Breadcrumbs, or Opportunity?

[sharky988]

Wow! This whole line of thinking has left me speechless!

 

Agreed. Really disturbing.

[dumPI]

I didnt read more of the thread yet but I was in this kind of situation a month ago and I sent an email which looked like yours. What she did? Telling me that she knows now that we can't be friends (at least she can't ... was her words), and that we love each other but she can't take more steps in our relationship, and asking me for NC for an undefined time (she forgot to mention she's probably having feelings for a new guy).

 

So don't push her any longer. The best solution, believe it or not, is NC or maybe in your case NIC (and forget about answers longer than 3 to 5 words). Pull as crazy!

[junebug123]

Agreed. Really disturbing.

 

It's just a metaphor and people do act like children all the time. It is said that we retain memories from every age, so it s very possible to digress to the behavior of when you were 2 or 3. I love how you find this line of thinking so shocking yet you never have observed someone acting immature or childish in your entire life? Funny how some people are so emotionally evolved but can't manage to think outside the box. If you understood the context for this analogy then i don't think it would be a big deal and actually i don't know why i am justifying myself now. Either way i stand by what i said and i am not saying that men don't act like kids either, really my point was to describe the push/pull factor.

[einsteins_girl]

It's just a metaphor and people do act like children all the time. It is said that we retain memories from every age, so it s very possible to digress to the behavior of when you were 2 or 3. I love how you find this line of thinking so shocking yet you never have observed someone acting immature or childish in your entire life? Funny how some people are so emotionally evolved but can't manage to think outside the box. If you understood the context for this analogy then i don't think it would be a big deal and actually i don't know why i am justifying myself now. Either way i stand by what i said and i am not saying that men don't act like kids either, really my point was to describe the push/pull factor.

 

Well, it was quite a generalization. As a woman, I can tell you that, in my last relationship, I was with my boyfriend for six years, and I never felt attracted to anyone else or felt bored with him or wished for something new or different. And, believe me, he did a lot of pushing away and being standoffish. Guess what? I got sick of the indifference and ended things. There is no magic formula / "metaphor" for relationships.

[sharky988]

It's just a metaphor and people do act like children all the time. It is said that we retain memories from every age, so it s very possible to digress to the behavior of when you were 2 or 3. I love how you find this line of thinking so shocking yet you never have observed someone acting immature or childish in your entire life? Funny how some people are so emotionally evolved but can't manage to think outside the box. If you understood the context for this analogy then i don't think it would be a big deal and actually i don't know why i am justifying myself now. Either way i stand by what i said and i am not saying that men don't act like kids either, really my point was to describe the push/pull factor.

 

There's no need to bash genders on this board. We're all here to help each other. And no -- I didn't find it "shocking," just insensitive.

[junebug123]

There's no need to bash genders on this board. We're all here to help each other. And no -- I didn't find it "shocking," just insensitive.

 

sorry it was intended for the OP didn't think others reading it would take offense, know i now.

[sharky988]

sorry it was intended for the OP didn't think others reading it would take offense, know i now.

 

No worries.

[Chalk]

It could be a overture or it could be tying up loose ends. I suspect the latter but in any event you should not assume she wants to get back together. Your response left the door open for her, see if she will come through it. But don't live your life hoping she will. Continue to move on, date other people and deal with what happens if and when it happens, not before.

 

I think this is pretty sound advice...you've left the door open...continue learning about yourself. I'm also a problem solving kinda gal but have come to the conclusion that most of my ephineys have been made by me & my own mistakes. With that in mind, I've also left the door open but am gonna leave my ex to work out his own life issues. I'm not talking to him as a friend because it hurts me & prevents me from moving forward. I try to think I'm 'strong' for doing this but it still hurts like hell: keep picturing him being free & happy without me:s

 

Delacrank -> woman & toys....only a MAN would say such things!! Lol!

[Autumnleaves]

I can actually see this from your ex's point of view.

 

I too was forced into ending the relationship because of his unreasonable behaviour. We were engaged and had been together for nearly 5 years. I didn't walk away because I didn't love him or because I wanted to experience other things I walked because I couldn't put up with being an option that he could take or leave. I didn't feel as if he really loved me or really wanted me in his life, his mouth was saying yes he did, but his actions were saying I couldn't care less. When I ended the relationship & he agreed & went NC it only reinforced my beliefs that I had done the right thing. There has been some communication but it's only been more mind games, which pushed me even further away.

 

My ex is in denial of the part he played in the breakdown of the relationship. In his mind it was all my fault & he is the poor wee victim. I would rather be single than be with a man who can't or won't admit to having faults. The fact that you are able to see where you went wrong & the part you played in pushing her away is good. You need to be able to recognise these issues before you can work on them.

