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What do you think she's trying to express to you? What do you think this crying is about and what, if you were to put it into words, would she be saying with her tears?

 

People cry like that when they're upset and afraid so I suppose I think she's unhappy and that she's trying to tell me that. That maybe things aren't better for her now and maybe she regrets it. I want to believe that she misses me and wants to come back. Of course, I know that won't happen. People don't come back. I know that.....If they could I wouldn't be in the mess I'm in now. What if she'd told me all that was in her note? I don't know. I guess I'd have tried to make her see that wasn't the case. That she was still the same to me. That we could get past it together and that it wouldn't break us up. But even if she had I don't know if I would have been able to make a difference. I'll never know. There are so many things I'd do or say differently if I could go back.

 

I hope your sleep improves soon.

 

I know you are very intelligent and know your stuff when it comes to health and wellness.... Sleep is ESSENTIAL to health.

 

The more I thought about what you mentioned regarding the crying, the more I'm wondering if there was a label that encompasses everything you have been experiencing: depression, anxiety, insomnia- I think this is "post-traumatic-stress disorder" in action. I'm not sure if "disorder" is a word I agree with- because what you have experienced was so painful, that I think just about ANYONE would have these symptoms later- so in my eyes it is a normal and expected reaction- however giving it a clinical term may make seeking effective help easier.

 

Hearing things in your sleep is a common symptom of post-traumatic stress. Just see this: link removed

 

What would you tell the woman who posted that ^ to do?

 

This is something that is going to be very hard to combat alone. You need to let some help in. I know it is going to be very hard for you to take the step to seek it- but you have to try. I really wish you would. Of course it won't take away the pain, but help you cope with these paralyzing symptoms that are taking over your mind and body. I have to say I am astonished at how well you have managed to cope, despite all of this: Working the hours that you do, helping others on the forum, etc- But we all need some sleep sooner or later- even the strongest of us.

 

I would hope you could get to a point (with help) where you could at least get some restorative sleep. Help won't make miracles- it won't take away what happened- but it can make a huge difference in your quality of life, if you give it a chance.

 

I know I need to sleep.....I really want to sleep but at the same time I'm now sort of scared of even trying to. I don't want to hear her crying anymore. I feel helpless.....there's nothing I can do. I can't save her or make things better now anymore than I could when she was here. I'm starting to really feel the effects...I can't concentrate very well anymore. It's taking me ages to type out this reply because I have to keep stopping to refocus. I keep drifting off into a half awake half asleep daze. I know I'm going to have to get some time off work before I end up making a mistake there. I have been getting bits of sleep.....random ten, twenty minutes here and there before I wake up again. Some nights I just can't get to sleep at all and feel wide awake. Other nights I can drift off, wake, drift off, wake and so on. I've had nightmares and I hear the crying and I just don't want that anymore. But I don't want pills.....for several reasons....one of which is that if I'm in a drug induced sleep and I start having a nightmare what if I can't wake up from it? I know that lack of sleep is probably making how I feel even worse....we all know it increases depression and negative thoughts. I don't know what else to try.

 

I don't know much about PTSD but from what I've read about....I suppose I do fit the symptoms. I get the nightmares and hearing things. I relive it over and over again in my head. I'm depressed, anxious and guilty. I can't sleep. I try to distract myself. I get aches and pains, palpitations and chest pain, I probably drink too much and I try to avoid reminders and talking about it. So, maybe I have it, maybe I don't. It doesn't change anything whether I do or don't. I know people are going to say therapy is the answer and maybe it is. I suppose I just need to get over my issues with that. Easier said than done though. What would I tell that woman? I have no idea.....I guess to go and see her doctor. I've been to my doctor. I've been three times. He just wants to put me on medication and I tried that and it doesn't work for me. So I suppose I should just suck it up and give counselling a try. Get over my problem with it somehow.

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Storeys...

 

It seems you've tried it your way, such a BRAVE way, and such a TOUGH way for so very very long, why don't you give the counceling a try?

 

You don't HAVE to go to the Dr. and take the pills, but certainly, sitting down with a councelor...well, what do you have to lose? What's the worst that can happen? Give it a chance? You've done this all by yourself - certainly done what most people could not. And I give you all the credit in the world.

