A very tragic hi

[AronSchneider]

Look, I’m pro abortion and my ex-girlfriend did one when we were 16-17 years old. It had to be done because there were no chance in hell we could have that child. But then we had support and we both had parents that could help us. But this is worse

 

1. She does not have a permanent Visa

2. She does not speak the language

3. She has very few social rights

4. She has just a room in an apartment (that is in the ghetto)

5. She has no parents and family that can help her out

6. She has very few friends here

7. She has no income or stable job

8. Her degree is worth nothing here, but a lot in London

9. She cannot keep and plan her economics (She is even worse then I)

10. Who will care for the child when she is working her bad paid job, can she even survive...

11. She can be in bed for the whole day and do nothing, just talk with her friends on the phone.

 

Look there is no chance in hell she can pull this off. I asked her! Can you or can you not provide for this child...and she says..."I do not know"...That is fatalism. Abortion is the reason why we have so very few unwanted babies in Scandinavia! We use abortion as a tool in cases like this!

[ErikT]

WEll, it is obvious that your mind is made up and that if it were up to you, you would kill the baby. I realise that no one on this board is going to convince you otherwise. That is a shame that you are not open to alternative and, in my opinion, better options. Sorry if I sound bitter, but I think that you simply want to use the "tools" available to you to make your life easier and more convienent. It is amazing how 8 years ago you had no other choice and now you have no other choice. It is easy to rationize things if they make your life simpler.

 

Luckily for the child, you do not have the ultimate say in whether your bed partner has an abortion or not. It sounds like her mind is made up and will not go through with it regardless of your opinion.

 

As for your bed partner, yes it sounds like things will be tough for her and you will have no contact in her or your childs life. I can only hope that once she has the child, she will mature and do everything in HER power to see that the child has the best life possible. It may not be the most idealistic life, but it beats your alternative.

 

Good luck on finishing the important things in your life (your Masters.)

 

Again, sorry if I seem bitter and sarcastic, but I just can't fathom putting your life ahead of that of a child.

 

Erik

[TheSmilingTurnip]

It sounds like you need to be a little bit more careful about having sex. You've now had at least one child of yours aborted and you also want to off another one that you accidentally conceived with someone you had no intention of being with forever. Control yourself.

[Hope75]

Abortion is a choice the SHE will make.... with or without your consent. Bottom line, If she chooses to keep the baby she can and will and if you are the parent you are responsible, whether you want to be or not.

[AronSchneider]

Update

 

We have not spoken for a couple of months, after she flipped out at our last conversation. A woman called me today and she spoke in my native language. I asked her who she was and if she was some kind social worker, nurse or anything else that would call me and ask me to show up for an Paternity Test. This woman was some kind of friend to her and from the same country and called for my “pregnant” friend behalf. She told me that I needed to fill in some papers that would make me (without) a Paternity test the father of the child. The reason why she said, was that my “Pregnant” friend wanted state benefits right away and that she was afraid that I would not show up for a Paternity test. I said of course NO, but I said that if a social worker or any other person that would handle her case I would do that paternity test.

 

I called my “pregnant” friend up. She told me that she was in her 7th month. She told me that she could not work her lousy cleaning job because it was too heavy for her. She told me that she got some papers form them to fill in about her getting child benefits from the company or the state. But she will likely not getting anything from them. She told me that she had not studied for one year and not paid her student fee. (Finally she admits it). That means that she can be deported from Sweden. In Sweden nationality is connected to the mother so the child will be Cameroonian. My “pregnant” friend told me that the nurses had told her that they would help her out after the child was born. The thing that she does not understand is that she has very few right because of her status as an student. She will, with no doubt be an ilegal alien after the summer. This will be a juridical mess!

 

Everything else was a blur and there is something she does not want to say. The worst part about her is that she never says anything. In one moment she is about to move to this woman that called me and in the next moment she will not. Still she is confused every time I ask for some details. The child will come in July..so we will see then..

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Maybe you should try being a little more proactive on this. If that is your child, you've really got to step up, maybe even help her get the paternity test done so that at least you will really know for sure.

