Confusing Ex, Getting Back Together or Not

[eastonweston]

I've been snooping around these forums, taking all of the advice in. Finally, I can't take it anymore, I need to get out my story and see if there's some advice for me. I'm a businessman, so I'll keep this short, crisp, and to-the-point.

 

• She's 29, I am 28. We live in NYC.

▪ Together for 5 years. Very serious, committed, hung out every single day.

▪ I became comfortable, lazy, clingy, no friends, no activities, controlling, jealous, angry

▪ I went away for three weeks (first time that long apart in five years)

▪ She had time to think and journal and process, decided she was less stressed with me gone, didn't miss me much.

▪ She broke up with me due to this epiphany.

▪ We've been broken up for 2.5 months now.

 

Here's where my confusion comes in. Yes, I know all about NC, LC, NIC, ABCD. I did the pleading, begging thing for two weeks (this was pre-eNA, people, don't judge!). Finally Google'd some things, eNA has killer SEO, so I came accross some NC posts. Thought it made sense. Haven't implemented it, was doing LC with me contacting, then switched to NIC with short replies about two weeks ago.

 

The confusing parts (remember, 2.5 months since break up at this point):

 

• She tells me she knows I am physically attractive, but isn't attracted to me, no spark anymore.

• She says it's because of the pain, the anger, the stressing her out, the jealousy, the neediness. It turned her off, she can't get it back.

• She tells me that she needs us to be "friends." I say "i can't do that." she says, "friends, for now." Always emphasizes "for now."

• She says (three weeks after BU): "it'll be a while - 6 to 8 months before I can even consider us getting back together, no guarantee"

• She says there are changes I need to make (counseling for my anger, getting friends back, living life, letting her live hers)

• She says that she doesn't want to give me false hope, but she doesn't know what the future holds. Says not to hold on to hope.

• She says I need to make changes for me, not for her.

• She has yet mentioned exchanging keys back to each others' apartments (we live a block away).

• She is still sharing her personal Google calendar with me - yes, her personal calendar of plans, she knows I can see it.

• She can still see my Google calendar.

• She said she'd like to catch up every two weeks and discuss changes, life news

• She says it'll be at least a year or two before she's interested in dating someone else, and said that should "give me hope." (***).

• She accepted my invites to go to a Cirque du Soleil show, later a movie, later kayak'ing -- but acted distant. No touching.

• She still tells me she loves me. "I still do love you." Almost every time we hang out.

• Gave me a birthday gift (a week ago), with a card telling me how she sees all the changes and knows I will do BIG things in life.

• Ended the card with "i do love you very, very, very much."

• We went out one night, got into a big fight. She says I'm not showing her any change. I said you're crazy, I've done many changes.

• She says "yes, but the one thing I need you to stop doing is fighting with me, and you're still doing it. you haven't changed."

• In addition to not exchanging apartment keys, she still has pictures of us up on her apartment wall (saw it five nights ago).

• Still Facebook friends, she still "likes" my posts every once in a while.

• Three nights ago we serendipitously ran into each other. Hung out for four hours, talking, catching up. Had a good night.

• At the end of the night, she said "I'm just scared." I ask why. She says "because I just can't do this yet." I drop it. Next topic.

• Left with a little hug. Haven't spoken in 5 days, no contact.

• We see each other about once every two weeks, sometimes twice.

• She knows that I was planning to propose to her three months after she broke up with me (she always said she didn't think i'd commit)

• One time she got tired, slipped with: "i don't know how to do this: if i give too much hope, you won't change, if I go too cold, you'll give up."

 

Question: what does this all mean? This seems to be a little more than simply 'keeping tabs' on me to cushion her own fall. It genuinely seems to me that she is stepping back and letting me fix a lot of issues about me that transpired (the anger, the laziness, not having my own life, etc.). Is this only wishful thinking in my mind, or do these seem to be signs that go above and beyond the normal ex's behavior from other people in this forum?

