Being overshadowed, and how to be the alpha?

[Dougie_D]

Ok.. I can't help what my guy friends look like. But I have lots of guy friends that are just ridiculously better looking than me. Some of my closer girl friends won't say it in front of me but they will say to another girl "OMG, his friend is so cute!" etc...

 

It kind of makes me feel bad at times, but I get it. The other night I went with my roommate and our other roommate (girl) to hang out with her friends. One girl bought our girl rooommate a drink and our guy roommate. Didn't even said a word to me, even though she clearly knew I was the other roommate. She was also being REALLY aggressive to my guy roommate where he felt uncomfortable.

 

There a lot of other scenarios like this, with my other guy friends.

 

I'm just wondering if you've been in a situation like this and how do you not feel bad about it? I can't just pick random friends that are probably not that good looking to hang with... there's even a movie about this for women. DUFF How can I make a good impression with women when I'm overshadowed specifically on looks and attractiveness? I believe I have a good personality, but it's hard to get a conversation with a girl when she makes it obvious she's into my friends.

[FirstIn]

Although I can't say any of my friends are good looking haha. Often I had wished they were so they would bring in the ladies and I could have my pick. I do know that feeling though, when there is another guy who seems better than you in every way and all the girls are drawn. I'm pretty short so I definitely feel it. He is taller, bigger and looks stronger, just because he is taller. Not much you can do about it actually. Girls have the same problem times a thousand! How many guys have stared at the pretty girl in the room with the cute face, tiny body and big B88bs. Soon you realise that girls who look too good are often lacking on the personality side. Unfortunately, they have relied on it so much they haven't worked on their other areas.

 

Contrasting all this. Look at hot celebrity girls. They are mostly dating average looking joes. Those guys have something you don't and it's not looks. Girls love confidence. You probably don't want the girl who swoons over the good looking guy as soon as he enters the room. She probably does that to all the guys and your potential relationship will be problematic. Be confident in who you are. Focus on your skill sets. Can you play an instrument? sing? talk about a topic which girls like? Keep your body looking as good as possible and fine tune your other assets. Then you will be one of those guys everyone sees with the pretty girl and they go "how does he always get the pretty girls?"

[agent1607307371]

Dougie, haven't you made posts specifically about how your personality is holding you back?

 

Why are you trying to talk to someone who is obviously into someone else? She's not into you. You're wasting your time. Find someone else to try and talk to.

[Batya33]

The problem is you are hanging around "girls" who say things like ""OMG, his friend is so cute!" etc...". Find places to meet mature women who wouldn't be caught dead with all that high school nonsense unless it's very occasional (i.e. a baby shower or bachelorette party).

 

Get out of the bars and clubs -find other things to do with your free time.

[LC8328]

So I have some experience with this, when I was much younger.

 

Was my best friend better-looking than me? Eh, depends on who you ask; obviously, it's a subjective thing. BUT...she was definitely (and remains to be to this day) more outgoing and talkative...therefore, she got a lot of attention.

 

So when we'd hang out with guys or groups of friends, I'd just be sitting there while everyone else talked, laughed, etc.

 

HOWEVER...the majority of the time...after a while...someone would always talk to me. Because I'm not a gifted talker, it's true that some of them would try talking to me, shrug, and then move on to talking to others. I have this weird thing where if someone in my group likes to talk, I let them, and I pretty much become furniture. Honestly, I have had the best luck in dating when I was by myself or with a group of friends that was more like me - introverted, because believe it or not, among them I was the one who was talkative. Different friends bring out different sides to you, so you might want to think about that.

 

(side note in regards to being introverted, as I'm not sure if this is of interest to you or not: I grew up pretty introverted and I realized when I was a little girl that some people viewed me as 'snobby' even though this wasn't my intention. So I tried showing I wasn't snobby by giving people genuine smiles when introduced to someone, and when someone eventually talked to me, I said what I wanted to say to them with less and less fear that it would sound stupid. I've learned to work with being introverted, being myself while pushing myself to be a little more outspoken when necessary.)

 

 

Also, IMO, I believe that if girls are going to not talk to you because your friends are supposedly more attractive physically...then those girls are of poor character.

[Dougie_D]

Dougie, haven't you made posts specifically about how your personality is holding you back?

 

Why are you trying to talk to someone who is obviously into someone else? She's not into you. You're wasting your time. Find someone else to try and talk to.

 

I don't try to talk to them when it gets to that point. I always end up leaving the group and hang by myself. And then they ask "where did you go?"