 

If that is your child and she's not going to be able to take care of it properly, don't you want to step in and save that child from a terrible life? Is that something you can do, or are you also unprepared and unable to do so? I just really feel that waiting for the guillotine to just fall and not taking any active steps is not the right way to go here.

[Honey Pumpkin]

Wow, if this is your child, you're being incredibly irresponsible, acting as though it's nothning to do with you. I remember your post and responded, so I am shocked that you're still trying to duck all responsibility.

[BellaDonna]

She told me that I needed to fill in some papers that would make me (without) a Paternity test the father of the child.

 

DO NOT fill out those papers.

 

Bottom line: a paternity test needs to be done.

 

IF the child is yours then the both of you will have to do the right thing and support the child, since you both had intercourse to create it.

[catfeeder]

DO NOT fill out those papers.

 

Bottom line: a paternity test needs to be done.

 

IF the child is yours then the both of you will have to do the right thing and support the child, since you both had intercourse to create it.

 

I second this. It sounded like something was up from the second she wanted sex without the condom. I'd put the moral finger-wags on a back burner and I'd most especially avoid ANY legal commitments unless and until you're allowed a simple paternity test. Without that, I'd consider all bets OFF.

 

In your corner.

[Lainers]

I second this. It sounded like something was up from the second she wanted sex without the condom. I'd put the moral finger-wags on a back burner and I'd most especially avoid ANY legal commitments unless and until you're allowed a simple paternity test. Without that, I'd consider all bets OFF.

 

In your corner.

 

I third it!

[AronSchneider]

I and my (unborn) son’s mother are at talking point. She called me almost three weeks ago –saying that her delivery was close. I have tried for months to reject everything in my mind. I really hoped that it was all lies. Two weeks ago they called me from the social service. She had mentioned me as the only father. The woman that called me was polite; she didn’t give me her last name so I thought in the beginning it was some kind of hoax. A couple of months ago a woman (a friend of hers) had called me and pushed me to take care of my son’s mother. So my first thought was that this was the same thing, some kind of hoax. This time it was for real.

 

A couple of days ago I went to this social service institution. The social institution was located in a ghastly ugly ghetto suburban, were she currently live. I think I was the only white person there apart from the social workers. A woman came and met me in the door and showed me to her office. The woman that was handling “our case” looked tired, like most social workers, working in a tuff district. She was very polite, and very easy to talk too. In the beginning of the interview she asked me about our relationship to one another.

 

I said the truth. That I was dumped by my ex and was depressed and meet this girl through my University, we dated for a couple of months and then she sent me an text message a month or more after the break up and told me that she was pregnant. I could not say much more and my eyes started to fill with tears. I excused myself and went to the bathroom in the corridor and vomited. When I came back, I was a bit more rational. The social worker put a couple of napkins on the table.

 

I talked more about the situation with her, and it was surprisingly going well. I was also surprised about this social workers attitude. She was not condemning. I asked this social worker a bunch of questions. It seems that when I told that social worker about my sons mothers situation – she was astonished. My son’s mother had not told the social worker everything and according to the social-worker, my son’s mother would fall between the chairs. In the end of the session I signed all the papers necessary and when my unborn son’s mother signs, I will officially be the father. We have not decided yet if we will share custody.

 

My sons mother is entitled to child support from the social insurance office (they step in for me), universal child support from the state (Yes, all Swedish children up to 18 get money from the state regardless of their parents income) and some money in maternity leave (from her company she works for) All in all: she will get about 600 US dollars each month. If she is lucky she will get social welfare – that would add enough money to her income of 600 US dollar so she can survive.

 

The main problem here is that she is a student and students are not entitled to welfare. This may be solved, but according to the social worker and my research it will be a juridical mess – that can take months. Her case is very unusual. Her best chance is to get a permanent residence. Something she could get because of the citizenship of our child. That would solve everything for her. But now her problem is pretty much acute.

