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rich 1517 - its done


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Well we talked.

 

i cant fault anything i did, i believe with anyone else it would have worked. she just waited too long to leave and maybe nothing was left.

 

there is the possibility, she even said it herself that missing me will be the thing that turns her feelings around. she said she wishes she felt different but she sees me as a friend. this is one of those truly sad stories.

 

she wanted to know what this meant her not having feelings right now. and that she cant commit to working on something, she feels its been said. meaning she feels needs have been talked about and its not that. that she would be faking it right now.

 

i said it means i start dating and looking for something new. that i have no wish to see something that mattered a great deal to me turn to nothing and to meet each others "new loves'

 

she was very sad. she wanted to know if i would do coffee tomorrow. i said no. so begins no contact with no goal other then forgetting. i will miss her i wanted to marry her. this was the last card to play.

 

have hope if you are trying out there to get them back. she truly wishes she felt more, she already knew i was a good catch and everything else i have done and become she loves. but not enough.

 

this is gonna hurt. i have to have the strength now to keep her away if she has nothing to offer. she will call, or she may not, but i know what is there and it is painful.

 

i hope that my loss to her will do it. i have set up dates now for pretty much every time i need one. i just have to operate with integrity.

 

i timed it pretty crappy for her, she invited me to go with her and her son to san diego for three days. and all i could imagine was sleeping on the couch. she has him for three weeks which allows me time knowing she cant date while i can. meaning she cant build in as much distraction from her feelings. but then she doesnt have any...

 

i am second guessing. maybe three days would have done it. being around each other for that much time.

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Rich, hang in there buddy. I truly believe you did the right thing. I've been following your posts, and I honestly believe this situation had gotten too consuming and unbelievably stressful for you. You did everything you could, and you also did it well - although it didn't end with you getting her back. I have a lot of respect for how much you genuinely cared about her, and I have even more respect for the fact that you realized you were suffering too much and needed to get this resolved before it drove you nuts. You did the right thing, I really believe that. You will fully heal, although it may seem at times like that's impossible. Know that this forum is here for you, you really won't have to go through this alone.

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rich_1517,

I have been following your story as well because I am in the same situation. I, too, have began no contact with no goals except to move on, but it feels so much better knowing I made a final decision as you have. You are truly a gentleman who believes in his heart. I admire that very much. Hang in there and just know that your story has touched all those who have read it.

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hmm. all it takes sometimes is someone to say "wait" and mess you all up. a couple people said "so now what will you do when she comes around?" i said what?

 

its true this is the first time i have said both "daiting others" and "if you cant go further i move on" and meant it.

 

i have to operate like its over, but that just threw a wrench at me. yes i know the impact of dropping someone and competition i just dont know if she will respond.

 

its very hard when you have an ex who wants to find their feelings and keeps showing up for it. we spent whole days and nights with each other. she has never broken a date, and has now been planning.

 

i did culitivate based on her needs and attention and support. that is true. i guess ihave to be extremely strong now and not give in to the little pushes that may come. (her calling) she already wanted to do coffee today.

 

i suppose i could drop her a line in a week or two about her stuff, and do a drive by. i just dont know.

 

doubt will bother me for a while on this one. the trip to san diego really sounded like a real attempt by her and i would love it. if anyone can see something in here, let me know.

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Rich, you were absolutely right to do it this way! Really and truly, I do not think you had any other options left. You were putting so much time, energy and effort into this, that it possibly would have eaten you in the end, had you gone on like before. You had to make this step in order to gain clarity for yourself.

I do not believe that three days in San Diego would have changed her mind about that. Either she has feelings for you or she has not... Where there is nothing, there is nothing to wake or to build up by being around. So you did the right thing.

 

Then again, being gemini, there are two hearts beating in my chest. I mean, from my story, you know that I am pretty much the emotional type of person, not really thinking about actions but rather doing what is feeling right, trying to sense how the other person feels. You said that she was very insecure about her feelings, always trying to hide them, as if she was afraid of being hurt. This might have been the reason for her answer. I am not trying to give you any hope here, do not get me wrong! It might just be however, that she has feelings for you but is just as much afraid to show as she is to tell you about them. She still asked you for that coffee, so obviously, in a way, she wants to be around you. She is kinda comfortable being with you. She might even not want to lose you, as a friend or lover or whatever. She has serious issues with herself I guess. And I do not think that answering the way she did was easy for her...but seeing as I do not know her personally i might be wrong on this one.

