How to stop putting women on pedestals?

[LightbulbSun]

This might be a long post...not sure how long this will be.

 

For the longest time, I've put women on pedestals. I remember, back in high school, I was always like, "That's the girl I'm gonna marry!", and then I would crush on her endlessly...that is, until I asked her out and got rejected. This stung so badly that I became depressed (and, in some cases, suicidal), and so I would hesitate before asking out the next girl I developed a crush on.

 

This fear has followed me into my late 20's. I haven't asked out a girl since I was 19, and a senior in high school. The last girl I asked out (let's call her K), I crushed on for nearly 3 years before getting up the guts to ask her out (and of course was rejected.) That one stung the most, because I never felt that way about any other girl up to that point...and I just said screw it, I wasn't going to ask anybody else out. I was just going to let them come to me.

 

However, that didn't work, because I would get debilitating anxiety around beautiful girls, especially if they threw themselves at me. They could hand themselves to me on a platter, and I would still fear, because I still remembered the rejections and how much they hurt. At the same time, I would put these women up on pedestals, which would make them...less human. They were beautiful (to me), so they were unattainable. I had no experience (and still have no experience) at attaining them, so to me they were out of reach.

 

I also have NO anxiety around beautiful women, if there is definitely no chance of me getting with them. Take my friend's girlfriend, for instance. She is absolutely gorgeous, someone I would have trouble talking with if she hadn't been dating my best friend. Since she's unavailable, I'm able to look her in the eyes and carry on normal conversation. That's in sharp contrast to how I would have reacted if she wasn't in a relationship, or was chasing after me. Then I would be looking down, not making eye contact, and all conversation would be choppy and awkward.

 

In fact, I've pretty much tricked myself into believing that NO attractive girls are interested in me, even if I don't know if they are single. That way, I can actually talk to them, and become friends with them. If I ignored that, and went with my instincts (which would be to be romantically interested in them)...then I would be a mess again.

 

Anyway, how in the world do I break this cycle? How do I stop putting attractive women up on pedestals, unless (of course) I ignore that they could possibly be interested in me, in which case I'm able to talk to them? How can I be interested in them, and find them sexually attractive, without turning into a huge mess? And how do I express myself sexually, without feeling like I'm being a pervert, because I put them up on a pedestal (and that's apparently not what women want, they want to be treated as equals?)

 

Basically, I feel completely confused about my life right now. When I say that I don't see myself ever getting out of my situation, THIS is exactly what I mean by that.

[Gullible]

You wouldn't be sexually attracted to your mother. That's sick.

 

But these girls aren't your mother. They want you to have sex with them, because that's what you're supposed to do. And you want to.

 

And that is the one element that changes everything for you: the thought of being sexually involved with a woman. If that's not a possibility, then you're comfortable. When it is a possibility, you subconsciously sabotage that possibility. When she seems attainable, you make her unattainable in your mind.

 

You have split relationships in half, trying to make 2 things out of 1: Love and Sex. If a girl is "for love" then she can't also be "for sex". You would never! You could never - not think about that beautiful perfect angel as an object of sexual lust.

 

I could go on, but I recommend that you get some of your photos of a recent love obsession, one of the perfect ones (I know you have pictures to gaze at longingly) and just look at her body and imagine having sex with her. When you masturbate, stop thinking about girls you don't have a crush on. Am I right? You refuse to fantasize sexually about the ones you're in love with? Well, start. Bring those two things back together.

 

Then you can work on realizing that women are kind of funny, even a little stupid, from a man's point of view. They need you to step up and set them straight sometimes. Don't get me wrong - plenty of women are very intelligent. But not the ones you have crushes on, are they? Not intellectual like you, in any event.

 

And some of them like that about you. They are flattered that someone as smart as you would like them, because they are intimidated by smart people, not believing themselves to be very smart. And there you sit, biting your fingernails, scared to death of some GIRL who is worried that she'll sound stupid in front of you.

 

Do you know what girls think about? It's something like this: "I think the reason I'm totally addicted to shopping for bamboo home decor is because my soul is the same as the soul of a panda! I love pandas, that's why I have these posters, figurines, and stickers of them. These stickers are shiny, I love that!"

 

And when you come and go, talking about Michelangelo, these girls are mystified. Their hearts flutter and their bodies shiver, their minds are titillated with the mystery of who you are and what's going on in that head of yours. Yes, you are mystified by them as well, but that is why your job as a man is to get over it and be the aggressive one. Someone has to break the ice, and that is you. Deal with it, accept it, you're the man. Do the work.

 

When you were a child, your mother had complete power over you. Womanhood meant respect and awe. You were mystified by her secrets and her authority. But that was a long time ago, and you are not a child. You will no longer be a little boy when a woman speaks. You will be a man.

[ledi]

this is a habit you've had for a long time, and it's something that you kept up during important formative years, so this will not be easy to get over... it will take practice and effort and time.

