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Confidence ruined!! - LONG POST


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Hi, everybody. I posted briefly once before in the aftermath of my break-up, but lately I've been plagued with terrible self-doubt, so I thought it might do me some good to just write the whole long story and see what people think about it. Again, please forgive me for the length...it just feels good to get it all out.


Anyways, I'm 25 years old, university educated, multilingual, established in a well-paying job in television broadcasting but still ambitious for more. She was 22 years old, an excellent undergrad student entering her first year of naturopathic med school. We met online via a dating website. Having exchanged increasingly long e-mails over the course of a couple of weeks, we noticed that we had quite a lot in common - background, religion, sense of humour, interests, etc. - and a spark seemed to develop, at least in the online sense. So, one night, having returned from the gym, she IM'd me asking if I felt like being spontaneous. I was pleasantly surprised at her forwardness, since I had been planning to ask her out the next week myself, so we met that night at a local arcade. It turned out to be one of the best dates I had ever been on. There was instant chemistry between us, and we ended up strolling in the parking lot until 3:00AM talking. She was quite honest with me about herself and told me that she had a few issues with self-esteem and did not get on particularly well with her parents. No big deal, I thought, we all have our quirks. I used to be a cigarette smoker and I didn't always get along with my parents when I was younger either, so it's not like we're all perfect in this world. Then she launched into a bit of a monologue about her ex-boyfriend, with whom she had recently broken up because she realized she didn't really love him, at the same time admitting that the only reason she was on a dating site was to make her feel a bit better about herself in the aftermath and that she didn't expect to have come accross someone she liked so quickly. THAT set off alarm bells in my head because it seemed to be classic rebound behaviour, but she assured me that no, no, he was in the past and I shouldn't think that. So, we parted that night on good terms with plans to get together in the next week or two.


The next morning, I awoke to an e-mail from her saying that she had such a great time and that she had just had a feeling from our online chats that I would be a great guy. I was touched by that, to be honest, and we continued as we had before, chatting online and going out about once a week for a couple of months. She was very affectionate and was gushing to all her friends about me. Admittedly, I was smitten with her too and I saw a lot of things I admired, such as her dedication to school, her honesty and her love of simple pleasures. She told me I had all the qualities she was looking for, in that I was a confident, successful, slightly older guy who knew how to cut loose without going overboard and still maintained a strong sense of values. Or as she put it, I was different, yet similar to her ex in all the right ways. I was confident, he was not. I was ambitious, he was not. I worked out and dressed well, he did not. And so on, and so on. Again, she kept bringing up her ex, and each time it would set off alarm bells in my head. She seemed too preoccupied with what he thought about her, even though she had been the one to dump him. He had attempted to woo her back a couple of times before giving up, which she would complain to me about, yet she would e-mail him to see how he was doing and couldn't stand that he eventually didn't want to be part of her life anymore. Such was her concern that whenever I sent her a message on her Facebook page, she would erase it just in case he visited her page and saw it. She continued to do so until he deleted her off his friends list altogether. She also had a habit of keeping male friends in whom she proclaimed she had no interest, but yet she would continuously send them mixed signals instead of calling it straight, even agreeing to go with one to a drama festival although she said, "I'd much rather be going with you."


So, confronted with all this evidence of unresolved baggage, why did I go forward, you ask? I'm not a dope, I could see there were problems there. But as often happens in matters of the heart, I was wearing rose-coloured goggles. I asked about all of the things she mentioned, and she always repeated that they didn't mean anything. She was just tying up loose ends, getting closure. This culminated in a marathon late-night conversation in which she came over to my house at 1:00AM and stayed until 5:00AM, pouring her guts out. I didn't want to put pressure on her or force a relationship, so I told her to simply do what felt right for her, that I didn't ever want her to feel uncomfortable around me. She told me that although at first she felt a little bad because maybe other guys she talked to online might have turned out to be good guys too and that maybe she might even have needed to be single, but it was now clear to her that I was special and she didn't want to let the oppotunity to be with me pass her by. I had been skeptical, but she won me over. And so after two months of frequent chatting and casual dating, we became a couple.