 

So keep your head up, because life is good! You could not have gone on that way forever... Good luck!

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she came by today, i dodged coffee, but she still had my wallet. she called when i was already home so i said sure drop it off.

 

i was tired and sunburned from work but very very relaxed. i didnt talk, she talked and was nervous. twenty minutes of her talking about her work. she never talks this much about her work. so i switched into listening mode, this is good for me to keep practicing.

 

i learned a while ago to be interesting be interested. so i just listened and confirmed what she would say. but i offered nothing. then i started to show i was tired till she got the message it was time to go. about half an hour total.

 

she said we'll talk. i just nodded. and realised that i turned away without saying much. so i waved.

 

i dont understand her. i dont know how someone can so totally block off their feelings. that isnt a "dont you love me thing" you dont try so damn hard to keep someone in your life as she has and be unable to express anything. she has admitted the only person she misses ever is her son. her mom, dad, everyone else she just doesnt let it get her. so dont bank on me either.

 

so my only plan now is keep moving forward. i may be wrong about packing dates in as distraction. im not interested in building a list of scores, just distraction, apprecation, giving attention wheres its appreciated and now if something happens i may not fight it.

 

I dont want a year or two of longing, im going to start actively purging her from my system. she has about a month im guessing before i will see her behaviour as it has been and realise i am better off without her.

 

i am sad, we matched in so many ways its scary she even admitted it. but without desire there is no motive. sigh.

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so the struggle begins, the doubts, the second guessing.

 

perhaps i should have said yes to san diego

 

maybe she just needs time to open up

 

something is blocking her feelings

 

she loved the kissing at one week after break up, what happened since? (wish ihad asked her that one)

 

this is hard....

 

i wouldnt take much for me to jump back in it. but i think i have to stay the course and now let her feel my loss, she obviously doesnt get it, becuase wanting to see me the day after i say im moving on and then talks about work.....?

 

she is numb to all feelings. how the hell did i fall in love with someone that shut off at times? she is kind and considerate and may other things that are wonderful, but how can you ever resolve anything if you wont look at your own feelings?

 

one thing i have not posted here is she loaned me money when things got hard. i refused then said ok, its a couple of grand. could she really be hanging in there out of fear. i should write her an email, or just send checks as my finances improve. its been kind of embarrassing becuase i used to make 100k. this is a priority for me.

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I ALWAYS think that if things were meant to be..they will happen. You can't force it..you can't make someone love you..they need to realize it on their own. And sometimes that takes time. Wildly weird thing is that, once you really, honestly let go..the most amazing changes can happen..within you and your/our exes.

 

I think you are finally ready to let go. You have worked on yourself..you have worked on the relationship. You are a better you.

 

Let's wait a bit and see what good things happen. As I KNOW good things will happen Rich. It might not even turn out the way you think it will or when you think it will. At least, that's what I've always found in life. It has never, ever turned out otherwise.

 

I heard on tv the other day..that life keeps sending lessons your way over, and over and over again..until you go 'aha. ok..I get it.' In this case, your 'aha' may be that you know you need to let go..but still be very, very kind to her. No angry words, no 'I never really loved you anyway'...nothing like that. No need to toss yourself into a string of meaningless relationships to give yourself a quick ego boost. We've all done that in an attempt to 'recover' but that is fleeting. It's fine to date..but keep in mind the women you are dating have feelings too. You may not be ready for much now..so if you go out intending to date 'as friends' please make that known to them in advance. Treat their spirits as you would like yours treated. Be kind. Be caring.

 

A woman (at least I) typically shut down emotionally when I am hurt, scared of being hurt or confused. Your ex may be all three. And I typically only come out of my shell if there is support...without feeling I'm being pushed. Know what I mean? If you can be kind to her on some level..while maintaining and protecting your own self esteem..please try that. It's the right thing to do.

 

Good luck. I guarantee you will be surprised at what life has on its way. Get up, dust yourself off...be HAPPY with what you have become and are...and all will be well. Absolutely, positively. Swear on a stack o' bibles!