 

You may have already tried. but my advise is to tell her what you've said here. Tell her that you can see why she felt the need to walk away, admit to her your faults & the part you played in the breakdown of the relationship. Tell her that you love her & would like to try again & that you'll respect whatever her decision may be. If she doesn't want to try again then ask her to respect your feelings & go NC so that you are able to heal & move on.

[eastonweston]

I know what you mean, Delacrank. I think the only line in this metaphor that is drawing criticisms is: "I have found that women are like children." I think in reality, ALL of us act like children, in the sense that we react based on emotion, not logic, much of the time.

 

I appreciate the sentiment and I understand exactly your point. If I am always around, always being available, then some of the mystery is gone, and I allow myself to be taken for granted. Just as Sharky said, I need to allow her to MISS not having me around.

 

Thank you.

[eastonweston]

Based on the advice I've received, and my own feelings on the situation, I just see how it'd be a good move for me to ignore a random email from my ex which exposes herself, admits vulnerabilities, and shows communicative maturity on her part. We're two adults, I can't justify simply ignoring her heartfelt, vulnerable email. I think NC is an amazing technique right after the break up to let the immediate emotions die down, but after four months apart? I think it's time to slowly give a little from both sides, cautiously.

 

Remember, I am not rushing to her, I am NEVER initiating contact. It's all her. My response was still calm, deliberate, and yes, honest. But I didn't beg, plead, tell her I miss her, etc. I simply thanked her for her honesty, and told her I will help her if she's having trouble at the moment. At some point, there will be a window of her slowly trying to ease back into my life, and I can't shut that out by going blanket NC to every form of communication from her.

 

I doubt she will EVER say outright, "Easton, I made a big mistake, can we get back together?" I don't know that's really ever how reconciliations happen. She still has pride, too. She'll slowly test the waters by exposing herself a little a time and see how I react. Especially given my neglectful behavior during the relationship.

 

I stick by my email reply Okay, maybe I shouldn't have said "My love for you is 100% unconditional, I love you." That may have been too strong, and it may have made her take a step back (clingy!). But that was the only offense, imo.

 

Thanks for the advice! You all are really great.

[Shane Falco]

I think it's fine to answer her back and not ignore her, but don't be an emotional crutch. If you want to provide some help, fine, but don't say "I'll help you whenever you have trouble" even if you will. Your help itself says that without seeming to be overeager. You want to match her contact and let her lead you back -- you don't want to jump ahead a step. By saying "I will help you if you are having trouble" you are jumping ahead. Respond and match, but don't press or be overeager.

[eastonweston]

I think it's fine to answer her back and not ignore her, but don't be an emotional crutch. If you want to provide some help, fine, but don't say "I'll help you whenever you have trouble" even if you will. Your help itself says that without seeming to be overeager. You want to match her contact and let her lead you back -- you don't want to jump ahead a step. By saying "I will help you if you are having trouble" you are jumping ahead. Respond and match, but don't press or be overeager.

 

Perfect, thanks Shane.

[Shane Falco]

Perfect, thanks Shane.

 

No prob. Also don't be overly available. Don't be rude and ignore, but don't drop whatever you are doing completely to communicate with her. Not saying you are doing that, but let her wonder and wait a bit sometimes.

[Tom1990]

I wouldn't worry too much about that last line of unconditional support. It might have been a bit clingy, or it might have been exactly what she needed to hear at that moment to get through the rest of her day. Either way, it'll fade in time, and the effect in the long run will be pretty insignificant. What matters most is what you do next; take care of you.

[markie6]

Well I think I have mentioned in previous replies to you , it does depend on how bad you were to her, whether she is trying to teach you a lesson , whether you are learning it and also lastly she could be attempting to see if you have changed for the better.

 

Now , it could be a mixture of most of those. It's very hard sometimes to give up on somebody you deep down care a lot about, forced dumpers feel a lot like dumpees ( often not always ) but the roles can change in these sorts of situations.

 

Now when we know we have messed up , we need to work out what we need to change , that means having a good idea of exactly why we are in this situation, whether we can or should change.. and whether those changes will have to outcome we want.

 

Far too often, people have got complacent in rs ... when this is highlighted.. often we are shocked at first, it's only later after a period of reflection do we see it. Now everybody sees their situation as unique, but the simple fact remains that those who want their ex's back , do need to change but those changes should only be for you, not for some goal to entice the ex back as there is no guarantee of that ever happening

 

I'd suggest replying, but give it some real thought first. She is in total control of the situation , how you react , when you react .. all those variables have a bearing on everything. People reach out and test the waters , they can use whatever reply to assertain whether they were correct to dump , to work out whether you have changed ... or because it's damn hard to let somebody go, who was an important part of your life.

