EXGF has coldfeet! The end of the road.

[ziggystar]

hey s&d,

 

what do you mean by flip-flop? what is it that you are flipping and flopping between? i flip-flop emotionally over whether or not me and my ex are going anywhere. we haven't talked about the relationship since the break. i won't bring it up as many suggest that wouldn't be prudent. i'm just working towards getting intimate enough again where the relationship can be discussed, because it would need to be at some point to address the issues from before.

 

i feel for you on that issue of the other guy, but there's nothing we can or should do about that. because even on our end of things, i want to know that she can have that freedom to go for the other guy, but still chose to come back. it would provide even more comfort when they do come back. i know it's hard but you have to let it happen. in my case, i have no evidence that my ex is seeing anybody else. she has not said there was anybody else in the picture. i rationally doubt there is anybody else because of certain circumstances, but yet i still worry that there might be. it's human nature to an extent to fear the unknown. try not to think thoughts that you can not verify...and don't go about trying to verify it.

[shockeddismayed]

RandyB: Thanks for the advice. I agree there may be a bit of piano playing going on here. But you'll be happy to know that I did not end up leaving any bittersweet gift and that was a good move, so your hunch was right. However that was a month ago, so I imagine you were responding to some of the earlier posts in this thread?

 

DG: She is certainly trying to sort through what worries she has about settling down. I just find it really funny that it happens so late... I mean we've been living as a married couple for 2 years. Other than room-mates, our life had become quite "married"... and from what I could tell, we were both enjoying it. As to me smoothering her... definitely not at work here. If anything, she was worried that the spark was lacking... but I think there were a lot of things that were making that difficult (lack of privacy, arguing when we did have rare moments of privacy, stress, fatigue, etc.)

 

Ziggystar: What I meant by flip-flop is that I AM having moments of anger and jealousy about things I imagine. She told me last week that she hadn't seen the guy other than the one time over a month ago, that it felt like a betrayal, and that she wasn't going to see him (if at all) until she could sort out her feelings for me. She was emphatic that this was about her and I now, and that she was spending her time "just being" with her feelings. However, our trust has been damaged in all of this, so I have moments where I wonder whether she can live up to that promise. She's lonely too... and he WILL make more overtures in her direction.

 

What bothers me is that it felt SO MUCH like she was almost ready to try again when we last spoke 11 days ago. But now my mind is playing tricks on me... why hasn't she called when she said she was going to pester me? Why haven't I even received a thank-you for the birthday card? I worry that if he steps back into the picture, all the progress will be lost/put aside. It isn't that I think she'd choose him long term, just that it might take her a while to get past the initial excitement of something new... And I don't feel I have the patience to hold on for a number of months (and it might take that long to fizzle out, since he lives 4 hours away)... the uncertainty is affecting me bigtime.

 

I told myself I wouldn't let my imagination play tricks on me... but it is REALLY tough.

 

You say you want your ex to feel she can try something out and still come back... I have no problem that mine went out with him once. I'd start to have a big problem if she lied to me about focussing only on me and her own feelings, and yet was still entertaining the possibility of him. Especially when she has kept me hanging on the way that she has. And especially when my respect for this guy is already so low, given that he'd tried to break us up while I was accross the continent four years ago. If I lose, I'd like to lose to an honourable opponent for once. It seems so shallow to think that it might boil down to her not having any other experience other than me.

 

I guess I'd see it a bit like pre-warned cheating/infidelity. "I want to marry you, but first I'd like to cheat a bit on the side... but don't worry, I love you and I'll come back to you". How does it make it any better to warn your partner first?

 

Last week she asked me repeatedly whether I'd slept with anyone since the split. I answered honestly (no), and this was after she'd already said she hadn't slept with anyone either. However I'm not sure what she was looking for. My first reaction was that she'd feel good that I hadn't felt the need to sleep with my EX-EX (or anyone else) and that it would make her feel confident in my feelings for her... but then my mind plays tricks and says maybe she was just trying to find out whether it would be ok for her to go through with something.

 

Sorry I'm venting.... I have these days where my imagination runs overtime... the worst part is I have very little to base this fiction on, yet it comes to me all the same.

[ziggystar]

hey s&d,

 

the imagination/negative fantasy is hard to quell. i think it's harder to quell when we think of it and then resist it at the same time which makes us lock down on it harder. i also notice when i think of such things, i stop breathing. sounds weird but it's like holding it in and down. i find that i get relief by breathing first of all, then by accepting my imagination as truth, which then makes me back off. meaning i have no evidence that it is true but i imagine it anyway. but if i say "okay it is true", then i start to think of the lack of evidence. a jedi mind trick...

[shockeddismayed]

 

 

I suppose a Jedi mind trick is better than calling her up and asking!

 

Seriously though... I feel like I could go on indefinitely if I could just ask her again and say "look, I know you are stringing me along until you sort things out... I understand that... but only if you can PROMISE that you aren't going to entertain something new until you've sorted out your thoughts and given me a final answer".