 

I would urge you to sit down with a councelor. NOT just for one visit. Certainly you will PROBABLY hate the first visit. But GIVE IT A CHANCE. You are carrying a MOUNTAIN of hurt on your shoulders. You need some help here hon. Really. If you don't want the pills, that's fine. But unburdeon yourself. Let someone help you. Talk to a councelor.

 

Certainly, it has to be worth a try at this point, don't you agree?

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Someone told me to give it a go and march in and say that I have problems with it, that I don't trust them and that I'm only trying it for the people that have asked me to. I'd like to be able to do that but I dunno. Everyone says "Go and get counselling" like it's the magical answer for everything don't they? I guess I should be more open about it since I'm older now. I just find it so difficult to admit things and talk about them and I'm clueless as to "how I feel"......or why I feel things and all that kind of stuff. And just how in depth is it going to go? Are I going to be made to admit things I've never admitted to anyone? How far am I expected to go? I know people say that sessions go with how you want them to go but those probing, leading questions they ask.....they make me uncomfortable. I feel like as soon as I get in that room I'm going to turn into the teenage me again. Does that make any sense? There was so much stuff going on back then and sitting in a room every other day with some stranger made everything worse. Trying to force things out of me....."Talking will help you", "Get it off your chest", "I'm paid to listen to you", "How does this make you feel?", "If you don't talk we can't help", "You want things to get better don't you?" "If you don't talk nothing can be done"....staring at me for an hour, watching me get more and more uncomfortable. I walked out in the middle of sessions. I sat in silence for hours at a time. I didn't want their help. I wanted them to just shut up. I didn't want to talk about it. I didn't want to have to tell everything that ever happened in minute detail. It wasn't something I wanted to relive. I never told them half of what happened because I just didn't want it written down and shut away in a filing cabinet. And all that I did tell....well it was all for nothing because nothing ever came of it. Nothing ever happened. Not that I wanted it to anyway but what was the point of going on and on and on at me to tell them things? All I ever wanted was to get away. Jeeeez, that was kind of a rant......sorry. But yeah, what I'm trying to say and get accross is just how bad it was and that it affected me and actually made the situation a hundred times worse. And I suppose that's part of my problem now......I'm scared that if I go now, not only is it going to be really difficult but that it will make everything worse and I can't afford for things to get worse because there isn't much beneath me you know? There isn't much further to fall before something drastic happens.

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Storeys...

 

I am so sorry you had that experience with counceling. Please know that that is NOT the norm.

 

You should try to find SOMEONE that YOU connect with. And this time, as an ADULT, you will NOT be FORCED to sit there. You can get up and leave. And he/she should not ask such intrusive questions.

 

They should allow you to talk about what YOU want to talk about regarding Cassie. And the crying. And the lack of sleep. And whatever else it is that YOU want to talk about. They should NOT push you. And if you don't "connect" with them, then fire them and get another one. Keep trying until you find one that fits you. Ask around for someone who's good.

 

Don't let your past leave you jaded for the future. There are a LOT of good councelors out there.

 

I would like to see you at least try it to help alleviate some of your suffering and to help with your PTSD and your lack of sleep.

 

I believe it would be beneficial to you. I really really do.

 

~Allie

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That's just it though. I don't really want to talk about it.

 

But, don't you think you SHOULD. In your post you said you're having trouble concentrating, focusing; that you were falling asleep for short periods of time.

 

Storeys - how are you going to get better if you don't let SOMEONE help you?

 

You've tried it your way for this long. Why not give it a try? Just a try? Not pills - just talking. I know you don't want to...no one who starts counceling wants to talk. But it does help. I've done it, and so have millions of others.

 

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

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I am pleased to see that you are thinking about taking time off work. I was actually going to suggest it.

 

That's just it though. I don't really want to talk about it.

 

Perhaps, this is the biggest challenge that you must tackle. Your subconscious mind wants to talk about it- and tortures you with racing thoughts and anxiety. You are in a state of unrest. Until you start to consciously tackle this and give your feelings the recongition they are literally crying for- then I fear that your situation will only get more chaotic. Your insomnia represents this inner tug of war.The more you repress this- the more it will become an unmanagable monster that seems to be talking over your mind and body.