For the next couple of months, it was like we were living in a dream. We wined, we dined, watched movies, had fun, did all the great things couples do. She ended up losing her driving privileges for being sloppy on the road, so I had to do all the driving, but that didn't matter for me, such did I enjoy her company. She had an off-day from school and I took a day off work so we could go on a mini road trip accross the border, and we had a great time. She worked part-time in a mall and one day, when I happened to take my mother shopping for her birthday, she insisted I bring her there so they could meet. I took that as a good sign, wanting to meet my family, so I did. When it came to her family though, the situation was odd. She raved about how much her parents would like me better than her ex, how eager she was for them to meet me, but she refused to even tell them she was seeing me, saying that she wanted to wait so they would take this relationship seriously. I found that to be flimsy reasoning more suited to protecting herself than anything else, but I went along. After all, it wasn't my place to force that kind of thing, she would do it when she was ready.


Let it be said that I'm a cautious and respectful guy in relationships. I don't like to rush, I don't like to make anyone uncomfortable, and I don't like to impose, especially physically, at the risk of seeming dishonourable. She ended up taking the initiative, both physically and non-physically, making the first moves and telling me I had nothing to worry about, that she didn't want me to protect my emotions the way I did with other women in the past. And so, I opened my heart to her and let her inside. We went out for dinner one night and the topic of marriages came up. Poison early on in the relationship, I know! I said it wasn't in the cards for me right now, given that I'm still young, but the future could be different. And then she wowed me out of nowhere by saying that maybe insteading of waiting for me to propose, she'd just do it herself. There was an equal sense of give and take between us, it felt like we had a real connection. In short, it felt wonderful.


Then, things started to slowly go awry. She visited me at work once one night before we went out to dinner, saw me in a suit and said she didn't like seeing me at work, seeing me serious. She never wanted to see me like that around her, she said. She started to come to my house more often and got to know my family a little bit, but still refused to tell her family about me. Whenever I drove her home and her parents' cars were in the driveway, I had to park down the block and drop her off so they wouldn't see me. I grew tired of that quickly, but again, I didn't want to put pressure on her; she said she'd tell them when she was ready. She'd say she didn't want them to think she was using me for rides...they had thought that about her ex-boyfriend. Also, her best friend was a bitter single-type, so whenever she called and I was present, we had to pretend I wasn't there so this particular person wouldn't feel bitter about the fact that she was spending time with me instead of with her. Again, childish, but it was her best friend, so I felt bad about taking a stand on this one. When we talked about our past relationships, she'd wonder what I saw in a girl like her. I've dated girls who, in my opinion, were attractive both mentally and physically, and she was just as beautiful as any of them, even more so, and I told her that. She'd say that she was unattractive, immature, * * * * * y, selfish and that I probably thought she was weird because of her issues. What did a "man" like me see in a "girl" like her? I told her nothing could be further from the truth and that I liked her just fine the way she was, that nobody was perfect. She began binging on chocolate and junk food to cope, as she put it, with the stress of the chaos in her life. School stressed her out, her family stressed her out, someone looking at her funny at work stressed her out. She would complain to me constantly about these things. She was a a great student, but obsessed that she would do badly. She was gorgeous, but she believed she was overweight and ugly. If her mother or father phoned her, she would yell at her and be rude for no reason, even with me sitting right there. Apparently, they "insulted" her when she was growing up, although, to be honest, the things she was telling me didn't sound much different from anything a typical parent might say when they're annoyed. She lamented that she always lost all the important people in her life, friends, boyfriends, etc. I tried my best to be supportive and to give her whatever she needed, and she was always grateful, said she was so lucky to be with someone like me. We rarely talked about me or my life, but I felt it was okay at the time because I was in a really good place and generally content with my lot, so I was happy to be supportive when she needed me.


I wanted her to come over on Christmas Eve, if not for dinner, then just for a little coffee with my family and friends. She was all for it until the day before, when she said she mistakenly got scheduled to work on Christmas Eve and that her mom would be picking her up right after. I asked her why she just didn't tell her about us, but she was in such a depressed mood, she said she'd prefer it if I didn't see her at all in that state. Defeated, I let it go. Not wanting to disturb her family holiday, I texted her a Merry Christmas, and she said she'd call on Boxing Day, which she did not. The next day on MSN, I asked her what was going on? She said she knew I was offended but I had to understand that even though she really wanted to come over, it was out of her control. She had to work that day, and she didn't want to tell her parents about us over the holidays because she didn't want them asking her all sorts of questions or bring up the ex. As for not calling, she said she couldn't because her family was always around and she didn't want them to hear her in case they asked who she was talking to. Now, I knew this was nonsense because she had called me from their house before on her own initiative, often to talk for hours, but she had been in such a depressed mood over the holidays, I didn't want to create any conflict and call her out.


