OCD, control and personality.

[dogwood]

So, I've recently come to terms with the fact that I suffer from OCD. I haven't been officially diagnosed, but it's very obvious that I have it, with all this repetitive checking behavior. I've been trying to cut down on it lately and it's starting to work, as hard as it is. Anyway.. this is not the point of my post.

 

I've been wondering about the relationship between OCD and control. Obviously the disorder is linked to the need for control, not being able to relax if you aren't certain things are okay.

 

But when I look at my own personality, I find that I am not a person who needs control at all, in many ways. I've let go of a lot of things over the past few years and find I am quite laid back compared to most people I know. I live life as it comes to me, one day at a time, and I have no need to plan things out meticulously and have everything be ultra-organized and in my control. I have no problem experimenting with drugs that put you in a completely uncontrolled state of mind, when many would be afraid or uncomfortable due to their need for control. I've experienced a many close relationships with difficult and unstable people, and been okay with it, and remained calm in many incredibly difficult scenarios. And I basically just go with the flow - I feel I can really accept things, and if * * * * f*cks up, so be it. I deal, and move on.

 

Anyway, this is what confuses me, about why I have OCD. As a person who is pretty chill and open-minded, why I do I have this seemingly unrelated disorder that demands control? Is this my unconscious talking, and maybe there actually are parts of me that demand control, I am just not consciously aware of it? I suppose mental illness is interesting in the way it facets our personalities, completely nonsensical in conscious reality but maybe just a more abstract way of expressing something quite present, underneath.

 

Who knows? I am just trying to form the link between OCD and the rest of me. I've heard stories of those with OCD who have completely stopped for good, and they said it really changed their personality and life. Will this happen to me if I stop for good? The strange thing is, it's a very new addition to my life and personality. It only started to emerge this strongly in the last few months; my whole childhood and adolescence I was OCD-free. And it only began a couple of years ago, reaching it's maximum about now. But I guess this is the typical age for emergence of mental illness. Yeehaw. Anyway, I'm just trying to figure this whole pickle out.

 

Clearly the OCD is also a form of anxiety, and I also do clench my jaw often, unconsciously, due to some small anxious thing happening to me.. but what am I so anxious about? Even when life is breezy and calm I am still OCD. So where does this anxiety and need for control come from? Has anyone else found the link between disorder and personality?

[Nerdyjock]

I think OCD can come off in many ways as nothing more than really intense forms of some personality traits. For example you mentioned how you're pretty chill but just in certain things you feel really tense/meticulous/etc. I have some quirky things about myself that I think can definitely be attributed to a few disorders, ESPECIALLY when I look at my "interesting" family history. I think the way I manage it is I try to find the strength in each. I tend to have some needs for control so I channel it: I plan me and my friend's vacations, for example, which works amazingly. See, my friends all love taking trips but they are all so "laid back" that if I leave it up to them, no planning ever gets done. They poke slight fun at my attention to details, but in the end I tell them "ok, you owe me this much money - we are staying at soandso hotel for X amount of nights". They actually appreciate that I take care of all the legwork, just leaving them to fork up the money - which makes my OCD/control tendencies line up perfectly with their mellowness.

 

Also, I have found a great guy with who I match up well. He is very fun-loving and more laid back than me. We work well because I can plan exactly what I like, and he likes it too just because he is really easy to please. What's in it for him? He tells me he gets to do a lot of things he would never have done himself just because he never would have taken the time to plan it out. So again it's all about compatibility. Do I wish I could be much more laid back? Sure. But I do see the good side of some mental disorders, and I think that is the key to managing them.

 

Point is, I really think you have a similar attitude as me towards mental illness. We are dealt the cards we have, we just need to try to draw the strengths from them. I feel like I have done a fairly good job at doing so. What about you? Do you think you have channeled your OCD tendencies into strengths or is it negatively impacting you?

 

To answer your question more specifically, I am a grad student in psychology and I can tell you the tanled web that is personality vs. disorder is really complicated. You really could argue that disorders are nothing more than extreme points of certain personality traits. On the other hand, you could argue that personalities are really stunted with the concept of a "disorder", which kinda "punishes" people for having personalities that are different from "average". I know in our classes we don't really see either way as the definite way, at least now for now. We see personality and disorders as factors of each other until we find a way to better explain them. In the mental health field, there is a lot of discrepancy among professional opinions. I think we just try to find as much common ground as possible that way we can help people deal with their issues - which is, of course, really important and necessary.