 

 

 

Everyone says "Go and get counselling" like it's the magical answer for everything don't they

 

 

It's not magical- and you will have to confront things that could be painful- but the goal is to RESOLVE them and get some closure. You can never heal if you keep things trapped inside. Bringing them out gives you the chance to gain control. Perhaps one of the first things that you should make a prospective counselor aware of is that you have what is almost like a phobia of counselors. You'll probably have to work on that with the counselor before you feel comfortable enough to work on the rest.

 

I'm scared that if I go now, not only is it going to be really difficult but that it will make everything worse and I can't afford for things to get worse because there isn't much beneath me you know?

 

Well, it seems that your insomnia and depression have been getting worse as a result of hoping it will "pass" on it's own. I really don't think counseling can hurt, if you approach it with an open mind and if you are HONEST with your counselor about a.) how much you do not like counselors due to the negative experiences you had as a teen and b.) the current issues you are having now which could be PTSD, or at the very least, generalized anxiety and clinical depression after a tragic event in your life.

 

Perhaps you can try natural wellness remedies along with the couseling- like yoga, valerian root tea, massage, etc.

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Here's a link that summarizes common treatment methods for PTSD. link removed

 

Notice that cognitive behavioral therapy is listed. I really think CBT would be your best approach.

 

Based on what you wrote here- you don't seem like the kind of person that would be open to group therapy (but maybe I'm wrong?)

 

Also, your general doctor means well, but he does not have the expertise to treat your mental health- he is only trying to do what he can with his current skills, which is write a prescription.

 

It may take some research on your part to find a counselor that can work for you. Try making a list and making some phone calls- try to find people who specialize in CBT. Talk to them on the phone first- and see what kind of feeling you get. Decide if it matters to you whether it is a male or female.

 

Here are some questions you may want to ask when selecting a counselor:

 

*Are you open to treating patients who do not want to include medication as treatment?

 

*What is your general approach?

 

*Do you have experience with patients who have bad experiences with counselors in the past?

 

From the link I posted above:

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Stories...I'm sorry to hear that you're going through this.

 

As you know, suicide leaves so many questions behind, that are unfortunately left on the shoulders of loved ones to try to answer.

 

I lost my brother to suicide 12 years ago, I know the pain that's involved, the "What if, Why wasn't I there, Why didn't I see it coming, and so on."

 

I found that the hardest of the 5 stages that you go through in grief, was the anger stage. You can't bear to allow yourself to be angry at someone who has died, you feel guilt for feeling that. But as time went by, I saw that I needed to go through that stage in order to go through the other stages.

 

It is true that suicide leaves family and loved ones with horrible feelings of grief, and I know you're not at a point in grief to hear this, but time does heal. In the end, you come to terms with the fact that it's a choice that they made.

 

Have you tried any support groups? I found them to be of more help than anyone.

 

I wish you the best...

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But, don't you think you SHOULD. In your post you said you're having trouble concentrating, focusing; that you were falling asleep for short periods of time.

 

Storeys - how are you going to get better if you don't let SOMEONE help you?

 

You've tried it your way for this long. Why not give it a try? Just a try? Not pills - just talking. I know you don't want to...no one who starts counceling wants to talk. But it does help. I've done it, and so have millions of others.

 

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

 

I guess I should try and do something yeah. I realise that things aren't good and that they're probably going to get worse if I don't do something. It's just getting over the issues I have with it. I know millions of people have done it and it's helped them....but none of those people are me are they?

 

I am pleased to see that you are thinking about taking time off work. I was actually going to suggest it.

 

Perhaps, this is the biggest challenge that you must tackle. Your subconscious mind wants to talk about it- and tortures you with racing thoughts and anxiety. You are in a state of unrest. Until you start to consciously tackle this and give your feelings the recongition they are literally crying for- then I fear that your situation will only get more chaotic. Your insomnia represents this inner tug of war.The more you repress this- the more it will become an unmanagable monster that seems to be talking over your mind and body.

 

It's not magical- and you will have to confront things that could be painful- but the goal is to RESOLVE them and get some closure. You can never heal if you keep things trapped inside. Bringing them out gives you the chance to gain control. Perhaps one of the first things that you should make a prospective counselor aware of is that you have what is almost like a phobia of counselors. You'll probably have to work on that with the counselor before you feel comfortable enough to work on the rest.