 

ANY insight is extremely welcomed. Okay, I lied. That wasn't short. Crisp outline, not short. My bad!

 

Thanks,

 

Easton

[lovecash]

Hey man,

 

Your situation sounds eerily similar to mine. Me and the ex are both 24, live on the same block in NYC, dated for 4.5 years. It seems my gf broke up with me for same reasons, got comfortable and lazy In my situation, she flat out broke up with me and wants to explore feelings with a coworker. We have been strict NC for a month so far (other than the times I run into her on the street which suck balls).

 

It seems to me like your gf is giving you an ultimatum right now. She wants you to take a look at yourself and really change and evolve as a person. In just the month of NC I have had, I have had some real time for introspection and have been able to really work on myself and not have to think about pleasing someone else. I think this is exactly what you need to do. You need time to take a break from her and use it to improve yourself both physically, mentally, and emotionally. This will also give you time to think about your gf and see if she is what you really want for the rest of your life, or if you are omitting to her because she is just the only one there.

 

I think you guys need to go STRICT NO CONTACT. Sharing a Google calendar and seeing each other all the time does not give you the space you need to really evaluate your life and make positive changes. It seems she wants to 'keep tabs' on you so she can monitor your progress, but with her doing this you will not be allowed to change. The time apart from her will let you see that there is a life without her and will make you much less needy.

 

So my advice to you is approach her and say you want a serious break on those terms, strict NC for at least a month, maybe longer. After that point you will have a much better understanding on the dynamics of the relationship and yourself, and you can really make a better decision about your future.

[eastonweston]

Hey lovecash, really sorry to hear about your story. Yep, sounds very similar to my own, except the coworker thing. Funny- I always had ill feelings about her talking about her colleagues, she couldn't understand why. I said "um, do you know how many affairs start by spending 9 hours a day, every day, around other men in a closed environment?" It didn't happen in my case, but obviously in yours. So sorry, man. 4.5 years? I know the feeling. And running into her on the street in NYC makes ball sucking seem like child's play. I hate that.

 

You speak words of wisdom. I do think NC for a couple of months, maybe longer (remember, she said "it'll take 6-8 months for me to reevaluate this" and she means to rid herself of the bitterness of the past"). I guess I can't seem to kick start NC because of all of these 'incredible' signs. "I can't do this yet..." ... "we have to be friends, for now." But I think she'd respect it more if I am mature about this, tell her I agree with the breakup, that I need some space for myself to make some improvements, let's not communicate, and maybe in a couple of months, maybe a few, we'll connect and see what happens.

 

I think you're spot on, I just needed someone else's perspective to make sure I wasn't way off base.

 

You're absolutely right about the Google calendar; I think she sees it as a way to see my changes, my plans each evening. Is this healthy? No. But it's like everything is just frozen -- still FB friends, Google cal, apartment keys, pictures on the wall. She hasn't done really anything different with these 'accessories' between us. That gives me the biggest false hope in the world. Unless it's not false...

 

Either way, I hear you. I go NC, I focus on myself without her influence. I like it.

 

You say you've been NC for a month -- when did you two break up?

 

E.

[lovecash]

We broke up a month ago, hence the NC for a month. I know she didn't get physically involved with this d-bag she works with until we were done, so that makes me feel slightly less horrible. She's all mentally messed up tho, was on anti depressants for three years for anxiety then stopped taking them right before the breakup without talking to her doctor. I can't really complain about being single and 24 in NYC tho....

 

The fact that she has all the pictures and stuff still up I do think is real hope. However, the power move to make is to go complete NC and show her you mature you can be. After the 3-6 months or however long it is, she will not be able to live without you. Just make sure you hammer it into her that she cannot contact you or see you, it cannot be half assed on either of your part.

 

On a side note:

 

What do you do for a living in NYC? Im not trying to be a weirdo, just been trying to network like a fiend these days.

