I think she was expecting a kiss... Do I have another chance?

[DrKitten]

I'm a 22yr old virgin, whose never had a girlfriend or been desired by anybody whom I like back (not counting online). I thought all that would change for me this month.. but that all came suddenly crashing down.

 

Yes it has been extremely stressful. A shock really. Being happy and confident in myself one minute.... only for things to suddenly go in reverse. Maybe that was reality hitting? I don't think I'll ever get to feel desired or worthy.

 

Blues, you made great progress. You went on several dates with her, you kissed her! You did well by showing interest as well as giving her space. But you have to remember that she is one girl, and there is no scientific formula to get her to fall for you. Even if you do everything "right", she may still go elsewhere, as she's apparently done. Because you can't make or persuader her to do anything, even if you're the most suave, confident, romantic man in the world. She still makes her own decisions independently of what you do. And if she doesn't decide on you, that's a reflection of her, not you. Sometimes you just don't get the girl.

 

But again, I reiterate she's just one girl. There are lots and lots of attractive girls out there. And you can flirt, date and kiss again. Some will reject you, and some others won't. Rejections happen to everyone, even the most confident guys but you never hear that because they don't sweat the rejections. They bask in the successes, even if those are fewer.

 

So your first attempt was a rejection. Almost everyone gets rejected the first time. This doesn't have to destroy you if you don't let it.

[Bluesman89]

Yes, perhaps to a normal guy with plenty of opportunities she would just be 'one girl'..

 

However to me she was the one drop of rain I had for what seemed like forever in this vast desert I am lost in the middle of. And god knows when the next drop will fall....

 

So I see no reason why I shouldn't expect another 20+ years of this.

[magnoliatree]

Well she spent the entire night out with a guy whom she had known for 2 days. She said she wouldn't be here for dinner and wouldn't be back that night. She slept with him, it's obvious..

 

This is really none of your business at all.

[Skylark89]

Hey Blues,

 

Cheer up! Don't let this get you so down! She's one girl out of how many?? And if you keep putting in the same effort that you've been, she won't be your last.

 

Personally, my impression is that there are 2 possible scenarios that have happened behind the scenes.

 

1. She knew this "f-buddy" casually, was interested in him, but thought he wasn't available. Then, you came in and showed interest; she realized your interest and decided to play it out. However once she realized you wanted a real relationship, she began to back away because that wasn't what she is looking for and she didn't want to hurt you by making you a "fling." Somewhere around this time, she discovered "f-bud" is available and looking for something casual; she decides to go for him.

 

or...

 

2. She liked you, but realized you wanted a real relationship; thought about it; and realized it didn't make much sense since she is only there for a few more weeks.

 

Maybe, I'm stretching things a bit....but call it my "woman's intuition"...I don't know...

 

Don't take this offensively, but...I feel like you began to get very caught up in the whole idea of being able to kiss her/have your first kiss and having a girlfriend, that you became a bit obsessed and really didn't take a moment to step back for yourself so you could view this whole thing properly. Ultimately though, you did nothing wrong. She just changed her mind. That's all.

 

Best thing for you to do: View this as you had a few good dates, but she eventually didn't call back...and leave it at that. It's her loss, not yours. Go out and start again.

[dali]

I wouldn't be surprised if you went another 20 years without kissing a girl, it's probably likely the way your going at the moment. Hard truth is the way you think and your attitude right now honestly sucks, it's making you sink deeper into that hole you have created for yourself.

 

I'm all for positive vibes, but this is really your own doing. You really need to be slapped hard accross the face hopefully it would knock some sense into you. ](*,)

[xyzzzz]

I wouldn't be surprised if you went another 20 years without kissing a girl, it's probably likely the way your going at the moment. Hard truth is the way you think and your attitude right now honestly sucks, it's making you sink deeper into that hole you have created for yourself.

 

I'm all for positive vibes, but this is really your own doing. You really need to be slapped hard accross the face hopefully it would knock some sense into you. ](*,)

agreed. why would anyone want to date a pathetic,obssessive,moping,desperate,hysterical guy ? and you are kinda leading yourself that way,sorry to say. so yeah..dont pin your hope on having another girl any time soon

get some help.

