EXGF has coldfeet! The end of the road.

[craigblitz]

seems we are in the same boat this morning.. Both of us had some encouracing news but then realize they are still decising to be single for whatever reason. I would do this if I were you, go ahead and send a text or an email just saying you had a great time and joke about the lobster. Also say something like the next time we go out no eating lobster or something. That way you are opening the door but not pressuring her to make a next date you know.

 

I can see your mind racing right now... soo many positives, but still no changes to things... hahah I am there with ya right now. I still think our best stradegy is to continue to back off, but pop in every now and again to remind them we care and we are not worth losing. It seems both of our ladies know this. I think it comes down to when they are ready for a Boyfriend they want us, but they are not ready for whatever reasons. With that said approach with caution... don't let her get comfortable that you are waiting around... This is where NC becomes really hard because we want to go in for the kill they are so close we can taste it, but that is exactley what will drive them away.

[leftalone]

I've read this thread with a lot of interest because my meetings with the ex have gone so similarly. Every meeting requires so much energy of me, to tiptoe around what I really wanted to say, and try and take his lead when it seemed like something of substance was coming to the surface.

 

Anyway, my impulse would be to do the same thing you are considering, which is to drop a quick, casual email thanking her for the fun evening. Maybe it's from that instinct people in our position have to say just one more thing…anyway, it won't harm anything for you to do it, but from several "casual thank you" emails I've dropped after a pleasant get together, my experience is she probably won't respond. She'll take it as "oh, that was nice of him to thank me for the evening". So, she won't see it as heavy handed or anything, but also if you're hoping she responds to it, she probably won't. But you know the encounter will be on her mind regardless of if you follow it up with a thank you message, so maybe leave it up to her to address the night…

[craigblitz]

Better yet in the grand scheme of thanks it is a simple thank you for a fun time. No more no less fire it off mate, that is what your impulse says to do then do it.

[dikaia880]

I can't read all of these, but your date sounds like it went off well...

Focus on the positives and not the negatives...your doing great...

good luckj and good weekend

[Scout]

You and your ex (maybe soon to not be your ex) sound like really good people, who are maturely trying to work through things. There are going to be bumps in the road, but just stay with things the way you are. Sure, you're going to have vulnerable moments when your patience seems like its about to run out, but just ride it out.

[shockeddismayed]

Thanks everyone!!!

 

I've been in the car driving alone for the last 3 hours on my way to a cancer walk for a friend. Doing lots of thinking....

 

Anyway, I've been listening to a new CD that we both bought last weekend (strange in itself, as this was an artist I liked, but she simply tolerated... anyway I haven't bought any of his stuff for 3-4 years, but for some reason I bought this album... she saw it the same weekend and bought it). I was listening to two songs that she mentioned last night made her cry instantly... one of them was about the difficulty of starting things back up again after a breakup... I guess I didn't clue in to the significance of that last night b/c I didn't have the song titles memorized yet.

 

Anyway, I've been feeling more positive about what was said last night... it seems like I was focussing on the negative in my long post... Interesting that I am protecting myself even when I write.

 

I've decided to not email her today... I know she is thinking about things anyway and a little uncertainty as to what I am thinking can't hurt all that much. I'll send her a "thanks" on Sunday when I get back... the brief silence may give her an opening to pick up the ball.

 

Later gang.

[Mun]

Sounds like you had a great evening. I am very happy for you and your lady. I think there are definitely issues, but talking from experience I would suggest you simply date and not get into the heavy talk till much later( because hurt feelings will re-surface and may ruin the date). Leave the heart to heart talk for when you have both established the bond and the good feelings for each other, not at this "beginning" stage. Shocked instead of over-analyzing ( as we tend to do) just congratulate yourself on your self-control because you have made great progress!

 

Leftalone I have realized that it is more likely for the female to respond than the male after a " had a good time" email or text. So what I do now is not send him anything commenting on the date and leave it up to him. Sometimes I get a phone call a few days later or a request for another date much later on but there is always something. I don't put myself out but just relax about it.

[shockeddismayed]

Thanks Muneca and Everyone...

 

Not much new over the weekend. I had a good time visiting with old friends.

 

I haven't had any contact with EX since last Thursday's night out. Today I forwarded an email from a friend of mine who organizes things for exchange students. She has a student looking for a place to rent for July. I passed it along to my EX since she has a spare room and might like the cash.

 

My email was very short.. just an FYI. However I also included:

PS: I had a great time last thursday,... hope you had a great weekend.

PPS: Check out this loft condo... (link). Pretty nice!