 

I suppose that isn't realistic though is it?

[just jeff]

S&D,

 

I feel for you.... in many ways our stories are simular. If I were you I would do the no contact until she shows signs of being honest and serious... we are talking about two lives here... if she's playing mind games it's dangerous... the hurt can ruin your life if you allow it... whatever you do... good luck and best wishes... be strong...

 

Jeff

[shockeddismayed]

Thanks Jeff...

 

I should clarify though.... I have little/nothing to say she hasn't been honest. And there hasn't been a day in her life that she has been accused of being anything less than serious... she is VERY serious.

 

The only dishonest thing she has ever done was that when we met by chance two weeks ago... i started saying that I had enough amunition to walk away from this and say "I deserved better than this treatment" and that there was probably more I didn't know about. She fell into the trap and started saying she had been honest about EVERYTHING. So then I asked her whether she had seen him before her trip down south. She answered yes b/c she had to. Then I asked whether she'd seen him since. She denied 3 times before I told her I'd found pictures on our computer. (She'd left them in the recycle bin). She blamed her dis-honesty on not wanting to tell me on the street... and on the fact that she wasn't going to tell me unless it became something important... that she wasn't going to pursue it, so it shouldn't matter. etc.

 

I almost feel like confronting her again... I know that is a terrible idea... but she is playing games, and I at least want to know what rules she is playing by. If she was honest last week about "just being" with her feelings and putting him out of her mind, then I can deal with that. If she is going to see him... I need to get angry and move on.

[ziggystar]

Seriously though... I feel like I could go on indefinitely if I could just ask her again and say "look, I know you are stringing me along until you sort things out... I understand that... but only if you can PROMISE that you aren't going to entertain something new until you've sorted out your thoughts and given me a final answer".

 

I suppose that isn't realistic though is it?

 

it isn't realistic. but here's something else to watch out for. if you go about looking for something wrong, you will absolutely find it. so don't go looking for it, but neither be blind. just let things play themselves out and reveal themselves to you. it's hard, but it's the way to go. i'm on that route right now and it feels like off road driving. you need to shift into many different gears to get through the obstacles, but it's better to be slow and safe then sorry.

[shockeddismayed]

Ziggy,

 

Thanks again for the advice.

 

This is tough slugging. I know I need to try and trust in her process. I'm going to write down the things that I KNOW, so that I can remind myself of reality.

 

1) She assured me last week that she would only be focussing on me/us. That the other guy was out of the picture.

2) She's said she is missing me terribly.

3) She's said she has had moments where she feels "I am the one".

4) She is trying to focus on whether she can live with ALL of me, faults and all.

5) She noticed that I looked better... sounded happier/healthier. This can only help... her biggest complaint was that I'd fallen into a rut.

6) Our conversations were very good, genuine and honest.

7) She's acknowledged that she could end up broken hearted by me if she doesn't try to sort this out.

8) She's admitted that way back, part of what stopped her from communicating was fear of losing me.

9) She's seen that I am supportive of her... but also knows I won't wait forever.

10) She said that I gave her a lot of what she needed to hear to help with the decision.

11) She's said she still needs time.

12) She's said she will continue to contact me.

13) Neither of us have been able to keep up the no-contact. Our longest was 9 days of complete NC. On the 9th day she was crying in her Cheerios that morning and then ran into me that afternoon. We are on 11 days since our last tender conversation on the phone... 6 days since I sent her a card... based on what I know in the past, she is missing me... maybe she's just as wiggy as I feel today.

 

Positive flow....

[shockeddismayed]

Here's the latest.

 

1) 2.5 months from breakup.

2) Last conversation 19 days ago... she left it at needing to keep me close while she figured things out and tries to "find her voice"... then she went up to the cottage with her girlfriends to think.

3) Last contact was me leaving a card and CD 14 days ago for her birthday.

4) For the last two weeks there has been NO contact.

 

I went away for the weekend and spoke to a couple that got back together after a 4 months split. They were actually shocked at how similar our situations were... they could see the doubts my EXGF was having, so they said CALL HER... don't put pressure on, but DO keep the contact going.

 

I called on Tuesday night. Immediately she started thanking me for calling. It turned out that she HAD thanked me for my birthday present, but that the email didn't get through... she'd been thinking I wasn't responding to her. We laughed about that.

 

I had an agenda of news about my family to tell her about, and to ask a few things about her family. We laughed through the conversation and then I said "well I should let you go".

 

She kept me on the phone and we talked some more. She asked how I was doing... asked if I was still feeling positive and asked about how I was spending my time. I told her that I was feeling much better... working out, running... really feeling rejuvinated. I even said "yeah... all the things you wanted me to do while we were together... I should almost thank you for shaking me out of my funk". She was SO happy to hear all of this... I could tell it was a barrier to her returning.