[capuccino83]

Just my .02 cents here and I know that the OP is really wrapped up in this girl, but can't he see what kind of inappropriate situation the girl would create for herself, the family and her exchange program and school is she were to hook up with the son of her host family? What if the parents found out, were upset and reported her to her program from improper conduct? This would only possibly hurt her academic career but the reputation of her exchange program/school. This girl sounds like she has a decent head on her shoulders and is trying to do the correct thing whether or not she finds the OP attractive.

 

As for pulling away, if I were living in this household as an exchange student, I would find it a little concerning if the son of the family that was hosting me kept trying to put the moves on me. Not only would I get tired of having to constantly deal with romantic attempts from someone who it's not appropriate for me to interested in, but I would get annoyed that this guy can't understand why this is wrong. Furthermore, if I was looking for a fling, I would not have casual sex with someone I was LIVING WITH, including LIVING WIH his parents. Being involved with someone that you're living with in his parents house = marriage-type of relationship. And if something really bad happened, like she got pregnant, it would certainly be a lot less awkward for her if this was by some random guy or another student than the son of her host family. Just how would you go explaining that one?

 

But OP, you are so desperate to find yourself attractive, that you can't see this - which to me is so obvious. And you are taking this so personally, when essentially, it was kind of wrong for you to want to put the moves on someone who's paying (since I'm sure her program is paying your parents rent) to live in your house. She's doing the best that she can - being polite to not disrespect your parents and their house, but also keeping the distance from you because she doesn't want to be involved with you and if she did, she's smart enough to know to stay away from that can of worms. Stop giving her a hard time. This is not about you. This is about what's the acceptable and responsible thing to do for this particular situation.

[Bluesman89]

^ cappucino83,

 

Did you read the quote I put in bold in my opening post? If she was being careful not to get involved with me, then why would she make such a suggestive and flirtatious remark to me? SHe led me on big time, I feel.

 

Was she f*cking with my head by saying that or what?

[magnoliatree]

It's pointless to continue writing in this thread. Best of luck with everything and I hope you eventually get help and sort yourself out.

[capuccino83]

^ cappucino83,

 

Did you read the quote I put in bold in my opening post? If she was being careful not to get involved with me, then why would she make such a suggestive and flirtatious remark to me? SHe led me on big time, I feel.

 

Was she f*cking with my head by saying that or what?

 

Innocent flirting? Maybe she thought that you were a great guy, liked you and was just expressing that in a safe way. But just because she made a few flirtatious remarks doesn't mean that she had any intention of sleeping with you or taking it any further. And I'm sure, that when you started obsessing over the situation online (and it probably showed in real life), she decided to back off completely.

 

Destroying yourself over a few flirtatious remarks is completely pointless on your part and will get you nowhere, just make her feel more awkward around you. I'd hit the gym instead. Or take an extra job to take up all the time you will spend posting and obsessing over this situation, take the extra cash and hire an image consultant and get a makeover if you really feel that your are so unattractive that it's ruining your life. Or read a book on developing a realistic sense of self.

 

Also, how was she f'ing with your head? She just met you and assumed that you were a cool guy that could handle female company. How was she suppose to know that a few of her remarks were going to turn into weeks of obsession and self-torture? Don't blame on the girl for what you are actively doing to yourself (choosing to continue this obsession) instead of sorting yourself out.

[tiredofvampires]

Women don't flirt and make suggestive remarks with guys they find unattractive, generally speaking.

 

But this has been said ad nauseum in this thread already.

 

Either she found you attractive and toyed with you, Blues -- or she found you attractive and decided to clean up her act because for many reasons, this was the wrong situation and wrong guy.

 

Bottom line: you have some evidence that a woman found you attractive. You can beat that dead horse until it rises again from the grave with yet another question about the question about the question about the question. But if you have one second where you are able to take in the fact that an attractive girl expressed sexual feelings towards you at some point here, you could really call this "case closed." And after that, it's just you and your mind playing tricks on itself. You could in fact choose to view this as what it was: an attractive girl showing you sexual vibes and therefore, seeing you as viable for that. One step further than before, even though it all ends here -- in what, a week or so?

 

And this is where my earlier advice comes in. I'm glad you're in therapy and receiving medication, so you're being medically managed with this. But your mind is a much more powerful tool than you think and in the end, you're going to have to take responsibility for it. You need a thought that will stop other thoughts, without your having to continue down the road of compulsive repetition. I don't think you're ready for that because you don't want to stop thinking in this manic fashion. You're afraid of letting it go, as if you will understand something more by clinging to the way you do things. But you're going to have to see all of this as a function of disordered thinking, not rational thought. You'll have to make that leap, and want to.