 

We'd already both spoken about me continuing to live on my own, even if things do work out with us. She thinks I don't want to move back in, so passing this link along won't be interpretted as me putting pressure on. It will remind her that I'll have my own space, and hopefully she'll be excited for me (perhaps she'll even think of the possibility of sleepovers lol).... and if she is secretly hoping I will move back in, she'll realize that my current lease is up at the end of August, so I have to start looking now.

 

Anyway... let you know if anything happens. She told me she'd email me some of her writing, so we'll see.

 

I'm wondering though... for those who've been following along... given that she is moving so slowly, is it better that I take the initiative to invite her to do something, or wait indefinitely for her?

 

When things left off I'd said "... so call me if you'd like to do it again", but for all I know she didn't even hear it that way.

 

My gut says a few things:

1) I can win her back if I put in the effort (gradually and slowly)

2) My pride needs her to take the initiative... but she's is fearful.

 

PS: The EX-EX (way back from 7 years ago) emailed me to check in from her holiday. She will be back in August, so it is nice to distract me with thoughts of having someone to hang with when she returns... hopefully things are resolved one way or another by then.

[Mun]

Hi Shocked, No harm in dating her I think. Try not to think too far ahead ( like sleepovers) take it slow instead. Try to view it as starting over-without the old baggage if possible. Continue to see yourself as "single" though, and date others too. My thought is that if she is receptive then you can go ahead and call her and ask her out, why not?

 

Good luck

[shockeddismayed]

Thanks Muneca,

 

I appreciate your advice.

 

Unfortunately, today my back is WAY up.

 

I was working at the hospital that she occasionally works at today... I work in a small start-up company, so I don't always get out that much.

 

Anyway, another girl and I did a triple-take of each other. She was certainly cute... but of course i don't know a thing about her. I thought to myself... "she is very pretty, but I already know that in all my life I've never had the spiritual/mental connection with anyone that I do with EX... yet EX doesn't seem to care enough to keep me from being single"

 

Anyway, all of this got me thinking about how long this has been going on... how long I've been patient.... and I'm starting to feel anger again. I just don't GET IT. Why can she say she loves me, say she is attracted to me, say she is having second thoughts, say she sees her single friends hoping for "half the guy" that I am, realize that all our issues are "workable" in her eyes, realize fear might be the only thing holding her back... and yet still not even bother to follow through on sending me her writing which she said she would... not even bother to follow through on my email yesterday,... and worse yet, not even bother to keep me from potentially losing me to other people like the girl I saw today!!?!?!?!? I WOULD NEVER EVEN THINK OF TAKING THAT RISK, I KNOW I COULDN'T BARE TO LOSE HER!!!!!

 

I deserve better than this! Why am I waiting around for this girl?! Sure I LOVE HER... but I am just so PEEVED at her slow progress... SHE IS TAKING ME FOR GRANTED.... that she can just TAKE HER TIME and I will be waiting for her.

 

This is now beyond the point of "I need some space"... we are coming up on FOUR MONTHS of space! She seems to have all the answers... all the things she said she'd need to feel before trying again, and yet STILL she does nothing!!!

 

I am writing this here b/c the only other thing that crossed my mind was to call and give EX ONE WEEK to figure things out... and I know that isn't a good idea.

 

I know it was only last thursday that we went out, but is there a point where it is fair for me to just say "you've had enough time... choose to try again slowly, or choose to never see me again"!?!?!

 

I can't stay in limbo forever.

[a_little_sparrow]

hey s&d,

 

I'm not sure if I have a whole lot of insight. But there are a couple things that come to mind. First, there's all this writing that she probably feels she should have ready for you before she speaks with you again. And, yes, she's had time to work on it, but it also seems like one of those writing assignments that a grad student in psychology might go over and over again making sure that she has everything down right. (she is a grad student in psychology right?)

 

The other thing is what muneca said about looking at this as though you're just starting to date. You're starting slowly here. And, this isn't meant to sound harsh, but keep in mind that you have something that you're starting, and she must be considering it seriously.

 

By all means use this site to vent. By all means, if you feel like you can date others, do it. But in the end you know that she knows she should get back to you. And, from everything you've said: she will.

[shockeddismayed]

sparrow...

 

none of that sounded harsh.... I appreciate your thoughts.

 

It just gets SO hard sometimes. I worry that this girl is playing me like a fiddle.

 

I spent the first 6 months of our relationship WATCHING us fall in love with each other like nothing I'd ever seen, yet her fear and inexperience made it so painful for her as we broke down her barriers.

 

You are right... she is a training psychologist, so she's triple thinking every thing she might be writing to me... but at this point I worry that she is thinking her way right past this relationship... in the same way that she would have protected herself from ever falling in love if I hadn't been so patient and supportive of her in the beginning. The most important quote that has stuck in my mind for years was "I am falling so in love with you... maybe we should just be friends, then I'd never lose you". This was said while we had a bath together after the first time we made love (her first time). Her indecision continued for months.... and it affected me more than I realized at the time.