 

I called her today and asked where she stayed. It seems that she borrow a room at some friend’s apartment close to her “original” home. So she stays with a (working-class) nuclear African immigrant family. She still gets her mail to her old student apartment. I asked her how long she will stay there. She told me that she could stay there for two months and after that she will be homeless. That was really hurting. I asked her if she bought some food for the money I transferred to her account. She says shat she bought a portable bed to the kid. I gave her 200 US-dollars last week. That would cover a (very cheap) bed for about 100 dollars including sheets from IKEA. I even saw one for 70 US dollars including sheets at IKEA. Then she would have 100 dollars to spend on food. But she told me that she had bought a bed for my 200 dollars and then she had used her last 100 dollars to buy accessories to the bed and some “stuff” (I hate the word stuff) for herself. I gasped!

 

It’s the same fatalist, live for the day - attitude from her side. It’s the same every time I call her. She doesn’t seem to care about things and say things like quote “I don’t want to bother my head”. The more I get to know her the more I realize that it’s something very wrong with her. She lies constantly, she talks in question marks and she can say (When I ask her to speak up) that she talk little because quote “They say that women talk too much”.

 

It took her one year to recognize that the reason why she left her Master’s program was because she flunked. She took in total 15 points (that is equivalent to half a term) and she studied there for almost 1 year. I also think she has a pretty low IQ comparing to others. She has difficult to understand simple things and her view of the world are just very un-intellectual. It may be her culture that is making things difficult here. Either way, it seems that the more I get involved the more afraid I become. I don’t want my kid growing up with her in that kind of environment. I also realize that the Swedish welfare system and the bureaucracy are really not flawless.

 

The good news is that I’m conditionally admitted to my master program in political science. If I pass my last exam in August I will enter the highest ranked Masters program in political science in Europe and go (I go there already, though) to one of world’s top (among the top 100) Universities. If I get in and pass it – I will have a lot of doors open (much more then I have now) and I could (after a couple of years of working) make enough so I can help my son out from the ghetto.

 

The kid is late but he will come out soon. In a couple of weeks I will go to France - I hope that trip will help me to get mentally away from everything for awhile. The worst thing, when I leave the county, living comfortable is My son is with that woman!

[TheSmilingTurnip]

If your worry about your son would translate into concrete actions, such as planning to raise him, then that would be best for your son. If you are truly worried, then you need to take actions to help your child. Do you have any family that can help you?

[AronSchneider]

If your worry about your son would translate into concrete actions, such as planning to raise him, then that would be best for your son. If you are truly worried, then you need to take actions to help your child. Do you have any family that can help you?

 

Well, Ive tried but it seems that its pretty much nothing I can do. I do not have the money to buy an apartment to me or to her. I live in a studenthousing. She cannot stay there. Also, she do not live in he same city as me anymore. That is also a bit problematic. I cannot ask my parents for help. They make a lot of money, but they are a bit conservative and it would create an unrest in my family and I do not want to be kicked out from my family - because of this.

 

Right now, I live on their expense and they are angry with me because I did not find any summerjob. Last summer my ex-girlfriend destroyed my summer, this summer it is my unborn sons mom. The only thing I have in mind is to get in to my Mastersprogram and to pass my last exam. That is the only thing I can do right now and my only "working" plan.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Last summer my ex-girlfriend destroyed my summer, this summer it is my unborn sons mom. The only thing I have in mind is to get in to my Mastersprogram and to pass my last exam. That is the only thing I can do right now and my only "working" plan.

 

I think it's important to look at your perspective on this. A lot of people seem to be doing things to you. You seem awfully passive on this. Please recognize that only you have the power to ruin anything for yourself. You're not a victim. It might be a good idea to examine how you think of yourself in these situations, and to change it from someone suffering from others' choices to someone making their own choices and taking action to live with the benefits or consequences of that.

[AronSchneider]

I think it's important to look at your perspective on this. A lot of people seem to be doing things to you. You seem awfully passive on this. Please recognize that only you have the power to ruin anything for yourself. You're not a victim. It might be a good idea to examine how you think of yourself in these situations, and to change it from someone suffering from others' choices to someone making their own choices and taking action to live with the benefits or consequences of that.

 

So what do you think I should do? Drop school and work on McDonalds until I get a job as a underpaid social-worker?

[TheSmilingTurnip]

So what do you think I should do? Drop school and work on McDonalds until I get a job as a underpaid social-worker?