[eastonweston]

I live at 17 W Broadway St.., apt. 2B. My social is: 255-923-8663. Weirdo.

 

Kidding. The above data is fake, suckers.

 

Send me a PM, I'll tell you what I do for a living.

 

E.

[eastonweston]

Anyone else? Thoughts?

[unanimous123]

I know what it feels to be exactly in your shoes, man...because more or less, we have the same situation. Except, gf and I are still in our first year and a few months in it and wel live together. My gf had requested for a break not a month ago, and she pretty much said some of the things you said... especially about me needing to change my behavior. Although we were on a break (for less than a week), I can see that she still really care and not much has really changed as far as our habit goes; that said, we are still very loving to each other, do stuff, laugh together, etc. except that one time where she was really distant and acted all drunk from partying with friends. Knowing her, I can tell that she was very sad and the break did more harm than good (she was puking drunk but good thing our friends were there to look after her while I wasn't-she was demanding for a little space after all) After the initial high, I talked to her in what I hope was a logical manner and identified the real issues, though I breakdown every now and then but never begged(as this will only prove that you are clingy and can't live without them which is exactly what she hates), we both decided that we can't bear to see each other sad and decide to give it another go...with me promising to change since I have always been the one who started the fights anyway.

 

So far, things are good. In addition,my girlfriend has a habit of breaking up when she's mad. We also resolved that things can be communicated properly instead of wanting to break up right away. Thing is, girls can be bottling up all the anger inside and if not communicated, they might blow up and go further than needed. I say that since she requested to be in contact(friends for now), you can really show her that you have changed. You know your girlfriend and you alone would know how to do that and get back to her heart. Keep things light at first (so you won't end up fighting again and again), and be really really patient. Good luck, man. It's tough, I know...but hang in there if you think she's worth it.

[eastonweston]

Thanks, unanimous123.

 

It does sound like our situations are similar; even though you live together and we do not, the wording and intent behind seem the same. You were better than me, however, because I begged and pleaded for the first few weeks. I hope you continue with your changes. As you're aware, getting back together quickly after breaking apart due to specific reasons can be risky, because has the change really taken place? Hopefully you stick with it. I think you will.

 

Yes, typically it seems that females throw out little hints about how they're feeling but guys don't get the hint. So my ex bottled up these feelings for many months until she couldn't take it anymore. And the problem was, I kept reinforcing her forthcoming decision to leave because I kept doing the same things over and over without knowing I needed to change. Finally, BOOM, she lays it on me that we're done. Doesn't' seem fair, but neither is the way I treated her.

 

You're spot on about keeping things light -- every time we hang out, somehow the conversation comes back to 'us' and I lose my patience, or I get hurt by something she says, and I start to get either (1) angry or (2) mopey and sad. This is where I think NC really comes into play; I shouldn't hang out with her until what she says doesn't affect me so much, otherwise I can never dig out of this hole.

 

Thanks again, unanimous123.

[Cope and Hope]

I think you really do just need to go NC easton, for your good, for hers, and to keep chances of reconcilliation in tact. You're currently looking at tiny little signs and reading too much into it which means you're still too close to the situation to heal or fix anything. Things like liking a facebook post and hugging really don't mean much as far as approaching reconcilliation is concerned which is what your end goal seems to be here.

 

The main things you should be paying attention to are:

 

• She tells me she knows I am physically attractive, but isn't attracted to me, no spark anymore.

• She says it's because of the pain, the anger, the stressing her out, the jealousy, the neediness. It turned her off, she can't get it back.

• She says there are changes I need to make (counseling for my anger, getting friends back, living life, letting her live hers)

• She says that she doesn't want to give me false hope, but she doesn't know what the future holds. Says not to hold on to hope.

• She says I need to make changes for me, not for her.

• She accepted my invites to go to a Cirque du Soleil show, later a movie, later kayak'ing -- but acted distant. No touching.

• We went out one night, got into a big fight. She says I'm not showing her any change. I said you're crazy, I've done many changes.