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Hi Rich

 

I have been following your thread for a while and just adding so of my thoughts.

 

I just want to give you a big hug to take away some of the pain that you are feeling as I am in a very similar situation. My ex Bf/Fiance called the wedding off and proceeded to shut my out emotionally to the point where I was blamming myself for everything. I am having counselling (we both started but after he kicked me out I continued with it) and she has told me that my ex has an attachment disorder which is why he will shut everything out, all emotions and ultimately ME! This is a cycle that he will continue with because whether he knows it or not he wont face his problems which stem from early childhood. It has been 7 weeks of hell since he left me and had no contact for 5 because he wont talk to me at all. For full thread see

 

link removed

 

Whilst you have had the courage to look at yourself and improve or tackle your problems your Ex isn't. It sound very similar to my ex whereby she doesn't feel that she is in a safe place to tackle them or thinks that nothing is wrong and in so decluding herself.

 

All I can say is that I admire you very much for having the strength to do what you have and understand the pain that you are feeling, it is so hard knowing that with a bit of work you could have something so beautiful it would make you cry but you can't make the other person do it, we there for come into the catergories of Women (or men) who love to much and the other person just shuts us out. It make me so sad knowing that but know I have to consentrate on me and what I want, you must do this also, I know it's hard but just hanging in there.

 

I hope this has helped but remember these are my thought so please don't take offense.

 

Dragonlady

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Rich

 

You know my thoughts on this. You have done all that you can do, and with dignity. You should be proud of your achievements, by your own admission, you are a better person as a result of this.

 

I know that it hurts toooo much - one day you might find the benefits this whole horrible process has brought both to your life and to you personally.

 

Lots and lots of luck.

 

G xx

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you guys are great. i sent her an email about money this morning, just saying hey i know and you may be worried, i am taking care of it.

 

the email was considerate and very dry. i didnt realise the shift in my tone of everything right now. its polite but distant, like someone i havent talked to in a while. its weird.

 

no i wont do angry becuase that says that the changes, the support, and all my efforts had a hook beyond unconditional love. so no i will be friendly and nice but firm on space now.

 

lets remember that she left, came back and basically said well we can date and see.

 

i asked her monday, if the roles were reversed would you stay? she said no.

 

the two points you guys raised, one that she might not feel safe enough to deal with her feelings is kind of true but its more about her not feeling as though theres anything to share or change (second point). she says i want to try more, she says she wants more passion, but she is lazy lets face it. she never wanted to work on herself during the relationship why would she now? she doesnt change, she resists it like plague, i gravitate towards it. so there ya go.

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she called three times today no message. in response to my email im sure. i wont call back.

 

im holding out a 1/10 hope that this will turn her. i cant afford more then that. i cant allow myself too much caring.

 

but how should i respond when she calls?

 

how much should i tell her about dating? the two women we will call J and C are very beautiful and she knows them. I was dating her and C three years ago, and chose her. J she knows from me buying a bracelet for her from J, shes a former model and well, it doesnt get any better in terms of sweetness and beauty, i dont like jealousy. but i am being honest about my intentions with everyone, its distraction and occupying my time.

 

my temptation if/when she asks is to say, i dont want to bring manipulation or jealousy into it. then if she asks again tell her the truth.

 

I told C that i care for her feelings, that i am rebounding and its ok i just like seeing her. She said "can we have a fling then?" jesus. ummm sure i think.

 

i have to relearn no contact. but.. with the added caveat that any getting together is based on a committment or at least a desire from her. if she has a desire for me then the rest follows. not counting on it.

 

still difficult. i dont like the loss but i can live with it. there are really bad moments, and some real return of self, and direction.

 

i had a moment when i considered getting back together with C, the whiplash was immediate, deep longing for my ex. better watch that.

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i am going day by day now. the loss is hard. i am wanting to go completely no contact. the "ideal" pops into my mind.

 

i mean the cut off, no answered calls, no response. this is hard i am not sure why i wouldnt do this, but i dont know if i really want to continue to let her get little fixes of me at my expense.

 

I dont want to say go away, i need time on that. and no it wouldnt be "go away", it would be "we have to face what this is now, its over, i need you to let me contact you now when i am ready to be your friend and only your friend" I just dont have that yet.