We made plans for New Year's and she told me to book a hotel, which I did, but then on New Year's Day, she frantically told me to cancel because she was worried her parents would come to her house in the morning and find that she wasn't there. It cost me money, but how could I refuse? Anyways, we went out for New Year's for dinner and dancing, had a fantastic time, and at the end of the night she told me she was living in a dream and that I was everything she wanted. She brought me back to her place and we spent the night together....but there was no sex. At the beginning of the night, she made it quite clear that that's what she had in mind, but when I came out of the shower, she said she had just, at that moment, had her period. Again, I'm not one to impose and it didn't matter to me whether we had sex that night or not, but it just didn't seem right. If she didn't want to, why not just say so? I would have understood, I always made it clear that her being comfortable was always what mattered most to me. And why cancel the hotel, yet bring me back to the house? If her parents were to come in the morning, wouldn't seeing me there have the same effect, if not worse, than seeing that she stayed out all night? In fact, her dad DID come the next morning! I heard him pull into the driveway, and she shooed me under her bed with all of my things, where I waited for 4 hours until they left so I could leave too. She was terribly rude to him while he was there too, and at this point I started to think, what the hell am I doing?


Her next term at school was starting soon and she was pretty distraught about it, so I decided to take her out and try to get her mind off it for a while. She came to my house one night and even though I had to work the next morning, when I got ready to take her home, she pouted and asked why I was trying to get rid of her. So, I relented, she stayed until midnight. Then, as I was getting my keys, my dad told her that we need to be a little more responsible, since I had to get up early. It was like she was hit in the face with a bucket of cold water. In the car, she was icy and all she would say is that she was stupid, she was irresponsible, that she could never do anything right. I reassured her that everything was fine, that it was my fault, that I could have forced her to go home if I didnt' really want her there, but she just kept going on and on. Finally, I just said, "Enough!" I dropped her off and asked her if she was okay. She told me she was, but she didn't kiss me goodnight. I felt terrible for raising my voice, so I e-mailed her when I got home apologizing for it. She responded saying that it was okay, that sometimes she needed that, as long as I didn't do it often, but that she took enough flak from her parents when she was at home, so she didn't need to take it from my dad too. She hoped I wasn't a man like him. Now, my dad is a terminally ill man, a very good father and, quite frankly, he said nothing offensive at all, just to be more responsible. The fact that she, a future health care professional, would attack him for that was preposterous and outright offensive. But again, I could sense she was on the edge, so I just let it slide. That weekend, we went out and we couldn't keep our hands off each other....but she refused to come back to my house, saying that she knew she wouldn't want to leave if she did. I knew the real reason was because she didn't want to see my dad and I asked her about it, but she said that wasn't the case at all. The last night before she started school, she was so worried about it, I decided to give her a little gift, my fountain pen that I used while I was at university for good luck. When I reached into my pocket, she thought I was going to pull out an engagement ring! She said that if I had proposed, she didn't think she could say no to me. Seeing that her parents didn't even know I existed and that we had only been together a few months, I thought the notion was ridiculous, to say the least, but it made me feel good that she saw me in such a good light.


From that point on though, everything soured. She used to call me every day, but now she did not. She would send me a text message now and then to let me know she was thinking of me, but those stopped too. She began to criticize everything about me. I shave my head because I'm losing my hair and she said she didn't care about that at first, but then she suggested I look into a hair transplant. She said I looked too old and demanded I shave my moustache and goatee, which I did just for her, since I personally liked them myself. She said she felt inadequate standing next to me because I liked to dress well....did I have to dress so nicely all the time? Her school had a pub night at a bar that was owned by a friend of mine, and I introduced him to her and arranged for her to have free drinks all night. She commented that everyone was staring at me and I jokingly said, "Why wouldn't they? I'm fah-bulous!" She looked at me like I actually meant it! The next day, her school friends told her that I seemed like a cold, arrogant guy and that I look intimidating when I walk. Her friends had never even met me before and I was polite to everyone, so I was offended by this. I asked her why she didn't defend me, she knows what I'm really like, and she said, "Well, couldn't you just be a little less mature sometimes? I don't want them to have the same image of me that they have of you because I'm with you." That hurt. She would say "I love you" if I said it first, but she always said it was something she only said to her cat, not even to her parents. I asked her if she meant it and told her not to say it if she didn't. She dodged the question and just repeated that it wasn't something she said often, not even to her ex. Speaking of the ex, they had been in contact. Apparently, he had a textbook she wanted and she e-mailed him to get him to bring it back, which he did, but she didn't tell me until after the fact because she was afraid I'd make a big deal of it. I had never made a big deal about anything before, why did she feel the need to hide it from me?


