Stay or Go? OCD in Parter Regarding Ex

[Jerhico]

Heya all,

 

I'm a 33-year-old guy who's been divorced for about 6 years. I know my divorce was hard, but I've been through denial, bargaining, and finally acceptance.

 

A year ago, I met a wonderful woman who was separated (but not divorced) from her husband. We hit it off, and fell in love. She eventually moved in with me, and when the divorce was final, we got the kids from her previous marriage.

 

As time has gone on, I've begun to get a little nervous about some behavior I've witnessed.

 

Her ex-husband isn't particularly smart, and is not computer-savvy at all to boot. As a result, he's never changed passwords on their formerly joint bills and bank accounts, or apparently has chosen such easy-to-guess passwords that my girlfriend was able to figure them out.

 

I started noticing little things at first. Her ex-husband signed up for an online dating service, and my girlfriend made fun of him for doing so. I did happen to catch her trying to figure out how to get into his dating service account once, though, and when I checked the browser history after work one day, I saw she'd been trying to get in for several consecutive days. She'd also sent him an email containing nothing but the text he'd used to describe himself on the singles website, prompting a surprised "huh?" from him.

 

Well, one night she let me know that he had met someone on the dating service, and she was angry at him because he had the kids until the school year was out, and he was introducing a strange woman into the house without informing her. I could tell it went deeper than that, though. I knew she was either hurt or jealous that he'd already apparently moved on. She could see the subject was making me uncomfortable, so she stopped talking about it, but I think this is when her fascination with her ex-husband's life really began to bother me.

 

She has three children by this man, and an 8 year marriage that failed. She left him, and claims she is happy to have done so, but whenever she talks to the kids, she spends as much time on the phone talking to him as she does to them. Sometimes there's awkward pauses like she's trying to think of things to say to extend the conversation more. I've also noticed a tendency to try to make her phone calls to the kids when I'm in the shower, or otherwise occupied. She claims I'm always welcome to be around when she makes phone calls, but I can't shake the feeling she prefers privacy for these.

 

It wasn't long before I noticed she was comparing the new woman in her ex-husband's life to herself, and looking for flaws in her. I wrote this off as normal female competitiveness, but I could see she was building herself up to hate this other woman, and got especially angry if her kids mentioned her in an approving manner.

 

Well, things came to a head when she found out he was lying to her about a supposed business trip. A mutual friend of her ex's and hers let slip that it wasn't a business trip, but he was actually flying out to meet a girl he'd been chatting with on the internet. My girlfriend couldn't stop talking about this, usually couching her anger in terms of him being able to afford a "$1600 booty call, but not have enough to help buy school clothes for his kids."

 

When he got back, she kept rationalizing that the trip must have gone bad, because he's not said anything about it, and the kids had yet to talk to this new woman. By now I'm getting really concerned about her constant discussion of her ex-husband's personal life. We had a fight about it, at which point she insisted she was totally over him, that she was happily with me, and that's the way she wanted things to stay.

 

I didn't quite feel like her perspective adequately explained what I was observing, but I kept that to myself, despite my misgivings.

 

Just last week, she finally figured out his email password. Now there are no secrets. She found out that her ex-husband is not just sleeping with two women, but is working actively on a third - None of whom know about one another. She's read detailed accounts of their sexual experiences and lurid fiction her ex and these women are sending one another in email.

 

She spent that night off someplace else in her head, breaking down and crying from time to time.

 

I love her, but at that point I nearly broke up with her...She does not know this. I feel like she's holding on to the past. I did put my foot down and told her that we needed to agree that the past is the past, and we need to focus on the future to move forward. I told her that I didn't want her going into his email or other stuff anymore, and I would not discuss her ex's personal life unless it was absolutely necessary or affected the welfare of the kids.

 

She reluctantly agreed she'd stop snooping, but seemed indignant that I thought she was still hung up on him. She clung to the claim that she just checks up to ensure the kids aren't being put in a bad situation, and was being a responsible parent. I told her she was illegally spying on a man she has no legal right to, obsessing on the results, and that there was no gray area here...That she was wrong. Even if it wasn't morally wrong, it was wrong for our relationship - Since it's focusing disproportionately on issues that don't directly affect it.

 

She says she's stopped checking up on him, but I know she still is. Every day when I come home from work, the broswer cache is cleared as well as cookies and temporary internet files. I came in the door yesterday quietly, and peeked around the corner and saw she had his email up.