 

She brought up us being soulmates again. Commented on how she is starting to see that our ability to challenge each other so poignantly was due to the fact that we understood each other so well. We both remarked that if we'd had a bit more maturity, we'd have realized those challenges were the same ones you make to yourself out of love and desire to improve, and we wouldn't have looked at them as personal attacks.

 

We talked a bit more... the issue of counselling came up. She said she'd been thinking about it, but felt like she needed to go alone before being ready to go as a couple. I mentioned that the issues came up in the context of the relationship, so maybe it would help to have me along. She needed to think about it, so I let it be.

 

Then she started talking about how lately she has been feeling that so much of our problems were situational... my failing company, the death of my best friend, her worry about her school/career, her buying a house, us having to ALWAYS have roomates, etc, etc. She said she wished she could ask some older/all-knowing person whether our crap was the type of stuff we should just work through.. this was bothering her lately. I said it was a good point (what I DIDN'T say was WHY THE HELL DIDN"T YOU HEAR ME SAY THAT 2 MONTHS AGO, heheheh).

 

Anyway, the gist of the conversation was that she is still trying to sort things out, and her current feelings are that poor communication caused by getting in a funk destoyed things.

 

I reminded her that SHE is the one who chooses her future. She said "Exactly, and Shocked, I needed to do this so that I felt like I was choosing my future, not just falling into it"

 

We finished on a light note... talking about me learning new guitar songs (she'd fallen in love with me playing to her, but I got busy and out of practice recently).

 

Some very positive moments... but nothing was said about next steps other than her saying "I feel like I can call you". Last time she didn't call me at all even though she said she would NEED to (although there was the mess up with the emailed "thanks for the present").

 

Thoughts?

[DaisyB]

S&D, I'm so glad you called. I have no idea what your conversation means (if anything), but I'm glad you two had it, and I'm glad you're back in contact.

 

The guitar, running, etc. -- all of that is so good. For the relationship, yes, but more importantly, for you.

 

For now, I would try to keep in contact with her. Don't overdo it -- but don't be afraid to call her once a week or so. Maybe more often, if it keeps going well. You're not out of the woods yet -- she still hasn't given you any sort of decision -- but maybe, though more contact, you can start working through problems together.

 

I reminded her that SHE is the one who chooses her future. She said "Exactly, and Shocked, I needed to do this so that I felt like I was choosing my future, not just falling into it"

 

This struck a chord with me -- my ex said almost exactly the same thing. I sort of understand, and sort of don't. But I know that we can't change how they feel. I guess the best thing is just to be supportive?

[shockeddismayed]

AHHH CRAPPP!!!!

 

The last month of this 3 month breakup, my EXGF and I have been talking about "us". She's been telling me she is giving serious thoughts to getting back together... serious thoughts to what went wrong, how to correct it and even talked about going to counselling (her first, then maybe 'us').

 

Just before all of these "us" chats, I challenged her on the "other guy", told her I'd found out and wanted to know what was up. I was very understanding with her, but I wanted to know what her plans were.

 

She told me that she couldn't see him cuz she was too focussed on me. That she couldn't go through with anything physical or start something new because "I was all around her", and she wanted to sort things out about her and I first. I asked specifically whether she planned to see him and she said "no,... well I know that he would want to see me, but I've put it aside until I can sort things out with you".

 

Last tuesday (10 days ago) we spoke on the phone (my last post). It was quite positive... she was thinking about seeing counselling to work out issues related to us. In that conversation, running came up and I told her that I was going to be running in the local half-marathon. She thought that was a great idea... said she hadn't decided herself.

 

Today I registered. I checked to see if she had.... she did, but the worst part is that the bib-numbers are sequential, and the person who registered with her (or for her) is the OTHER GUY.

 

I feel I've been totally misled... that she's been stringing me along, and lying to me about not having him on the side. Another part of me says "no-way, she wouldn't do that... she's an honest person"

 

I want to confront her on this.... should I? If yes, before or after the event? If I can do it in a polite "tell me what I should know" manner, does it still drive her into his arms?

 

I feel SO betrayed. I can't stand the thought that he is driving up from out of town (a long way away) and might be sleeping in MY BED this weekend.

[shockeddismayed]

OK...

 

So first of all, my last post was a TOTAL OVER-REACTION. Here is what has gone down in the last week.

 

1) I invited her out to talk. She sounded happy, but then picked up on my anxiety... asked if it would upset her... I said "maybe not". We agreed to meet on Friday for dinner. She figured I was there to tell her I'd never speak to her again. I made light small talk, but I could tell she was nervous. She told me she was doing her best to work on things... that she'd booked her first session with a counsellor. That she didn't want to lead me on (ie no guarantee's as to what happens) but that she DID feel it was important that I know she is trying to sort her feelings out as quickly as she can.

