Does anyone regret going to college?

[Batya33]

Hook line and sinker, you have swallowed the Bait of Ignorance...Seriously, How many degrees does it take for you to finally see through this???? And it's great because now with two undergraduates, a graduate degree looms ahead???? And then what, a job IN THE UNIVERSITY??????? It all seems a bit Self serving, doesn't it?

 

No.

 

Go back and read Thor's Post. This is one of the wisest posts you will see on this topic ANYWHERE. No matter what happens, People will always need water - either good clean coming in, or bad dirty being safely removed going out, people will always need electricity, and people will always need their cars repaired. When you have a job in needs that cannot be outsourced, you'll ALWAYS have an income.

 

I would not have had the career I had. , the husband and family I have, the financial independence I have or the dear friends and colleagues I have if I had followed these negative generalizations. Both the substance of what I learned plus the facts of my academic accomplishments opened both professional and personal doors that would have been out of reach otherwise. I didn't do it for the money but financial stability was a factor. And it wasn't just about having a job or an income it was about having a career. If I had wanted to be a plumber that would have been great - I am not looking down on the choice to pursue a job or trade that doesn't require university -but my values were not about "I just want to be employable and have an income".

[Generation]

I would not have had the career I had. , the husband and family I have, the financial independence I have or the dear friends and colleagues I have if I had followed these negative generalizations. Both the substance of what I learned plus the facts of my academic accomplishments opened both professional and personal doors that would have been out of reach otherwise. I didn't do it for the money but financial stability was a factor. And it wasn't just about having a job or an income it was about having a career. If I had wanted to be a plumber that would have been great - I am not looking down on the choice to pursue a job or trade that doesn't require university -but my values were not about "I just want to be employable and have an income".

 

That's good for you...

[Batya33]

That's good for you...

 

My point is that my experience is typical - maybe not specifically all of those benefits and maybe different ones but certainly significant benefits among almost all of the people I know.

[Generation]

My point is that my experience is typical - maybe not specifically all of those benefits and maybe different ones but certainly significant benefits among almost all of the people I know.

 

Now you're rubbing it in. But hey, that's good for the people you know too then.

[Batya33]

Now you're rubbing it in. But hey, that's good for the people you know too then.

 

My point was not to rub anything in but to refute the negative generalizations about the value of a college education.

[Generation]

My point was not to rub anything in but to refute the negative generalizations about the value of a college education.

 

Unfortunately, those negative generalizations are widespread truth, perhaps not for you or your circle of friends but for almost every single person my age it is (the new grads).

Also, I'm talking about money, something we can objectively, universally measure and not the connections we make when we're there cause that's not something we can measure. So you probably won't have a say in this just cause your post is more or less based on the connections you've made as well as you've said yourself your values are different. But anyway.

 

5 years ago, with my education, I could have gotten a starting 50k job and most people did.

With my education today most grads are fighting for 30k-40k jobs, not including those in engineering/medicine.

 

Major matters. Someone who's gonna find work in a clinical facility is gonna have a far better chance than someone who's studying to become a musician, for example. You've been blessed that you chose something that was in demand, cause if I'm not mistaken, you worked at some clinic.

 

Given the power to go back in time when I was 17 years old and given the choice to go to college or not, I would still go but I would go into a field where prospects of employment are much higher. Anyhow, that brings me back to my main point in quoting you, cause you quoted Lonewing and he basically said "people will always need electricity, and people will always need their cars repaired" and that's basically demand. Ideally, if I could do electricity without having to go to college and I could work with my friend's dad and just learn everything hands on, that would be optimal, but unforunately, even my friend's dad had to do his Masters cause of new regulations, which was so pointless cause he had the 20+ years knowledge but no Masters degree, that piece of paper was only so he could keep his job, not so he could learn something he didn't know.

[Mercurial Girl]

Ideally, if I could do electricity without having to go to college and I could work with my friend's dad and just learn everything hands on, that would be optimal, but unforunately, even my friend's dad had to do his Masters cause of new regulations, which was so pointless cause he had the 20+ years knowledge but no Masters degree, that piece of paper was only so he could keep his job, not so he could learn something he didn't know.

 

Here you need 4 years full time education for electrician and plumber THEN you apprentice. It's crazy.

 

That's what I would do too otherwise.

[Generation]

Here you need 4 years full time education for electrician and plumber THEN you apprentice. It's crazy.