 

does anyone see any reason i should keep communication open at this point? to be fair to both of us i do not want her to feel like i am holding her back and i definitely want her to get the message that i am not holding me back either.

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the two points you guys raised, one that she might not feel safe enough to deal with her feelings is kind of true but its more about her not feeling as though theres anything to share or change (second point). she says i want to try more, she says she wants more passion, but she is lazy lets face it. she never wanted to work on herself during the relationship why would she now? she doesnt change, she resists it like plague, i gravitate towards it. so there ya go.

 

well, dealing with her feelings in a relationship versuses dealing with it on her own are 2 different things. i think she is dealing with it on her own at her own pace. i don't think it's so simple that she has sweeped it under the carpet. she seems unable to deal with her emotions under the scope of a relationship, which has added pressure. but i can assure you she is dealing with it, because it's at the surface. you can't assume she isn't dealing with it. in fact, that's why she is calling. if she swept everything under the carpet and masked everything, calling you just brings it back up.

 

that being said, i'm in the same situation as you. and i have maintained contact, although sparse. but my ex hasn't been hounding me or meeting up with me. it's been about a month since i've seen her. we're meeting next week for coffee. i initiated, but to a very welcome reception. not sure what it all means and trying not to have expectations. but the more i kill my expecctations, the less i feel like going through with the coffee date. it's all so complicated. best of luck to you (and me), rich.

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i think you should keep communications open, but be very cordial, no relationship talk. it'll be tough, but if you can conquer that, you'll not only keep an open mind and heart, but in the long run it'll be a smoother transition, then no contact. i think no contact is like cold turkey in drug addiction. you can go cold turkey and stop doing the drug, but you can't be around it without panicking. with weening off something, you'll be able to be around it without panicking. of course drug addiction is a matter of life and death, and cold turkey is probably better, a relationship isn't life threatening, so weening seems tougher but better option.

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I am clearly in a contrary mood this week, because I always look at Ziggystar's posts and think hmmmmm ... great advice!!! However, I disagree with the last one.

 

Rich, you know I am not a fan of nc - I certainly do not think that it is a strategy for luring back an ex. Definitely not! However, you have acknowledged that your ex is not coming back, and I think that nc will allow you to move on and heal faster than having intermittent contact with her. I think that contact with your ex now, while you are still emotionally raw, will give you false hope and the avenue to analyse everything that she says/does to the nth degree. My, oh my, aren't we all just EXPERTS at doing that now!!!

 

Yes, of course, when you have both moved on, there is the potential for you to both be friends. I don't think that you have reached that stage yet.

 

Good luck.

 

G xx

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GeeCee

you are funny, youth elixer, you mean dating? oh you mean my profile. hmm needed to change it.

 

NC is not my goal, its the walking away visibly, i will not think about how i need or what it means. that makes it like an addiction (very true) and makes me want to run back. no its more day by day attitude of if you want nothing more, then nothing will be said about it. so i dont need to be negative or put conditions on it. but i am stuck on invites. i may pull the game of not this time but its ok to ask.

 

its too soon to plan a path right now. i have to stay in my emotions, letting go, see me as new, and not look too far forward.

 

i am very frustrated as the person who said their ex cant or wont face their own feelings. in my case i know its the answer, its obvious. if she would face her fears and anger, etc. she could unhook the block. but she is so trapped in it she cant see it. so much so that when i say it, it bounces right off.

 

in about a week i will write what i think happened here, what to avoid in the future and what i need from a relationship. thanks guys keep it coming.

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hmm. first i wnt to say thank you guys, no one was responding to my posts for a while and i felt well kind of alone so i used the site to just vent my head and heart. thanks

 

heres some things in my head about her.

 

she is kind but selfish. the dates, the waiting really could be "jesus he loves me, he cares and i just dont want it anymore. but im a jerk if i dont acknowledge it somehow, at least look like im trying so im not a B#$ch."

 

that could be very very true.

 

these are two scenarios i see now.

 

she has been repressed, so have i. a lot of work without much advance romantically. and you know that aint fun overall.

 

so based on her past she may now go nuts for a while. i dont care actually i just dont want to know details.