 

After all those years of carrying that injury it seems very much like we've come full circle and I need to be the one to carry things again... to be patient and understanding while she acts in a way that could be interpretted that she doesn't care enough for me... when in fact it may be that she cares so much she is too frightened to try.

 

Do I have it in me to carry that load again? After being kicked out of our house, etc?

 

It isn't my job to give her that support anymore... she needs to find it within herself, yet I know the process of her finding it alone will be longer than finding it with me to lean on.... it feels like it will be longer than I can bear to be in this place.

 

(Today) I feel spent... exhausted... and used up by this girl.... even my own father (who always loved her dearly) has been feeling so hurt by what has happened that he said "I hope to God you don't get back together, you've spent so much time injuring each other (ie her injuring me) that you may never recover".

[craigblitz]

That is a place where I struggle too my friend, she will tell me she is miserable, and send texts at least you are having fun, but I do not say anything to comfort her. If she wants to really address it she will. I am not going to be like hey everything is ok you are going to find a great guy when I feel I am a great guy....lol

 

I think the advice we both have gotten is just sit back and go for the ride, date others. Dude it sucks and feels so weird but we are single now we have to.

 

Shout at me whenever dude... Hang in there and like I said in my saga of a post I really think things are going to work out for you. Patience does not seem to be a big virtue just like myself.... I am totally a results now type of guy.

[Mun]

Please Craig don't tell her she is going to find a great guy. Don't even acknowledge that she dates others. She will think you are trying to get rid of her or that you don't care anymore. Just don't say anything about other guys or other girls when you are with her. At that time the focus is on you two having a good time together PERIOD.

 

You are doing ok. Hang in there

[Scout]

Eeeks. Things have taken a turn for the worse. I don't know what advice to give, because your situation reminds me of Rich's, sort of. (see his post "Here we go again, scared but confident"). He didn't like the advice I gave him, and so I'm reluctant to give you the same advice. Maybe you should read his post, do you really want to go through what he's dealing with? If you're in it for the long haul, than no one can talk you out of it, but be prepared for a long phase of frustrating, unrewarding longing & pining & angst. Good luck.

[shockeddismayed]

Scout,

 

Thanks for stopping by.

 

To be fair, it has only been a week since we went out, and she hasn't really done anything (except doing nothing) to cause me to feel frustrated... I was just venting about my impatience.

 

I went out last night for a few pints for a friends BDay. He asked how things were going... I told him the progress in the last two weeks (she returns from trip, she calls me up to go out... going out goes fairly well... I forward an email with a PS and then nothing).

 

His take "wow, that's great she asked you out and you had a good time... how come you haven't called her back? Are you playing games?"

 

That comment certainly put things in a slightly different perspective.

 

After the pub I was feeling a bit emotional, so called my sister so that I wouldn't call the EX. Her take on things was the similar "S&D, you know EXGF, and you know it would have been a big deal for her to put herself out there (both in terms of pride and fear) and ask you to go out last week... maybe you owe her a little more effort than a "PS" at the end of a business like email... why don't you call her tomorrow?"

 

So... I'm thinking that over... they both made a good point... she made the last significant move and I've given very little back since that move.

 

thoughts?

[a_little_sparrow]

s&d,

 

I feel like I'm still learning a lot from just reading advice on this board etc. But, I think you have every right and reason to call her. You're at a very nice point with things. What I think is especially nice is that your not calling her doesn't come from game playing, it comes from a general confusion regarding where the two of you stand. As muneca has put it, you're at that "beginning stage" where you're just learning again to let the bond happen. And you're just figuring out what each of you expect.

 

My advice for the call is to do it with confidence (that goes without saying), and not with the object of asking her out necessarily. Play it by ear, and you'll know after talking to her for a bit whether you should try making a date, or just lay low for a little while longer.

 

As always, I'm rooting for you. Good luck!

[leftalone]

I agree about the phone call, S&D. One thing that I've thought about lately is how "reason driven" all of our contact with the ex tends to be - how even though they readily agreed to the last "hanging out" encounter, or even initiated it themselves, we still feel like every phone call, email, etc. will send the wrong message (needy, pushy, whatever). So a lot of times I've felt like I had to have a reason to call (need my earrings, wanted to pass along a job listing, etc.) Like sparrow said, the call doesn't have to be for a purpose, like to arrange a date or anything at all, just a call to chat, see what's new, how's the week going...