She was working hard at school and made it clear she didn't have time to talk much on the phone, so I only called her every 2nd day and always gave her whatever time or space she needed to do what she needed to do. I'd joking say I wouldn't bother her when she needed to study, and she replied, "Don't tell me you're bothering me, or else I might start to believe it." She never called or texted me. She'd complain if we talked for more than 20 minutes, but if on occasion it was me who had to hang up and run, she'd fret that I was angry with her. If I talked to her about some stress I had at work, for example, she'd call me a careerist and said she'd be stressed too if she was me. No support or encouragement whatsoever. She said that I should play more hard to get to keep her interested, but if I did so for any length of time, she'd say to just be myself, that playing hard to get would backfire on me. I took her to her school's semi-formal, where she didn't introduce me to anyone and proceeded to get extremely drunk. I had to carry her through her door that night and when I told her I loved her, she told me, "Thank you." She also stopped kissing me at this point and would grumble if I ever asked her to or if I took her hand in mine.


On Valentine's Day, we went out, but you could cut the tension with a knife. She insulted me for choosing a wine with dinner that didn't go with meal, at least according to the wine card she had in her purse. I asked the waiter what he recommended when I ordered it, and I thought the wine was fine. No big deal. At the end of the night, I just threw all my cards on the table and asked if she wanted us to make a clean break. She got a horrified look on her face and said, no, no, that's the last thing she wanted. I asked if she was sure, that she wasn't just going to break my heart later on? She said no, no, she knew she was treating me badly. She blamed it on the stress in her life, said it was poisoning her relationships. She was still binging on junk food and complaining endlessly about her friends, school and family. She also said she was holding in her emotions because she had been too loose with them in the past and other guys hurt her. I said it wasn't fair to make me pay for the mistakes of other guys, and she agreed. We didn't spend that night together because she said she was tired, but we parted on good terms and I thought we turned the page.


The truth is, things never got back to normal. She called me the next night and said, "See? I'm calling you." That's the only time she called. When I'd call her (every 2nd day), she'd ask me how my day was, then launch into monologues about her problems and whine that she had to go, yet she wouldn't hang up. She still wouldn't tell her parents about me and when I flat out asked when she would, she angrily said she didn't ever want to tell them. I met her older brother one night, but only because he was out shovelling the snow and saw us pulling up to the house. She later admonished me for being too polite, getting out my car and shaking his hand, telling me that it wasn't a job interview and that I didn't have to do that. She complained about me opening her car door for her or doing gentlemanly things, but would get all worried if I stopped. For Valentine's Day, I gave her a small ring, just a little token of my affection. She loved it, but came back from school one day saying, "I wore it waiting for someone to compliment me, and someone told me, 'So, I guess he owns you now, hmm?" She just kept acting strangely. Aside from me driving her home on Fridays, we almost never went out on dates because she said she was too busy with schoolwork.