 

When we're out shopping, she makes snide comments about some of the sexual things she apparently read about her husband doing with these other women. For instance, he apparently enjoyed spanking one of his "bad girls" with a hair brush. So, my girlfriend and I will be walking through a store, and she'll grab a hairbrush off the shelf and say, "So, you want to spank my butt until it's crimson-red? I've been a bad girl." This is apparently a verbatim statement from one of those emails she read that she's simultaneously mocking and obsessing over.

 

I don't want to end this relationship. I feel horrible since I'm not just sending her from my home, but also her three kids, whom I'm really attached to. At the same time, I may eventually have to since I won't compete with the shadow of a man no longer in her life.

 

Does anyone have advice or experiences they can relate that may impact my decision?

[Scout]

This is a difficult situation, and I honestly think the best answer is the two of you get relationship counseling. I am sure she loves you, but she has not been able to let go of the anger she feels for her ex, and there are obviously a few other emotions going on there that she has for him. Given the choice between you and her ex, I am sure you would be the "winner", but at the same time, I don't think her behavior towards you is appropriate. In order for her to fully contribute to her relationship with you, she needs to let go of her relationship with her ex (even though it's a dead relationship, she's still not letting go of something).

 

She was married to this man for a long time and has children with him. Obviously, there is going to be some baggage there, and it probably wasn't wise of her to jump into another relationship until she had healed from her previous one.

 

Yes, I think you two should seek counseling at this point.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

Only had time to skim your post. Sorry. It was a little long.

 

I wouldn't think she has OCD, again sorry if I missed the point. But the fact that she got defensive about snooping on him seems to say that she is still attached to her ex. If you love her, and if she loves you, maybe you should consider letting her go and let her understand herself.

 

Women (and probably men) are like this. You can't legitimently start a relationship without ending the old one. She may care for you deeply, but you don't want to have all these "what ifs" running around in her head.

When she does come back after realizing her true feelings, or letting them eventually die, you might want to consider tharpy for the both of you, espically if your worried about OCD. But phrase it in the way that makes to seem that you are dedicated to the relationship and you both have things to work on.

 

Sorry, not much help, but good luck.

[sisterlynch]

I agree with the comments above, and I agree that there is a need for counseling. I think that I understand why her first marriage didn't work out too well.

 

She seems depressed, I think. The crying, and obsessing is all a part of the denial that she is missing her husband and she is wanting him to be as sorry that she is gone as she is (probably) happy to be gone. If that makes sense to you.

 

I guess that the divorse is still new and there are going to be ugly emotions that she may be hiding from you. I sense that she probably could use some antidepressants.

 

The comment about the brush, though, wow, that is really pushing it.

[Jerhico]

Thank you for the prompt advice. I think she'd be indignant if I suggested counseling.

 

I guess I'll tell her she needs to move out tonight...Needs to find herself and do some healing before commiting to someone else. I won't bring up the counseling unless she asks if there's anything we can do to save the relationship. I know she'd dismiss it out of hand if I told her I was going and would like her to as well.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

Why don't you make it a condition.

 

"I have some problems, and we have some problems. If you want to make this work we should try couples therapy."

[Scout]

Thank you for the prompt advice. I think she'd be indignant if I suggested counseling.

 

I guess I'll tell her she needs to move out tonight....

 

I think she's going to be more indignant if you tell her she has to move out! Why are you afraid of her reaction to counseling? I mean, what's the worse she can do...say no way, I'm moving out instead?

 

Let me ask you something: in your heart, do you want her to move out? Because maybe you feel this situation can't be fixed...or other reasons?

[Jerhico]

Well, I thought about this a lot yesterday, but then a few developments happened which really set off my alarm bells.

 

First, a friend of mine who also happens to know her ex-husband said that he was very angry because somebody had canceled an online gaming account of his and changed the password so he could not log in to play.

 

I figured I had a pretty good idea of who that was. My girlfriend also told me she had realized she was still a joint customer on their cable internet and cable bill, so she had called to cancel it that day, and didn't bother to tell her ex about it.

 

When I got home, the browser caches, temp files, and cookies were all cleared on the computer browser again, but a look at the firewall log confirmed she'd been to the account website for the online game in question.

 

Look, I don't like her ex much. He is a chronic liar and has other issues that affect my quality of life because it makes caring for his kids more difficult sometimes. But what my girlfriend is doing is vindictive harassment.

 

I love her, and would give anything if she could purge this malice from her system and move on into the future with me, but it's becoming increasingly evident to me that she is obsessed with what her ex is doing and cannot stop messing with him or prying into his business.

 

I'm angry at the moment, but my gut tells me it's time to cut and run. I deserve a woman who is willing to commit to me, not to a shadow of an unhappy past.

[cassiana]

Just a question, is there any possibility that he knows she's snooping and he is messing with her head?