 

When you look at a girl who you think is beautiful, what goes through your mind when you are talking to her? Are you worried she is judging you?

[Cadence44]

Do you know what girls think about? It's something like this: "I think the reason I'm totally addicted to shopping for bamboo home decor is because my soul is the same as the soul of a panda! I love pandas, that's why I have these posters, figurines, and stickers of them. These stickers are shiny, I love that!"

 

Uh, we do...? Gullible, you should probably expand your interest to include girls that have already graduated pre-school.

 

OP, try not to place all of your hopes and dreams upon a girl that you want to ask out. If you build it up in your mind, you've got more to lose when you approach them. However, if you keep it limited to "she seems cool. I'd like to get to know her" then the stakes aren't so high. Plus you might be giving signals that you're already invested in the outcome and that's alot of pressure to put on someone.

 

Women are people too. They have insecurities and worries of their own. Try not to avoid eye-contact because that will make them feel like you don't like them. Don't feel like you have to be completely confident and cool. Displaying a little nervousness can be really cute.

 

Start practicing making eye-contact and smiling at strangers that you pass by. Watch their reactions - you'll probably get a big smile back.

[FathomFear]

You do really believe all of that? I mean, come on...

[LightbulbSun]

Gullible, you're wrong. I do have sexual fantasies about girls I know personally. That has never helped, because I can never include them in my real-life interactions. I think because I find myself so repulsive, and don't see them as finding ME attractive enough to date.

 

In fact, most of the women I masturbate to have been or are crushes. Doesn't make a difference. Maybe that's part of the frustration, because I know I'll never know them as anything more than friends.

 

And Cadence, I do recognize that women are insecure, too. That's not the problem. The problem is seeing their flaws, when I see them as beautiful. Right now, I could point out the imperfections of a current crush...but when I'm sitting there, talking to them, I see them as perfect, and therefore have to make them unavailable (in my mind) in order to be even slightly coherent around them.

[LightbulbSun]

And also, I don't like stupid girls. The high school crush I was talking about, you know, that I didn't ask out for 3 years? She was one of the top students of the class, and was considered by many to be nerdy (even though she was pretty.)

 

Another problem that I have is that, most often, I DO get hit on by women that are much less intelligent than me, and I have no attraction to them because of that. It doesn't matter if they're a runway model (I was actually asked out by a girl who looked like Jessica Simpson's twin a few years ago, and I rejected HER). What increases the pressure is when they're both beautiful AND intelligent.

[Gullible]

Gullible, you're wrong.

 

Fair enough.

 

I remember from another thread you said you had kissed girls when you were drunk, but they weren't girls you cared about. So you don't have a problem seeing certain girls as inferior to you.

 

But I made some inaccurate guesses, not knowing you personally, and I understand how that makes for bad advice. My experience going through very similar feelings as what you're describing might not be so similar after all, and the ways I solved my problem might not work for you.

 

Anyway the consensus is to ignore my posts, so I'll let these other guys and gals tell you how they stopped putting women on pedestals and finally had sex at a late age.

[LightbulbSun]

Fair enough.

 

I remember from another thread you said you had kissed girls when you were drunk, but they weren't girls you cared about. So you don't have a problem seeing certain girls as inferior to you.

 

But I made some inaccurate guesses, not knowing you personally, and I understand how that makes for bad advice. My experience going through very similar feelings as what you're describing might not be so similar after all, and the ways I solved my problem might not work for you.

 

Anyway the consensus is to ignore my posts, so I'll let these other guys and gals tell you how they stopped putting women on pedestals and finally had sex at a late age.

 

Uh, I must have been drunk if I wrote that, because I don't remember ever writing that. I've never kissed a girl (except on the cheek.)

 

I think you have me confused with someone else.

[ledi]

I think it's about finding a balance - you are easily captivated by beautiful women and it makes you nervous, that's common!

 

So you think that you fantasizing about these women in your own time is a contributing factor to this problem?

 

You say you find yourself repulsive? well that's another thing to work on. Negative self image wont help the situation.

[Gullible]

I think you have me confused with someone else.

 

 

That is probably one explanation for why I thought I knew your situation and was completely wrong. Also I didn't get much sleep, guess I'm having a bad day. Sorry.

 

I think it was because we both write and record music at home, that's what I remembered you from.

[LightbulbSun]

I think it's about finding a balance - you are easily captivated by beautiful women and it makes you nervous, that's common!

 

So you think that you fantasizing about these women in your own time is a contributing factor to this problem?

 

You say you find yourself repulsive? well that's another thing to work on. Negative self image wont help the situation.

 

I don't think me fantasizing about these women is a contributing factor. After all, how many guys fantasize about their female friends, yet they're successful with relationships?

 

When it comes right down to it, it's probably the way I feel about myself. I don't see myself as a catch...even if these girls do. So I therefore sabotage myself, time after time.

