Can a spouse safely have a platonic boy/girlfriend?

[mscolly]

I'd like to gather some opinions, and above all experiences about m/f platonic friendships between a spouse and a single.

 

The question is: can a wife have a boyfriend that's emotionally intimate and remains so over the long-term without ever overstepping the mark to become a lover?

 

In my case, I have to add that my 43 yr old wife had an affair with a 23 yr old through all of 2003, that she stopped and told me about in January. She broke off the affair with the unwitting help of another 20 yr old. All this happened on an on-line fantasy game. The 20 yr old has since become an intimate friend of hers, intimate in the emotional sense.

 

They did once over step the mark, with long languid eye-contact, cuddles finishing with a kiss. The consequences of this episode were terrible because in this case I discovered it before my wife could tell me, though she did want to. She was actually angry with the boyfriend that they started on this road, but it's also true that she had great difficulty in saying no to him (she didn't want to hurt his feelings, rather than she actually wanted a kiss).

 

The refound strength in our marriage of 18 yrs, our 5 kids, the age difference with this boyfriend, the fact that they've seen that they can overstep the mark and that the consequences the next time might be irrepairable, that my wife knows she is capable of cheating and lying, but at a terrible cost, all seem to indicate that they seem to know what they getting into. But do they really? Do they really see the risks or am I just paranoid, after last year's affair?

 

The boyfriend defines himself as somewhere between a friend and a lover. We all agree that the relationship they have is at least unusual, hard to define and hard to explain to others. I think my wife feels it is nearer to the friend part of the scale than lover, while the boy is nearer to the lover part, but that's me trying to put myself in their heads.

 

I think that really they are lovers that realise that their relationship would be impossible for so many practical reasons that they limit themselves to a strong friendship, it's the best they can have. They feel strong from the past experiences, that certain limits have already been explored and they know where they are. I, on the other hand, think that there is an irresponsibilty here, that a balance has been found, but it is an unstable balance. Future problems between my wife and I, a drink too many, any other destabilising factor could so easily push this balance the wrong way. Plus, the boyfriend doesn't have his own girlfriend; I would feel a lot happier if he did, it would be a stabilising factor.

 

Does anyone have experience of a triad or a friendship like this actually working in the long-run? Opinions anyone?

[Mun]

Hi there,

I feel that anytime you are sharing intimate things with someone that you should really only be sharing with your wife/husband you are putting your marriage in second place. You are allowing this other person the special intimacy that should be for your partner only. You become closer to this other person and before long you may cheat. The minute you seek comfort from someone other than your spouse--you are wrong. Your partner should be first in your life, no question about it.

 

I think that there can be healthy, platonic friendships between male and female under the right conditions.

 

In your case your wife has already shown a lack of good judgement. Her behavior has been very disrespectful to you by continuing with these friendships --maybe because she sees no consequences to her actions?

[sisterlynch]

I agree with the post above, she is crossing a line between friendship and lovers, and you have a right to be upset. Maybe she needs to give up the online fantacy game for a while so that you can learn to trust her again.

 

What was the extent of the relationship that you and she had last year, did she seem distant while she was having the affair with the other young man? Does she appear that way to you now?

 

 

She can have a friendship that isn't intimate, as soon as it is intimate, then it is inappropriate and she is better off not being with someone else.

 

Maybe if you talk to a counselor you can figure out how to communicate your feelings to her in a new way and maybe then she'll lose interest in these outside relationships.

[Celadon]

If even one person in a friendship thinks that it's romantic, that's one person too many and both should back off, I think.

 

Friends are friends. You share good and bad times, and they are part of your life, but your thoughts should be with your spouse, not your friend.

 

Perhaps after many years of marriage and five children your wife has hit a mid-life crisis and desires to be young and vital again. Knowing these young men is her way of coping. But it's not a method that is good for her marriage to you. Just imagine if you started taking up with 20-year-old women???

 

You sound like a very thoughtful and analytical person. I would encourage you to think about what you desire in this situation. If you have ideas on how to strengthen your marriage, present them to your wife with some determination and see what she thinks.

 

If, however, she's determine to have this emotional affair, there may be little you can do but distance yourself to decrease the hurt.

 

In marriage, almost everything is shared. When I am with my male friends who are married, I make a point to get to know their wives as well. Making a married person feel threatened or anxious is bad form, in my book. I wish you the best.

[peanut15]

I don't think its possible for a spouse to have a friend that is just emotionally intimate. At some point, that type of intimacy turns into something physical. However, I do think that one could have platonic friendships with the opposite sex. I do have male friends that are just friends. I consider them close friends but there is no attraction for anything else.

