My personal interpretation of the "nice" guy vs the player guy

[lady00]

I have no desire to change who I am. The jerk is self righteous. The nice guy is also self righteous too. Why? because nice guys secretly think that a woman owes them a relationship for being nice. It's just that the self righteousness is more overt in the jerk but more subtle with the nice guy.

 

Guess if you mean in in the "jerk" vs. "nice guy" dichotomy...then being a "jerk" is "better."

 

I thought you meant in the general sense of the word jerk. Sorry if I misunderstood that.

[grymoire]

Well, no. A girl with high self-esteem will not be with a jerk or ahole just because he looks good. Been there done that. Lost interest really quickly when I realized that behind the hot exterior was a douche.

 

Of course attraction is required for a relationship. But being a jerk will get you dumped, unless the girl has no self-esteem and likes being treated like dirt.

 

right. and the guy you did not find physically attractive is still alone regardless of he is a jerk or a nice guy or a great guy or a wussy guy.

[madmarten]

I have no desire to change who I am. The jerk is self righteous. The nice guy is also self righteous too. Why? because nice guys secretly think that a woman owes them a relationship for being nice. It's just that the self righteousness is more overt in the jerk but more subtle with the nice guy.

 

A guy is better off if he approaches the situation, that nobody owes him anything.

 

(oh and he vice-versa)

[lady00]

right. and the guy you did not find physically attractive is still alone regardless of he is a jerk or a nice guy or a great guy or a wussy guy.

 

Well, no. He is not alone, necessarily. Unless no one finds him attractive. The fact that I don't find someone physically attractive doesn't mean other women won't. There are plenty of guys I am not attracted to who have girlfriends. This happens all day every day. I don't find any of my friends' boyfriends, husbands, or fiances attractive. Just not my taste. My friends are nuts about them though. So clearly, people have different tastes. What is attractive to one person isn't attractive to another.

[gracerules2008]

A guy is better off if he approaches the situation, that nobody owes him anything.

 

(oh and he vice-versa)

 

 

Right. He's better off approaching the situation with indifference towards the outcome. If a man is sincerely indifferent as to whether a woman is going to approve of him or not then she's going to sense that.

 

Usually the women come to you when you become indifferent. I don't owe her anything and neither does she owe me anything period.

[Truth317]

Listen folks, this is real talk...

 

If a woman is not attracted to you or interested for whatever reason, there isn't a thing you can do about that. She either likes you or she doesn't. It doesn't matter how smooth your game is or how much of a doormat you are..

Even if you're a super-duper doormat of a nice guy.. it doesn't really matter if she still likes you.. she will still find a way to make it work. Just the same as if you're a super-duper jerk or "playa" if she likes you.. she'll still find a way to make things workout...

[ConfusedDater]

Listen folks, this is real talk...

 

If a woman is not attracted to you or interested for whatever reason, there isn't a thing you can do about that. She either likes you or she doesn't. It doesn't matter how smooth your game is or how much of a doormat you are..

Even if you're a super-duper doormat of a nice guy.. it doesn't really matter if she still likes you.. she will still find a way to make it work. Just the same as if you're a super-duper jerk or "playa" if she likes you.. she'll still find a way to make things workout...

 

 

 

Well explain why there are ugly men with pretty woman???

[Nutz]

Most women are not attracted to "nice guys" because they're not a challenge. Jerks and a-holes are, hence they get the lion's share of booty. That's what it all boils down to. All the advice I give guys on the subject comes down to 2 things really:

 

1) Don't be a doormat

2) Be bold

 

Everything the OP is talking about is echoed in these posts, especially the first wrt the insincerity and unspoken intent of the so-called "nice guy":

 

link removed -- Part 1

link removed -- Part 2

link removed -- Part 3

[LonelyJokko]

Well explain why there are ugly men with pretty woman???

 

Well, you know physical attraction is a difficult thing to understand let alone to explain. I can bet you I could be attracted by girls you would deem unattractive and vice verca. I don't think there is much to be said about it, that's how it is Sometimes of course, there's money haha but that's another story.