 

But on a side note: my guy roommate was defending me towards my girl roommate and friend about "approaching". You see, all these cute guy friends, they are scared as crap to approach...I think it's because they don't even have too...BUT, when my buddy goes "but you gotta give it to the little guy, he has some major balls to approach a group of girls and start a conversation. Doesn't that mean something to you girls?" and the girls had nothing to say.

 

Is that true? Do girls not care how gutsy it is for a guy to approach? Or do they think it's so easy? I feel like I do the hardest part. Most of my guy friends would never had hooked up with girls if it wasn't for me to even do the approach.

 

And once you strike a conversation, how is confidence judged by then? I know I lose track on how to steer the conversation but I try to change topics quickly, but how do you judge confidence when you are talking to someone?

[Batya33]

Once again if you want to date women, not girls and you don't just want to "hook up" then place yourself in environments where you don't have to approach a group of people or even one person most likely. If you are involved in an activity with a group of people that you are all enjoying and you are not in a loud/crowded place like a bar (some activities might get loud/crowded -certain sports, fitness classes, I guess) then there is no approach - you naturally socialize/mingle/talk and everyone figures out sooner or later whether they happen to connect or spark more with one person than another. Try to target specific singles activities or activities likely to attract lots of singles.

 

Some suggestions -salsa dancing lessons, yoga classes, working backstage at community theater, habitat for humanity or similar, hiking group, walking tours, photography classes.

 

I sense confidence (I don't "judge") by body language, eye contact, listening skills, how the person responds (defensively? comfortably? withdrawn? friendly?).

[agent1607307371]

Do girls not care how gutsy it is for a guy to approach?

 

No they don't. And if you don't want to talk to someone, they don't get points for approaching. You do what you want, but you aren't owed anything.

 

Also, I'd reconsider hanging around with people who refer to you as "the little guy" not to be obvious, but that doesn't sound like there's much respect there.

 

How old are these girls Dougie?

[ProtestTheHero]

The most fun I've had in the dating scene was when I had a "wingman" (crude, but there really isn't a better term) that was much better looking than me. He was also my roommate. The difference is that we were very good friends. We weren't competing against one another and we never spoke poorly of the other. I didn't begrudge him for his looks -- I can't ask the genetically gifted to apologize for something they can't control.

 

His attractiveness didn't prevent me from making a good impression. The difference between you and I is that I was not so attached to outcomes. If one girl only came over to talk to my friend then that was fine. It didn't bother me. We were there to have a good time and we played off of one another really well. It was easier for us to engage women when our energy was positive and it was easier for them to approach us when we were constantly laughing.

 

You're way, way too focused on winning over any woman instead of the right woman because you're perpetually concerned with your viability. I'm sure the women around you sense this insecurity and desperation. That's going to make traditional venues (bars, clubs, etc.) difficult for you, so the aforementioned suggestion to join groups is probably a better idea.

 

As for me, I don't care if any one woman likes me or not. All I can be is the best version of myself. If I've accomplished that and you want my friend then I'll give you his number. If you'd rather get to know me better then I'll give you mine. I know who I am and I know what I am. That doesn't change when my friend receives more fanfare.

 

And no, women don't care about how difficult it is to approach them. A lot of them couldn't even begin to estimate how much confidence that takes because they've never needed to be the one doing the approaching. In fact, sometimes women are internally horrified when guys they find unattractive approach them because THEY begin to question their viability -- IE, "Is this the kind of guy I attract now?"

 

If you're adept at reading body language then you can save yourself a lot of time. I can tell when a girl is interested and when she's wishing the conversation would come to a timely end. I politely bail on them before they do it in a less kind way whenever I'm feeling that vibe.

[Dougie_D]

I know when a girl is not vibing it. I like to think I can change her mind and it probably comes off desperate, but at that time it's like "I got nothing to lose".

 

Depending on my mood, I might be a jerk about it. Or about why she wasn't into me.

 

Honestly, I like to think it was a problem with me that I can fix than just a "she's just not attracted to you" . Because you can't determine that or fix that.

 

So I'm guessing I should never approach girls if that never gave them the sign I was confident. But it's a catch 22, because if I don't go up to a girl they would think I'm not sociable at all.

[Dougie_D]

No they don't. And if you don't want to talk to someone, they don't get points for approaching. You do what you want, but you aren't owed anything.

 

Also, I'd reconsider hanging around with people who refer to you as "the little guy" not to be obvious, but that doesn't sound like there's much respect there.

