The Law and Friends/Family

[HappyAsALark]

Green Monster...I would send you twenty more rep points if they'd let me You make some extremely intelligent points here....I gave up on this one a couple of days ago and I'm glad someone out there has the energy to stick with it. I'm looking forward to seeing Tao's answers to the questions you've posted here.

 

Hahahaha I was seriously just thinking the exact same thing!!!

[Taomagicdragon]

Just came back from the hospital, sorry for such a late response. Nice, though, that others are getting some kind of entertainment from this. To answer your list:

 

 

1) what is it that is more important...the laws or the morals?

 

For me, my morality

 

2) why wouldn't you bust people that illegally download music but would bust someone who shoplifted a CD?

 

If I witness someone at their computer downloading it, then I would.

 

3) are you fully educated on all aspects of your state, local and national laws when it pertains to the legal violations that you are notifying the authorities of?

 

Yes

 

4) why do you do this? does it get you off? were you wronged in the past?

 

Everyone is wronged in someway. No reason, personally.

 

5) are you in a legal or criminal justice field now?

 

Yes

 

6) do you have a soul?

 

Irrelevant to the topic but yes.

 

7) are you proud of the fact that you are a narc, snitch, backstabber, whistleblower?

 

Neutral, neither proud nor ashamed.

 

8.) when no harm is coming to you, how can u justify your actions without saying that you are a vigilante?

 

Reporting a crime is not a vigilante. Proactive, yes, but it's not a vigilante

 

9) is it more important to do no harm or to obey the law?

 

Both so long as the laws are just.

 

10) have you ever broken any law?

 

No.

 

11) how can you consider yourself a friend if you are willing to send your friends to jail?

 

I separate sentimental feelings of friendship.

 

12) considering that if someone I consider a "friend" did something like this to me I would beat them with a hammer once I got out of jail and I'm sure I'm not the only guy like me...do you fear for you safty from the people whos lives you have ruined coming back after you?

 

No. EDIT: Then they'd go back to jail thusly making their "revenge" fruitless and meaningless with a touch of irony.

[HappyAsALark]

I find it very hard to believe that you have never went 1 MPH over the speed limit or always used your turn signal. Do you have a radar in your car that tracks other peoples speeds so you can call the police when someone is speeding?

 

To be honest, I think you are full of it.

[Taomagicdragon]

I find it very hard to believe that you have never went 1 MPH over the speed limit or always used your turn signal. Do you have a radar in your car that tracks other peoples speeds so you can call the police when someone is speeding?

 

To be honest, I think you are full of it.

 

Your comment about me "being full of it" is noted, HappyAsALark, but fails to contribute to the topic in anyway. To answer your questions however:

 

In CT, the flow of traffic overrides the speed limit on the highways and state routes, otherwise, I stay the speed limit and always use a turn signal.

[HappyAsALark]

Your comment about me "being full of it" is noted, HappyAsALark, but fails to contribute to the topic in anyway. To answer your questions however:

 

In CT, the flow of traffic overrides the speed limit on the highways and state routes, otherwise, I stay the speed limit and always use a turn signal.

 

I know for a fact that is not a fact for the state of CT. A lot of people believe it is but it in fact is not. I lived in CT for 5 years and in that time got 2 speeding tickets while "staying with the flow of traffic" and when I told the judge on both accounts that is what I was doing and the officer on both accounts told the judge that I was in a pack of cars, the judge said, the speed limit is posted for a reason and the speed limit is the law, no matter how fast people around you are driving. So then I researched it a whole lot more and found out the judge was correct. Why else would they post the speed limit if people were allowed to go faster as long as they were in a pack of cars? Yeah doesn't make much sense

[Taomagicdragon]

May I also note how, interesting, the responses are. From calling me a liar to believing something must be "hurting" me from the past.

 

With all the picking apart of my beliefs I could pick back but I don't feel it's necessary as I'm not trying to convert or prove myself to people whom I may likely never meet and whose own personal beliefs and their willingness to favour people they deem as close.

 

Per this thread I already have the answer that I was looking for that many people would treat people of the same crime differently based on friendship/familial relations and would even go so far as to attack someone who turned them in for a prisonable offense. I thank you all for your participation and while I will no longer make any posts of my own account on this thread I will answer anymore questions.

[Taomagicdragon]

Reread the law. You can not impede the flow of traffic. A pack can be a small number of cars when I reference the entire visible sight of highway. According to what you said you were keeping up with a pack which does not necessarily mean the flow of traffic at large.

[greenmonster]

Just came back from the hospital, sorry for such a late response. Nice, though, that others are getting some kind of entertainment from this. To answer your list sorry to hear you've been in the hospital...I hope all is well.

 

 

1) what is it that is more important...the laws or the morals?