 

That's what I would do too otherwise.

 

lol... just shoot me x_x I thought it would be 2 years.

[Alpine]

5 years ago, with my education, I could have gotten a starting 50k job and most people did.

With my education today most grads are fighting for 30k-40k jobs, not including those in engineering/medicine.

 

I think it depends where you live. A lot of posts here are in regards to education and the job market in the US. For those of us living outside the US the situation is very different. I know that where I live, university graduates get a starting salary of at least 50k. My starting salary in my first year out was 56k. This was 2 years ago. All of my university educated friends make more than most of my friends who didn't further their education after high school. That's just how it is here. So I definitely do not regret going to university!

[Mercurial Girl]

lol... just shoot me x_x I thought it would be 2 years.

 

I had to double check and I was wrong, it's 2 years, 12 week pre-employment program, 5 year appenticeship - which at least you get paid for, but damn.

[redrose85]

I’m interested in having a 9-5 type job while I work as a freelance writer/editor on the side. I looked up a training program for a hospital unit clerk (a job I’d love that would let us finally be financially comfortable)... 8 months training is $5,000, and because it doesn’t meet the length requirements for student loans, there is no funding. I can’t shake the feeling that my BA is going to be useless. Trying to stay positive, but there just aren’t jobs here.

[Lonewing]

My point was not to rub anything in but to refute the negative generalizations about the value of a college education.

 

The vast problem is, the anecdotes in favor of the value of a college degree are becoming far outnumbered by what is becoming at this point a rather sick statistic.

 

We are looking at a GENERATION of young people who have lost 5 year and owe halfway to 5 figures in debt with degrees that might enable them to make what a high school graduate has been making since graduation without the degree.

[Lonewing]

The danger of clinical jobs is that ever present 'downsizing followed by layoffs due to "budget cuts." Then, then there's "money again," the lab hires again, but at lower starting wage and while some experience is necessary to get the job, it has no bearing on increasing that starting wage any and if you have too much experience, they move on to the next applicant citing "over qualified" as if that's actually possible - you can either do the job or you can't!!

 

I wouldn't even think once about getting a degree in music unless your goal is to teach Elementry Music. Justin Beiber is but one drop in the bucket when it comes to the current music industry; I've met one too many songwriter with stores of unpublished music, the last one has a collection of over 1000 songs in all. Turns out all you need to do well in music is a pretty voice and a good camera presence, the first you can get with a couple years of voice lessons, the latter you were either born with or you'll never have it. Collegiate training? Meh. I'd also avoid anything that involves writing, poetry, or especially creative writing unless you can gamble your way into a university teaching position - and even this is not guaranteed to pay much, after you spend a decade of your life working as a TA barely making peanuts. I cannot begin to count how many people I know have a book, or multiple books in progress or even finished, and they're just shopping for a publisher at this point. When the general public only has an 8th grade reading level, it turns out you don't need all that much education to write something to their level.

 

Secretarial positions are now by and large disappearing. Turns out the departments can do those jobs on their own; the university discovered this and cut them all. I remember well my old supervisor who has now been in the university system for over 25 years, it took her 15 years to get her degree because she had kids along the way, but it seemed like she's no closer to gaining a stable career now than she was wen she started.

 

I saw a really good video on Youtube a couple months back, it sounded like one of those "everybody died - there's no one left here" post apocolypse videos. But his point was this; out of all his friend, the only ones with jobs are the engineers - not the chemists, not the biologists, but the chimcal engineers and the others who can turn the vast store of knowledge that already exists into marketable products, and even in these fields wages have fallen significantly. It's far cheaper now for companies to do their hiring out of China or India now, and they get far better people for that much lower wage. I saw this happening ten years ago, though, seeing as how my indian peers were a good two -three years ahead in their mathematics and their physics versus me, even though were were of the same age and we've been in school for the same amount of time.

 

The truly successful people I know did not get where they are by getting a degree. They applied themselves to their respective fields, took advantage of what opportunites came their way as they did their work, be those advantages organizational skills, management skills, or flat out personality/physical appearance [face it, if you're a really sweet girl with a gorgeous face, you'll be corporate boilerplate inside of two years] you'll be offered the positions before they're ever offered publicly. And if they are offered publicly, it's only to satisfy State and National EEO requirements, and that person ia already shoed-in to the position.