 

2) Deep down I wanted to confront her about the other guy at dinner, but just before dinner I figured out that they'd likely registered a long time ago (based on their bib number), so I decided to keep it to myself... It was a good decision, cuz she brought him up instead. She said "when we last spoke I told you I didn't have any contact with him... I want to be honest and say that he still calls me, but the rest is still true: I haven't seen him since we started talking a month ago, and I don't plan to until I have my feelings for you sorted out. He wanted to meet up with me this weekend while he is in town, but I called him to tell him that I wasn't interested in that right now". I trust her on this (besides, she had mutual friends of our bunking over with her this weekend, so I'd hear indirectly if she lied).

 

3) We left dinner with me basically saying that I was nearing the end of my patience, but that I did appreciate hearing she is trying to make progress. I said that based on that, I was willing to support her, but that it would have to be more regular... that being in limbo was interfering with my life... so if she wanted me to wait, then I needed some regular contact. Every week or two to see how things are going, and more importantly just to hang out periodically with each other and see if there is still something to work for. She said email and phone would be ok, but that she wasn't sure about meeting up socially. I asked why and she said "I know that we can have fun together, that isn't the issue". I asked whether she was afraid of falling for me again before our issues worked out and she said "yes, that is part of it". I told her that I wasn't trying to rush things... I want to do the hard work on our issues too, but that I can't JUST do that... that I need to be able to remind myself what we are fighting for... that I worry if we don't do that, the heavy lifting of the relationship work will frustrate us to the point of giving up. She said she'd think about it.

 

4) The next morning (saturday) she called me at 8:30. She said she'd been thinking, and that it would really help if I could put on paper "what went wrong and how it might be fixable". She said "no sugarcoating... I'm going to do the same, and we need to be realistic about whether we should try to work things out". She wanted to meet in a week or two to talk through our lists. She wouldn't committ to hanging out in a light way. I said I would be more comfortable if there were a counsellor present... especially if things get heavy. She said she'd think about it.

 

5) Sunday she called and left a voicemail. She was gushing with pride after my 1/2 marathon. She saw the results online and saw that I placed really well... top 15% of my age bracket in my very first race. She said "I knew you could do it... you should be so pleased, congrats, I hope you are enjoying your day, etc, etc". (Note to the competitive people out there... while I did this for myself, I will admit to looking up "the other guy's" time.... I whooped him by 15 minutes!)

 

6) I decided to keep "my day" to myself, so I called back on Monday. She wasn't home. I left a message with the roommate, but was feeling distressed at having given up the ball.

 

7) My own room-mate came home and announced that she'd been out for dinner with my ex. She spilled the beans... essentially everything I've heard. That she's confused... that she is trying to figure out whether we should work things out... that she is worried her own issues might have held her back... that she isn't sure yet whether I am her life partner, and wants to feel more confident in "us" before trying again. That she is trying to work things out, but knows that I might be gone by the time she has. That she needs to feel that the relationship "gives her strength".

 

8 ) For some reason, hearing that last line from a third party pissed me off. I mean, after all of the support I've given her... practically being her own counsellor for 7 years, it hurt to hear "needing strength from the relationship". I told that to my room-mate who quickly backtracked, saying she might be misquoting/misunderstanding my ex, but it was too late. I was feeling taken for granted.

 

9) Got a call last night (Tues). EX wants to meet up on Sunday to exchange those lists.... offered to make it light by going for hike in the local state park. I resisted a bit... saying that I was in a negative place, haven't had the energy to complete my list yet... didn't know if/when that would happen. She said she understood and knows "it is all about up and down days for both of us". I told her I felt I'd wasted my patience earlier when it did no good... she sounded worried and said "well we don't have to go through everything at once.. maybe only one or two issues first, and you don't have to focus on what went wrong, just try to focus on what you think we could change/work on".

 

She said she wanted to try before her trip (she has a 10 day conference coming up) and if things get too tough, we can meet again with a counsellor when she gets back. This sounded like progress to me, so I said I'd try to get to things this week and get back to her.

 

So... that is the update. It sounds like over the last few weeks, she has made this a priority. I think she is still sorting out her feelings, but at least we might be moving toward some sort of closure (God willing!).

 

Any comments?

[DaisyB]

S&D,

 

Got your PM. Thanks for keeping me updated.

 

I think all of this sounds really good. I'm always struck by how similar our exes seem to be. You quote things that she's said, and my ex has said nearly the same things, almost word-for-word. Weird.

 

I asked whether she was afraid of falling for me again before our issues worked out and she said "yes, that is part of it".

 

This has been my ex's main argument for wanting to have no contact/minimal contact over the summer. Strange, isn't it? Must be because we're so darn irresistible.

 

I think your ex has made huge strides in working on the relationship, even though she's not quite to the point of "working on it together" (ie, getting back together). But she sounds close.