What are the custody arrangements?

 

I think she's obssessed and her behaviour sounds excessive. She's obviously storing up alot of bitterness.

 

However you are the innocent victim in all this so you need to sit her down and tellher that she spends more time thinking about him than you and that this has to stop and if you catch her snooping again you are breaking up with her. I also agree with the suggestion that counselling might help.

 

The very best of luck.

[Jerhico]

He truly is dumber than a sack of packing peanuts. He has no clue she's snooping, though he's starting to get suspicious about some of the strange things that seem to be happening with his accounts.

 

She's obsessed and storing up bitterness, that's certain. She's in total denial about it too. I checked my firewall logs. She gained access to his email account on the 31st of Aug and so far she's accessed it:

 

4 times on the 31st

14 times on the 1st

and 7 times yesterday.

 

Of course, she claims she doesn't check his stuff at all and that she's "totally past him," which is patently not the case.

 

In fact, if I question her fascination with all things "ex-husband" she throws it back at me and says that she can't move on because I don't let her. I keep bringing him up and allowing him to come between us.

 

Huh? No, I just want her to stay out of his private life, let go of the anger, and build a life on her own or with me. Hanging on to the tattered pieces of a failed marriage is no way to live. Harboring anger and vindictiveness is an express-ticket to misery further down the road.

 

Thanks again everyone for your input!

[cassiana]

If he's so dumb could you contact him masquerading as some sort of online security monitor and anonymously get himto change all his codes to random words from the dictionary or something.

[Scout]

Of course, at a certain point you have to wonder: will she be this bitter and vindictive towards me if WE break up??

 

I feel for you. You really seem like a good soul, and you're in a very difficult situation. I can tell you love her, and I am assuming she's got some great qualities. I do think that counseling is an option to be tried before exit the relationship. The worst she can do is say "no" - but at least you know you tried some extra avenues to help the relationship.

 

It's up to you of course. If your heart is telling you that it's really time to go, well...of course, you know best about the situation.

[auburnslp]

ok I have quite a bit of experience with the whole ex-husband thing...it's why I am on this board...my ex left me after three plus wonderful years to reconcile with her ex. The warning signs were always there...guilt, anger, checking on him, including him when at times I was excluded, lots of stuff. I saw it all along, knew the danger that she may one day want to reconcile, would approach her with those fears, and like your girl, my girl would vehemently deny everything, right up to the very end...even when we broke up she denied that she was doing to to reconcile with her ex...even though it couldn't have been any more obvious...always told me that I was the man she loved, not him, hat she would never want to get back into that "crappy" marriage, etc. Well now it is only a matter of time that a for sale sign is up in front of his house and the wedding bells are ringing again.

 

Your gf is clearly not over her ex husband, and is almost obsessed with him. She gets angry and jealous when she finds him seeing other girls, she maliciously messes up his stuff, etc. She has not let go of him. And might not. I watched the same exact things...the anger directed towards her ex, the coldness...all telling me that emotionally she was still very attached to him. Then, after a year or so the anger faded and it became friendly between them, doing things together, etc. All very hurtful to sit back and watch it all unfold...and I tried...as I said I would talk to her about it all...she would deny everything, hide, and at times hold back information. I knew what was going on but was powerless to stop it. She started pulling away from me, easing off, told me that we were not committed to one another. That went on for quite a while. All led to a reconciliation attempt last Winter, which failed partly because I was still in the picture. She got angry and hurt again, as he was seeing someone else. Then that faded again, and it went back to them doing things together again. Finally ended for us 4 months ago. For good, forever.

 

I could do nothing to change what happened. I suggested counseling, she wouldn't go...because deep down she didn't want to because she knew that eventually she would want her ex back, and perhaps she only really knew this at a subconscious level. With hindsight, it wouldn't have mattered if we had gone to counseling or not...all of this was just inevitable, and I knew it almost all along.

 

So why did I stay and fight a battle that I knew I would eventually lose? My heart, my hopes, my love for her. I was powerless to change it all, and also powerless to leave. And it wrecked me when the end finally arrived...

 

It is senseless for me to give advice to you here, as I was not strong enough to end it myself, long ago, when I should have. Don't get me wrong, I broke it off with her on several occasions, due to all that was happening that I shared above-it was all so wrong and so unfair. Such inequity of love and devotion in that relationship. At least I learned from it...learned to heed those kind of warning signs in the future, and that if I ever get involved in an inequitable relationship again, I will run like H***.