 

How old are these girls Dougie?

Most girls that were there at the bar were between 26-35???

[Batya33]

I gave you my suggestion and I think it will do a world of difference if you stop referring to women as "girls" even in your thoughts- it's not just semantics or a label - if you want a conversation leading to a potential relationship it has to start with a foundation of respect and thinking of adult women as girls or "girl roommate" is sabotaging that at some point to the extent you do it - everyone uses it once in awhile - and women friends to refer to each other but get out of that world where that is acceptable as a regular description and perception of an adult woman.

[agent1607307371]

I like to think I can change her mind and it probably comes off desperate,

 

It definitely comes off as desperate. You don't change anyone's mind you just let them know they were right.

[Dougie_D]

I gave you my suggestion and I think it will do a world of difference if you stop referring to women as "girls" even in your thoughts- it's not just semantics or a label - if you want a conversation leading to a potential relationship it has to start with a foundation of respect and thinking of adult women as girls or "girl roommate" is sabotaging that at some point to the extent you do it - everyone uses it once in awhile - and women friends to refer to each other but get out of that world where that is acceptable as a regular description and perception of an adult woman.

 

So eventually I'll have to call the person I'm in a relationship "my partner"? I can't call her my girlfriend? Or when I'm with her, I can't say "hey baby".

 

I mean, I get it. I am actually quite careful when I talk to women/girls. I don't like it when women/girls call me sir/man. It makes feel OLD. I rather be called a man than a boy, but a guy over a man.

 

Guys rarely use the word women around other guys. We never say "dang, these women are HOT!" No... we say "dang! these girls are so hot!"...

 

I am not trying to show any disrespect to girls/ladies/women whenever I use those references. So I apologize then.

[Batya33]

You are missing the point. The impression I get is that your main interaction with women is at bars/clubs and that you think of them as "girls" as a default. If you want to hook up with "girls" and use language like "dang these women are hot" then go to bars and hook up. That doesn't require relationship advice. If you're hung up on being an "alpha" male and finding a "hot" woman or girl then you're not ready for relationship advice or for a mature relationship. You can make a different choice though!

[Dougie_D]

You are missing the point. The impression I get is that your main interaction with women is at bars/clubs and that you think of them as "girls" as a default. If you want to hook up with "girls" and use language like "dang these women are hot" then go to bars and hook up. That doesn't require relationship advice. If you're hung up on being an "alpha" male and finding a "hot" woman or girl then you're not ready for relationship advice or for a mature relationship. You can make a different choice though!

 

I can't be looking for relationship advice. I'm looking to getting dates advice. Once I've got past like the 3rd date then it's safe to say I'm on the relationship path. I'm just looking to establish a date of some kind.

[Batya33]

I can't be looking for relationship advice. I'm looking to getting dates advice. Once I've got past like the 3rd date then it's safe to say I'm on the relationship path. I'm just looking to establish a date of some kind.

 

There's a difference between wanting a date just to have a date and having a longer term goal of finding someone to date where there is potential for a relationship. Decide what you want -far easier to do the former than the latter mostly because you then have a larger pool of women to choose from.

[Dougie_D]

There's a difference between wanting a date just to have a date and having a longer term goal of finding someone to date where there is potential for a relationship. Decide what you want -far easier to do the former than the latter mostly because you then have a larger pool of women to choose from.

 

I can see myself being in a relationship with a girl but I lack experience of what precisely I want or what it's like to be in one. I just know step 1 is the courting/dating of that potential someone. I'm not going to dump her if I am into her. It's the other way around and things never escalate for her to further our courtmanship

[Dougie_D]

Who dates just to date? The difference is people who date a lot of people at same time don't like committing to that person. I'm not in a position to decide I'm going to commit to a total stranger if that makes sense.

[Batya33]

Who dates just to date? The difference is people who date a lot of people at same time don't like committing to that person. I'm not in a position to decide I'm going to commit to a total stranger if that makes sense.

 

Of course people go on dates just to date -because it's fun to do the activities, because they want practice for the future, because it's fun, period. I dated many people at a time so that I could find one person to be exclusive with and hopefully marry. What you wrote does not make sense -not sure why you are referring to committing to a stranger. You clarified that you are looking to date so that in the future it might be a long term relationship.

 

I've given you several suggestions on how to go about meeting adult women where this whole "alpha" nonsense is just that -nonsense -and where you are not in the uncomfortable situation of having to "approach" a group of women because you are all socializing as part of the shared interest in the activity (activity other than drinking or hanging out at a bar). Take it or leave it.