 

Don't worry about her not wanting to hang out socially. I don't want to do that with my ex right now either, because there are such larger issues out there that "just hanging out" would seem fake. (Maybe it's a female thing -- I don't know.) I think if she wants to do the list, she's indicating that she wants to work on the relationship with you. . . and that's the goal, right? Obviously, the ultimate goal is to work on the relationship while dating, but this may be the first step.

 

I know it's frustrating that she can't guarantee an outcome, but I do think she has made this a priority. For now, I would try my hardest to work WITH her on this. (Unless that makes you feel like a doormat, in which case, don't.)

 

Congrats on the 1/2 marathon!

 

Take care, and I'll be in touch.

[dikaia880]

Hey S&D...

Finally got a chance to look it all up! I think your going in the right direction. She is testing your patience, but I'm sure she notices, but don't let it be taken for granted too much...

She said she needs to feel strength from the relationship...give her that strength by being there for her and trying to work out the issues...She obviously seems to want to try but is holding back out of her own insecurities (it seems to me) or fear...keep up a little contact...and try to be patience and look at it as a marathon not a sprint... If you try to sprint a marathon you'll never get there and will get frustrated...but if you pace yourself and understand the length then it's just going out for a jog and becomes much easier...

Your doing good it seems, keep up your spirits and let her know (not through words, but action) that your there for her...and I think things will work themselves out just fine!

 

Best of Luck...

[shockeddismayed]

Thank you both for your replies. I appreciate the advice.

 

Dikaia: I like the marathon analogy... unfortunately I don't feel I have the energy left for it now... I need to refocus and try to figure out whether I have the juice left if indeed it will be a marathon. Especially since she won't even tell me I'm fully registered in the race so to speak (although she seems to be showing me that I am).

 

DaisyB: You are right... I suppose there might be an initial step before we begin the ultimate goal (working things out together by dating). My friends who went through the same thing had a similar path. "She" wouldn't committ to anything until they'd had several heart to hearts with a counsellor... once they were talking again, "couselling night" became "counselling and date night", and the rest is history.

 

Update: She called again last night.

 

She asked whether I felt that she didn't give me lee-way to be down/sad in the relationship, or whether I felt like I was always expected to be the happy one. She had a trembling voice as she asked me this.

 

Apparently, this question came from her looking at old cards that she'd sent to me... she noticed a theme of complimenting me two things: 1) supporting her and 2) bringing her excitement/joy.

 

I said I wasn't sure how to answer it... I said I recognized that those were two things she fell in love with... recognized that I hadn't been bringing as much of that to the table when I was down. I said that in the relationship I'm not sure I felt that pressure, but that given that she broke up with me, maybe I thought I had more lee-way than I actually did.

 

We talked about a few more things along this line... it was a rough, choppy conversation. I wasn't sure how well it went.

 

On the topic of this weekend, she couldn't answer for sure what it was all about. I asked whether it might just be closure for her and she agreed that was a possibility. However she also said that she knows she needs to think with her heart, she knows she's been overanalyzing things... because of that she wants to be sure she hasn't made any incorrect assumptions about things.

 

She also said "I get so angry when I think that people like [shocked's friend] might be telling you that I'm just having cold feet, or that I can't commit. That totally minimizes the fact that I was really upset and unhappy with the way we'd been interacting lately... so upset that it took me a month or longer of being alone before I could look past that pain, and before I could start to see all of the wonderful things about you/us that I risk losing... now I'm starting to be able to see those positive things, and that is where my confusion stems from."

 

I told her that I wasn't all that happy with our interactions either... we talked a bit more about how many small little things seemed to multiply on each other.... I made the point that if we could work on one or two things, it might make the rest less important (more annoyances than actual "issues"). We agreed that communication was the biggest of the issues that would need to be addressed. Then she said that she didn't want to delve into all of this tonight, that it might be best left for Sunday.

 

Interspersed throughout all of this, I gave her the gist of my feelings this week... emphasized that I wasn't here to "help her get over me", and that if she thinks this might be about her closure, she could get it on her own. I told her that the only closure I needed was to know that a girl whom I loved, whom I treated very well (for the most part) wasn't willing to give things another shot... once I see/believe that, I'll know she wasn't worth the fight. She said she understood (although it upset her to hear it).

 

Then I called her back to say "one of the things we need to work on is how to have a rough conversation and not go to bed angry/frustrated. To remember that an argument can just be an argument... it doesn't need to be some omen of a doomed relationship. Successful couples put things aside, so I wanted to call you and give my best wishes and a proper

goodnight... we can finish our chat on Sunday." She said she wasn't

that upset, but thanked me for calling.

[shockeddismayed]

I'll try my best to keep this short.

 

For those who haven't read: 7 years --> ring shopping --> she felt terrible about the way we were interacting, didn't know why --> dumped me. Couldn't even think about me for a month (due to her hurt). Tried to start something with someone who reminded her what it was like to feel "special", but couldn't b/c it ended up reminding her of feelings for me.