 

It's also an insane world to base your self-evaluation on every move another person makes. You're high if they show you some positive feedback. You're low if they take it away. You're high again if they do again. You're low if they don't again. Up down up down up down, your self-image goes, all reliant on their every move. Is this the way you want to live? On a seesaw where nothing is constant about how you see yourself, it's only up and down based on every word, move and choice another person makes? It's NO WAY TO LIVE.

 

So to illustrate the act of seizing your own thoughts and arresting them:

 

"Okay, maybe she thought I was attractive."

 

"But! But then why would she NOT find me attractive anymore?"

 

"Why would she do this and that, and that and this, if she ever did?"

 

You have to be able to stop at that first sentence and when you find the "buts" coming in, say, "I see that my mind is 'doing it' again -- it's starting down a path that is a stream of inexhaustible questions that never end. There will always be THE NEXT question. There will always be THE NEXT doubt. There will always be a reason to create that doubt. My mind is a doubt-creating machine by nature. That's the way my brain is going wrong. It's like a photocopy machine stuck on "on", and it keeps spitting out copies and copies and only I can unplug this." You have to actually challenge yourself here, to regard your actual questions and "buts" as THE PROBLEM. To recognize that the problem exists with this girl BECAUSE of your mind, not anything in the particulars of this situation. So you can't solve a problem inside the mind anywhere but in the mind.

 

What if there were no such things as social norms and acceptable conventions of politeness and you asked this girl how she really felt about you and she said, "In the beginning, I found you attractive [and in fact, did she say something like this?]. You're a cute guy. But I can tell you're the type who would just get really stuck to me like glue, and keep wanting more and more, and when I told you I didn't want a relationship, you seemed to keep trying and hoping it might change with your behaviors. I can tell you don't have much experience or any, if at all, with girls, and are putting all these expectation on me. I don't want that kind of responsibility. And I KNOW you're the kind of guy who would fall apart if it went further, and wouldn't be able to take any sort of ending in stride. I just can't get involved with someone who is so deep in, and obviously wants something to happen really badly here. I'm just trying to chill on this trip, I'm going to be gone, and you are the kind of guy who probably would just keep obsessing about us and feeling hurt instead of going with the flow. So I had to back way way way way WAY off from this whole situation. It's not that you're not cute, it's just that it's all wrong and I know you want too much of me. And I'm not turned on by anyone who would end up obsessing about me."

 

There's a good chance this is EXACTLY what would come out of her mouth. And then -- would you rest knowing that at least she DID find you attractive, that validation being the goal?

 

Probably that wouldn't satisfy you. Because the line of questioning would start again.

 

And that's where you need mental antidotes. Not, "Well, that's all probably true. BUT! -- blah blah blah blah blah blah..."

 

You have to pretty much find a guillotine and bring it down on the blah blah blah blah, seeing it for the program it is. YOU have to stand outside of it and do this. You CAN do this with your mind. It only feels out of your control because you're in the dream, the program itself. Once you stand back and see it even once, and say, "Oh no, here we go again" you'll know that it feels much better. Not because you're ignoring reality, but because you are not willing to cater to every whim your mind tells you to, and believing everything you hear in your brain. It requires self-DISCLIPLINE.

 

I would like to recommend that you ask your therapist about Mindfulness Meditation -- if she knows anyone who teaches it, or if she's familiar with it herself. As the name suggests, it's a meditative practice, which means you're quietly sitting and working with your own mind. It's derived from some ancient yogic-like practices (not really yoga, and nothing physically exerting is involved), but it's been embraced and applied by many psychologists working in the mainstream, as it goes very nicely as a companion to CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy). I don't know if your therapist is a CBT person, and she may or may not know about Mindfulness Meditation (also in places called "Insight Meditation"), but it's used in clinical setting as well as non-clinical ones like meditation groups. If she is unfamiliar or can't refer you, do your own research to locate such a group. And look for some books on the topic.

 

I would say this has helped me more than any therapist, and I've got quite a list of them under my belt as well. I certainly believe you should stick with therapy. But you also need to decide that you're not some helpless bystander of your mind. And that every time you bring up another doubt, another "but", another twist with a "maybe" those are neverending and part of a very unhealthy dynamic, which will then translate into women wanting to back off eventually when (not if) they sense it, no matter how well you think you've faked it.