[Capricorn3]

So, I've recently come to terms with the fact that I suffer from OCD. I haven't been officially diagnosed,

I think the best thing to do would be to get an official diagnosis and take it from there. Once diagnosed by a professional, whether you actually have it, then they will advise you on how to deal with it and how to handle it.

[dogwood]

Nerdyjock, you raise some interesting points. But like a lot of people, I think you're mixing up obsessive compulsive disorder with just having a very controlling and perfectionisty personality? I have OCD, meaning I waste hours each day checking objects over and over again, doorknobs, stoves, glasses of water, etc. It's an actual disorder in the real sense of the word, I even have special numbers that are associated with my compulsions. It seems to me you just have some anal and controlling aspects to your personality

 

What I was actually saying is a bit the opposite of what you said. Unlike you, I don't have those perfectionist and obsessive detail-oriented aspects to my personality (well, I like making lists, but that's about it). I am in fact the opposite in many ways - I am messy, late, flakey, spontaneous, take lots of risks, and make lots of mistakes. I am organized in some other ways.. but i was trying to figure out WHY do I have this control-based disorder when I don't feel this extreme need for control in day-to-day life?

 

In terms of channeling OCD-tendencies into positive aspects, well again I think you misunderstood me a little. OCD-tendencies - meaning just being very organized and perfectionist and meticulous can of course have positive aspects - you will be punctual, you will make less mistakes, your life will certainly be smoother and perhaps more interesting in some ways like you said. But pure OCD the disorder, well, it's not really positive in any way, no matter how optimistic you try to be. Wasting time checking something, trying to pry yourself away but not being able to stop - ask anyone with OCD - it's pure torment. And I often lose sleep or am late because of it.

 

But in terms of what you said about personality versus mental disorder, I find that an interesting debate. I'm no grad student but I've learned a thing or two from my psychologist dad, or at least maybe I just analyze and ponder on my own a lot.. but instead of seeing mental illness as exaggerated or amplified personality traits - which may be part of the picture - I've just been thinking tonight instead, of mental illness as abstract expressions of your unconscious fears and desires. Very Freudian or Jungian perhaps.. but I've just made some connections about OCD and my personality which really backs up this theory.

 

I realized that I do, in fact have this same "need-for-control" in aspects of my personality that my OCD illustrates, just in unrecognizable ways to the conscious world. For example, when I do a ritual I am thinking "WHAT IF I do not check my piano 11.5 times, then it might fall off the stand and break?!" "WHAT IF I dont move this glass of water over to the other side of the room, then it might spill on my computer?" It makes no sense in conscious reality, but it is essentially expressing a need for control and a fear that if I do not make things ok, something bad will happen. I realized that I do this in my personality too. Sometimes I am overly-apologetic when I've done something wrong, and I am basically saying "WHAT IF I do not apologize enough and make everything ok? Will the person be angry? Will they ignore me? Betray me?" Or sometimes I don't get angry enough when I've been hurt. "WHAT IF I am too angry or mean? Will the person be hurt? Angry? Etc." I realized there is a fluid connection between these fears I express in social life, to the bizarre and more abstract rituals I perform due to my OCD - which explains the control aspect. It is merely my unconscious expressing its fear in just a less "normal" way. Perhaps the same could be said about other disorders. A schizophrenic may fear the TV people are spying on them, or have bizarre hallucinations, but perhaps underneath, this person is afraid of being judged?

 

Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but this idea seems quite interesting to me, and just tonight, has helped me learn a lot about myself and why I have OCD and how it relates to my personality. As a psych graduate, what do you know about this way of seeing things? Whaddaya think?

 

*Also, I didn't really address the point you made about seeing mental disorders as negative VS positive. That's of course another interesting way to look at things. Unfortunately with OCD, it's pretty hard to see it as positive, because in its nature, it is a very torturous and anxiety-making disorder - no two ways about it. But I agree that many disorders are twisted into a negative perspective when they don't have to be. I have a couple of bipolar friends who have accomplished a hell of a lot on their mania sprees. And even with something like schizophrenia, as f*cked up as it is - when you look at is just your unconscious expressing things a little more abstractly and interestingly than your typical person, even though at the core you may share the exact same fears and anxieties, what's so bad about it? Maybe people only suffer from it so much because most of the world functions differently. Scientists even did experiments where they used ketamine on people to "mimic" schizophrenia. If people are taking a drug recreationally to make themselves insane, there must be something positive about insanity

[Nerdyjock]

You're right, I was referring a bit more to OCPD (obsessive compulsive personality disorder) than OCD, with both being two entirely separate disorders.