 

Now people will say automatically here..being clingy... is bad. If you had been dumped for not showing enough affection etc..then that wouldn't be the case. If you had never been there when she wanted you to be ... etc etc ..all your previous faults... whatever they were are what brought you to this place. These are the things you must work on

 

So since the BU ... what have you sorted out that needs changing ( in your opinion) ..? Anything that she highlighted .. that you have been working on ? It could be this is what is going through her mind when she texts / calls and if you have been lazy , not analyzed your faults ... or worked on them at all ... then I suggest you get started asap

[eastonweston]

Markie -- did you see that I already replied?

[markie6]

Yes , but what's done is done. Don't forget there will be others reading your story, hoping for guidance, hope or ways not to do things.. or indeed ways to do things

 

The reply is a reaction , where most people fail, they fail to give it real thought before acting. It's perfectly normal. As to anybody who chimes in with... you were wrong to word it a certain way... well it's very specific to the individual and to be honest it's something a lot of us have done. I wouldn't worry about the wording now, not as of she can say you didn't care etc

 

Now why I wrote all that is because it may not be the last time you have to think before replying , or indeed formulate your plan. There is no secret formula , it's play it by ear depending on the uniqueness of your situation at that time.

 

I don't see you damaged yourself too much , given you didn't treat her as well as you now wish you had, showing a little emotion ... well hardly going to make you seem uncaring, which is something we never want to be seen as. Aloof a little maybe, but not cold or emotionless.

 

If you get another message, try to not react automatically, it's not as if we have the scripted reply for every occasion, but give it a lot more thought. Far better gauging opinion here, than risk messing it up by acting instinctively .. and risk doing more harm than good.

 

Have you been sorting yourself out ? Or has that been put on the backburner ? The risk a lot of people take, is not understanding where they went wrong and adopt a take it or leave it approach. Make sure if ever there comes a time where an opportunity arises, where she wants to see positive results.. there are real ones to show , not a load of stories. You know you have plenty to sort out, while it cannot be all about her, it will benefit you in the long run.

Markie -- did you see that I already replied?

[eastonweston]

Thanks, Markie.

 

Which part about my message do you feel was maybe not the optimal response? I agree that it was a reaction, although I waited about 8 hours to respond. In my opinion, my response was actually quite short, not reeking of desperation; I simply thanked her, affirmed that I've made changes and that we've been through a lot since she started that journal entry three years ago, and that if she really needs help, I love her enough to do what I can. I was calm, stable, and confident. Keep in mind, I spent every waking moment with this girl for five years, with engagement two months away. I was very angry at her near the end. So I cannot ignore her vulnerable email expressing that she feels bad for asking me for help, but 'things are obviously rough and I still need help...".

 

Can you do this? Could you re-read her email to me, and then propose a better response; craft what you feel the perfect response would have been so the 1000+ readers of this post can learn what to do in a similar situation.

 

As far as sorting myself out over the past four months..

 

Here are the reasons she's listed as leaving me, and my working on those issues:

 

1. Anger issues: I've been in weekly counseling for 16 weeks now

2. Stopped socializing: I've made more friends in 4 months than I did in 2 years. I've organized many events for all of our mutual friends (which she attends)

3. Stopped 'living': I've enrolled in boxing lessons, rock climbing lessons, play weekly basketball with neighborhood guys, kayak'ing, and volunteer work (all accross the four months)

4. Smothered her (jealousy, forced her to spend all time with me) I've completely backed off from contacting her for two months now, and see points 2 and 3.

 

There are a few others, but this is getting long. The point is, I have been focusing intently for the past four months on improving myself and all of the faults she listed. And yes, these have genuinely been for me, because I agree with her on all the points she made. I actually don't disagree with the breakup. Based on the way I was acting, she does deserve better. She actually stuck with me for a long time even when I wasn't being the best boyfriend. And so whether her and I get back together, or someone new comes into my life, I need to make these changes so that I can be a better boyfriend/husband and feel better about myself as well.

 

And as you can see in her email to me, she knows that I have made changes; she tells me that she can see them. On my birthday 2 months ago, she gave me a card in which she wrote that she is "so very proud of me" for the changes I've made. This is why she said she cried on Thursday when reading her journal entry from 2009 because the changes she wished for me then, are happening now. And about a month after our breakup, we went out to dinner with her and her friend who was in town, and her friend was asking how I've been and what I've been up to. So I told them both all about my new job, my new friends, my new activities, my counseling, etc. And the ex started crying at the table! Later, she told me she's crying because 1. she's so happy to see that I'm changing, but 2. because she's sad and upset that I waited until now to make these changes, and not while we were together and she was saying that I needed to make them then.