[Timebandit]

Well, you know physical attraction is a difficult thing to understand let alone to explain. I can bet you I could be attracted by girls you would deem unattractive and vice verca.

 

You say that physical attraction is difficult to understand and to explain, but yet you claim that physical attraction is the reason why some women (deemed hot by the majority) are together with men (who are certainly not deemed hot by societys standards).

 

As someone who have had very low self-esteem (even social phobia) I can tell you, that being confident, relaxed and open has helluva importance in relation to attraction. Not that confidence is the only determinant.

 

But let me just ask you a simple question. Will a guy have the greatest chance of attracting women if he:

 

• Stands in the corner and looks at his shoes because he is too shy
  
• Has fun with other people, talks to women and touches them (appropriately)
  

If physical attraction (and I assume you don't mean that non-verbal language is included here) is the only thing that matters, then the guy would have the same ability to attract women in both situations.

[Mguy92]

I don't consider myself overly nice, I mean, I'm an opinionated person and certainly not a "Yes" man, but I'm also painfully shy. I've concluded that women hate me and are not willing to give me a chance. I wish they would, though.

 

Blargh...

[gracerules2008]

I don't think being nice is necessarily a turn off as long as the guy is nice with good intentions. If you are nice without expecting anything in return then you are not a "nice guy" but rather a "balanced guy."

 

But make no mistake about it. Women are very good at detecting the motives behind a man's niceness. They're good at seeing right through it when a man has an agenda. I believe God put this intuition in all of us but women are just more sensitive to it. Women know what a guy is thinking at all times.

 

If he's nice because he thinks she owes him a relationship in return she will pick up on it and that's why she gets turned off. It's not his niceness but the self righteousness behind the niceness that turns her off.

[LonelyJokko]

I agree with your comment in that physical attraction is far from being the only component to attraction: self confidence and a certain state of mind are as important and do in my opinion play a major role in physical attraction: confidence (high or low) is likely to affect body language and I believe someone who smiles, makes eye contact, and keeps is head high will be far more attractive than someone, as you say, who keeps looking at his shoes. I suppose I just meant to point out that appearance (be it "beauty" or body language) is the first (at least in sequence) "rule of attraction", and that even someone who is not considered by most people to be "hot" can make himself more attractive, more physically appealing to many.

 

I hope my comment makes sense

Jerome.

[Timebandit]

I suppose I just meant to point out that appearance (be it "beauty" or body language) is the first (at least in sequence) "rule of attraction", and that even someone who is not considered by most people to be "hot" can make himself more attractive, more physically appealing to many.

 

I hope my comment makes sense

 

I think we agree

[Truth317]

If a woman likes you, she likes you. It doesn't matter how thick the sole of your shoes are, or whether or not you wear optic super-sonic glasses that see into outer space. If she's likes you enough, it's a done deal.

[Truth317]

Well explain why there are ugly men with pretty woman???

 

No such thing. Cause what's ugly to me may not be ugly to you and vice versa.

[yankeefan74]

What never gets talked about is that there are plenty of men, who because of television, movies, etc, think they're supposed to be with a super model...or at least someone that I suppose a large majority of people would consider a very physically attractive woman.

 

Because they don't get attention from these types of women, they think that they can't date at all. They start telling themselves that women simply don't like them...and that women "only go for looks."

 

I'm not a big fan of telling people to date within their "league" or whatever you want to call it, but at some point, if you're 35, and 50 pounds overweight...you can't really whine that the 23 year old hottie that works behind the counter at the 7-11 where you always stop for gas isn't "giving you a chance."

 

Almost any man can find a woman that would love to spend time with him, get to know him, and possibly be in a relationship with him. But there are too many guys who believe that every man either marries (insert name of your favorite gorgeous woman here), or they're alone. I have met a ton of women over the years who actually appear to me to be far more physically attractive than at first glance simply because they're fun to talk too, they're fun to be around. I guarantee you that there are a lot of women on her who will tell you they were not attracted to their SO at first, but got to know that person, and the attraction grew.

