Get Help!

[girl friend]

Hi guys

 

I've just read countless threads under this forum about individuals feeling suicidal. Listen to me guys, the very fact that you are posting about it shows that you do not really want to die. You want to find a 'cure'. You want things to be fixed, to be different situationally. And you have all taken the first step, that is something very positive.

 

But to me it sounds like you'd like to be out of that bottomless pit - how can we do that for ya?

 

How about making an appointment with a therapist, just to talk things over, get an alternative perspective on things?

 

How about making some plans for the future, what things used to give you inspiration? Try to find some enjoyment in things you used to love, old friends, certain books and films? spending time with animals?

 

Can you identify exactly what it is in your life that you hate? Your job? your age? your family? your self? These can all be worked through.

 

Its worth trying to get this fixed you know. If you are suffering from depression, it IS a very serious illness, and It is Not your fault. It could be as simple as a hormone imbalance in the frontal cortex of the brain affecting your mood, and a quick course of medication, like antibiotics can lift that glaze for you! It might be that you need to talk and work through the issues that triggered this depression for you, in therapy! Thats not so bad. Just seeking an alternative perspective, i have huge respect for anyone who seeks therapy. There is no need to feel this bad every day, apart from anything else its not healthy! You don't have to put up with feeling so miserable. Get that help, get that other perspective, get this fixed. And then move on. You can do it. Write down some life goals, establish a routine in your life, and get back some control. And smile a little everyday.

 

You can all do this.

I believe in you.

 

REply and let us know how you're doing.

 

girl friend xxx

[DN]

Listen to me guys, the very fact that you are posting about it shows that you do not really want to die.

As much as I wish this were always true, and much of the time it is, it isn't always. Many members of ENA will remember MewSkitty, Christopher Allen Brackner, who was a young man who posted here and took his own life last year. There was another similar story from a year before that.

 

The advice in the above post is good advice - but members should be aware that sometimes when people say they are going to kill themselves, they really do mean it.

[amipushy]

Although I understand what you are trying to do here girl friend and it is very sweet to try to offer help and support to those who are depressed, I'm afraid you really have no idea what you're dealing with.

 

What you are doing in fact is just giving a bit of inspiration to some people who are demotivated and a bit "down" but not to those people who suffer from clinical depression.

 

Because those people- How they long for it to be that easy when they have once again have found themselves on the bathroom floor, curled up and screaming silently from the terrifying, intense and neverending suffering inside them from which they can find no escape, how they long not to wish for death to give them sweet relief, how they long to be free.

 

Be very careful because you cannot help those you do not understand.

[girl friend]

members should be aware that sometimes when people say they are going to kill themselves, they really do mean it.

 

Yeah thats true, i miss MewSkitty.

 

And DN is right that it should be taken with the utmost importance when someone says they are going to commit suicide or they feel suicidal. All i'm saying is that it is possible to come out the other end ok, and that clinicial depression is an illness that people need help for.

 

I want people to know that they can learn to see ways out of that deep black pitt, they can hope again, they can look forward to the future again, they can feel again, and care, and be happy.and if things are so desperate that there is nothing to lose, why not get a therapists perspective?

[girl friend]

you really have no idea what you're dealing with.

 

Be very careful because you cannot help those you do not understand.

 

Don't I?

Cant you?

 

I know what clinical depression is lol

Why is it that people are so quick to rip each other apart?? even on here. Everything you do is challenged and criticised. Mankind is broken.

 

What you are doing in fact is just giving a bit of inspiration to some people who are demotivated and a bit "down" but not to those people who suffer from clinical depression.

 

Isn't this how major depression starts? demotivation? lack of control, esculating feelings...

 

Because those people- How they long for it to be that easy when they have once again have found themselves on the bathroom floor, curled up and screaming silently from the terrifying, intense and neverending suffering inside them from which they can find no escape, how they long not to wish for death to give them sweet relief, how they long to be free.

 

Beautifully written here, i like the understanding and pain that you portrayed., good empathy also

 

 

girl friend

[Daddy Bear]

The root cause of contemplating suicide isn't life itself, but suffering. In posting their stories here, people are searching desperately for an alternative to ending it all. It's tragic that some, like our sorely missed young friend Chris, move to bring their lives to an unnatural close when they fail to see the light at the end of the lonely tunnel that shines for virtually every one of us. He, along with my teen nephew and so many others who've passed away far too young, could have gone on to live decent, relatively happy lives if they'd just been able to believe that it really would be so.