 

For me, my morality

yet you think it to be morally just to ruin other people lives when they have caused you no harm

 

2) why wouldn't you bust people that illegally download music but would bust someone who shoplifted a CD?

 

If I witness someone at their computer downloading it, then I would.

you said in a previous post that you wouldn't bust someone downloading music...please don't go back and change things you have previously said. and what is the difference between watching someone do something in person and knowing about it? i mean...hasn't the law still been broken either way? don't you still know about it either way? wouldn't you say that you are in violation of your own code of ethical standards by not calling that in? and whats the point? no one is getting "hurt" and thats what this whole thing started about anyway...thats you main concern right?

 

3) are you fully educated on all aspects of your state, local and national laws when it pertains to the legal violations that you are notifying the authorities of?

 

Yes

haha...no...you aren't...actually...I'd be willing to say that you don't know 1/10th of all the statutes of the laws you think you know so much about. I went through law school and have been in my field for 3 years now and I don't know squat...I know attorneys that have been in practice for 50 years and will openly admit they don't know everything about anything!

 

4) why do you do this? does it get you off? were you wronged in the past?

 

Everyone is wronged in someway. No reason, personally.

this isn't an answer to the question. I am asking you if YOU were wronged...not everyone else...where you wronged in some way that makes you want to pursue this vigilante style of life. do YOU get some kind of joy from it. don't just sit there an say your doing this for no reason...no one purposefully makes other peoples lives hell for no reason unless they are mentally incapable of rational thought.

 

5) are you in a legal or criminal justice field now?

 

Yes

what do you do? because I know some of the best cops in the world and even they still have the human deciency to allow some stuff to pass with nothing more than a warning. and I also know some of the worlds most arrogant attorneys who would never in their lives say that they knew everything about every law...

 

6) do you have a soul?

 

Irrelevant to the topic but yes.

this is debatable....

 

7) are you proud of the fact that you are a narc, snitch, backstabber, whistleblower?

 

Neutral, neither proud nor ashamed.

the is no way you can feel neutral about this. you are a human being, not a robot or a zombie...you must feel something. you must either take pride in the fact that you are ridding the world of crime by your own vigilant means of narcing people out or you are ashamed of yourself for selling out your friends...there is no middle ground.

 

8.) when no harm is coming to you, how can u justify your actions without saying that you are a vigilante?

 

Reporting a crime is not a vigilante. Proactive, yes, but it's not a vigilante

reporting a crime is not vigilant....but the way you go about it makes it very vigilant. you ARE a vigilante...and the fact that you keep denying it simply means you don't understand the word itself. besides that...you didn't answer this question. please quit failing to answer questions and dancing around the subject at hand.

 

9) is it more important to do no harm or to obey the law?

 

Both so long as the laws are just.

this isn't an answer. just laws still cause harm...harm can be done that doesn't violate the law...you need to pick one or the other...quit avoiding the topic

 

10) have you ever broken any law?

 

No.

I wont even go into how much of a joke this is....especially considering that you obviously don't know every law. I called a friend of mine up in Boston that regularly travels through CT about the speeding thing and you are 100% wrong on that. so I don't know how to explain it to you any better.

 

11) how can you consider yourself a friend if you are willing to send your friends to jail?

 

I separate sentimental feelings of friendship.

and yet you still contest that you are a "good friend"?? friends have sentimental feelings towards eachother...and feelings aren't like a switch you can just turn on and off. if you don't have feelings towards a person then you cannot be their friend...like I said earlier...you are not a robot, you cannot just not feel anything. additionally...this yet again...isn't an answer.

 

12) considering that if someone I consider a "friend" did something like this to me I would beat them with a hammer once I got out of jail and I'm sure I'm not the only guy like me...do you fear for you safty from the people whos lives you have ruined coming back after you?

 

No. EDIT: Then they'd go back to jail thusly making their "revenge" fruitless and meaningless with a touch of irony.

haha...you say that...and you may even think that...but if someone that whose life you ruined comes back and cripples you...stabs you in the back in the way that you have stabbed them in the back, but with a knife that separates your spinal cord and leaves you paralized from the neck down...then cuts out your tongue and gouges out your eyes and leaves you fully alive to live out the rest of your days as a living corpse more or less with no ability to communicate or even see the world around you...

 

and they walk away scott free and never return to jail...but instead leave you in your own personal hell to live out your days in with nothing but your own thoughts about what you have done and the lives you have ruined...

 

then I would say that thier revenge isn't fruitless...and the irony would only be that you are now the one who is captive. Captive by your own actions come back to haunt you.

[Taomagicdragon]

I don't take pride in anything I do, actually. Being human and having shame or pride are not always hand in hand. For me, they aren't.