 

Well, it seems that your insomnia and depression have been getting worse as a result of hoping it will "pass" on it's own. I really don't think counseling can hurt, if you approach it with an open mind and if you are HONEST with your counselor about a.) how much you do not like counselors due to the negative experiences you had as a teen and b.) the current issues you are having now which could be PTSD, or at the very least, generalized anivety and clinical depression after a tragic event in your life.

 

Perhaps you can try natural wellness remedies along with the couseling- like yoga, valerian root tea, massage, etc.

 

I suppose it is kind of a phobia now that you mention it. I never thought of it like that but yeah, that's what it is. And I suppose the best way to get past a phobia is to face it head on right?

 

Here's a link that summarizes common treatment methods for PTSD. link removed

 

Notice that cognitive behavioral therapy is listed. I really think CBT would be your best approach.

 

Based on what you wrote here- you don't seem like the kind of person that would be open to group therapy (but maybe I'm wrong?)

 

Also, your general doctor means well, but he does not have the expertise to treat your mental health- he is only trying to do what he can with his current skills, which is write a prescription.

 

It may take some research on your part to find a counselor that can work for you. Try making a list and making some phone calls- try to find people who specialize in CBT. Talk to them on the phone first- and see what kind of feeling you get. Decide if it matters to you whether it is a male or female.

 

Here are some questions you may want to ask when selecting a counselor:

 

*Are you open to treating patients who do not want to include medication as treatment?

 

*What is your general approach?

 

*Do you have experience with patients who have bad experiences with counselors in the past?

 

From the link I posted above

 

 

I've had a look at CBT....what it involves and one thing stands out. You have to be open and honest about your issues and that's something I'm not very good at doing. Being open I mean. I have a feeling that counselling is going to be really, really hard and is going to exhaust me completely. What happens if it makes eveything worse?

 

Group therapy is never going to happen. No way.

 

Stories...I'm sorry to hear that you're going through this.

 

As you know, suicide leaves so many questions behind, that are unfortunately left on the shoulders of loved ones to try to answer.

 

I lost my brother to suicide 12 years ago, I know the pain that's involved, the "What if, Why wasn't I there, Why didn't I see it coming, and so on."

 

I found that the hardest of the 5 stages that you go through in grief, was the anger stage. You can't bear to allow yourself to be angry at someone who has died, you feel guilt for feeling that. But as time went by, I saw that I needed to go through that stage in order to go through the other stages.

 

It is true that suicide leaves family and loved ones with horrible feelings of grief, and I know you're not at a point in grief to hear this, but time does heal. In the end, you come to terms with the fact that it's a choice that they made.

 

Have you tried any support groups? I found them to be of more help than anyone.

 

I wish you the best...

 

Did you get angry at your brother? I don't really feel any anger towards her. I never have and can't see that I will. How could I?

 

I've not tried support groups. It's really not for me.

 

Thanks for your post.

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I guess I should try and do something yeah. I realise that things aren't good and that they're probably going to get worse if I don't do something. It's just getting over the issues I have with it. I know millions of people have done it and it's helped them....but none of those people are me are they?

 

 

No...NONE of those people are you. None of them have stood in your shoes. Only you feel your pain, and I certainly was NOT trying to minimize it in ANY way.

 

I only want what it best for you. The bottom line is it's your call. It's completely up to you.

 

Storeys, I never got counceling after my boyfriend committed suicide, and I guess I always regretted it. The final decision is yours hon.

 

~Allie

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Group therapy is never going to happen. No way.

 

Yeah- I figured that. I'm the same exact way. I like my privacy. When I first was experiencing the post-partum depression my doc reccommended a popular "group therapy" program where moms bring their babies and talk together- but I was TOTALLY turned off by it. I ended up finding a therapist on my own. And when I talked with the therapist on the phone- I considered it a "job interview" for her. You'd be in full control- this is someone you are essentially "hiring". It's a choice.

 

There will be some painful things you may talk about- but the whole point of talking about it is not to rub salt in your wounds- but to come up with strategies to cope and heal.

 

You have to be open and honest about your issues and that's something I'm not very good at doing.

 

Well ,having gone through CBT myself- I can tell you with certainty that they do not expect you to walk through the door with those skills.