 

And continue to ask friends and acquaintances to set you up on blind dates.

 

I think you are continuing to get in your own way and making problems out of situations that do not need to be problematic.

 

You do need to get very clear with yourself what you would like in a person in a romantic relationship. No experience necessary. Think about who you like as far as your friends, how much alone time you need, what activities you like, what your values are -write it down if necessary.

 

(If you want to date a "girl" who is fond of squealing "OMG he is sooooo cute" then I cannot provide any suggestions, sorry!).

[Dougie_D]

I have an ideal partner of course, but doesn't everybody have that mindset?

 

Of course I would like to date for fun. I'd like to date as much as possible to find someone to marry. I only average 1 or 2 dates every 3 years or so. If it was easy for me to get dates I wouldn't be on here as much.

 

And the funny thing is, I actually feel more comfortable approaching women at bars. I would be less confident trying to strike up a conversation at a hiking event. I wouldn't know what to say. "Great hike, right?"

[Batya33]

I have an ideal partner of course, but doesn't everybody have that mindset?

 

Of course I would like to date for fun. I'd like to date as much as possible to find someone to marry. I only average 1 or 2 dates every 3 years or so. If it was easy for me to get dates I wouldn't be on here as much.

 

And the funny thing is, I actually feel more comfortable approaching women at bars. I would be less confident trying to strike up a conversation at a hiking event. I wouldn't know what to say. "Great hike, right?"

 

If you are on a hike, in the fresh air, sober you can talk about almost anything - what you're seeing on the hike, other places you want to explore (or ask her), why she decided to participate (in a bar, that's boring "come here often?"), etc. It's also far more natural to socialize with people while you're doing a sports or fitness activity -everyone is in a better mood and not because of alcohol.

 

I don't think everyone has an ideal partner in mind. I had my list of musts -a short list -otherwise I was flexible.

 

I think you are getting in your own way and finding excuses to keep hanging out with "girls" at bars and taking the easy way out by complaining about your looks as compared to other peoples' looks.

[agent1607307371]

And the funny thing is, I actually feel more comfortable approaching women at bars.

 

And it's not working for you.

 

 

I would be less confident trying to strike up a conversation at a hiking event. I wouldn't know what to say. "Great hike, right?"

 

Yes, why not? Why would it be harder to talk about the hike than whatever it is you talk about at the bar? And if it's easier to talk to women at the bar because you've been drinking, then you're not more confident, just more buzzed.

[Rosti87]

 

And the funny thing is, I actually feel more comfortable approaching women at bars. I would be less confident trying to strike up a conversation at a hiking event. I wouldn't know what to say. "Great hike, right?"

 

Some of my most meaningful conversations were on hikes. Hiking is a great activity for not only getting exercise, but being able to have wonderful talks as you enjoy the outdoors. You run into a different type of person than the people you meet in bars. The mindset is in a totally different place and probably more positive that a bar. Particularly a bar in LA. Been there done that and have the bloody t-shirt.

[Dougie_D]

If you are on a hike, in the fresh air, sober you can talk about almost anything - what you're seeing on the hike, other places you want to explore (or ask her), why she decided to participate (in a bar, that's boring "come here often?"), etc. It's also far more natural to socialize with people while you're doing a sports or fitness activity -everyone is in a better mood and not because of alcohol.

 

I don't think everyone has an ideal partner in mind. I had my list of musts -a short list -otherwise I was flexible.

 

I think you are getting in your own way and finding excuses to keep hanging out with "girls" at bars and taking the easy way out by complaining about your looks as compared to other peoples' looks.

 

I'm the WORST mood doing some type of physical activity with "groups" I actually walk everywhere when I can. But I do it on my own pace, if that makes sense. I went with a hike/trail with my sister and brother in law. They were up front and I was in back just trying to keep up. Plus, most sporty people are naturally competitive. I already know that I'm going to be judged by my weight. I've always been picked last for sport teams. Actually I was kind of upset about my roommate but didn't tell her. She's really a big sporty person. Does crossfit, soccer, co-ed stuff. Anyways, she asked my other roommate he needed to play on her kickball team. Just because I'm overweight she assumed I wouldn't have been at least interested.

BUT - I don't mind doing hikes with someone who I already know who is cool with my pace. There was a coworker that gave me rides home and she and I would do a 20 minute walk together. But obviously it was just friendly walks where I was basically someone she needed to talk to about her guy problems.