 

So, I've made genuine changes (and it's obviously still a process; 4 months isn't really that long), and she sees those changes. But we're still not getting back together. As you saw in my OP, a month ago her and I discussed 'closing the book' on our relationship and starting fresh and new in the future if that opportunity presents itself one day. Honestly, four months isn't that long of a time apart, and I'm not even sure I would want us to get back together this quickly. I feel like I'm on the brink of big, big changes, and I need at least another 4-6 months to make sure they take effect. And I think she knows that too. Granted, she tells me the problem is that over the years of fighting, she's lost all attraction to me. Not necessarily physical attraction, but emotional attraction. She looks at me and sees 'fighting and anger' and it kills attraction. So I understand that only time can wash that away; space & time away from me will allow the good memories to come through and the bad memories to fade; coupled with overwriting the bad memories with new, GOOD memories when I see her now.

 

The biggest unknown between us right now is: how much time will need to pass for the old relationship to wash away, for her to begin to miss me, and for my changes to take stick.

 

I am a BIG believer now in being broken up for at least 6 months. When I first read that from someone else, it was the worst feeling, because I had only been broken up for 3 weeks. I thought: "6 months!! No way I can last that long!" Now that it's been 4 months since the split, I see it now, and I honestly think a year apart may be best. Of course fate - or luck - will have to be on our side, for neither of us to have met someone else in that time apart. But that's life.

[markie6]

That's good that you have taken the right steps and for basicaly the right reasons. Nobody wants to hear 6 months to a year when they have been hit with the bad news... it happens to loads of us. First off we cannot see the wood for the trees , then as we start to puzzle through it we start to gain the clarity that we see a lot of people talk about.

 

As for a response , I would have responded, hard not to especially as you sensed she wanted you to, but never go overboard on the emotion, she knows very well you want her back. Sometimes people do need time apart to grow, it sucks when you first hear it and don't want it. Far too often people have to be held up at gunpoint (staring down the breakup barrel ) before they start to see how compacent they were or that they didn't realise how lucky they were. Often talked about here... absence makes the heart grow fonder ( firm believer in this.. if it's the real thing) and you don't know what you had til it's gone .. very true sayings for a reason.

 

You seem to be aware that having all your eggs in one basket ( reconcilliation ) is unwise as nobody can predict the future. Working on you.. shouldn't be the normal lists of things that we see too often.. going down the gym ( because you got lazy with your image ) or going on dates to make yourself feel attractive. Those sorts of things can help the ego, but that doesn't neccesarily mean the ex didn't like you as you were etc. People do take us faults and all most times we are in love. However it can tip too far , too many arguments and they are corosive to a relationship, it's a trial run on a proper breakup.

 

As for more correspondence, .. remember she knows what you want, she can see you are making changes.. never risk ruining that by showing her the old you is still there lurking ( I hope for your sake he is under control) and never get frustrated as that leads to anger and confrontation. I sensed early on with your posts that you were suffering due to the lack of control you had, that maybe you're used to being in control and perhaps now you sense the truth, she is holding all the cards and the only way you have to come out of this with what you want is to take onboard what she didn't like and return to the old you, the one she fell for.

 

Just bear in mind again what I said earlier, it has to be for you , it will help you moving forward with or without her. We all hope you end up with what you want and happily back together. Now many dumpers here will testify, that we will get annoyed , being pestered by somebody who we no longer want to share our lives with. You do seem to have your head screwed on better now , so don't push communications laced with emotion, keep them funny and to the point, let her lead and give more thought to what you write.. before you reply.

 

Keep up the good work and don't fall back into your old ways, that person needs to be gone and any attempt by him to show his face and it will set you back

[eastonweston]

Thanks, Markie. I think the 'bad' me is definitely going away fully. It will still be some time from now, but I can feel the changes taking place.

 

Based on my prior posts, and the current situation between my ex and I after 4 months, do you suspect there's still a chance here?

[markie6]

Nobody can give you that answer ... this is the question we all hope will be answered in the afirmative, probably even your ex couldn't answer that now...

Thanks, Markie. I think the 'bad' me is definitely going away fully. It will still be some time from now, but I can feel the changes taking place.

 

Based on my prior posts, and the current situation between my ex and I after 4 months, do you suspect there's still a chance here?

[eastonweston]

probably even your ex couldn't answer that now...

 

Spot on. Wise words.

[eastonweston]

We sometimes forget that love is an emotion, and those feelings can't be predicted. They can change from one moment to the next.

[eastonweston]

It could be a overture or it could be tying up loose ends. I suspect the latter...

 

DN -- after taking two days to reflect on her email, I've come to the conclusion, sadly, that this is a closure email. It was a way for her to ease her own guilt, let me know that she's been praying for my changes for three years now, and that's it's bittersweet how it all ended.

 

Sigh.