[mscolly]

Thanks for your posts. Perhaps I was colouring the replies with too many details of my position, but some of your comments are off the mark in my specific situation, I will add some more details.

 

There were consequences, muneca. Immediatedly they were bad, in the long run good. Our marriage is currently so good it seems impossible. Fireworks in bed (that there were never before). An honesty that was never as complete as this, though it was good before. A powerful love and hope for the future. We've come through all of this story 100x better than before.

 

sisterlynch, my wife was emotionally absent for a year. I saw it, my kids saw it, even her colleagues at work sensed something has changed drastically since last year. I saw something was wrong, thinking only that she was lost emotionally with this great friend she'd found on internet and this fantasy game, that caused her to set an alarm clock for 2 in the morning to go on-line on at least one occasion that I knew of. But, as far as I knew, they'd met physically twice, and never with a real chance of doing anything like cheating. I was naive and too little suspicious. I didn't take a 23 yr old seriously (and neither did she at first, that's partly how things slipped too far before she realised what was happening). This year is different, she has never been so present.

 

'K8tie Kool', my wife's thoughts are with me. They are also with this boyfriend, but I don't doubt that I am no. 1. He's clearly no. 2. That she's having some sort of mid-life crisis, that could be a component. She's always seemed to be older than her age, but she's stayed there, lets say 35. She now receives many compliments from many parts that she seems younger than her 43. I am 46, and show it, but no more and no less. As to how we are, the kids keep us young at heart and there is a streak of wildness and youth in both of us.

 

I too have known this boyfriend. He's stayed at our house, we visited his home with his parents once as well, we often talk in msn. What his parents thought about us 40 yr olds coming as friends of the 20 yr old son, I don't know exactly, but they seemed very happy to tell the truth. Perhaps they see us as a good influence on him. But that's yet another long story.

 

I would agree with you too peanut15. But it did already start to turn into something physical, the concrete danger was seen clearly and early, and they now know where the limits are.

 

Perhaps I should rephrase the question in a more personal way: should I insist on their breaking this relationship, since it is potentially dangerous, or is my paranoia getting in the way of a beautiful friendship?

[Mun]

Hi Mscolly,

I think the decision is your wife's to make. Whether to put her marriage as a priority--or the friendship with a 20 yr old ( that could turn into an infidelity). She should consider your feelings though. If it is bothering you, then why continue with it?

[sisterlynch]

As long as she is present in the marriage and you support her playing the on line game, then I guess it is ok if he is a part of your life too.

[Mike_Wazowski]

Bro..This is Definitely a 'When Harry Met Sally' senario!

 

The ultimate question in the history of the Universe: Can a man and a woman be friends without someone thinking about sex?

 

The answer is a definite NO. One party, usually the guy is always thinking about getting some and if the chance presents itself, He'll be 'In Like Flint'.

 

Trust me, it happened to me, and it is happening everyday, everywhere and in every country until the end of time.

 

tell your wife to lose the 20yr old friend or start shopping for a New Husband!

[sisterlynch]

If she is 43, can she really choose a 20 yr old guy for a husband? Really--what do they have in common outside of a 'fantacy game." She is a middle aged housewife and he is a young man, living at home. She has 5 kids and he is a "kid" to his parents. And his parents trusted him enough to allow these on line people to come stay in their home. What a unique sort of person he is!

 

Maybe she is just remembering when she was 20 herself! I think this is just a flirtation for her, nothing significant. He isn't going to steal her away, as he has nowhere to keep her. The husband even said that this relationship is improving the relationship with his wife. Maybe it is making her think that she is younger, there is nothing good about getting older...if you can't have fun.

[Celadon]

The boyfriend defines himself as somewhere between a friend and a lover. We all agree that the relationship they have is at least unusual, hard to define and hard to explain to others. I think my wife feels it is nearer to the friend part of the scale than lover, while the boy is nearer to the lover part, but that's me trying to put myself in their heads.

 

I think perhaps you're lacking information in this scenario, and that is contributing to the difficulty of deciding if this relationship is potentially beautiful or potentially dangerous, as you say.

 

Given that your wife had a year-long affair just last year, it seems wise for all involved to discuss their feelings (not their thoughts, their feelings) for one another in this specific case.

 

For example, what is the nature of their emotional intimacy? Is the boy going through rough times, and she's supporting him? Or is she telling him things about herself to which only he, for some reason, can relate? Or are they just ga-ga over online fantasy games?

 

People can be infatuated with one another, but that's usually less "personal" (and less dangerous, I would think) than an intimate relationship that encompasses each person's real life.

 

If I were you, I'd try to understand what is so important about this friendship your wife has developed. Only then can you determine if it is a threat.