[Daddy Bear]

Be very careful because you cannot help those you do not understand.

 

You speak in absolutes here; I see it somewhat differently. No one person has ever been inside the head of another - and yet, through professional help, through friends and family and lovers, through all sorts of channels, relief does come for millions in their darkest hours. Surely you wouldn't deny that.

[amipushy]

I wrote that because I was seriously concerned about it and the lightness of it, not because I wanted to rip you or it apart. By the time you get to clinical depression no amount of lets have a chat about what you hate about yourself and your life or spend soem time with animals will even begin to touch the blackness of your moods and the negative thoughts that come with it. By writing that you could find yourself on the end of such a seriously depressed person that you could find yourself out of your depth and that concerned me alot.

 

Good empathy? I think not.

 

Daddy Bear, maybe I did talk in absolutes and yes you are right, it's not life itself but it's the suffering that is the killer. And I may not have been in the head of another but I have certanly have been close and felt that intense suffering and relief does not always come on the darkest hour, it certainly didnt for me which is also why I spoke out about my own understanding.

[girl friend]

By the time you get to clinical depression no amount of lets have a chat about what you hate about yourself and your life or spend soem time with animals will even begin to touch the blackness of your moods and the negative thoughts that come with it. By writing that you could find yourself on the end of such a seriously depressed person that you could find yourself out of your depth and that concerned me alot.

 

I know that when someone is at those depths, comments such as 'go spend some time with animals' can fix everything. I also know that if someone is at those levels, they want out. Maybe not death, but they want the current chapter to end, and they see no way out. They may KNOW that they have things to live for, a family, want to see kids grow up, etc etc, but they can't FEEL it. So in that sense, yes of course a warm fuzzy enotalone thread cannot fix things. But we all know what a bad idea it is to base a major life decision on feelings alone. Hence why i urged people to seek help, to seek another perspective. As for talking, of course it helps! A chat with an unexperienced friend may mean the world, or it may do nothing other than upset both. But a talk with an experienced clinical therapist CAN help the person to start turning their life around. Its hope that i was aiming to bring with this thread, not absolutes.

 

girl friend

[girl friend]

 

Good empathy? I think not.

 

I didn't know you were talking about yourself.

But Geez, learn to take a compliment hun!

 

And if you were talking about yourself, Thats incredible! You were there and you got out? What better way could there be to spread hope than someone like you speaking out like that! x

[Daddy Bear]

relief does not always come on the darkest hour

 

No, not always - but often enough the clouds lift--well over 90% of the time by U.S. statistics--to make hanging on worthwhile. And for the other 30,000 who die by their own hand annually here, most probably would have seen their lives stabilize over time.

 

What do you mean when you say that relief didn't come for you? Are you suicidal now? I didn't pick that up from a read of your post history.

[amipushy]

 

What do you mean when you say that relief didn't come for you? Are you suicidal now? I didn't pick that up from a read of your post history.

 

Smiles, no I'm not. But it's people like me your talking to when posting stuff like that and I could take particular offense at the lightness of such a post in light of the hard, hard long years I stuggled by myself to get out of such a hell. Or even worse, I could have clung to the OP and dragged her down into the depths of that hell, a hell she knows not of and drown her with me. Surely you can see that?

[Raiden]

Write down some life goals

 

It may be just me, but during my darker hours the last thing I wanted to do was think about my long-term future. Positive thinking in terms of short-term goals is great, inadvertent stress caused by mulling over what will become a decade or more down the road is another. Depression is an unpredictable, nonlinear beast.

[Daddy Bear]

Smiles, no I'm not.

 

Okay, so you DID recover, which is awesome. Maybe THAT should be your message to people who feel trapped in the same darkness that you escaped because you didn't give up and rob yourself of the opportunity to heal.

 

it's people like me your talking to when posting stuff like that

 

No, it really isn't. You're safe. You're living proof of my point that a normal life can follow even the bleakest of emotional states. This thread, and my posts in it, are aimed at people in danger right now.

 

I could take particular offense at the lightness of such a post in light of the hard, hard long years I stuggled by myself to get out of such a hell.

 

I see no "lightness" in any of my nearly three hundred posts in the Suicide Forum. It's a subject that has hit me personally in many ways and on numerous occasions. I find it deadly serious and I'm mystified that anyone could look at my words and think otherwise.

 

Or even worse, I could have clung to the OP and dragged her down into the depths of that hell, a hell she knows not of and drown her with me. Surely you can see that?