[LightbulbSun]

Now that I reread your post, Gullible, I agree with this:

People with social anxiety can sometimes benefit by a little bit of applied "I'm better than those people". They feel beneath others, so it certainly won't hurt them to briefly imagine themselves as above others. What would be arrogance in a normal person is, for this person, only a healthy balance to correct the self-loathing.

 

If you take your shirt off and worry that girls will disapprove, just look around and ask yourself: "Who is here that I need to impress? I have recorded over 100 of my own original songs. Have any of these people done that? I can certainly hold my head high among this crowd, they might have some things going for them but I'm the only one in this room who knows what I know and has seen what I have seen."

 

You're absolutely right. Although I don't want to become cocky...it's a matter of confidence.

 

But you're right in that I shouldn't take people's negative reactions to heart. If someone looks at my upper half and calls me fat...well, I wasn't always fat. And it's not like I'm not trying my damndest to lose that weight. And there are plenty of fat people at college, I doubt I'm going to be the only overweight person in the class.

 

I guess what I should do is just not take it personally. I know I could kick their asses in a singing contest...so what if they're more muscular than I am?

 

The problem is that, while I can apply the above to friendship with women, I can't apply it to dating. Because dating is a looks game; I recognize it, and so obviously good looking women will recognize it, too. Those girls that flirted with me didn't see me naked...would their opinions of how attractive I was change if they did? After all, I 'hide' my belly the best I can, with black shirts that make people think I'm losing weight instead of staying the same. That is what I'm afraid of...shedding those dark clothes, and making people see the real me. And the possible negativity that comes from it, especially from attractive women that I would be interested in.

[Gullible]

There are a few different things going on with you. First, you have to separate feeling inferior to women from feeling inferior to men. You say you can't compete - but you're talking about other men. If it's a competition, then there must be a winner. So if you see it that way, then you have to recognize the times when you were winning. When a girl was interested in you instead of all the other guys, you had already won.

 

But if a woman is interested in you, she's not thinking of other men. When she gives you her attention, don't throw it away. When a girl finds out about your music, she will be too busy being impressed by you to think of other guys. How many good-looking guys do you know? And how many songwriters as good as you? The girls you meet don't know any either. You have something that no one else has.

 

Next, what's this about wanting an equal? Don't you see women as better than you? That's not equal. Women want an equal too. And just as a woman's smile can turn a 5 into a 10, your smile and your personality can turn you from whatever number you think you are into a 10.

 

If you truly see women as equals, then act like it. Give them a chance. You assume they're too shallow to be attracted to you, too dumb to understand you, too unsophisticated to appreciate your talents. Yes, that is your attitude.

 

And don't you have the same paralyzing fear of rejection in other areas of your life? You won't share your music with people because you're afraid they won't like it? Be careful not to expect everything to be perfect in life. If you aren't universally recognized as the best in every way, you'll take your ball and go home?

 

You let bad news affect you a lot more than you let good news affect you. When people tell you that you're kind and fun and smart and talented, you think "they didn't say I was stunningly handsome as well. They hate me."

 

But that brings us back to the pedestal; no woman is perfect either. When you treat one like she is perfect, she knows that you don't see her as she truly is. She wants someone who sees her flaws and accepts her anyway. And that is what you should want too. The goal isn't to be perfect so that you'll finally be good enough, because what you're really seeking with that is an easy way through life, a full shield against rejection, a big safety blanket. You don't need it.

 

What you need is to stop focusing 100% on the woman, because that's your way of directing attention away from yourself. Imagine yourself telling a woman something you don't like about her, but still wanting to be with her. Imagine a woman telling you something she doesn't like about you, but imagine that it's not that big a deal.

 

She says, "Well I generally date fitter blokes." You say, "I'm the fittest one present at the moment, so do you want to go to lunch with me or not?" And she laughs, charmed by your confidence, and she goes on a date with you.

[LightbulbSun]

^^ Makes a lot of sense, and I agree. I need to stop beating myself up, right this minute.

[Gullible]

Look, dating is not a contest of looks. It's not. The way you see the world is not reality.

 

Have you seen a beauty pageant? There's only one winner, yeah? So, in your mind, the winner is the only one that can get a date?

 

#1, looks are subjective. Not everyone likes the same look. So with that we already have multiple winners in any group.

 

#2, it's not all about looks. Would you trade your intelligence and talent to be the stupidest, most boorish, but best-looking man on campus? No? If YOU don't think looks would be a fair trade for personality, then why do you think women would see it as a fair trade? You're not treating them as equals.. Most of them already prefer you to the handsome boor. The shallow ones don't, but you honestly don't want those girls anyway.

[LightbulbSun]

You're absolutely right. And some girls are attracted to chubby guys. Something about the security, or something.

 

I know I've had girls that my friends were going crazy for, and I didn't see what the big deal was. Even when Britney Spears was considered the epiphany of sex appeal, I didn't find her attractive. I always liked Christina Aguilera more.

[ledi]

lots of women are attracted to chubby guys...

[DN]

Thread closed for flaming and disrespect.