 

These are the important points of what you posted, the rest was just filler that wasn't needed. Short story here is she's acting distant because she has lost emotional attraction to you. You still have the advantage of her still finding you physically attractive, so you know that you need to work on some issues personality wise if you want to get her back. She has already outlined what she thinks the causes are for you which are mainly jealousy, neediness, anger, and having a mundane day-to-day routine with little-to-no social life. She doesn't want to give you false hope so she is definitely considering moving on if you don't show any changes which I honestly don't think you have in such a short time frame with so much consistent contact, ESPECIALLY when you got into an anger fueled argument again recently; to be honest, you probably helped to push her away even more in the long-term with that argument and you are DEFINITELY hurting your chances of reconcilliation at the moment by staying in consistent contact without actually making any changes.

 

Remember that there is a difference between making changes and "making changes". If you're "making changes" just to get her back in the short-term, it's going to show that you haven't REALLY changed once you get comfortable again because you haven't actually changed, it's all just a front to try and convince her everything will be alright. On the other side is actually making changes and more importantly is making changes for yourself. Do you see those flaws in yourself or are they only flaws now because she has pointed them out? If you do see them in yourself and agree that they are character flaws then why aren't you putting in the effort to correct them and better yourself as a person? After all, the point of a relationship is to learn about your partner, yourself, and to grow, not to find a comfortable niche of the world to stagnate and die in.

 

Go NC, take real time to yourself to get yourself and your life together. Make the changes to yourself as you see fit. Try your best not to contact her again until you've ACTUALLY made some changes and see if she's able to see them in you as you see them in yourself. Best of luck.

[camus154]

Spot on advice.

[sharky988]

I agree with the above post. The important thing to hear is that the attraction is dead for her, the spark is gone.

 

You admit there were anger issues, control issues, some neediness and clinginess -- I've been on the other end of this and I can tell you these ARE attraction-killers. If you combine these with refusing to go completely NC, I don't see that you have any chance of ever winning her back.

 

More importantly, I think you should put yourself in her shoes. Imagine that you decided you didn't want to be with someone anymore -- but here they are, almost 3 months later, still refusing to accept it, still wanting to talk about it or work things out or somehow manipulate things to get the relationship back....

 

Have some empathy for her position! There's nothing in your OP that makes me think she's in any way undecided about wanting to end this. What I DO read is your refusal to ACCEPT her wanting to end it and reading into all the things she's said to soften the blow. She LOVES you, she's just not IN LOVE with you anymore. That spark is gone. Fair or not, that's the reality. You're torturing yourself, trying to twist her kind words into meaning more, that she's still undecided.

 

Sorry to be harsh, but I think you sound like a smart guy who really means well..... I just think it's time to give it a rest and focus on YOU and moving on. Go NC. Block her off Facebook. Stop hanging out or having anything to do with her. Accept the relationship is over and focus on bettering yourself and your own life.

 

MAYBE in time she'll change her mind. If she does, she'll let you know. But you can't count on that.

 

Just my two cents -- feel free to ignore it!

[eastonweston]

Sharky988, this was perfect. I don't think it was harsh, I think it was an honest assessment. And I appreciate that, truly.

 

In this situation, when NC is spoken about, we're talking me not replying to ANY of her communication? To be clear, all communication between us has been her initiation for the past 4 weeks. So I have in fact tried to leave her alone, yet she dangles that string out and baits me in. Do they do this for their own ego? Because if she wanted me to leave, if she'd had no interest in me, then why not walk the other way and be relieved I've given up? I've done that, I've stopped reaching out to her for weeks now, but she keeps pinging me after about a week of silence...

 

E.

[sharky988]

Yeah, NC means not having any contact at all -- not even replying when she contacts you.

 

You don't reply to ANYTHING -- unless she tells you she's reconsidered and wants to get back together.