[Serendipity1607307077]

Personally I think that a better relationship would grow if you use your husband as a person to talk to and discuss things with. Your husband should be your lover and your best friend..

 

So while I am not saying that it is wrong to have a male friend, so long as there is no sexual "happenings" , I still think that perhaps if there are issues that you feel you can't discuss with your hubby, you should at least try....

[mscolly]

Thanks for all of your replies, but the truth as always is wilder than fiction.

 

K8tie Kool: I'm not lacking information. If anything, I've got too much. We've all three (but I must admit not around the same table at once) discussed this. I with him, I with her, her with him. I with him has mainly been via email and msn, so perhaps it doesn't really count: you lack the spontaneaity and the body language. I must admit that I'm not sure a 3 way, face-to-face conversation would be a good idea. In the past (in msn I must say) it happened and I had the very deep impression that it was me against the 2 of them, that they were allies against me. I told my wife that afterwards, and she said that now that I mentioned it, I was right and she would avoid doing it again. But we were discussing something that I felt was not right, and they did.

 

The boy is essentially lonely. In crisis having just started university and not liking it. He lives in a town of 1,200 people out in the sticks.

 

I don't think my wife tells him things that she doesn't tell me. They talk about the boyfriend's problems, and I can understand that not everything is retold to me. Real secrets are probably very few, and don't involve me and probably don't even involve my wife.

 

What is so important to my wife about this relationship? There is the key I think, and I suspect that even she doesn't know with precision. We have talked about this a lot, and she says her heart is big enough to include friendships beyond being my wife and a mother. She talks about a great friendship, that they have very similar personalities and ways of thinking, but certain outlooks on life they have are diametrically opposite (politics, racism, religion, culture, art to name a few). I suspect it's a strange combination of friendship, a mother-son type of thing, an ego-trip knowing that someone fancies you but dares not take it any further, a fantasy lover and a revisitation of herself being 20 yrs old. The order and the magnitude of each of these aspects I don't know, and it has probably changed over these months.

 

The on-line fantasy game thing between them has finished. My wife never plays any more, he plays other games. Even there I had problems with the nature of the game, because for a period the majority of it was virtual-virtual sex. Net just virtual sex over Internet, but virtual sex between their two characters within the game. Someone try to decide if that's cheating! I thought it was, they said it was a natural part of the game.

 

My wife has tried to explain the relationships this way. Between myself and her, it's what you'd expect of a great marriage: lovers, best and old friends, honesty, openess. And it is. Between them, the word she says thet sums it up best is tenderness.

 

Unfortunately, that tenderness has a tendency to express itself physically as well. Hugs, walking hand in hand, kisses (limited to the cheek or forehead), caresses on the cheek. It also expresses itself as 10's of sms's a day and 2-3 phone calls a week. Some of these sms's are also signed with "I love you". I know that language here is difficult. Greek has 5 or so different words for different types of love, motherly, brotherly, erotic etc. But I'd be happier if it was avoided. On the other hand, just avoiding a word doesn't really change anything. Logically, they explain it's use, but it disturbs me.

 

Kommandant: my wife and I are best friends and lovers, better now than ever before in the last 24 years!

 

I don't understand if I'm going overboard with paranoia, for good reasons if you like considering past events, for a good friendship, or if something really is wrong here. Perhaps only time will really tell. But please keep up your good work here. Perhaps someone will have a point of view I haven't thought of yet.

[Mun]

Hi,

My totally uncensored advice is that you need to move that boy out of your house. I think that the situation lends itself to so many things. Your wife has already cheated once with a younger man and having one so close to her again...

 

Perhaps you haven't put your foot down about how you really feel about all this. Are you afraid she will leave if you do ? Are you afraid you two will lose this new found passion if she stops her frienship with him?

 

He needs to find friends his age that he can have fun and do things with. Your wife needs to do the same.

[Celadon]

Perhaps you haven't put your foot down about how you really feel about all this. Are you afraid she will leave if you do ? Are you afraid you two will lose this new found passion if she stops her frienship with him?

 

Muneca has hit it on the head. These are the key questions.

 

Mscolly, you clearly do not like this friendship. It's noble you're trying to be high-minded about it, though.

 

I suspect that unless someone posts here with advice that allows you to live with the friendship in peace (and reassurance), you'll end up saying nothing and putting up with it and hoping for the best. I hope that your wife and the boy will likewise act in your best interests. Peace.

[mscolly]

Ouch. And the head that's been hit was mine, not the proverbial nail's.

 

You said noble, you meant coward I think. Fear of rocking the boat that otherwise seems to be on the right course. You're probably right.