 

For the life of me, I can't see why you would - for saying that depression is a serious disease and not the sufferers' fault? For saying that she believes in them? While it's understandable that you would be angry after living through years of depression without finding help, you need to realize that that's exactly what people like girl friend are trying to prevent for someone else. I'm sorry that you feel the need to criticize instead of lending your own weight to that effort.

[girl friend]

it's people like me your talking to

 

Well if you're not in those places then its not directed at you is it.

 

I could take particular offense at the lightness of such a post

 

It wasn't light! We're posting under Suicide for goodness sake. I know what death is. I was just trying to help. People come on here grasping at straws, looking for a reason to stay, desperately searching for belief that this isn't happening. I want them to know that they are not alone. You got through didn't u?

 

Or even worse, I could have clung to the OP and dragged her down into the depths of that hell, a hell she knows not of and drown her with me. Surely you can see that?

 

Well i think that is a very ignorent statement. What makes you think a person you've never met, know nothing about, could become suicidal just from talking to someone online who may be suicidal. Of course that depends on how the situation is addressed of course, and for that matter i took the liberty of designing some little role plays for your benefit, below:

This shows how when dealing with a depressive/suicidal depressive a friend may get dragged down with them, and how to avoid that.

 

 

Hypothetical Scenario One

 

Imagine you have a depressed person (Person 1), talking to a non-depressed friend (Friend A). Person 1 decides that in an attempt to help depressed Friend A, he will reflect Friend A’s mood.

 

So the conversation starts something like this:

 

Friend A: “So, how are you feeling today?”

Person 1: “Oh, erm, right, well, I’m not so good I guess, I feel really down.” (In a very low depressed tone of voice.)

 

Friend A: “Oh, do you want to talk about it?”

(In a quiet low tone.)

 

Person 1: “Not really, I just hate life. There’s nothing good in life and I want to die.

Friend A: “There’s nothing good in life?”

(Good use of an echoed question, but Friend A has also lowered his tone to depressed mood, making it sound more like a factual statement than a question.)

 

Person 1: “No.”

Friend A: “Hmmm”

(An awkward depressed silence.)

 

Person 1: “What’s the point living anyway? Nothing ever changes.”

Friend A: “Uh huh.”

(Good use of non-committal noises, but used inappropriately. The mood is dampened practically beyond repair in the room now.)

(A depressed silence follows.)

 

So here Friend A is trying to help Person 1 by completely empathising. He feels that he should try to understand how Person 1 is feeling, but in doing that has lowered the mood even further. Now they are both feeling low in silence. Friend A is feeling helpless that he hasn’t been able to help Person 1, who he suspects is much further gone to depression than he had ever guessed. Person 1 is feeling miserable because he had secretly been hoping to be cheered up. To be told that perhaps it isn’t as bad as it sounds.

 

Here Friend A is using empathy, but inappropriately. To put yourself in the mood or zone of a depressive whilst talking with them, can only be disastrous. The type of empathy we can use in situations with depressed friends is called ‘Surface Empathy.’ That is, mild empathy. We are not echoing their mood. For that as we have seen in the above example would be disastrous. You would systematically both get each other more and more down. This would be further disastrous if the conversation took place between two self-injurers, between two depressives, or between two potential suicidals.

 

Now let us try another hypothetical situation, but where Friend B uses Surface Empathy in contrast to complete empathy.

 

Hypothetical Scenario Two

 

Friend B: “So, how are you feeling today?”

Person 1: “Oh, erm, right, well, I’m not so good I guess, I feel really down.” (In a very low depressed tone of voice.)

 

Friend B: “Oh, do you want to talk about it then?”

(In his usual tone.)

 

Person 1: “Not really, I just hate life. There’s nothing good in life and I want to die.

Friend B: “Right. That’s a rather steep statement. I can think of lots that’s good about life.”

(In a cheerful enthusiastic tone.)

 

Person 1: “Oh yeh? Like what?”

Friend B: “Well we’ll get our exam results soon. I’m very interested to see how the scores turned out.”

 

Person 1: “Oh well, that’s just great. I bet I’ve failed everything. Something else to look forward to, thanks.”

 

Friend B: “Well I’m just looking forward to knowing either way. Nothing we can do about the past, but we can do something about the present. When we know the results, it will open a window of choice. Failing exams is not the end of the world remember.

 

Person 1: “I guess. What else are you looking forward to?”