 

I think the question you asked about my thoughts and the way you tied things together, all I can say is this: Psychology is merely a way for us to understand things. We can paint it 1,000,000,000 different ways but it doesn't make it more right or wrong. For example, I will probably never conduct Psychoanalytical therapy (Freudian), but his way is not wrong really. It's just a theory that one can support or refute depending on how you paint the evidence.

 

I want to make one thing clear and that is I am 100% open to being proven wrong, and I think that comes along with being a scientist. That being said, I really don't think we will ever come to 100% conclusive findings on many things that we currently consider mental disorders. However, I don't think that means our quest for knowledge is futile. I still can employ things I learn and help patients cope with their disorders. Whether we call it OCD or whether we call it gobblygook disorder, I gain enough satisfaction from being able to use certain techniques to help this person in front of me live a slightly better quality of life (note: I don't mean you of course, I am just saying if I had a hypothetical patient). I know a lot of scientists from the physical/biological fields would cringe at my attitude of being ok with this eternal grey area, but that's just how I am. (P.S. I know I may be getting off topic, but I am just going on a tanget from the discussion. I'll bare with your OCD'ness if you bare with my ADD'ness

 

If you are truly bothered by your symptoms, I encourage you to see a professional. I have many reasons for saying this, and honestly the first reason that came to mind has nothing to do with "fixing" you. Instead, I think that 1.) You seem very intelligent and introspective and therapy really is more of an avenue for personal growth than a way to "fix" a disorder 2.) regarding our discussion on how mental illness can be painted in so many diff ways, I can actually paint many of your symptoms to fit a different disorder. That's why, even though I believe it's possible the things you described were OCD, I can see many other features that I won't say here just because it may be a little distasteful to start "practicing" my training on a public message board. However, you're more than welcome to PM me if you want

 

Lastly, an interesting thought about Schizophrenia. Schizotpy, one aspect of schizophrenia, is a trait associated with hallucinatons and delusions. However, as a personality trait in SMALL AMOUNTS, it is associated with a high level of fictional creativity. I love thinking about this, because what separates a healthy amount of schizotypy (aka a creative fantasy author) from one who is outcast by society (the guy walking down the street claiming to know how the world is going to end?). These two cases are obviously discernable... but where is the line drawn? I love contemplating these things.

 

Whenever I get tangled in my mind with these ideas, I always come home to the central idea that I live almost every aspect of my life by: It's all about perception.

 

P.S. I may have a hard time addressing your questions exactly as they are a bit elaborated (no offense - because I am the same way when I think out loud), so if I missed some of them write them in really concise bullets for me and I'll try to answer better.

 

Edit: After rereading your 2nd post, I had some more thoughts. Let me give you an example. I tend to agree that your idea that your subconscious could lend itself to your OCD being a very Freudian/Jungian idea. Though that is not my theoretical orientation (I am more existential/cognitive/behavioral/humanistic), I can totally get that and I don't refute it at all. A lot of psychologists from orientations opposite yours would really have a hard time seeing it your way, but I don't. I just don't see it as black and white. Anyway, my point was this: let's say hypothetically they discovered a very specfic genetic abnormality that was causing OCD in people. However, we couldn't explain anything more than the fact that having this genetic abnormality caused OCD - would that overwrite the idea that OCD/other disorders are windows to the subconscious, or would it simply be a way of explaining how our subonscious actually works? I believe many biological fields would say that you should use the simplest theory possible when explaining something, as long as it encompasses everything (this is actually a physics law, i just can't remember the name). Going by that precedent, using the subconscious to explain it would be a way more complicated way of explaining the same thing. However, others may argue that the genetic aspect is way oversimplifying.

 

Just some food for thought.

[dogwood]

s*hit, i just read your response and really wanna write back (that end part got the gears in my brain turning again..) but i HAVE to get to sleep already, gotta be up in 5 hours. I'll PM ya tomorrow, likely when I should be sleeping, but when my brain decides to wake up.

 

 

*mmmm. thought food.