 

The reality is, the University has completely changed in the last ten years, and with the last recession drop, it's become a whole new world. At this point, it's seriously time we all start rethinking our strategies, because rhe old ones - the ones older than ten years - are all wildly out of date.

[Batya33]

I feel badly for what the new grads are going through . I was affected too by the crash although it coincided with my decision to be with my child full time for a few years. I still believe that all else equal (after all I graduated a year after the '87 crash) once the economy comes back some the college grads will be in a far better position than non-college grads as far as the chances of finding a decent job.

[Generation]

The danger of clinical jobs is that ever present 'downsizing followed by layoffs due to "budget cuts." Then, then there's "money again," the lab hires again, but at lower starting wage and while some experience is necessary to get the job, it has no bearing on increasing that starting wage any and if you have too much experience, they move on to the next applicant citing "over qualified" as if that's actually possible - you can either do the job or you can't!!

 

Damn, you know what... you're 100% correct on that. I've been sort of noticing this (with clinic worker friends), especially in the past few months.

[Lonewing]

I feel badly for what the new grads are going through . I was affected too by the crash although it coincided with my decision to be with my child full time for a few years. I still believe that all else equal (after all I graduated a year after the '87 crash) once the economy comes back some the college grads will be in a far better position than non-college grads as far as the chances of finding a decent job.

 

Once the economy comes back...

 

I think this is one of the meanest lies we've ever told ourselves, this idea that "the economy is coming back."

 

The fact is, we have as of yet to change our ways that got us into this trouble in the first place.

 

Our economy is based upon the principle that in order to make one dollar GDP growth today, we have to borrow one dollar from tomorrow [National Debt]. When we get to tomorrow, we owe a dollar [that loan from yesterday], but we also need to make a dollar for today's GDP growth, so again we borrow this dollar from tomorrow. We have to pay back the dollar we borrowed yesterday too, so we borrow one more dollar form the future and pay back the one dollar [social Security, Medicare] we owe yesterday. It may not seem like much in the short run, but over 30 years thaat daily deficit goes from dollars to trillions of dolalrs. the projected deficit at the end of this year is 1.7 Trillion. This is how Reagonimics Works!!! Look it up, every chart illustrating the theory projects that after 30-45 years, the system catastrophically CRASHES because there it is no longer feasible to make the amount of growth required to support the amount of debt being taken out in order to create that growth. we had a ncie happy free lunch for the last 25 years and now, well, we're about to face the consequences of being ignorant of our own economic policies.

 

It is not that fault of the economy that we're paying for playing with faulty economics!!!

 

Economics is a "You get out what you put in" system, hence it's a humanity closer to the Sciences [empiracal truth] than it is to the Social Sciences [relative truth]! This makes a lot of people upset, of coruse, becasue we want to play touchy-feelgood with our economic policies as if they ARE a social science.

 

I realize that we're between a rock and a hard spot. The sad truth is, social security was built upon the premise that the average retiree would DIE after no more than four years of being retired, at a time when the average man lived to 62-66. In this way, many would pay in but only a few would see the maximum benefit. Today, we see retirees living 10, 20, 30 years beyond the day they hang up their cap. Granted, most of their money is being paid out into senior care industry and into the pharmeceutical industry, but this is a hemorage that is quickly having a real effect on our national deficit. It should go without saying that since we've instated medicare, we've seen this expenditure go from 0% of our budget to over 20% in a time when we were already strapped for cash.

 

I sadly don't have any answers, or at least, any answers that will make the "universalist" sort 'happy." I am reminded of the phrase "there's no such thing as a free lunch," yet this is precisely how some people think the economy works: it just spits out free cash for people everywhere, if only some people work for 30 years or so. It's been coming from somewhere!

 

I've been railing against the economy ever since I started looking into the National Trade deficit. It's the single scariest number on our books, because that number is like a daily Credit Card receipt. And it shows that since before 2000, we've been essentially GIVING our country away - because it's NOT going to come back, at least not by any easy means!!!