 

I don't think you're catching my meaning. I told you to do nothing but just take a good hard look at your thinking, the same kind of thinking that got you into this situation. Many, many things seem to happen TO you, and I don't hear a whole lot of you taking charge of the situation. That is what I'm referring to.

 

Your thinking is a bit limited; there's usually more than one option in any given situation. You seem caught in frantic fears, and I would like to suggest that you really look at and face all your fears. Then you will feel less frantic and more calm about this situation, and you will be able to think more clearly. I think you know you can't run from it or ignore it, so you have to face it head on.

 

I think it's important for you to recognize that that is your child she is carrying (presumably). Like it or not, you're about to become a father, and so you must face your fears about that.

 

Why don't you actually talk to your family about their grandchild who is on the way? Yes, you might be uncomfortable, but that is a far cry from what your child is going to experience!

 

What do I mean by facing your fears? Well, let's see, you fear your family's reaction -- why not tell someone in your family that you can trust and practice on that person? Sooner or later your family's got to find out.

 

You fear the mother not raising the child properly or not meeting its needs. Alright, what needs are yet to be met? How can you help meet them? Do you need to get a lawyer and acquire custody of your child in order to protect it?

[catfeeder]

So what do you think I should do? Drop school and work on McDonalds until I get a job as a underpaid social-worker?

 

We've all told you what to do: Paternity Test.

 

If you're not interested in freeing yourself from this mess, then there you are.

[AronSchneider]

We've all told you what to do: Paternity Test.

 

If you're not interested in freeing yourself from this mess, then there you are.

 

Well, it seems that Im the father. I do accept that.

[catfeeder]

Well, it seems that Im the father. I do accept that.

 

Big difference between 'seems' versus DNA. Have you taken any steps to determine the truth? It could set you free...

[AronSchneider]

Yesterday I called my sons mother. I called her several times and she told me that she was about to gave birth. The funny thing was that she was supposed to call me when I should come to the hospital but she never called. Either way, I went there to the clinic at the University Hospital. It was a bit uncomfortable. The first thing they asked me who my wife was and when I told them who she was and gave them the control number they couldn’t believe it, maybe because I’m white and she is from Africa and speak no Swedish.

 

They took me into a room and showed me my son. I was surprised how white he was. He has light brown hair, white baby hair around his body, blue eyes and very fair skin. He looks like a baby made by two white people, he has no biracial features. I went with a nurse to my son’s mom, with my son in a baby wagon. They had made an acute Caesarean section so she was a bit tired. There were a lot of nurses there, walking in and out from her room. And my son’s mom was connected to different kind of technical medical devices. It was a lot of blood. So I stepped out for awhile.

 

Later we got a private room at the long term medical-care with two beds. One bed was for me and one was for her. I sleep for the night and now I’m here still at the hospital with her. It’s pretty cheap. She pays 10 US dollar per Night and I pay 30 dollars per night. All food and medicals included Thank god for Swedish universal healthcare. All the nurses talk about the baby. First of all, they don’t have patients that speak English and second, bi-racial children with a white husband are very unusual. All the nurses find my kid extra ordinary.

 

But this will not be easy at all. So now I’m pretty clueless. I will be here with her and our son the week out. He is very healthy, but a bit big. He wages 4, 4 kilograms. It’s the mother that they are worried about – like all mothers that have went through an acute Caesarean section.

 

I’m more worried about what will happen after. She can just stay in her room in some friend’s apartment for 30-40 days more. I asked her to get back to her student apartment but she doesn’t want to. I will go way on Friday and we be gone for a couple of weeks. I have also a lot to study. I will be home at the evenings studying and be here during the days. It’s a lot of thinking about.

 

I’m very sure the kid is mine and Im so affraid of him.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Congratulations! Your little boy sounds absolutely beautiful. Are you sure he's not got some special purpose on this earth?

 

You've got to find someone to talk to about this who can offer you some help. Your parents are probably the right people to turn to.