 

Also...most of the pickup techniques you'll find described generally do work if done correctly, and with the right type of woman. In most cases, she's gotta be incredibly insecure for a man to successfully maneuver her into bed by putting her down.

 

There are plenty of guys who have perfected the art of going into bars and picking up girls. Some can do this naturally, others learned from various sources. If that's what you want to do...if that's the type of thing you're looking for, you're going to find a lot of insecure people. Sure, sometimes you just want to go out and have fun - and meeting a "play mate" for the evening can fall into that category.

 

But I see tons of posts from guys who claim no woman will give them a chance. Well, are you giving any woman that DOESN'T look like Eva Longoria a chance? Are you even giving them a second glance?

 

There's a difference between being playful, and being a jerk. Men that tease women are often more successful because they're just having fun, they're being confident, and having a good time. They're not trying to impress anyone.

 

I think there's a huge problem in that a lot of guys want to judge women by how they look - but don't want to be judged on their own looks. I see it all the time.

[Truth317]

And everybody is so concerned about being put on HER "friend's list." Sometimes a woman putting you on her "friend-zone" list is the greatest thing that can ever happen to you. Trust me.

[Dating Coach]

And everybody is so concerned about being put on HER "friend's list." Sometimes a woman putting you on her "friend-zone" list is the greatest thing that can ever happen to you. Trust me.

 

I don't trust random people on the internet, I need to hear their logic. Explain.

[Timebandit]

I think there's a huge problem in that a lot of guys want to judge women by how they look - but don't want to be judged on their own looks. I see it all the time.

 

I totally agree with you. It seems like 50% of the guys goes for the 10% most beatiful women.

 

 

And I think a huge part of the problem is ego gratification. Many men seem to have the implicit assumption, that being with a hot babe somehow proves their masculinity. Of course all men would prefer a gorgeous woman. But men put to much pressure on themselves and each other to find the gorgeous woman, rather than the woman they could have a great connection with.

 

If men were more inner-directed (or inner-validated) looks would mean less (no - I am not saying that looks don't matter).

[Nutz]

I totally agree with you. It seems like 50% of the guys goes for the 10% most beatiful women.

 

 

And I think a huge part of the problem is ego gratification. Many men seem to have the implicit assumption, that being with a hot babe somehow proves their masculinity. Of course all men would prefer a gorgeous woman. But men put to much pressure on themselves and each other to find the gorgeous woman, rather than the woman they could have a great connection with.

 

If men were more inner-directed (or inner-validated) looks would mean less (no - I am not saying that looks don't matter).

 

Why not screen for both? If you want women with a certain level of attractiveness, then so be it. I agree though that just going for looks is dumb. IMO I go for looks first and they have to have a good personality to keep me. That is to say IF I want a relationship. My point though is that you can have your cake and eat it too.

[yankeefan74]

You're missing the point. Nobody's saying that looks don't matter, or that you can't find someone you find physically attractive that also has an attractive personality.

 

What's being discussed here is that if you're going to make a woman's appearance as important as a lot of guys make it, then you have no right to complain when women do the same thing.

[yankeefan74]

I totally agree with you. It seems like 50% of the guys goes for the 10% most beatiful women.

 

 

And I think a huge part of the problem is ego gratification. Many men seem to have the implicit assumption, that being with a hot babe somehow proves their masculinity. Of course all men would prefer a gorgeous woman. But men put to much pressure on themselves and each other to find the gorgeous woman, rather than the woman they could have a great connection with.

 

If men were more inner-directed (or inner-validated) looks would mean less (no - I am not saying that looks don't matter).

 

 

Great post. I think you hit the nail on the head here.

 

I know guys who will go after only the "hottest" women they happen to see - because they think it will make THEM look better to their friends. Of course, if they manage to reel one of these women in, and bring her around their friends...they wind up turning into jealous, possessive maniacs that get dumped anyway. lol