 

scenario two is she really is stuck. she knows she loves me and cant find that missing piece. she definitely was unhappy when i said "well it means its time for me to start dating and looking for something new" her words were i dont like that at all.

 

scenario two for her to come back would require pain at this point. i mean real discomfort. i dont want that for her, but anybody familiar with change knows that we dont do it unless it hurts. thats where she would have to be. to be desperate enough to say "ok i know i dont want to look at my feelings, and i hate it, what do we do?" that i can work with.

 

and of course last but not least is the slow process of evaporation. where i am no longer putting in effort. she will just shut off her remaining feelings and there will be nothing left. she doesnt know the road back, without me to show it, or someone she would listen to, she will just move on. thats her style.

 

sigh.

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crap....

 

im thinking again. i can see her block to her feelings clear as day. she cant. she misses me when i am gone. then when together she is guarded.

 

she either wants to say i well i did a good job or have some emotional breakthrough that lets her feel again.

 

oh man. this is what i am thinking. let the weekend pass. she knows me, she knows when i say i am giong to start dating its going to happen, she knows i meet very easily. so lets let that happen for the weekend.

 

the next thing would be wait for the phone call. it could be any phone call.

 

then suggest, i dont know want to date while i am dating others, think that would be safe enough for us both?

 

that presents a quandry for her. ooops gotta go finish later.

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Rich. What is the LONGEST you have gone w/out contacting her? It seems like you have been hanging around..and she is never going to miss you if you do not leave her alone.

 

As it is now..you are second guessing yourself all over the board (I know..I do that too.) If she has you hanging around...she'll never get 'unblocked' (if that is, in fact, what the problem is.)

 

Trying to convince her she is blocking emotions or why she should not feel the way she feels, is never going to work. Never. Sorry. But a person thinks what they think until they convince THEMSELVES to feel otherwise. Sometimes just AGREEING with a person, in fact, is enough to get them to change their mind..but disagreeing with them..that just heats things up and she'll keep pushing you away.

 

In fact, my next tactic w/my ex may be to say 'you know what...you are right. Your job is very challenging right now..you really are not able to put any time or contribute emotionally to this relationship. You are correct. We do need space. Things are not working the way they are now.' Then, game over. He's blocked..he's stubborn, he's the male version of your ex. I've been supportive..and THAT didn't work..so perhaps Strong1..and Rich..just need to head off in separate directions into the sunset. They can follow our paths in the sand if they want to reach us. Otherwise..who KNOWS what is over the next hill for us?! : )

 

I think you've showed her you love her, showed her you care, fessed up to making mistakes. Now back off. Let her come to you. She may need to be 'jarred' back into feelings. She isn't going to feel any true loss of you if she senses you are waiting in the wings. You've made amends...now it's her turn. A bit of indecisiveness on your part may be JUST what the doctor ordered.

 

And, while you're dating others, if you are (personally..I feel a LEAST a month of true 'alone time' is essential) do NOT shove that in her face, do not discuss it with her, do not hang out w/women in your old haunts, etc. Worst thing you could do frankly. Your ex could run accross you, see you and, while she may be a BIT jealous, more than likely she'll say 'Hmm, see, I was right..he really did NOT care about me.' Then all your work was for nothing. Take some time for YOURSELF. Get the old 'you' back. You don't need a string of chicks to do that.

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wow, well that got a response. thanks, hard feedback but needed.

 

as we all know down moments and self doubt come into this all the time. games and ideas for "control" are always there. the key is to not act on them until sure.

 

GeeCee - how did she make her feelings about a future clear?

 

strong one, etc. not long at all. but its not me intiating contact, i actually dont call her much, i started to resume normal contact like people dating but then i pulled the plug on the whole thing. thats why im having doubts. the trip to san diego.

 

the thing i have to remember is why i pulled the plug. i have been trying, i have put myself in a vulnerable position. she has not tried nor showed any willingness to try to be truly open or vulnerable. as long as i keep that in mind then moving away slowly (no contact by me), is easy. there is nothing to be gained.

 

but.. what do i do when she contacts? i dont have that answer yet.

 

seeing women helps me, and its not a string. but you know what it feels good. there isnt any sex, but its nice to have the attention but more importantly to give it and see its results. I am working on myself, very very hard. part of that is letting things just be. thats hard.