 

I've been getting very mixed messages about possibly trying again for a month.

 

Yesterday we met up for what was supposed to be "the last heart to heart I might need in order to know if we should try again". She asked me to prepare a list of what we could work on.

 

So we met and talked for 8 hours yesterday... what a marathon!

 

It started out light at a coffee shop, but we were both a bit nervous.

 

We went to my apartment. Exchanged ideas on what could be improved. Our lists were NEARLY IDENTICAL... for example she'd have something like "I needed more every day affirmation of your love, more cuddling, etc" and I would have "I needed to show you more public displays of affection, more holding you". We made a lot of headway on big issues and small.

 

She cried on my shoulder and tried to kiss me. It felt very strange and I told her so... she worried that she'd left it too late to try again. I told her that I felt drained by this difficult conversation (we'd already been talking for hours), and that I dídn't think either of us were going to know how we feel unless we go out and have positive moments together.

 

One issue that really hurt to hear was that she felt like she'd lost physical attraction for me. She said it left when things went bad.. but that talking to me was bringing her feelings back. She wondered whether it was OK that it be so dependant on her feelings and how we interact. I told her I thought that was normal after this many years... attraction should be thought of "as a whole" not physical vs emotional. She agreed that no-one could ever turn her on mentally the way I do... then she admitted that some of her fear in this area had to do with thinking I wasn't attracted to her. I told her she was being silly, and joked that she could step into my bedroom and I'd SHOW her just how silly she's being. She smiled. But this is a tough one, cuz we both feed each other's insecurities... god we should be past this?!?

 

After talking for hours (although it felt like much less), I took her home. We both talked about how we fell in love. Reminded each other about how strong those feelings were... feeling like we'd found our soulmate. She said she still knew that she would never find that connection again.

 

Then for some strange reason she brought up the other guy. At first it was ok... she said he reminded her of what it felt like to feel "special" and that she realized now that if things work out, she needs to communicate her needs so that she wouldn't feel like she needed to find it elsewhere. She said she'd felt terrible that it took a breakup for her to realize that she'd lost her voice.

 

Unfortunately I asked her whether she would want to see him. She said, "only if things don't work out with us". For some reason this peeved me off... I was angry that she had "a backup plan". She denied that it was a backup plan, that she'd told him directly that she was going to sort out her feelings for me first, and that she'd apologized for leading him on. But I reminded her that she told ME she would call him if things don't work out, and that she'd said she'd said she'd put things "on hold" with him. (Am I over-reacting? Do I have a right to be angry that she has a backup plan?)

 

This argument went nowhere fast and I eventually told her to get out of my car. She pleaded and I didn't give in. I told her she had plenty of time to think this through, and if she wasn't ready to give things another try by the time she got back from her conference (she'll be gone for 10 days as of Wednesday) that she need not call me at all. She cried and said "I love you" on the way out the door.

 

I replied "what good does that do me as you leave my life?". She said "look, you might hear from me again".

 

She called my cell a half hour later at 2:30. I didn't answer. Her message simply said "it's me".

 

Should I be calling back? Or is this fear that I am closing down her window of opportunity going to help me?

 

Man I guess this is exhibit A of how NOT to end a productive day of relationship chats. I wish we could just go out and have fun, but she is such an analyser she wanted to do this hard part first.

[dikaia880]

Hmm....I think you might have over-reacted on the other guy thing...Think of it this way...he's the back up plan, not you....I would call and maybe apologize for not calling back right away (but not for getting upset, don't even bring that up...) you want almost all of your interaction to be positive and happy right now...it sounds like Sunday was really productive for you, don't let it slip away over something (that I think) silly, no foolish pride so to speak

Good luck with all of this, but I think you might want to say something to her before she leaves, maybe just call and wish her a good trip...

Dikaia

[shockeddismayed]

The clock struck 5pm and my cell phone rung. (Makes me think she'd been waiting to call all day, and wanted to wait until I was done work)

 

She wanted to say "I just wanted to say that even though things got hard at the end, I really enjoyed talking to you last night."

 

I said I enjoyed it too.

 

She said she'd been feeling regret today about things we'd done in the relationship... that things could somehow be better between us. And that she feels regret that we screwed it up. I agreed... but spun it by saying "or we were in the process of screwing it up" (as if to imply hope is not lost). She got my meaning and agreed.

 

She said she still feels like she needs a lot of work... to sort out her confusion and said that she feels like I have some work to do too.... that I need time to sort out my resentment. She said she felt it would be a LONG process.

 

I agreed it would be a long process, but said "It needn't be a lonely one". I also said "the unfortunate part is that my resentment might begin to grow the longer it takes for you to figure out that we could work through this together. That's why I think we need to include each other in this process".