 

All I am trying to say is that I see the same pattern with what you are dealing with. I know her anger makes it seem like she would never consider going back to him...but trust me that is not necessarily the case...I lived it. She is clearly still emotionally attached to him...and that is very scary. At first, during her anger stage, I wouldn't have guessed that it would end like this either. She seemed to truly dislike, even hate him.

 

You could try counseling. I really have doubts whether it would help. She is exhibiting some really scary behaviors in that she is hiding things from you, lying to you, and also, denying her emotions to you and possibly to herself as well...

 

I can't offer you advice, but I can tell you this. Now that it is all done here, if I had it all to do over again, I would have ended it a long time ago, permanently. It was so hurtful, the whole thing. And then losing her for good after trying so hard for so long to win an unwinnable battle...it was just devastating. As hard as it would have been, I wish I had been strong and walked away for good, myself, a long time ago.

 

Maybe all this would never happen for you the way it did for me...but I can say that the similarities of our situations are striking.

 

Whatever you decide to do, whatever path you take, you have my best wishes...I've been there brother, where you are, and it just sucks out loud...be well, be strong...Michael

[Mun]

Hello there,

You know your story sounds very much like what happened with a friend of mine. Her husband divorced her and during the first year after the divorce she would spy on him online, drive by his apartment to see if he was home, drove past his girlfriend's house to see his car in the driveway-- and verify that he was spending the night. She did all this while she was already dating, and apparently moving on, with someone else.

 

She would come over and cry to me that her ex was seeing so and so now and I would remind her--He left you, you are divorced. Well, it went in one ear and out the other. The second year he became somewhat serious with a girl and my friend would call him at any time, at work or home with excuses that the kids needed something. When he didn't answer her calls and she would cry to me about it I would tell her " why don't you have the kids call him instead?" again it went in one ear and out the other.

 

He got married a year ago and she has tried to make his marriage hell. She told his wife that she was still sleeping with him while they were dating.

 

She did many of the things you describe your girlfriend is doing--lying, denying everything but very obsessed with what was going on in her ex's life. Needless to say I stopped talking to her about 4 months ago. I told her " You're a beautiful woman but you are not going to have a complete life until you let him go."

 

Your girlfriend is not ready nor does she want to have a healthy relationship with someone else. She is still "over there" and you deserve better. I know you have a close attachment to the kids and I hope you can still be friends with them, but she needs to get over her marriage and her ex.

 

Best of luck to you.

[Jerhico]

Thank you all for the outpouring of advice and experiences, and particularly to Auburnslp for relating history that is obviously still very close to the bone.

 

This came to a head on Friday. I was headed out to do some shopping and my GF informed me she had spoken very briefly with the ex regarding clothes for the kids. Since her ex had the kids last weekend, I asked her if she'd had a chance to talk to them, and she said "no, they were outside playing."

 

I didn't think much of it, but as I was out and about, I decided that if I was going to end the relationship anyway, I'd do some checking.

 

I'd already checked our firewall logs. I felt guilty about this because spying on someone you supposedly love and trust is a slippery slope. It's just not honorable.

 

This time, I checked the phone records online. She had indeed talked to her ex. For 20 minutes, without talking to the children. I was incensed.

 

She chatted me up at work over MSN, and I basically told her I didn't want to talk to her, and we'd speak in person when I got home. She asked why, and I told her that in spite of our talk, I know she'd been talking to her ex and checking his email, financial data, and other personal stuff while I wasn't around. I also told her I was tired of hearing how she felt when her ex-husband was sending sex-mail back and forth with his latest conquest.

 

She asked me if I was going to break up with her, and I told her that we'd discuss it face-to-face. She fell to pieces.

 

She promised she'd never look at his stuff again, never speak to him on the phone unless it was absolutely necessary, and that she wanted met to check up on her to keep her honest. She said she didn't know what was wrong with her, but that she felt like his behavior was kicking her in the stomach, and that her pride was getting the best of her.

 

I'm still trying to decide what to do. My gut feeling is to adhere to the old "fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, shame on me!" proverb and give her one more chance. The only reason I am extending that opportunity is because this is the first time she's been "caught" and also the first time it's overtly threatened our relationship. Now she knows without a shadow of a doubt how seriously I take it.

 

At the same time, I made clear that there are no third chances. That she's not a bad person for not having healed from her marriage, but that if she could not put it behind her, she is an unwise choice on my part as a partner. I told her that I would not check up on her, but that if I noticed something was up again I'd confront her on it. If the weirdness didn't go away, then I may start digging again.

 

It sucks loving someone who isn't fully there with you, but it would suck worse to push someone special away without making sure they are truly damaged goods.

 

I'm crossing my fingers without much hope here. I'm praying there isn't a repeat. Thanks again, everyone, for your thoughtful input!