 

im reacting a little becuase i see some judgements about dating. i understand but have you ever done it? its very hard to make the first step, but once i opened myself up to it as healing i got easier. i dont want a relationship right now, but you know if one happened i wouldnt stop it.

 

she will call, its just like week one of NC all over again. or maybe, just maybe she gets it. dont show up with nothing to offer.

 

there is no way for her to see my dating, we dont cross paths at all on this. i dont know how to say and to not say. i think what comes natural (as she would say) is the best path.

 

my answer to her question would be "im not sure i want to talk about it"

 

in hindsight i wish ihadnt said im going to date and look for something new. she may feel she was trying. i pushed when she said give me a week to think about what you said "blocking her feelings" i said i need a committment to work on this. i never said goodbye, but saying i am going to date and look for something new does say it.

 

so gee. how do i back that off to just blwing her off?

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well now im really feeling like crap.

 

i started to read a book about relationships. and i feel the same thing i felt in week one. that her two months deciding period would prevent a real reconcilliation.

 

the best studies say that seperation. "real" seperation with independent growth are the only recoveries that really work. i know there are a million books out there but. think it through. there hasnt been a week since break up that she doesnt call. i allow her to, what else should i do? shut her out? I really dont call, but i have been available.

 

what a miserable game.

 

i chose growth, because i accepted the two months and the five weeks of dating she saw no reason to change.

 

so i end it. the absolute worst executed plan. i allowed a situtation that became intolerable to me to force a closure based on "im going to date others" meaning i give up. so i did it not her. she didnt really try, i know that. but i could have pushed the button a different way and sooner. im very very tired.

 

the successful reconciliations are just seperations without quitting completely. both parties agree to separate. overly idealistic? sure.

 

but without being too hard on myself. i feel like crap. i really miss her, i really miss us. im hurting really bad.

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Ok Cowboy...give me the big load of guilt you are carrying and lemme carry it for awhile.

 

You are suffering from pre-weekend/post-'I made a big move and am now panicking about it' blues. You will be FINE. It's natural.

 

Put that relationship book down. Give yourself a break..take off the boxing gloves and stop beating the everlovin' CRAP out of yourself. Grab a beer or even some COKE (cuz you can drink whatever you want right now) and put up your feet.

 

You are a bit wobbly now. You fought the good fight. Don't beat yourself up for having given her the 'I'm going to move on and date speech.' I too did that w/mr. "I need space" guy..and was kicking myself repeatedly tonight for doing so. But, you made a slight mistake. Big deal. Your life is not over. You fought long and hard for what you wanted...and she was not opening up..at least not in your eyes.

 

A breather is good for you BOTH. Have you thought about that? Sometimes in a relationship..when one person is fighting to save it..and the other is not...a huge imbalance results. I think they call it the 'see saw effect.' More you care..the less she does.

 

So, give yourself a breather...you think about the relationship less..and she does more. It's a natural effect. Don't believe me? Then WATCH.

 

I don't fault you for dating...I have NO desire to right now..but I have done so after past break ups and separations. While it's good to get out...dating before I am emotionally ready has usually made me feel a bit worse. BUT, I would hope that we would all be in a place where we are dating to have fun..and not be an emotional sponge..to get validation from others that we are bright and smart (and dammit..we ARE so why do we fail to see that so often?) ....all along wishing that our ex's were telling us that instead of some semi stranger. Because then it all just seems so empty. Build yourself up there mister..nobody else can/should do that for you. Take a bit of time on your own..or mix in a little dating if you feel the need. But maybe give it just a BIT more time..another week maybe..see what the ex does? Whatever..up to you. Only you know what feels right. If you need a bit of an ego boost, hell, I won't fault you for that. Could use one myself!

 

But I'm thinking that once you 'let go'...ONLY three things can happen:

 

1) You move on to something better

2) She comes back

3) combination of 1) and 2)

 

And I'm putting my money on #2/#3 as that has nearly always been the case in my dating life.

 

None of those things are bad..eh? Pull yourself together. I know what you are going through..and it's killing me to watch this happen to you..so cheer up just for MY sake ok?! : ) As I'd really like to have a stellar weekend.

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