 

I have yet to see you in this thread say, "I realize I have a problem. I'm obsessing and it's not healthy and I want THAT to change. I want to work on this as hard as I can, because it's as unattractive as anything. I don't want this very unattractive thing to dominate my life."

 

Until you say that, there will be no change (in any part of your situation with women/life), just as an alcoholic can't change until they decide they have a drinking problem and it's messing them up.

[tiredofvampires]

I will add that you were on to something when you said "at least she sees I have friends."

 

The more you can focus on the other connections, bonds and interests in your life, the more her size will shrink. It's true for me when I'm hung up on someone, it's true for anyone. What you're doing is just an exaggeration of what everyone else does. You've crippled yourself mentally by confining your thoughts to her so much, the rest of life is only peripheral.

 

Share company and companionship elsewhere as much as you can, keep yourself busy with things you enjoy -- and remember, THAT is life. She is not LIFE.

[Skylark89]

I think, Blues, you need to quit trying to find a reason to hate her. Of course, you have every right to hate her...BUT she didn't lead you on; in fact, she was pretty upfront about not wanting to get into a relationship. And it's not like she was your long-time girlfriend and then, cheated on you. She just changed her mind. You really should try to stop creating a story in your mind to give you reason to hate her....or bash yourself for her not wanting to hook up with you. I understand it's easier to hate someone so you don't feel so bad (or foolish) for liking them rather than letting go...but in this case, you should just let go.

 

Also, remember to try and look at everything from her perspective. She's living in your house, with your parents, and sees you all the time. If she hooked up with you and things didn't work out or you both got into a nasty fight, it would make her situation really awkward and tense. (And knowing from my experience with studying abroad, it wouldn't be easy for her to change host families.) Furthermore, she's probably already stressed with her school work, so a relationship with a guy who is living in the same house would most likely cause a heck of a lot more stress.

 

If she has hooked up with this other guy, well...I can see how it would make more sense to her. She can easily avoid him for the rest of the time she's there, if they break up. That's a bit more difficult to do, when you're living in the same house as the guy.

 

To end: Let go. Move on. Quit beating yourself up about it. You're a great person, and you just need to believe it. If you don't believe in yourself, who else is going to?

[Bluesman89]

I have to say that you seem to really understand how my mind works and it does actually help me a bit when I see that.

 

 

Yes, her words went roughly like this.. ''When I first met you I thought you were pretty cute...... but now I see us more as kindred spirits''.

 

That pretty cute part was something I wasn't sure if I liked.. So that's another thing that's been plaguing my obsessive thoughts..

[XxJustMexX]

I've only hopped around this thread as it's way too long to read. Although I understand how some of you may be irritated at the OP's obsessiveness and "whining" as some of you have called it, I don't think being up-front and rude about it is going to make him feel any better. He's obsessive, so what? If it bothers you, stop replying. This obviously bothers him enough to converse about it with a bunch of strangers, even with all the rude comments I'm seeing. So apparently he's plagued by it and is depressed about the situation.

 

Everyone in these forums are obsessive enough to get online and type out their problems to complete strangers online, so why get on someone who's level of obsession is more than others'? Let the guy obsess. Jesus. If it makes him feel better to have a 30 page thread on his problem, then let him. It's what these forums are for. If it bothers you, then stop replying and let others who have more patience deal with it...

 

It's irritating that I see so many rude comments to people on this website. This website is supposed to help people, not worsen their depression and bring their self-esteem even lower.

 

I know people will say the whole "the truth may hurt" analogy but come on now. There's nicer ways to say the truth without being an ass about it.

[lalalollipops]

^ I think you need to read the whole thread to understand where some people are coming from. Alot of us have tried to help him repeatedly, explained things, suggested things, tried to make some sense for him, but it's falling on deaf ears time and time again? Some people are just feeling frustrated for him. They weren't being rude. It's more like 'darn, we're now sounding like a broken record, yet still, nothing is getting through to you.'

 

So yeah. Don't make assumptions until you know the full story =). No one wants to be rude. It's more the feeling on wanting to smash our heads against a brick wall.

 

At the end of the day, this only hurts him, the way he's just fixated on these things and not taking any of the advice. But it's still sad for us, bc you know, even though he's a stranger, we still want the guy to be happy no?