 

Casual friends ring each other all the time just to say 'hi' - i think it's safe to say that your history and the current stage you and the ex are in elevates you beyond just 'exes' and definitely beyond acquaintances/friends...if you want to say hi and see how her week was and just chat a bit, do it!

[shockeddismayed]

thanks sparrow and leftalone

 

You guys (and the rest of the gang) are very right... I have no reason NOT to call if I feel like it.

 

As you can see... I'm still putting myself on the rollercoaster emotionally. I need to keep taking a step back to realize my progess and just relax about this a bit.

 

Slowly but surely... I'm learning.

 

I'll give her a shout tonight and just play it by ear.

[Mun]

Hi, I know I told you that as long as she was receptive you could call her and ask her out( I told you earlier in the week ) . Well she has been receptive, now it's time for you to pick up the ball and run. Don't wait for her to initiate contact each time since it looks like things are mutual right now.

 

Call and be friendly and flirty. Have a good time

[shockeddismayed]

Thanks Muneca....

 

You were right.

 

I'm sure I will continue to fluctuate in my mood about all of this. So it is important I have you guys to help me see the forest for the trees.

 

I called tonight but no answer (cell or home)... summer weekend, so she's likely on a roadtrip home or to her cottage.... we rarely spent a weekend in the city in years.

 

I'll try to hook up with her Sunday or next week.

[shockeddismayed]

Just a short non-update kinda update.

 

I called her saturday on her cell. She was out of town shopping with her sister, mother and "the bridesmaids". They were shopping for bridesmaids dresses for her (younger) sister's wedding. We laughed about the colour of the dresses and she made a comment about looking forward to the afternoon of shoe shopping (the biggest weakness in her otherwise tomboy attitude).

 

I mentioned that I was calling to remind her of the Netherlands important soccer game (she is dutch and a soccer fan). She asked whether I was watching it... I played coy at first and said I had something else going on, but eventually admitted to a hockey tournament and then a year-end "night downtown with the guys".

 

After that I could hear the other girls calling at her that they were going for lunch. I told her to catch up and said "hey we should hook up this week when you get back". She said "yeah ok" (but somewhat nervous sounding... or maybe she was just trying to think of when... I couldn't read her tone. Her nervous is similar to her distracted/confused tone) and then said she would call me back later.

 

So.... no word yet. We'll see.

 

However if she doesn't bother to call me back until next week, I think I am going to neglect picking up the phone. She is getting too comfortable that I will be around forever, and I'm getting toward the end of my rope. She still hasn't sent me the email of her thoughts of us from the trip. She is lacking follow through and it is bothering me.

[craigblitz]

Man I am the last one to be saying this but you shouldn't read too much into their tone you know. If she said sure she must have least been thinking of it. It might not even be a bad idea to call again and leave a message and say hey I am getting plans ready for the weekend and wanted to know if you still wanted to do something. That way there is no pressure for her and if she dogs ya you still can make plans.

 

Again, we both are impatient and the want that we have is string which makes yours and my situation even tougher. I think rocking the boat will not be a bad thing at all in your case either. I had the feeling my ex was getting in a zone where she had everything she wanted and didn't need to make a decision. I know what I want and being her pal is not it. I think you want more than that too.

 

I have stopped contacting her and she has been contacting me like crazy. I know every situation is different but if you let your mind and heart work together a lot of times good decisions will be made.

 

Just keep hanging tough like I know you are doing, I really recommend maybe going out with another lady on a date or something. It feels weird but it does help with things and when you have plans missing her is a little easier.

 

Good luck bro!!!

[shockeddismayed]

She called last night.

 

Her mother is up visiting this week, so it will be tough for us to hook up. It is also a short week here with a holiday, and she is driving with her Mom to the cottage for the long weekend. She did say that it was still up in the air whether she'd go, and that she'd call if she was going to be around. I said my plans for the weekend were up in the air too, so feel free to let me know once you have things sorted.

 

We made some small chit-chat. Nothing important was said.

 

She did ask whether I'd received her email of her 'what she'd look forward to list' and her writing about ' her realizations about herself and us' . She'd promised to send those. The way she asked, it was clear that she wondered why I hadn't mentioned them.

 

I hadn't received the email, so we agreed that there must be something funky going on with my email. She'll try to send them again today, and if I don't get them I'm to call her back to let her know.

 

So... that's it for now. I think it leaves things in a fairly neutral place until next week, and let's me have a chance to absorb whatever is written to me and leaves things open for me next week.

 

Later all.

[RayKay]

Well it is good she did write them/is going to send them, since I know that was something that was important to you - and it does show she HAS thought about it seriously.

 

Hope that it provides some good insight for you anyway, and lets you know more where you stand