 

Then I said that I don't understand what she is waiting for. I reflect back that I've heard her say she misses me, she is getting over the injury, she is beginning to feel attraction for me again, she can see our potential again and that she loves me. Finally, that she wanted to see if we were on the same page with respect to what needs to change, and we are as we came up with the SAME things. Any ONE of those things might be enough to make it worth TRYING (with emphasis on TRY). I told her I feel like she is changing targets/expectations of what she needs before being ready to try.

 

Her response "hmmm, yeah maybe"

 

I said "I don't mind saying that it sounds most like fear is holding you back"

 

Her: "I don't mind saying you might be right".

 

Me "I'm scared too... but I don't think any amount of alone time will take it away. If we try again, no matter when it is, the fear will still be there"

 

Me: "Anyway, I'm still at work, I need to go... maybe we can chat later".

 

Her: Ok.

[Scout]

Wow. It sounds like you're this close to getting back together. Do NOT panic and get into destructive arguments. Just keep acting like the things she asked for on the list. Hang in there. This is looking good, very good.

[SincerlyHurt]

Im at a loss for words. I read with great envy of your situation and will be trying your route very soon. Keep it cool, dont let haste foul things up for you and her. My situation is a little different because I will have to steal her back from the new guy, as she will have to steal me from the 6 or so gals I am dating. Good luck.

[shockeddismayed]

Scout, Dragongirl,

 

Thanks for your support. I'm really feeling like this is such a balancing act. I mean there are so many things you have to juggle when you get to this stage:

 

1) I need to be patient and in order to do that I need to keep my emotions in check. But if I keep my emotions hidden, she can feel it even when she tries to hug or kiss me... she interprets this as me not really loving her... which feeds back into her fears.

2) Pride: I've done all this work to recover and she is taking so long with this decision it making me feel that she can't possibly love me as much as I deserve... otherwise wouldn't it be easier for her to decide? On the other hand, if she really did love me, it would take her a long time to get over the injury of what went wrong... and her fear response would be all that much stronger....

3) Open communication vs keeping a positive atmosphere: She wants to be open about everything, but this appears to be a double standard. Our chat yesterday was mostly about what I could do to improve the relationship. When will she actually HEAR what it was she was doing that caused my resentment... I mentioned these things to her, but she DIDN'T hear it... she gave me the impression that she thought they were minor concerns...

4) Giving her time vs getting what I need: Right now I need some positive interaction to break through my own barriers... but she is too fearful of spending light times together... she'd rather analyze this to death... and that is exactly what she is doing... I grow more bitter as time goes on.

5) Giving vs being a doormat: This is moving SLOWLY in the right direction... but at the same time, I feel like I risk her thinking she can just take all the time she wants... this isn't fair to me. However me putting a deadline on her decision (like I did the other night) isn't all that fair to her either. It's such a tough call.

 

It's tough... b/c I feel like I had SO much more patience earlier, but it was wasted waiting for the phonecalls. Now that they are here, I want things to change overnight... I find myself wanting her to TELL me we are trying again, instead of just watching what she is doing (which should give me a clear message that she is trying again.. albeit slowly).

 

Anyway, I am going to call her back tonight before she leaves on her trip. She mentioned the other day that she likes to "dump all the issues on the table" and then deal with them one by one. I've been feeling as though there are a few issues that were not resolved on Sunday (in particular it felt like I took most of the blame for what went wrong). She then asked me the next day to figure out why I was so angry with her... I told her why earlier and she must not have been listening.

 

So... I have an agenda for my call:

1) Talk about her trip, and comment positively on how nice it will be for her..

2) Mention that I heard her say she wants me to work on my resentment, and I will. But also comment that my list had her issues (ie what I did) on it, and her list had her issues on it... mention that it seemed like what I did wrong got more airplay... perhaps the next step is for us BOTH to think about what might help me feel less of a target in the relationship. Perhaps SHE could also focus on what might have made me resentful.

3) Suggest that maybe it's also time that we work on a list of what could go very right with us... what we miss about each other... what we would enjoy most if things work out. Tell her she doesn't have to share this with me unless/until she's ready, but that it might help us both work through things instead of constantly focussing on the negative.

4) Wish her luck and relaxation on her trip... tell her I'll look forward to seeing her when she gets back.

 

Whatdya think?

[shockeddismayed]

Im at a loss for words. I read with great envy of your situation and will be trying your route very soon. Keep it cool, dont let haste foul things up for you and her. My situation is a little different because I will have to steal her back from the new guy, as she will have to steal me from the 6 or so gals I am dating. Good luck.

 

 

 

Oh man,... the grass is always greener. I mean I've been in secret jealousy of the 6 girls you've been able to meet and be friendly with. My social life has involved joining a new soccer team (all male), and having a beer with my married pals.... in one hand I have a beer, and in the other I have a screaming baby. I try to convince them they should go out and be my wingman, but for some reason their wives just don't like the idea.

 

I'm trying to keep it cool. But it is tough (as you can see from that agenda above) to realize that I need to keep my own needs a bit hidden for a little while longer.

