into baggage and bitterness.

 

When the emotional storm settles a bit, then you can step back and start thinking about why you put up with what you do. I hold no judgement, I am very much like you and have spent too much time with unworthy partners.

[ghostgirl116]

I guess but considering her reaction is to sit there and mock you, if I was in your shoes I'd at the very least remove myself from the situation rather than show such weakness to a woman who has no tolerance for it.

 

ok, can you try some actual compassion?

[ajhurst210]

My ex used to cry in front of me. Nothing wrong with that. He would have thrown me out of the apartment though if I had mocked him.

 

Like others said I think you are choosing to ignore red flags. Most of us did or we wouldn't be on ENA I don't blame you!

Try to reflect back on the beginning of your RS knowing what you know now. I'm sure you would pick up some signs. Maybe you didn't back then- but now you definitely would. Think hard and be honest with yourself.

 

One thing I learned from my past relationship: If people tell you they've got issues- believe them. Don't try to fix those issues. Did she ever tell you (early on) she had anger issues? Overly jealous? Manipulating exes? Past behaviour is the best indicator of future behaviour.

 

She never clued me in on anything herself. Her pride is too enormous to ever admit or even think that she's done something wrong.

 

In hindsight there were some red flags, yes. Some that I chose to ignore, or rather saw but chose to live with, and some that only made sense after she was gone.

 

When we first started dating her previous ex was basically stalking her. Texting her, texting me, leaving her a box of their mementos at her parents house where she lived. At first I was kinda like "ok, what's going on here?" To myself. But the more and more this man did had me convinced he was just crazy. He was creating fake Facebook profiles of me and her and having fake conversations with other girls/men and showing them to us to try and get us to break up. He somehow got my phone number and was texting me supposed phone conversations she was having with him saying she wanted him back. Eventually she filed a restraining order on him and went to court. She told me not to come because it would just make things worse. He kinda backed off after that.

 

I'm not doubting the guy was going crazy. But what I think happened, just judging by how quickly and easily she dumped me and moved on. I think she did the same to him. Dumped him and then jumped straight into a relationship with me. And that made him crazy with jealousy and desperate.

 

I don't know any of that because I guess I just didn't ask enough questions or just because I chalked him up to being a crazy ex. We all have one. But it's certainly suspicious now that I've seen just how coldly and quickly she can throw a man out of her life.

 

Some of the red flags I ignored was definitely her temperament. I saw inklings of that early over the littlest things. Nothing major mind you. But just little hints that she had a temper.

 

And obviously, the ex husband thing. Huge HUGE red flag that I chose to live with. We should've separated way back when that first became and issue because I knew it would be a problem.

 

So a lot of my heartache is on me

[Hollyj]

"And that made him crazy with jealousy and desperate." Don't make any type of excuse or rationalization for this type of behavior, as it's psycho!

 

What was your upbringing like? You excuse very poor behaviors in people, where many would run.

[ajhurst210]

My upbringing was just fine. I come from a loving home with great parents and an incredible big sister. My family is very close and the most important thing in this world to me.

 

I'm not making excuses for the behavior. Im not justifying this type of reaction as under stable. I'm not denying the "craziness" of it. I'm just saying I think I see why it was happening now that I've seen what's she's like when breaking up with someone.

[Hollyj]

He's as unstable, as her. Like attracts like.

 

They don't matter. What matters is that you seek help for your co dependence.

[desperado22]

Have you ever thought that she was so sweet because she was mirroring you? Narcissists pick people they wish they were like and proceed to act like them because they lack what you have. Empathy for others and self control. You only ignored the red flags because as soon as you were suspicious she corrected herself and became more like you because you were her source. You gave her strength and weight that otherwise she would not have. she loved herself through your love for her. But when she had you for sure you were not a challenge anymore. You were not exiting enough and she would go back to her old tricks. Read the forums about Narcissist people and let me know what you think.

[FirstIn]

My upbringing was just fine. I come from a loving home with great parents and an incredible big sister. My family is very close and the most important thing in this world to me.

 

I'm not making excuses for the behavior. Im not justifying this type of reaction as under stable. I'm not denying the "craziness" of it. I'm just saying I think I see why it was happening now that I've seen what's she's like when breaking up with someone.