 

I don't think you need to be totally open and honest about the feelings- but at the very least AWARE of them (which I think you definitely are- since they are causing you so much unrest)

 

You do have to be willing to "talk". And that is going to be really hard for you- but not as hard as you think. You have managed to talk to all of us.Give yourself credit for that.

 

And remember- you are a grown man who is making the choice to seek counseling . This person would be working for you. You are not a teenage boy who is being forced into it. You and your counselor would work as a team- as opposed to feeling like a counselor and your parents are on a team ganging up on you. The dynamics are totally different now.

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Yes, I was angry at him, he left us with no answers. But that anger stage took a long time to get to. Also, I found that is ok to get angry, and it was a stage of grief we all had to work through.

 

Was it easy? NO! I'd rather have someone shoot arrows at me, than go through that, but you have to, and you can get through it, it's a normal part of the grief process.

 

Wishing you the best...Take care

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I couldn't agree more with what every single person has said here, and I'm so glad that you've updated us.

 

I do believe that you are asking a superhuman thing of yourself -- hoping against hope that you somehow will get through this without professional, SEASONED guidance that is directed specifically at your set of challenges, without medications (which I understand your reasons for not using/wanting) and without any support group. (However, I do believe that your being here is very much like a support group and gives you the chance to be the amazing guide that YOU are as well, to help others in so many ways, so I consider this in lieu of a "live" support group.)

 

In reading what you are experiencing besides the crying -- nightmares, reliving it, etc. -- I do feel more convinced that you are suffering from PTSD. However, the label or the diagnosis really is very secondary here to the fact that what you've gone through is one of the worst traumas a person can go through and so regardless of the diagnosis, whatever the name of it, it doesn't change the fact that at this point you've got nowhere but up to go by giving this a go. And as others have said, to not get discouraged if you get a therapist that is not quite suited to you. It is a type of "relationship" so it's important to have the right fit. And while it's likely you could find the right fit from the start, with some investigation, it's also possible that you may at some point need something slightly different, and you MUST NOT TAKE THAT AS A FAILURE ON YOUR PART or that therapy is just going to fail you. I say this only as a kind of "insurance", if after about 6 sessions you feel that this is a person who isn't on your wavelength. This is not to confuse your discomfort with merely BEING THERE -- remind yourself that no matter what, this is not supposed to be easy for you at this time, and as another poster said, EXPECT to feel UGH at the first meeting.

 

I have never though in my whole adult life, after many therapists, found a single one to put me on the spot in an intrusive way at the very start. Especially if you let it be known upfront that you have this aversion -- or even phobia -- of therapists added into the mix. Some things that I have found helpful in knowing that this is a good match for me:

 

-- the therapist seems comfortable and relaxed in body language and posture (and even attire), not overly formal

-- they nod a lot, with a look of real human compassion on their face, and are very affirming when I speak, saying things like "Of course" and "I'm sure you do"

-- when I ask them, "Am I the only one like this? Is this something you have seen?" they can assure me very confidently in their tone that I'm not some anomaly they've never come accross but that they see this a lot

-- they have a bit of a sense of humor and smile; they aren't just dryly going through motions

-- they are taking notes, but after the first session (which involves more notes than any other session), they are more into looking at me and not working from a clipboard

-- they have an animated and responsive voice when speaking and do initiate speaking frequently; but when they are listening, I feel that they are patient and nonjudmental

-- they are not overly attached to "protocol" and feel somewhat spontaneous

-- they aren't afraid to swear like any other person at moments, "propriety" is not essential, and they aren't afraid to share a few anecdotes of their own (while not being overly personally revealing) -- I want a person who treats me like an equal grown up, not just a "patient"; they connect their own humanity to me in some way

-- they seem eager and interested to work with me, even with all the crap that I just laid at their feet

 

These are of course some personal preferences and may not suit everyone...but I feel that some of these might suit your disposition well. You will know though, that the criteria are being met when you simply feel a warm, caring presense that is nonjudgmental and expresses confidence in the process you are about to embark upon. That is all you need to start. You do not need skills of your own, those you will learn. You do not need to RUN the therapy, that is THEIR job. You do not need to even be in control in the sense that you have a clue where it's going or how you'll make it through the rough waters ahead; if you grow to trust this person more and more, they will help you steer through the rough waters. You ARE in control in the sense that at any point you can voice you discomfort, stop them, speak for yourself and make known whatever is coming up. They NEED to know this anyway, to know how best to interact with you, so this is your pointing them in the direction they need to go; but it's not your responsibility to know how to express or let out painful things at this time.