 

So here's what I'm saying right now: Watch out. The future is rocky. Go back and look at the beginning of the Great Depresison, and you will see that it did not happen all at once. We are staving off our future by printing money, and our presses couldn't be humming along much faster at this point. This cannot last - we cannot keep racking in more national debt and say our economy is doing great. Wake me up when we see a National Surplus of $1 Trillion - and shock me when you tell me they took that $1 Trillion is surplus and actually PAID OFF national debt. If we want to reverse the last ten years of economy turmoil, we have to do that TEN YEARS IN A ROW!!! Only then will the US be sitting at 5 Trillion in debt again - my oh my do we have a LONG way to go!!!

 

This is about as black and white [ahem, RED] as it gets...

link removed

[Thorshammer]

I had to double check and I was wrong, it's 2 years, 12 week pre-employment program, 5 year appenticeship - which at least you get paid for, but damn.

 

Is this for a specific job? Is that in Canada only?

 

There are actual HVAC apprentice spots, and its all part of particular unions (I believe, I am not too sure). Some companies dont have apprenticeships at all. Some guys at my job started as helpers, some had zero experience at all (no apprenticeships, no prior experience or training), they learned by grabbing tools and listening. I am sure other trades might follow this as well. Best thing about starting as a helper or apprentice, is that if its a union job, you will get great benefits.

 

Getting your licenses (for example i am working on three right now, one is blow torch safety, blow torch use, and epa universal- each trade has licenses waiting for you), and learning from someone that you can put on a resume, I know how to install xxx, and am familiar with xxx, will make you attractive enough.

 

I would still go for a degree though. At some point, when i have enough experience, i can ask for way more than the standard $$ per hour, and i can even make a grab for a service manager or project manager spot (suit and tie job in the field). Plus, not everyone has a friend to teach them, so applying for a helper/apprenticeship is like saying, "yeah, pay to train me so i can make 60,000 a year" for no reason beside me having good interview skills- this wont match someone who went to college for 2 years and proved he is in it for the long-run, or the guy who at least got certified in classes that lasted 5 months.

[Lonewing]

This really is the road, though. You start out of highschool or while you are still in highschool as a helper and express your serious intent to be in the field. At the same time, you build your skills and experience to the point where you not only have the technical skills necessary to warrant a degree or a license, but you also have the political connections due to your proven reliability as an employee. You may have to pay for the program out of your own pocket, but then again, at this point your employer may very well pick up the tab for you. And in time, this means you're making money towards a college degree, instead of spending money you don't have on a degree that is fundamentaly worthless without experience, connections or real world time spent on the job.

 

People selling degrees often miss this connection - the people who have degrees did not become successful because they went and got a degree; they got a degree in the course of being successful first. Anybody who thinks they can skip to the front of the line by getting a degree is fooling themselves.

[Thorshammer]

Well, this is true, but there is luck involved unless you start as something small that has zero experience, like a warehouse worker, or driver, and then being reliable with time to ask for a helper spot to learn the trade. I got this position because I have a degree. The other person they hired with me was a managers nephew. The other guy that got a spot years ago (who for some reason doesnt want to go full mechanic) got it because he knew a mechanic who got him in, and THAT mechanic he knew learned from his uncle and he still had to get certified.

 

I graduated with 50 people, thats 50 people each year from one school who is trying to get that spot. They will get in front of the line. And most hvac spots ask for a college degree.

[Lonewing]

Well, this is true, but there is luck involved unless you start as something small that has zero experience, like a warehouse worker, or driver, and then being reliable with time to ask for a helper spot to learn the trade. I got this position because I have a degree. The other person they hired with me was a managers nephew. The other guy that got a spot years ago (who for some reason doesnt want to go full mechanic) got it because he knew a mechanic who got him in, and THAT mechanic he knew learned from his uncle and he still had to get certified.

 

I graduated with 50 people, thats 50 people each year from one school who is trying to get that spot. They will get in front of the line. And most hvac spots ask for a college degree.

 

Yes, but they're looking for experience first. The HVAC manager at the Museum, for example, was driving a police car when he was asked to look into it. His reputation was the first thing the people hiring were looking at, the second being his license/educaiton. He had neither of the latter two, but it turns out he only needed 6 months to get them.

 

The social ladder is really the strongest component in the job environment. As you said, there are 50 people graduating with that same degree - that's 49 people who will NOT get that one job!! If you know the guy, and the guy knows you, well, it's a shoe in...

 

Now obviously, if you don't know anybody and they're being particular, you need both. Thus far I have found the best route for a comprehensive education/experience/connection is the armed forces. Just being a veteran gives one +5 points on any federal application...