[Shudder]

Do you have any friends? I'm sure they can help you out and take your mind off all of this. besides look on the bright side, this girl is only here temporarily. so once she leaves you'll probably forget about all of it

[Bluesman89]

^ Well I suppose that's one thing that has improved for me after having this girl around. If it wasn't for her going off that night with the other guy, then I wouldn't have gone out to get drunk with my friend whom I hadn't seen in a while.

 

I had not hung out with friends (the few I have) for probably at least a year. I had literally been doing minimal socializing. And now I will be going off on a road trip with another friend of mine next Monday. So yes, I can at least say that I got something out of this...

 

Still without a girl though.

[capuccino83]

I think that you should first focus on developing friendships then focus on developing relationships. As you've seen, it's hard to maintain a sense of self when you meet someone you really like, but it's so much harder if you don't have another network to turn to, and a healthy sense of self is crucial to a healthy relationship. Also, past the initial how do I ask a girl out/does she like me/first few dates/does she want a relationship, the attracting part of the relationship ends and the building part begins to me is much more like building a friendship than attracting someone. So I think it'll be good for you to get in touch with your friends again and build some solid relationships there.

[superfox]

it's not you she finds unattractive but your behaviour.

 

you don't seem to respond to any reply that isn't specific about YOU and HER. If you've ever read this forum beyond your own threads you will see questions and replies and RED FLAGS all over the place, what you have been doing to her is waving your red flags, red shirts and red underpants.

 

basically she is attracted to you but you scared her off with your behaviour.

And now all I see on here is how much of a sex object you consider her to be as in 'filling a need'. you can't deal with a fling, a one night stand, whatever until you can understand yourself and thank GOD this women saw that.

 

Imagine for one second if you had been intimate with her? You'd be counting the days until she left devastated that you'd never see her again. You look for problems everywhere, relationships and flirting is meant to be fun, especially in the early days, it isn't a thesis to be pondered and picked apart.

[Bluesman89]

Well.... she will be leaving on saturday morning. So tomorrow is her last day here.

 

I think it's going to be difficult for me. Perhaps it is just a crush, but honestly no matter what girls I come accross I have not been able to feel the same intense level of attraction toward anyone else as am feeling toward her..

 

It hurts knowing that I really don't matter much to her at all.. even as a friend.

[Shudder]

I think you are feeling that because she was willing to hang out with you and she was your first kiss. i used to put my heart out when i was inexperienced but then i realized that there are lots of women out there with awesome personalities, so i don;t need to dwell on what was lost

[Bluesman89]

Oh god I've been left feeling really down now, for multiple reasons..

 

Firstly, I noticed that she uploaded two photos of me on FB (from the night we went for drinks with my friend), and I look atrocious in them. In one of them I swear I look like a gremlin. I am not photogenic, and now I am devastated that this is probably how she is going to remember me. Looking like THAT.... And then my friend standing/sitting next to me in both shots of course is a conventionally good looking guy, so that hardly helps ffs.

 

I simply don't upload pics of myself to facebook generally unless I have taken them myself in the right lightening etc. Oh god I am truly mortified..

 

And yes I am upset she is gone (she left this morning). I said goodbye to her last night, and I got the impression it really was no sweat to her at all. She treated it so casually, and that made me feel pretty sad. I had to hold back saying/doing something overly affectionate.. But really it was just me holding back. I was extremely emotional inside.

 

Now this morning I am left feeling ugly, unwanted and just a failure.

[dali]

Dry your eyes mate, you will be fine. But I'll say this, "IF" I was your friend I'd give you another 5 minutes to whinge and cry about this girl and if you didn't shut up after that 5minutes I'd punch you in the face or kick you in the balls.

 

Go out get drunk with some friends, let lose a bit you might find it easier to deal with.

[Bluesman89]

I acknowledge that it would be best for me to try forget about her but facebook is a curse in that regard..

 

She sent me a message immediately after she arrived home, saying she got back safe and that she misses Ireland already. It was nice to receive that from her but since we begun exchanging a few messages after that I have found myself going into obsessive mode again.. Except I'm analyzing my emails this time, instead of my words and actions.. For example I have not heard back after I sent my last mesage to her 9 hours ago and i'm constantly re-reading the message..

 

So it seems even now that she is gone from my home, I will still be unable to recover and forget.