 

The best way (imo anyway) to go NC is to reply to her next contact with a brief text or email saying that you respect her decision to end things, but for your own healing you need to end all contact between you. Thank her in advance for understanding. After that, you don't reply to anything from her -- don't take her calls or answer texts or emails, nothing, unless she's asking for another chance.

 

Why do they continue to contact us? Lots of reasons.

 

They feel guilty.

They feel lonely or sorry for themselves.

They miss having you to talk to and hang out with.

They're afraid they won't meet anyone else and they want to keep you as a back-up Plan B.

They're having second thoughts and want to be reassured they made the right decision.

They've just been rejected by someone else they were interested in and want contact with you to feel desirable again.

It feels good to talk to someone who loves you and wants you (yeah, an ego stroke, basically).

 

One of the greatest gifts of NC is that it forces your ex to live with the consequences of her decision to end it. Now she doesn't have you there to hold her hand through life. She has to face losing you FOR REAL. She's not going to be happy about this. Also, if you're lucky, it's going to bring back a bit of that missing spark.... she won't like it but she'll RESPECT YOU MORE for doing it.... suddenly you're unattainable again.... and that's kind of hot!

 

More importantly, it ends the pain of continued contact. Once you stop getting hurt, you can start to heal!

[eastonweston]

Thank you, Sharky. I'm going to heed your advice, because it makes complete & logical sense. The next contact from her, I will politely yet sternly let her know I need space.

 

I can tell you that most people cannot swallow the thought of NC because it seems mean and rude to ignore your ex's communication attempts. Yes, the counter is: "mean? they left YOU. they rejected YOU." True, but in this case, it was my fault. My anger. My controlling. My need to 'win' fights. So ignoring her doesn't seem to show kindness and compassion. I assume this is why it's important to state why NC will be occurring before going radio silent. It's such a counterintuitive move, NC, that it's so very tough to implement when you think: "ah, but they're right there!". I just don't want to facilitate further thinking by her that I am needing to 'win' this breakup by not responding and being stubborn.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

E.

[sharky988]

Yeah, it makes sense.

 

One of the lovely things about embracing NC is that, in essence, you're letting go. You let go of your need to win. You let go of your need to control. You let go of your need to get back together.

 

You walk away, with dignity, having respected your ex's decision. You let go. Whatever will be, will be. This creates space and a feeling of freedom for your ex. It creates a feeling of self-mastery in you, because you're doing something so incredibly difficult and taking the high road. Whatever power plays existed between you in the past, they're gone now. What a relief for both of you!

 

As you say, it's not rude or mean, as long as you politely let them know what you're doing and why. It WILL seem mean to your ex if she breaks down and contacts you anyway and you don't answer her.... which usually happens sooner or later.... but the only communication you want to respond to is one that's asking for another chance. Everything else is just her checking to make sure you're still there for her as an option in case she ever changes her mind.

[Cope and Hope]

Good. You're getting it. Sharky is giving you some solid advice and I already left my advice on the first page for you so feel free to refer to that when working on yourself. You seem pretty level headed at the moment so I think you'll do just fine.

[eastonweston]

Good. You're getting it. Sharky is giving you some solid advice and I already left my advice on the first page for you so feel free to refer to that when working on yourself. You seem pretty level headed at the moment so I think you'll do just fine.

 

Cope and Hope -- I very, very much appreciate your advice. I've seen several other posts you've made accross the site and you always put things in such clear perspective through eloquence and intelligence.

 

You, too, have made me cut through the clutter of my hope and face the stark reality: she has said that she has no attraction for me. Once that is stated, everything else is fluff. Spot on. Seems obvious in hindsight. I am now convinced that NC is the right move, and for all the right reasons, not simply as a tactic to elicit a reaction from her. I've always known it, really, but it's sometimes good to get out of your own head and get perspective from others. This is so extremely tough and sad. Heartbreaking. It's great that people like you and Sharky and many, many others take the time to read people's personal stories and volunteer your time and thoughts. That means a lot to a lot of people.