 

Isn't it weird when you look back and realise that the only thing you really did wrong was to say that their behavior was ok. I think this a lot. I realise that she was probably always going to leave because she wasn't really a stable partner. When things were good they were great. Whenever there was a little hiccup or hurdle she would show that she wasn't really in it in some way. I can recall having the feeling that if I ever got sent to prison for something I didn't do, she wouldn't be there when I got out!! At the time I made excuses. "I'm overacting, I'm too sensitive etc". But, there was nothing I could have done to keep her around - except never cause any problems or speak up about anything. It kind of gives me a little peace. Hopefully you can think about it that way too.

 

My ex also has a history of suddenly leaving relationships and never even thinking about what went wrong. She seems to instantly jump to the next fun thing or pretend like it never happened. I was the next fun thing. I didn't realise that she broke up with her ex so suddenly. My ex's mum is the same. Where as my parents were together for 40 years - sure they argued, but the next day they were fine. Her parents slept in separate beds, never talked to each other (never argued either!) and going through yet another divorce. Her mother is upto number 3. We had totally different ideas of a healthy relationship. Or should I say, she had none. I ignored all this..... My eyes are now very open!

[ajhurst210]

I felt the same way in my relationship with my ex. I'm not gonna say I was always perfect because that's impossible, no one is perfect. But I KNOW that I was good to that woman. I did nothing to justify being left like I was. Nothing. And like you said with your ex, when things were good, she was incredible. She was the most loving and supportive and amazing girl I've ever known when things were good. But at the sign of ANY conflict whatsoever, she just wasn't stable enough or maybe just not committed enough to actually handle the issue like two people in a good relationship should do. Her pride was ENORMOUS. I've never in my life met anyone who couldn't apologize or admit to being wrong or doing something wrong like she did. You could catch her red handed in a lie and she still would deny it and never say the words "I'm sorry"... I don't think I ever heard that phrase from her in our entire relationship. Not sincerely anyway.

 

She's the type of person that if you were to walk in on her in bed with another man, she'd find some way to make her actions YOUR fault. She wouldn't immediately feel shame or remorse, she wouldn't apologize. She'd just react with anger and blaming everyone and everything else around her. That was her level of stubbornness. That was her ego.

 

You spend enough time in a relationship with someone like that, where every single issue that comes up, the blame is pushed on you with unrelenting force... yes, you start to believe it. You start questioning your own values and emotions saying "I'm just over-reacting" or "I'm too sensitive"... you start seeing yourself as the unstable one. The one with all the baggage and all the problems. You learn to accept that everything is always going to be your fault no matter how much you try and stand your ground.

 

Maybe that can be called co-dependency. Maybe that can be called weak. I dont really care what it's called or what it makes me. What it was, was just difficult and heartbreaking. You love someone, truly love them. You commit yourself to making a relationship work. So you stick it out in hopes that things will change. You KNOW deep down that they won't change but maybe you can learn to deal with it better. Or maybe the two of you will learn how to handle each other's baggage better because everyone comes with baggage. Everyone has their vices and their virtues so you take the bad with the good in everybody. And when two people get together, it takes awhile for them to learn how to tackle the big issues without turning on each other. How to handle the differences in values and opinions. But some people just aren't compatible, or one person is more willing to compromise than the other and things just can't work that way. Someone becomes resentful or unhappy. And that's what happened to me.

 

Her pride and unwillingness to compromise coupled with her refusal to let go of her ex husband and her anger issues just did so much damage to our relationship on my end. I'm sure things seemed fine on hers. Maybe not fine, but better than the way I saw it. And when the sh*t finally hit the fan and I just came out and told her I wasn't happy and wanted to work on things... and she was faced with the choice of fight or flight. She chose flight. And when she flew, boy did she fly. Jumped straight from a two and a half year relationship into "clarity" in just a matter of two weeks.

 

Parts of me are still stuck in the mindset that all the blame should fall on me. Especially since she's the one who left me. I tell myself that that can only mean that I was the one who made all the mistakes, I was the one that needed to change, I was the one who couldn't make it work. But on the days when I step out of the fog she left me in and gain my own clarity... I can see that I did what I could to make it work. I treated her good, always. And I was willing to keep trying even when I was the one who was unhappy. And I wasn't unhappy because I'm just a naturally unhappy person. I wasn't insecure because I'm a naturally insecure person. I wasn't overly sensitive because I'm just an unstable person emotionally. I was unhappy because of how I felt she treated me and our relationship. And while those things might not be justified in her eyes, they were in mine. And there's nothing more I could've done to keep her or make it work without becoming a person I disagree with or going against my own values in life and relationships. I only wish I had had the courage to face that conclusion long ago and saved myself this level of heartache.