 

Please re-think keeping them out of the loop. This is their grandson, their blood too. They may have ideas you have not thought of and they do love you. How do you feel about your son? Are you in love with or bonded with him? Have you held him? I know you are afraid right now...but what is there to fear really? He is here now and nothing will change that. This doesn't have to end unhappily. You're only as sick as your secrets so please don't keep this a secret any longer. Talk to your mom and dad.

[AronSchneider]

It has been turbulent Days. At first I was so uncertain if I could hold him. But now I feel comfortable to hold him and its very tuff to leave him every time. He is so alike me. I have been at the hospital since Tuesday and we went home today. The more my son’s mother becomes better from the operation, the worse the situation gets. She invited a priest yesterday to the hospital. He was very friendly.

 

He started to talk about circumcision, baptizing and even prayed for him. I’m not very religious and I don’t want my son to be circumcised.

 

Today, when we left the hospital, one of the nurses gave my sons mother information about legal ways of circumcision and where she should turn. It would cost about 1000 kr (130 US dollar) if it’s done in a legal way. She had asked about this without asking me. This is not okay! The good news is that she cannot afford it and the second good news is that the child cannot be over two months if it’s not a medical threat. If it’s done illegally – she will with no doubt loose the custody of the child.

 

Just before we left the hospital I and my son’s mother started an argument. I got very upset when the nurse gave her all this information. I got even more upset when my sons mother told me and the nurse that she had no place to live and that my son’s mom didn’t care much for it. When the nurse walked out from the room, my son’s mom started to behave very irrational and she didn’t want to answer my questions. When I asked her if she had money to buy baby milk-products (her breast didn’t at that time produce milk) she told me that I shouldn’t bother. I had it; I was minutes from crying. How could my son’s mother say such a thing?

 

I went out from the room. I meet the nurse just outside the door and she asked me how everything where going. I told her about these cultural differences and just in that moment my son’s mother opened the door and got very upset. She feels very threatened when “white people” discuss her. I can understand that but she discusses things in African broken English – English I cannot understand. This cultural thing is making me crazy!

 

When she invited this friends to the hospital the nurses and me gets worried. My son’s mother finds this behavior racist – but only close family should be invited according to the hospital rules and her friends and priest are not close family. They also run around in a corridor that is deliberative locked for outsiders – for security reasons. Either way

 

it got over hand and my son’s moronic mother started to accuse me for things I haven’t done and she said that she would ban me from seeing my child until he was 18 in front of the nurse. It was very irrational behavior. My son’s mother agreed that I would follow her by cab to her temporary room she gets for free from her friends she have in her church. The taxi driver (he was Black by the way) was very helpful.

 

When we went through the ghetto she lives in I started to get scared and when I saw the apartment and I got scared and when I saw the room and I got very scared. The apartment was dirty and the only thing of value was a large TV-screen. The rest looked terrible. Sure, I have a middle class standard but still, it was really terrible and a filthy apartment. Her room was very small. She had a very large bed, a bed with dirty pillows with no cover. It smelled. It was filled up with her things. The worst thing was that there were sharp objects on the floor.

 

I said that my child should not be here and that I would pay her a cab to my parents house (they are currently abroad for a shorter Golf Holiday) but she refused. Then I said that we should go back to the hospital or take the train to my apartment in my student-town. She refused. I then asked her if she could show me the perambulator – she bought. She got very upset and kicked me out. But just when I was on my way I forgot my hat so I went back and she had apparently followed me. Regrets I think. She showed me the perambulator.

 

We talked for a while and soon after her friends came and I and some guy fixed her the baby bed (she had bought with my money). I had my son in my arms for the most of the time I were there. I got very upset when they talked very loudly and extensively with each other. Of course, they just spoke their African languages and talked about things I cannot agree with. Worst of all, they carried my child without washing their hands first. Cleanness is very important when handling newborn children – but nor my sons mom nor her friends seemed to care. My sons mom had very clear instructions and there should be few people around and that there should be no loud noises. My son’s mom is also starting to alienate me from my son - like saying that I cannot be with them tomorrow or on Sunday. She does not want to see my parents either. She says that she will not want help by snobbish white people (She thinks the same thing of the white nurses). When I left – I told my son that I would not let him down. I will fight for him and that I would come back.