 

In my defence, it is a long-distance relationship, he lives about a 4 hour drive away. Time is on my side, they rarely get to meet, and not by themselves. Also, my wife has a rebellious nature: prohibiting something is like a red flag to a bull; I'd much rather she came to her own conclusions about this. But then, that could be me being cowardly, taking the easy way out.

[kate111]

My advice is: don't assume anything and don't try to fool yourself that you have some kind of unsaid understanding between each other because otherwise you are likely to be hurt when it becomes apparent that there is a difference between your views...

 

It sounds to me like you are both allowing her to have her affairs, or don't mind too much but then on another level you don't like it.

 

You need to work out how you really feel about monogamy and what your views are.

 

It is better if you know where you stand and both of you know the rules for what is and isn't allowed in your relationship. You need to talk about this and make it concrete.

 

Im not going to tell you what those rules should or shouldnt be. Only you know what you feel ok with. But once this is out in the open you will feel better.

 

That way, you won't have to worry anymore.

 

If you feel that you are scared to broach this topic with her then that should serve as a warning sound to you.

[Celadon]

Ouch. And the head that's been hit was mine, not the proverbial nail's.

 

You said noble, you meant coward I think. Fear of rocking the boat that otherwise seems to be on the right course. You're probably right.

 

In my defence, it is a long-distance relationship, he lives about a 4 hour drive away. Time is on my side, they rarely get to meet, and not by themselves. Also, my wife has a rebellious nature: prohibiting something is like a red flag to a bull; I'd much rather she came to her own conclusions about this. But then, that could be me being cowardly, taking the easy way out.

 

Mscolly, I hope your headache's better. Sorry if I hit a little hard. No offense?

 

I'm glad to hear the boy's a number of hours away. I sympathize with you over your wife's rebellious nature. That can add a lot of energy to a relationship, but also require a lot of energy and handling on your part.

 

By all means, continue to keep tabs on this issue. Be vigilant, if you are going to let it proceed. If it doesn't peter out on its own accord, there may come a time when you will need to act decisively and swiftly. I hope you won't need to, but be ready for your own sake.

[Purple_traveler]

I think under certain circumstances a spouse can have a platonic relationship. My wife has platonic friends and I have complete trust in her. Right now she is working in another country and the last thing I would ever expect her to do is to stay home bored. I have encouraged her to get out and see people, she has done the same with me. We are very open and honest about what is going on and it has worked well. I love her and have complete faith in her....

[mscolly]

Purple_traveler: My wife has platonic friends and I have complete trust in her ... I love her and have complete faith in her....

I'm glad to hear at least one voice that's says something different. The difference in my case is that she has one important platonic friend, someone she is emotionally intimate with. We love each other too, but unfortunately the trust on my side was seriously damaged by an affair that she had last year after 18 yrs of marriage. The trust with this friend was also damaged by a kiss that occurred 3 months ago. The consequences of that kiss were bad, in that I was violent with my wife, and my wife fell for a couple of weeks into a deep depression for all of the things that had happened in the past months.

 

K8tie Kool: Be vigilant, if you are going to let it proceed. If it doesn't peter out on its own accord, there may come a time when you will need to act decisively and swiftly.

I am vigilant. But it costs me energy and tests my peace of mind. We all three know that one more slip will mean the end, and that end could be bad for all concerned.

 

Two nights ago, I confronted my wife, after having prepared all of my arguments as to why this relationship was wrong to me. We talked, we argued, we made up. Yesterday, we talked calmly, all day, about this and many other things. And I was very happily surprised at how deeply she's thought about this relationship. I can see why she wants this friendship, and how scared they both are of it going beyond certain limits (i.e. becoming sensual/sexual/romantic). We all got a bad scare from the effect a kiss had on my wife (the depression), on me (the violence), on him (risked loosing a good friend and the good-will of an entire family and our friends).

 

I would feel happier if this friend just disappeared. But I also see that he is important, as a friend, to my wife. She would be terribly hurt if I imposed myself on her, and, as she says regarding the trust, if it wasn't this friend, I'd probably have problems and suspicions about someone else. Perhaps I can regain my trust, not by having nothing to be suspious of, but by seeing that even if I have something to be suspicious of, my wife can be trusted, that my suspicions are unfounded and she is worthy of trust.

 

Wish us luck.

[Mun]

Mscolly,

In order for you to trust your wife again she has to show you that she is trustworthy. In order for you to feel as if you are important to her, she has to show you by respecting you.

 

It looks to me as if she has done neither and she has no desire too apparently. Instead, she is shifting the blame of it back to you as if you are wrong in not trusting her.

 

Excuse me, but SHE is the one that made the mistake. You are only going with your gut instinct based on her previous indiscretions.