2 weeks passed and we didn't see each other at all, although I called as usual to see what she was up to. I'd always tell her when I'd call that way she'd expect it and I wouldn't be interrupting any important work she was doing, but sometimes she'd have her phone off, and she'd never call me back. I knew she turned it off sometimes when she wasn't in the mood to talk to people, but I began to wonder if it was a coincidence that she seemed to have it off frequently when expecting a call from me. We had tickets to a concert and it seemed she was excited about it. She sent me an e-mail apologizing for her behaviour, thanking me for being so supportive and saying that she was really looking forward to our night out. But when that night came, she chose not to have dinner with me, saying she'd rather study for an extra hour. I was offended, but I didn't want to stand in the way of her studying, so I didn't say anything about it. Then when I met her at the subway station, she was in a foul mood. I asked why she didn't seem happy to see me, and she said she was in a good mood, but she saw someone fall down the stairs and she had to provide first-aid, which freaked her out. I tried to reassure her, told her she saved the day and that they guy would be fine...which he was because they took him to a hospital just around the corner. She perked up once we got to the concert and was really enjoying it....she just didn't seem to be enjoying the fact that I was there too. I put my arm around her waist, and she grabbed it and brushed it off, telling me she felt fat and I'd never understand. If I held her hand, she'd just let go of it. On the ride home, I asked her why she was being so standoffish, especially since we hadn't been together in 2 weeks. She said it was stress. Then she took a cheap shot and suggested maybe she'd be less stressed if she didn't have to waste time talking to me on the phone. Seeing that we didn't talk often to begin with, I was really taken aback. I dropped her off and went to kiss her, but she just gave me the smallest of pecks. I just stared at her and after a few seconds, she looked at me with exasperation and shouted, "What do you want me to do!?" I said all right, don't worry about it. I'll call you Friday, okay? She smiled, said fine, and I went home.


I called her that Friday...and again, her phone was off. This was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I waited until after 11:00PM, when I knew her phone would be on because she uses the alarm on it to wake up, and I called her again. We had planned to do something the next day, but she never got back to me and I was upset that she left me hanging like that. She said she was going to call me later that night, which I didn't believe because she never called me at such a time. She said, "Fine, don't believe me." I didn't believe her and I demanded to know what was going on, why she was treating me so disrespectfully. Then it all came out: "You dress too nicely. You're too confident. Your posture is too straight. My ex was never like that. You're too ambitious. You're too polite. My parents will never take us seriously, they'll always think you're too good for me. You think too much about your career. You're too European. You drag everything out. You make a big deal out of everything." I always gave her carte blanche, I never lost my temper with her or made big deals about anything! I was stunned by all this! We argued a little bit, neither of us losing our temper or anything, and I thanked her at the end for listening to my concerns, at which point she blew up and said she had her phone off because she KNEW I'd be angry about the way she treated me at the concert. If she knew, why didn't she apologize? She had no answer for that. I asked her if she still wanted to get together the next day and she said she'd rather be alone. I knew the writing was on the wall.


The next Monday, she called me to tell me that....she had nothing to say. I was pushing her away, she said, smothering her, and maybe we should go our separate ways. Seeing that I never texted, never e-mailed and only called when I was sure it was okay with her, I couldn't see where this was coming from. I suspected that someone else was in the picture. But I have to admit, I still cared for her, so I asked her to take one more night to think about it. She said fine, she'd call me the next day when she got home from schol. My heart was a wreck and I didn't go in to work...but the call never came. I sat there like a fool, and it never came. Finally, around 11:00PM, I logged into MSN and there she was. She rarely came on since the new term started, so I found it odd that she was there this particular night. I got straight to the point and asked what was going on. She said she didn't know, that she felt the need to pull away, that her gut was telling her that she'd get hurt. She didn't listen to her gut in the past, so she knew she had to now. She complained that I overreact about everything, that there would be huge conflict in our relationship. I found this all to be nonsense, all I had done was be supportive of her in her own overreactions, but I read on. She said she refused to introduce me to her parents or come back to my house because she knew deep inside we weren't right for each other. I asked her if she was so concerned about losing people close to her, why was she so willing to discard me? That rule apparently didn't apply to me. She called me needy because I talked to her every 2nd day, because I wanted her to kiss me and not recoil in disgust if I held her hand. I said she didn't understand what being needy meant, and she replied she has her own definition of it. So, to sum it all up, I just asked her, "Do I matter to you?" She replied, "I don't know if you matter." That hurt more than a kick in the nads, so I got angry, I called her a bad name and accused her of having someone else. I'm not proud of it, but I had never ever been so offended. I said she disgraced my house and my family by insulting me and my father, a sick man. She said that now she was crying for real (making me feel bad apparently didn't make her cry before), and that she knew she had been right about me all along, that I was no good, that I had a terrible temper, that she was afraid I was going to come and hit her because I had the key to her house. HIT HER!? I've never hit anyone in my life! I was always the most gentle of gentlemen with her. That was just a low blow, plain and simple. She said she wanted her key back, I said I wanted my ring back and I wanted it back the next day. She said she was busy at school, she'd bring it when she was ready. Could she meet me at work or something? But I was through doing things her way. I needed the closure. I said under no uncertain terms that if she wanted that key, she would have to come to my house the next day and look at me in the face to get it. She called me out of my mind, but she relented and agreed to take a cab to pick it up.