 

My sister is currently in Italy for the weekend, and I send her a picture of my son and we will talk tomorrow. I will also let my parents know in a couple of weeks, when everything has cooled down, my sister has met my son and my son’s mom and after our family holiday in France. My family wills with no doubt help me and my son out. On Monday I will see my son and his mom again and follow them to the clinic for some checkups.

 

I will not let my son down. He will not be raised in poverty.

[BellaDonna]

Hey, first, congratulations on your son!

 

Second, I was just wondering how the system works where you are. In the case of 2 parents from 2 culturally diverse backgrounds, can a social worker be called in to help the 2 of you sort through everything?

 

I would also seek the advice of a lawyer, if I were you.

 

The ideal would be that both of you make parenting decisions, together and that you spend equal time to spend with the baby.

[AronSchneider]

Hey, first, congratulations on your son!

 

Second, I was just wondering how the system works where you are. In the case of 2 parents from 2 culturally diverse backgrounds, can a social worker be called in to help the 2 of you sort through everything?

 

I would also seek the advice of a lawyer, if I were you.

 

The ideal would be that both of you make parenting decisions, together and that you spend equal time to spend with the baby.

 

Thank you.

 

The good thing in Sweden is that child rights here are extensively. The law here is clear – protect the child to call costs. Now, this has been nagged because of cultural relativist’s policies.

 

But still the child rights come first. All the papers are not finished yet. I’m not officially the father until my sons mother sign the paternity papers. I have signed my part, but not the shared custody paper. I wanted us to do that together. She can, if she wants to reject me as the father (telling the social service that I’m not the father and not mention a father) and my son would not get a Swedish citizenship. A citizenship is a good guarantee that he gets all the benefits. She is not a citizen, nor does she have a permanent residency so she has very few rights.

 

This cultural issue is enormous and that is what making me so afraid and some of the cultural things are in fact illegal here. The key is: If we have shared custody, we are forced to agree upon school, when she can leave the country and the most important, right now, Circumcision. If she proceed with a circumcision, I will do everything in my power to get her kicked out from the country and that the custody goes to me and my imitate family.

 

Right now it’s too early and I don’t think I should push my son’s mom for shared custody, she has many times said that she wanted me to have shared custody and I rejected it. Well, things are changed now when he is born.

 

There is family guidance so that will be provided for. The problematic thing here is that I cannot be around so much because she has no own apartment and secondly I live in another city.

 

I don’t care for my masters anymore, I will enlist for it but only until I get a job. I have begun apply for different kind of white color government jobs. When I get one I will move back to Stockholm so I can be close to him and her. If I just get one I would have the money to buy a small apartment (with my parents as co-signers) in a middle class area.

 

I will not take this so far right now; my son has just been home for 24 hours.

 

When my parents know, they will likely start a legal process, If there is need for one. But hopefully my son can be integrated to my family without any fuss. That is what I want most so he becomes swedish (He has every swedish phenotypical characteristics so it will be easy for him to be accepted in the society, he dont even look hispanic. Its crazy!) But I have no problem, if he speaks his mothers languges to (English, French and some pidgin) and if he takes up some of the good sides of Cameroonian/African culture like hospitality, the food culture, african history and so on. But he should be primarly Swedish and have our values and adopt our way of life.

 

I know that this is an American server and that you have to be so sensitive to racial and cultural issues. But my son lives in Sweden (one of the richest and highley developed countries in the world), so he could be raised as a Swede. Yes, i can be a cultural relativist too and I can argue for those standpoints. I have spend almost 5 years at the University studying racial, social, cultural, historical and political issues.

 

But this is no academic seminarium, this is real life and in real life I will not accept anything that is not valid from a swedish standpoint, even though I can let my child have some of the (what i consider) is good values from her mothers culture. It will be the same thing when it comes to raising him. Just because you are allowed to hit your child in Cameroon, it does not mean is okay here (Its by the way ilegal here to punish your child in any physical way, an pretty uniqe law even in Europe).

 

But so long she give me 50 percent (including the circimcision issue) of the him. Im okay with it.