 

E.

[eastonweston]

And so I'm going to assume that you two would advise me to remove her as a friend on Facebook (I've already unsubscribed from her updates), remove her ability to see my Google Calendar, and possibly ask to exchange apartment keys back?

 

E.

[Cope and Hope]

It depends a lot on your routine and self-restraint really. I would say the best options would be to control yourself enough to not give yourself the chance to take sneak peaks into her life, stop using those sites altogether, and just stay busy in general. As for the key thing it doesn't really matter unless it becomes a problem for one of you. When me and my most recent ex split, we never did the whole exchange keys back thing. I still have a house key to her place and she still has one to mine; the thing is we both trust eachother enough for it to not matter because it's mutually understood that neither of us are going to be sneaking into the others place or anything of the sort.

 

However, if you find yourself tempted to do something you're going to regret then yes remove her from social media sites (I unfriended my ex on facebook just to not have to hear about her dating other people simply because I don't want to know and this was before she started dating again) though I didn't go so far as to block her. You should know yourself better than anyone else so it's all mainly up to you.

 

And so I'm going to assume that you two would advise me to remove her as a friend on Facebook (I've already unsubscribed from her updates), remove her ability to see my Google Calendar, and possibly ask to exchange apartment keys back?

 

E.

[sharky988]

Block her from Facebook, Google, and any other ways either of you have to see each other's lives or communicate in any way, including all instant-messaging and social media.

 

Imo, it's a no-brainer that you return her keys and ask her to drop yours to you in the mail.

 

The idea is the sever ALL TIES, for real.

[eastonweston]

I have extremely strong will power, and in the 2.5 months we've been broken up I haven't checked her FB page one time. I also would never go over to her place without her permission. However, get this: on my birthday last Tuesday (1.5 weeks ago), she actually used my apartment key to leave a gift for me on my desk in my apartment when I wasn't there. What say you about that?

 

What I'm saying is that I don't need to severe these ties out of my own protection, because I have no urge to check these social media sites. It's more a question of what I should allow HER to see about my life, vs. what's being passive aggressive by stooping to social media actions like 'unfriending'.

[Cope and Hope]

Honestly, regarding what you should allow HER to see I don't think any of it should matter to you. Just because she CAN look at it doesn't mean she WILL look at it. Even if she does look at your stuff, from what I'm hearing you don't log on much to begin with so you won't be spamming updates to make your life look so much better without her as you shouldn't because the less she knows about what's going on in your life the better. This is because you'll appear more mysterious, her curiosity will be piqued, and when/if you guys DO see eachother again once you've worked on yourself the moment where she is hit by how much you've changed will be that much more awe-inducing which is what you want. Remember, the key here is trying to reignite the spark so the bigger the flame the better the chance the wick will catch.

[eastonweston]

Perfect. I love it. Thank you.

 

E.

[Cope and Hope]

You, too, have made me cut through the clutter of my hope and face the stark reality E.

 

I remember the first time I had to face the Stark reality...I still can't believe Eddard is dead...

 

Just kidding. Thought I'd throw some humor in since you seem to have gotten all of the advice you need.

[eastonweston]

I remember the first time I had to face the Stark reality...I still can't believe Eddard is dead...

 

HA! Nicely done.

 

One last point: I don't think my ex has really had a moment to process and miss me. From the contact we were having every two weeks, I know that in this month alone she has her sister visiting and staying with her from tonight until Tuesday; has her best friend visiting & staying the next weekend, and she's going to Boston to visit another friend the following weekend. And in between on weekdays she works and after work has band practice, and bible group, and errands, etc. I know that she's been doing this for the past 2.5 months -- staying extremely busy, traveling, visiting her other sister in TX for a week. She actually even admitted to me one time that she "just keeping busy" so she doesn't have to dwell on the situation.

 

Ouch. That was actually painful to hear. When will she settle down and actually process that I'm no longer in her life?

 

E.