The next day, she came timidly to the door and stepped inside. She asked if my dad was there, and I asked if she wanted to say something to him? She said she wouldn't know what to say, just to tell him she had a mental block, that's why she never came back over. I asked if she had something to say to me, she ran up to me and hugged me, crying, "I'm sorry I did this to you." I apologized for insulting her the night before as well. She said, "You really hurt me. There was never anyone else." I retorted that she's been hurting me for months and she said that that was true, but she never called me any names. Maybe not, but actions speak louder that words. My resolve was weak from seeing her and I told her I still loved her, that maybe we could work it out. She told me that it was me who didn't want to talk, not her. I told her, no, I wanted to talk and that I would keep her on my MSN. She left and later that night, she deleted me from her MSN and deleted all our pictures from her social networking page. Oddly enough, the photos of her ex remained there all the time we were together. They were even displayed around her house, along with gifts he had given her. She said she just hadn't had time to clean up. I never saw a picture of me there. I had our picture on my desk at work. I debated whether or not I should try to patch things up, but everyone I asked for advice said I would be a fool to do so, that she was a basket case, that I deserved better. And so it's remained, no contact, and I don't think I want to see her ever again. I have to confess that I'm a little hurt though because she always made such a big deal about her ex, how he didn't want to be part of her life even though she ended it, yet she really didn't care at all about me me or how I was feeling at the end. Why make a big deal about me not wanting to talk, then go and delete me from your MSN? Why can't people just be honest with themselves?


Anyways, that's my saga. Thanks to all of you who stuck it out to the bitter end! I'm sure that breaking up was the right thing to do. Although I blame her for a lot of what went wrong in this relationship, in the end, I blame myself more than anything else because all the warning signs were there at the beginning and I chose to ignore them. And now, I find myself struggling with my confidence because although I know I treated her like gold, part of me wants to believe the things she said about me, that I was no good, that I was clingy, that it was me who drove her away, etc. No part of this story has been doctored to make me look good or bad. This is exactly how it happened. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. At the very least, like I said at the beginning, it feels great just to write it out. Again, thank you all for reading!

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Only due to the sheer number of posts, I will admit that I won't have time to read your thread unfortunately. "LONG POST" is a nice disclaimer, but it also assures you of cutting your readership by 80% or more (Yes, that's a completely random, made up statistic with no factual relevance).


Best to limit your threads to 3 paragraphs at most. If you need to say more, you can always start a new thread at another time. ENA isn't going anywhere...

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I've the time to read the whole, and can I say that I agree with the people you asked who say you shouldn't patch this up. I know it hurts and that you cared but it really does seem that you were a (albeit elaborate and long) rebound from her ex. I think the fact she kept the pictures says it all. You are a throughly decent individual and I see alot of myself in the way you are. I hope beyong hope that there is someone for myself, and so do I for you, because you will make someone very happy one day.


best of luck for the future

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Welcome to ENA, sorry for your situation. I read the whole thing, well-written and objective with lots of pertinent detail. My conclusions are...


1. You ARE indeed too good for this woman. She is an immature trainwreck of a human being, you are a thoughtful, successful person in need of a more mature, rational, cultured woman. Despite egalitarian homilies to the contrary, some people are indeed plainly "better" than others, no one who has spent time on these forums could rationally disagree. IMO, this is such a case. if someone you are dating tells you that you are better than them, male of female... RUN! because there's a 90% chance they are right, and that they are a pretty bad seed to boot... crazies warn off their intended prey if we only listen.


2. It's likely that she is and has been in contact with her ex for quite some time, maybe the entirety of your relationiship. It's also likely that she was using you, a mature, well turned-out gentleman, to try to inspire jealousy in him. The times where you were on an up were likely times when she was totally on the outs with the ex, and the times you were on a down were times he was giving her hope or being at least more responsive. There's a good possibility, moreover, that the main reasons she didn't want you meeting her parents was that they knew she was still in contact with the ex, and wouldn't approve, and that she was afraid that once they met you, they would approve of you more than the ex.