 

Friend B: “Well I’m seeing my girlfriend this weekend, I’m excited about that.”

 

Person 1: “I don’t have a girlfriend. Who’d want me anyway?”

 

(Here undoubtedly Person 1 is being very difficult, unintentionally of course. But his depression is causing him to see the world through a blackish tint, and the question is, how will Friend B react to this.)

 

Friend B: “Lots of people I reckon. Looking forward in life doesn’t have to rely on other people anyway. Think about the things you dreamed of as a little kid. The dream job, having beautiful children, things that may or may not happen, a long way in the future. Look forward to your dreams.”

(Here Friend B is not letting Person 1’s depression lower his mood. His enthusiasm and love of life is hard to resist.)

 

Person 1: “With this kind of illness its hard to look forward to anything though. Logically I know you’re right. But it doesn’t feel like that. Nothing ever changes.”

 

Friend B: “So then you’ve got something to look forward to haven’t you? You can look forward to getting better.”

 

(A thoughtful silence follows.)

 

Here Friend B has held his own, refusing to be brought down, and in doing so has shown Friend B that the depression does not have to control his life forever.

 

Note the excellent use of ‘reflection’ here. He acknowledged everything that Person 1 said, but turned it completely around to show the positive. This is something which depressives for the most part are unable to do. This kind of illness eats away at the mind, causing everything to look black. It can dim the usual excitement and interest which would be provoked by the happy person before depression has set in, making everything seem dull and worthless. It can eliminate anything which the person prior loved, leaving them with nothing but their depression and lack of desire to do anything. Friend B gave person 1 things to look forward to.

 

Our aim is to teach them to trick the depression. A good technique in any listening or counselling situation is reflection. That is, repeating back something the other person said, as a question. As we saw in Hypothetical Scenario One, Friend A mis-used reflection in a disastrous way. With depressives it is best to use very selective reflection. That is, only reflect back the good or the positive statements. This could turn the conversation completely around.

 

Please also note that the way in which both of these conversations started with the Friend saying: “So, how are you feeling today?” is a Deconstructive question, and should be avoided when talking with a known depressive. The answer will always be the same, and will get the depressed person more down if they repeat it out loud. In situations like this we need Constructive questions. The ‘HOW’ questions, i.e. problem-solving questions. “So how are you going to solve this?” “How did you beat these feelings in the past?” “What would the first step be?”

 

Now in Hypothetical Scenario Two, Person 1 ends the conversation marginally and momentarily cheered up. He is happy with the alternative perspective which Friend B has shown him, but only briefly. He has not been cured. Rather this conversation has been won. One tiny battle in the major war zone. For these conversations to continuously occur would leave Friend B mentally exhausted as well as perhaps feeling down himself. Often working with a depressive can be frustrating beyond belief. Moreover, even people with the greatest strength of mind will find themselves affected by some of what a depressive says.

 

It may be just me, but during my darker hours the last thing I wanted to do was think about my long-term future. Positive thinking in terms of short-term goals is great, inadvertent stress caused by mulling over what will become a decade or more down the road is another. Depression is an unpredictable, nonlinear beast.

 

Yes your absolutely right Raiden, i should have mentioned that. When talking to a depressive and trying to get some future into it, the best thing to work with is short-term goals. Particularly if you are dealing with a suicidal phone call at stupid.0.Clock. Plan to meet them at some point the following day. Make them an appointment! Even if you don't do appointments! A goal in the immediate future can give you space to work with.

[girl friend]

Daddy Bear thank you for all your support and understanding what i was trying to do on this thread.

 

I see no "lightness" in any of my nearly three hundred posts in the Suicide Forum. It's a subject that has hit me personally in many ways and on numerous occasions. I find it deadly serious and I'm mystified that anyone could look at my words and think otherwise.

 

I think its me the attack was on babes.

 

I'm sorry that you feel the need to criticize instead of lending your own weight to that effort.

 

 

Yeah amipushy, i hope you get help... I don't mean that to sound as patronizing as it does.. It just sounds to me like you have a lot of unresolved anger in the area..

 

g/f

[Daddy Bear]

It may be just me, but during my darker hours the last thing I wanted to do was think about my long-term future. Positive thinking in terms of short-term goals is great, inadvertent stress caused by mulling over what will become a decade or more down the road is another. Depression is an unpredictable, nonlinear beast.

 

LOL I've never wanted to draw up a ten-year plan in my BEST moments. Horrors!

[DN]

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