What do you consider to be a first move?

[corvidae]

This is really a question for the ladies (though guys views are always welcome). I've read in a couple of articles that some people consider that the initial smile/wink/signal a women will give a man in order to encourage him to approach is the 'first move'. I also know a few women who hold this view. I find that an interesting notion. Do you women, when in a bar or other social setting, and you see a man you like the look of and give him some sort of signal, consider that you have 'made the first move'? My argument would be that that is not the first move, but is an invitation for the man to make the first move. After all, we give off signals all the time, but they can often be ambiguous and subtle, and it's really only on approaching and talking to someone that the our intention becomes 100% clear, and with that clarification comes the possibility of rejection. Before that moment there is only hinting and suggestion, thereforeeee no risk and no chance of rejection. I have smiled at lots of people when out, but would never consider that I had 'made the first move'. What do people think? I'd like to hear some counter arguments to see things from others people's perspectives, or do you agree with me?

[Beec]

My gf would agree with you. She has real issues with the idea that she did anything first. On the weekend we met, nothing happened but I knew by how she looked at me and made eye contact that a move by me would be well-received. It's nothing she did consciously, but I could read her body language. She still wants my move to be the first one, and to her what you describe is not a move at all.

[Andy223]

I found that girls who smile at you consistantly, tend to have good intensions. If it is a one off smile, then you could miss interpret it. If a girl consistantly smiles at you a lot in the same way from a distance, its her way of saying "please come over, i may like to get to know you" The risk is going up to a girl who has not given you any signals, this is where you are more likley to get rejected. Its funny though, cos im more confident with approaching a girl who hasnt givin me any signals. This may be because I feel that I have nothing to loose. Where as i feel fear in approaching a girl who has an interest in me, because i may feel that i will loose her interest in me.

Girls are very natural at smiling. It makes them look very attractive and approachable. As soon as you start to talk to the girl... you will realise whether she is right for you. You will automatically speak and make yourself look and sound desirable, thats human nature. The only way, you will put off a women, is by not approaching her. 9 times out of 10, if you approach a women who has given you good signals... you will be able to have a decent conversation with her. Its just getting to that stage, which is the problem. You need to go with the flow, as they say....

[Kyoshiro Ogari]

What if they look at you a lot but they never smiled. Like if you look at them and they're looking at you, but they always look away and they never ever smile? Does she like you, or is she trying to figure out if you like her?

[spaggle]

WELL I WOULDN'T JUST RANDOMLY WINK AT A GUY IT WOULD BE AN INVITATION, OR A HEY I LIKE YOU KINDA MOVE. (oops soz didnt mean to do tht in capitals! lol) but i wouldn't calss the wink as a first move coz its not anything major, coz obviously not something tht say hey do u wanna go out, tht to me wud b the first move. yeh think ur right the wink is just an invitation

[CptKipling]

Girls ALWAYS make the first move.

 

There are certain signals that girls give out that envite you to talk to them or make a move, if a man doesn't get these signals then he might as well not excist. The girl ALWAYS decides if there is going to be a flirty interaction (assuming the guy is looking for one). You can make all the moves you want, but until you get those signals (smiling, turning towards you, eye contact with another signal such as a smile, flipping her hair, exposing her neck, etc.) you are wasting your time.

[corvidae]

The question isn't whether girls send signals, but whether these constitute the first move. I would still say that these signals merely signify that should a man decide to make a move, then he is less likely to be rejected. We all, men and women, send of signals either consciously or subconsciously, and if a women smiles at a man but he has decided prior to that he is not interested, then he will not approach. A signal from a woman will not compel a man to approach, thereforeeee some other process has to have occurred prior to this to make the man want to approach. The initial signals are very simple gestures that are just invitations for a move to be made. Let me use an analogy as I am currently applying for jobs: a signal is a bit like a company advertising that it is recruiting by sending you an e-mail, but it is still up to you to fill in the application form, go to the interview. The worry, stress and effort is still yours to bear. Yes, the company wants good people, but the real pressure, the fear of rejection, is yours and yours alone. I think that's important, the first move, the 'real' first move, I think, should be the point where rejection is a possibility. You cannot be rejected if you only send signals. So a woman likes a man and smiles at him, he smiles back. So what? Or how about a man smiles at a woman and she smiles back? Again, so what? I smile at people all the time, I never feel I've 'made a move'. The first move, to me, means the moment when all doubt is removed, effort is made, and the possibility of rejection is real. This occurs when one person approaches the other. Not before.

[Beec]

It all really depends on what is a "move" doesn't it?

 

I was once berated in high school for not asking a girl to something after we had made eyes at each other in class for a couple weeks. (If I knew how good a signal I was getting I would have, I just didn't know body language enough to rely on it.) Her friend who berated me obviously thought there were moves going on.

 

When I have met a woman at a bar or a party, and we begin to just talk, and then exchange more signals (she touches my arm, our faces come closer together, our knees touch and retouch then stay in contact and press), but no one ever make an express statement of interest, is that a move?

 

When our hands begin to bump and rebump, then stay in contact, is that a move? Or do I actually have to make so we begin to hold hands, even though by then, I know it is a forgone conclusion, provided the timing is right?

[CptKipling]

I think the point is that both sexes know that a woman has to do far less to get a man focussed on her. These "initial signals" are IMO a first move.

[eagles04]

When i like a guy, i tend to get as much info on him as i can, by going up to them and start a conv. asking what they like and dont like or by reading their profiles online and start from their. I think that the guys that i like dont like me back , because i think that they are intimidated by me. Iam diff from other girls, not that good looking and i have a speach problem so its hard. i always approach guys it dont matter if i like them or not. iam always free so that if they did want to come & talk to me they can, but they dont , the guys always tend to smile , wink and look my way so i do look for the signs , this one kid i still like , i told him in the fall during school , know when i say hi to him he always has a big smile on him , i still dont know if he likes me back , hes busy alot only comes to school on t and th, he dont approach me i approach him and try to get more info each time i talk to him but when i do come over & talk to him , i have to start the conv. when we dont have any thing to say for a min or so we just sit and look at some thing else. i just dont know what to do . i also like some one else but dont know how to go about it. so far i only went up to him twice , one for some $ ( i gave it back to him it was only 20 cents) the other was to ask if he had a partner for class ( this new kid is in one of my classes, last fall i had seen him making eye contact w/ me and he still does it, hes w/ these kids that i dont know)

[corvidae]

Fair enough. Perhaps it is a matter of personal interpretation. The reason I don't like it when people say women make the first move, and then cite these little signals, is because I think it takes a lot away from the man's effort. Us men make 90% of the effort here, so it seems wrong to detract from that by making it sound less than it is.

[CptKipling]

Yeah I think it just comes down to your interpretation of a "move". I don't dissagree with anything you wrote apart from that.