 

Another thing you might consider asking about (and I WOULD interview more than one counsellor before settling on who sounds like they might be the best, if you can do that on the phone and even better, in person -- I've done that before, met and said I would call back for an appointment) is the technique of EMDR, or "Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing", which is used widely to get acute axiety and trauma under control, and is TOTALLY non verbal. I can try to look up some links, but if you Google it, you will easily find mountains of links. It's an established therapy which I know has helped many, personally close to me (I tried it once, but it wasn't enough of a trial to really know.) Therapists who are trained in that also frequently specialize in just the sorts of things (traumas) you've been dealing with and are usually very experienced in PTSD in particular.

 

 

 

I'm so glad that you said what you did in bold. Because that's ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. No matter what you tried, you might have found yourself EXACTLY where you are now, second-guessing everything that was said or not said. It's neverending. No matter what a person says/doesn't say, if their loved one leaves like this, you will be left with such questions. What exactly was happening in her mind, no one will ever know but her...and then again, that is also true of us when we are alive. The essential human state is that we are alone in our experiences, which can be a very lonely thought as I've encountered it in myself. There are times when even people around me who loved me could do nothing to penetrate my despair and those were the worst times of all. Sometimes, you want someone to crawl into your very being, to be as if of the same seed and that's something none of us get to have. Communication is all we are left with -- hugs, touches, words spoken, whispers, looks. And you gave her the best of all these. I so fervently hope that your knowing you gave her the best of these, which is all you had at your disposal, will start to help you FEEL in your heart that your best was "good enough." Not because things turned out well for her, but that your best was as good as it gets and so you can eventually unshackle yourself from feeling you had some power here that no one on this earth gets to have.

 

Anger: I am not on a quest to bring up anger, however...if you don't encounter it on the way to healing, you will be in the weensy minority of people in that sense. It would make you extremely rare in fact, if you never feel it. Why be angry, you ask? Because she put your life at risk. She knew how you depended upon her for moral and emotional support, that she was in ways the one who had helped you recover from some of the things you'd gone through. You found in her an unparalleled companion, friend, confidente and lover. You relied upon her and needed her, and she knew this.

 

And did this anyway. Left you.

 

I've had to think a lot about what it means to say someone who takes their life is "selfish", because I do believe it IS selfish in the end. However, I believe in self-determination as well -- very much so. I see a strong case to be made for someone saying, "This is my life and I damn well deserve to do with it as I please." So it's an odd thing to say LIVING or DYING is selfish or not selfish, since we all are here by our freewill (once we're born). Staying alive and facing whatever befalls us is a choice we all must make. For our OWN good and sake, above all. And something we renew, and renew and renew -- remake, remake and remake that choice every day. Do we do this for the sake of someone else? I believe that on an ultimate level, we have to do this for OURSELVES. But part of that is to see ourselves as in the context of other people -- that we are not separate from those we love. We must do it for ourselves AND for others as well, both. Because our deeds do not die when we do. We do not end when we die...especially to those we have tragically left behind to flounder without us. So I believe it is selfish to do what she did because of this: that she was more concerned about how her life might look if she stayed, than how your life would look if she was gone. I'm sure she gave it thought, alright. And worried on your behalf. But not enough to say, "I can't do that to him, not after all he's been through."

 

And that would make me very angry, when I consider being in your shoes.

 

But there is no need to force any emotions here. You feel what you feel and everything you feel is right, right now. For you.

 

If it wasn't right...you would be feeling something else. Just be with what is. And go into therapy not expecting anything of yourself except just to keep an open mind -- you have all the strength it takes, I believe. You have already demonstrated you have the strength and believe it or not, I don't think you will uncover anything more awful than what you are already experiencing. I think you've looked the beasties of beasties in the the eyes and have lived to tell about it. The telling is not the worst of it. You wouldn't be here to tell us these things at all, if you didn't have the strength to do this and then some, its already a foregone conclusion by the very fact that you are already doing things most of us would have cracked up trying to do.

 

So go in knowing that you can handle anything. You already have, and the worst has already been gone through.

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