3. You probably indulged her too much. She never had to work for your attention or affection, hence the comments about playing hard to get. You were too polite and available to her and not challenging enough. You were in a no-win situation either way, regardless of your level of availability, because she was using you all along, and was still attached to the ex. However, best wishes learning this in the future, young, immature women have very little appreciation for maturity in a man, seeking excitement and intrigue instead. Learn to recognize these, they stick out like sore thumbs when you know the signs.


4. Immature women turn nasty and hostile when they start to lose interest instead of cutting things clean and moving on. They are addicted to attention, and when they stop feeling the love, will see how far they can push things with bad treatment and drama. You hung around too long when you should have been giving final chances and moving on.


5. I believe that she was lying when she said her friends thought you standoffish, and what they said about the ring you gave her. She was lying to manipulate you, make you feel bad or insecure, thus easier to control. An immature woman will resort to lies like this when faced with a confident man she can't manipulate via other means.


6. There's a good chance this woman is personality disordered, no matter if she is really, just know that if she is, things with her would NEVER improve absent years of rigorous therapy. Good on you for getting shed.


Best wishes in your recovery; you dodged a bullet here. Many men end up married to these types with children and a house before the boom is thoroughly lowered. You got out relatively unscathed.


EDIT: "Naturopathic med school" is this a euphemism for some type of homeopathy? If so, this is kind of shady as well.

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Wow. I'm sorry for what you're going through. I have a male friend that is in a similar type of situation, and I find it so odd because he's a very mature, extemely attractive, intelligent guy, and the girl he chose (that acts very similar to your ex) is a straight up * * * * ... (am I allowed to say that word?) Anyway, after hearing his story and yours, and seeing the commonalities, I would say that she definitely took advantage of your kindness, and got used to treating you like crap but you letting it slide every time.


Also, in my current on-and-off again relationship, I hate to admit it, but I experienced the same thing. I have a "distant" relationship with my parents, a challening childhood, and a lot of self-doubt. And so when I would be * * * * * y towards my ex and he just let it slide and he was always the nice one who apologized, it gave me some sort of control (yes, this is insane). So I KNEW that if I ever did anything mean, he would let it slide and he would beg for me back, or try to work things out. This gave me the upper hand, so I continued to act like that. After 9 months of being treated like that, the tables turned abruptly, and he was no longer willing to put up with it... that's when I started begging for him back.


You seem like a very sweet guy, much like my male friend that I mentioned earlier in this post. And I believe she took advantage of that. She has no control of her job, friends, parents, etc. (which is why she constantly complains about it) but she feels like she has a bit of control over you. But once you take back the reigns and realize, "I am fine with our without this person", I guarantee she'll be at your door begging for you to come back.


I wouldn't suggest getting back with her though, only because she seems very stuck on her ex... I don't know many people that didn't take down their pictures of their EX once the relationship was over. It's just weird.


It's time to move on, and find someone more suited for you.

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Thanks for all the comments. It's good to read opinions from people who weren't around me to witness this all firsthand. I fully agree that I let her get away with too much, but she always seemed to be under so much stress that I couldn't make myself take a harder line. When she'd binge, I told her she wasn't just hurting herself, she was hurting me too. I used to be a cigarette smoker, I could see the parallels between binging and smoking. She'd do it anyways. It would usually be me smoothing things over after misunderstandings because so paranoid was she about her faults, I just wanted to get things back on track quickly and keep her from brooding, even though I was perfectly aware that I was being played. I mean, that one time I did get a bit upset, she made it seem like I was Mussolini or something. And at the end, when I tried to get the truth out of her, she'd always say she didn't know, could we talk later, if I cared I wouldn't put her under such pressure right now, etc. To that, I said I wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't important to me, and she'd sigh. Generally, I felt I needed to be a solid source of support, since any good boyfriend would be and since she lamented that no one cared about her. Oh, wait, the ex did, he was the only who always put up with her at her worst and came back for more. She did have a few friends, but she'd always complain about them too, how they wasted her time, prattled her ear off with their problems and only thought about themselves. That surely was the pot calling the kettle black! She went to Niagara Falls with her best friend one day and asked me to come and pick them up because I was going to be in the area that particular day, so I agreed, since they took the bus and I didn't want them to come back alone late at night. When we broke up, she threw that in my face as a example of me being clingy. I call it ingratitude.