 

I can say I know that... but its the execution that is tough.

[dikaia880]

I like your thoughts on having you two right a list of positives, things that went right that will go right (or at least can)...Like I've said a couple times, while the negative needs to be addressed the positive needs to be put into the best and brightest light...Sort of Like Public Relations, not necessarily "spin" as some may call it...but more like a balance between optimism and pessimism...and keeping the scales tilted a little more towards the optimism...

Maybe instead of trying to get her to focus on the things that went wrong on her trip have her do the positives list while she's on vacation...wish her a good relaxing time...leave her with a 'positives' mind frame from the last conversation so that she dwells on the positives over her trip...good luck!

[shockeddismayed]

Ok...So I called her. It went pretty well. Made small chit chat... talked about her trip. All good so far.

 

She kinda brought up #2 above (my resentment).... and we chatted a bit. It became clear that she wanted me to work on it b/c she thought that it might indicate that I didn't love her enough. I had to tell her that wasn't true... but she persisted and said "well it must have come from somewhere". I was stuck so I told her that I'd already told her what had bothered me, but somehow what I was upset about wasn't "legit" in her mind so she is searching for more... in reality the fact that when I am upset she doesn't see it as "legit" is the EXACT reason why I get resentful.

 

Then I needed to backtrack, so I spun it around by saying "what I find strange is that you asked me to make a list about what could be improved, and I came up with all the things I could do improve and one or two that you could improve... you came up with all of the things I could improve and the only thing you could improve was in "communicating what you want more effectively"... why didn't I come up with a list of things that had bothered ME... perhaps I'm not communicating well to you either".

 

I know that wasn't ideal, that the timing is totally off... that I should have waited for that.. but once she started calling me on my resentment it was better she know the truth which is that I've often felt like I take on more responsibility for what goes wrong it the relationship. And she seems to "not get it" when I do have a concern or something has upset me.

 

She (surprisingly) seemed to take this all in stride though... I guess she was happier to hear that we're not effectively communicating my concerns than she was thinking that my resentment had an underpining of being "stuck" in a relationship with someone I didn't love. (again: her fear)

 

Anyway... I changed the subject, and told her that what I really wanted to talk to her about was making a top ten list of fun things that we would look forward to if we tried again. I told her she could make it fun or goofy if she wanted... be creative. Her voice lightened and she said that it was a great idea. I was surprised by that!

 

After that we chatted a bit more about light fun stuff and then ended the call... when we ended it I wished her a great trip, and that I'd look forward to "maybe seeing you when you get back". She chuckled nervously and said "yeah ok". (?? Nervous because I said maybe, or nervous cuz I said "seeing you when you get back"??? who knows?).

 

I followed up with, "have fun making your list" and got another nervous (but postive) reply. Then some pleasant goodbyes.

 

So.... it seems pretty clear that this call was just a bit too much for her. Oh well... better a bit too much than too little... she'll be gone for over 10 days so she'll have plenty of time to recover from this "push".

 

Another big pro is that we've now had two chats since my "ultimatum" and it hasn't been mentioned. That will keep her worried enough to focus on things... but not so worried that she feels too much pressure (hopefully).

 

Besides... the terrain of where she is going will make her think of mountain biking... and MTBing will make her think of me. She'll also be spending two days after the conference camping with another couple who are mutual friends of ours.... I'm gold (trying to be positive).

[shockeddismayed]

Uggghhh...

 

Post #100 on this thread... wow how time flies.

 

I woke up this morning feeling a bad taste from my emotional push last night. I'm not sure that is the right way to describe it... we certainly weren't over-emotional or anything, but I did disclose some concerns about the relationship I hadn't really talked to her about yet.

 

There was even a bit more discussed than I reported in my last post... including that we talked about her insecurity that I was always attracted to her... but that the way she told me about it actually ended up hitting an insecurity button with me. Anyway she was surprised and apologized...

 

But nevertheless I felt crappy this morning for having discussed those heavy topics last night. We made good headway, but I felt the timing was terrible... we are both so tired from our emotional meeting this past weekend. Too much too soon... you know?

 

So I called her this am (oh I know, you are rolling your eyes). but I just said "look, I'm sorry we discussed all that we did last night... a lot of that could have waited till later. Some of those issues are things that can only be worked on if we decide to get back together... they are the issues couples deal with throughout a relationship, so we'd have plenty of time. I don't want you to feel that these things need to be solved on your trip"

 

She said "no problem, I wasn't worried about it... and don't worry I'm realizing you were right about our big meeting this weekend, we need to be careful not to burn each other out... I've been feeling very tired since we spoke. Positive, but tired. I'm looking forward to relaxing on my trip."

 

I said "Great.. I want you to have a great time... try and relax, I'll do the same, and if you MUST think about us, think about that fun list instead of the heavy stuff".

 

"Ok Shocked, have a great day"

 

"You too".