I'm also aware of the "hard to get" phenomenon, that younger girls really aren't into maturity, but I said right from the beginning that that's not how I do things. She said she liked that, she wanted a "man," not a "boy." I wasn't going to start measuring my relationship activities with some sort of hypothetical gauge to see if I was "too available" or "too mysterious." The way I see it, if you care about someone, it's a straight exchange. It would be a perfect world if things actually worked that way, but that's how I do it. Leave the mind games to the high schoolers. If she needed me, if it was reasonable, she could count on me. And it seemed she needed me often. I wanted the same in return. She later pointed out that she hated my use of the phrase "I promise" because while I always kept my word, it reminded her that she often didn't, and not just with me.


Oddly enough, she loved getting compliments about herself from people who weren't me, but if I complimented her, she'd say she'd heard it all before from other guys. When she complain that she was unattractive, I'd say she was nothing but beautiful in my eyes, to which she'd always reply, "That doesn't help me." She wore a very revealing outfit to that last concert we went to and was thrilled that all her friends at school complimented her on it. I joked that maybe she wore it to tease me, since we hadn't seen each other in a while, to which she replied, "I didn't wear this for you. I wore it for me."


As for the ex, I knew he was a problem for us and I'd bring it up whenever she mentioned him, and she'd always say no, no, she didn't care, he was in the past. How did she get around not mentioning him around me? She'd frequently start to say something and suddenly stop herself so I'd ask what she was going to say. She'd say "No, no, it's not important." I'd say go on and she'd reply, "Well, it's just that he did this or he did that." The first time we kissed, she noted that my nose was smaller than his. When she'd kiss me, she's point out she never did it that way or liked it as much with him. I'd also like to point out that when we made out with each other, it was more like I made out with her, since she didn't do much more than lie there because she "liked the attention."


I don't have any intention on getting back together with her or even contacting her. No girl has ever treated me with such disrespect. Then again, I never dated anyone younger than me before either. Still, I don't think she's out there pining over losing me or preparing to beg for me to take her back simply because I don't really believe she loved me in the first place. It's been a while now and I've heard nothing. I wish she would try to come back though just so I could have some semblance of satisfaction. And it's childish, I know, but I hate to think that her friends will be consoling her, telling her that she's better off, that she can do better than me, that I should have been more understanding....especially those friends who had the nerve to ask me for favours while we were together, favours I always performed if I could. It's 2008, but I still have a very old school way of thinking of things like this. To me, honour is honour, a handshake is as good as a contract, you don't bite the hand that feeds you, and you don't forget those who help you.


I know one day I'll meet someone more suited to me, but at this point I'm just sad about the fact that even though I gave so much, all I got back was a bitter mouthful of disrespect. And although she's obviously troubled, I find injustice in the fact that because she's extremely attractive, she'll land another guy in a flash, while I, although I'm also a handsome, successful man (no arrogance intended), will find it somewhat more difficult simply because it's hard to meet people of a similar age with a similar mindset and, let's face it, it's not easy to be a single guy in general these days. I feel I deserved better. Even in the break-up, I feel I deserved more honesty and less vitriol; we could have ended it earlier without all the mess if she hadn't insisted on leading me on. Hehe, such is life, no?



PS - "Naturopathic medical school" is exactly what it sounds like...a load of bull. If a handful of garlic could cure cancer, people wouldn't be suffering through radiation and chemo now, would they?

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Oh, and if I come accross as pitying myself or overly bitter, I apologize to you all. I don't pity myself in the slightest. I am admittedly a little bitter, but the fact remains that all in all, this is largely my own fault because I simply should have known better. I ignored the obvious warning signs and allowed myself to get drawn in by smoke and mirrors. Such is the nature of relationships, I suppose. Like anything else, some will be good, others bad. The last words she told me were, and I quote, "You need a little failure in your life." Well, failure touches us all at one time or another, but only those of us who settle for it can be defined as such. I won't repeat these mistakes again, mark my words.

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We've all been there, and here is a good place to vent and learn from others. I whine like a spoiled baby here sometimes, and not even going through a breakup Don't be hard on yourself, the ego blow will heal up soon enough, and you will be a better man for it.

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