 

The entire point of this thread was for research purposes on a study I'm working on. This forum seemed an interesting place to do a part of my study on so thank you all for your feedback. Human nature is always very interesting especially the attachment to others people feel supersedes the laws that protect them. Most of what I said was fictional but not wholly false.

 

I do report friends for crimes when they assault/hurt someone or when they drink/do drugs illegally but for the most part I'm not as extreme as was stated and the former is because hurting another person is wrong always and the illegal drinking.drugs thing is because I personally don't like those things.

 

Yes ,the details about my family were true. And yes my father's sexual abuse and corporeal/verbal abuse was directed at me.

 

Yes, I had to go to the hospital due to sacs of infection that spread throughout my body (sounds cooler than what it really was)

 

The rest was merely a role for this study I'm working on.

 

Again, thank you all for your support in this study.

[greenmonster]

I don't take pride in anything I do, actually. Being human and having shame or pride are not always hand in hand. For me, they aren't.

 

The entire point of this thread was for research purposes on a study I'm working on. This forum seemed an interesting place to do a part of my study on so thank you all for your feedback.

 

ahh yes...get backed into a corner and just bail...thats fine...I understand

 

 

OH...and pride and shame are two of the most basic human instincts...so unless your a zombie or a robot you have them and are just scared, embarrassed or ashamed to admit....which that too is fine.

 

Since its obviously not pride you take in this then its shame...and I would be ashamed of myself too if I was you so I completely understand. If I was you I would sugest going to see a therapist about your unresolved issues about why you are a modern day vigilante and ashamed about your actions against those you are close to...I would also discuss with them why your scared to show emotion.

 

best of luck to you in the future.

[Taomagicdragon]

ahh yes...get backed into a corner and just bail...thats fine...I understand

 

 

OH...and pride and shame are two of the most basic human instincts...so unless your a zombie or a robot you have them and are just scared, embarrassed or ashamed to admit....which that too is fine.

 

Since its obviously not pride you take in this then its shame...and I would be ashamed of myself too if I was you so I completely understand. If I was you I would sugest going to see a therapist about your unresolved issues about why you are a modern day vigilante and ashamed about your actions against those you are close to...I would also discuss with them why your scared to show emotion.

 

best of luck to you in the future.

 

You may want to reread the post, I editted it with the details of the study.

[Batya33]

I think we all draw the line differently. I would call the police if there was serious physical harm or serious risk of physical harm to myself or someone else (and not hypothetically - it would have to be a real risk) and if my friend who was committing the crime refused to turn himself in or stop the behavior after I made a real effort (if I could without putting myself in danger).

 

What I do try to do is to avoid affiliating with people who break the law and I avoid getting involved (as in, if I suspect someone is, let's say, embezzling at work or being unethical, I will ask the person not to talk about it with me and if that doesn't work I might avoid the friendship). Once in awhile I will explain "why" I am not interested in being involved with the person but it really depends. If it were a drug issue I would feel comfortable saying that I can't be around someone who uses illegal drugs because of the safety issues and the morality as well.

 

I have a friend who cheated insurance companies repeatedly. To me that is immoral, unethical, illegal. Would I report it? No, because there is a limit to my ability to stop crime and I need to choose my battles. I would act the same exact way if it were a stranger or not a good friend.

[Taomagicdragon]

That's close to my own personal viewpoint. The persona for the thread I assumed was far more... well proactive is a nice way of putting it ;-) However for the paper I'm doing I had to adopt a more extreme role in order to get response that were less gray as well as to provoke a defensive "cover my back" response that I was looking for.

 

And no, not giving names or direct quotes and I have about... 5 forums I'm doing this on in addition to the normal collegiate literature needed as well as 4 interviews. Hopefully the paper/video/presentation will go well (It's a term paper due at the end of the semester but I like to get work done ASAP)

[greenmonster]

well if this actually is for some dumb class then lemme put it this way...

 

outside of crimes against children and animals or rape, there is nothing in this world that I wouldn't help cover my friends for....I would bring the shovel to hide a body....

 

but hurt a kid or a dog...and I'd plant you in a hole myself...I don't care who you are.

[Taomagicdragon]

well if this actually is for some dumb class then lemme put it this way...

 

outside of crimes against children and animals or rape, there is nothing in this world that I wouldn't help cover my friends for....I would bring the shovel to hide a body....

 

but hurt a kid or a dog...and I'd plant you in a hole myself...I don't care who you are.

 

Thus I didn't declare the intentions of the thread because that response, while decent for a talk, isn't detailed enough for a study and lacks the depth desired.:splat:

[greensleeves]

Tao...sorry I don't buy it. I believe you were backed into a corner and this excuse is an easy out for you. I personally was extremely concerned about you because of the statements you made about your family and offered to be a sounding board, despite my disagreemet with you on this topic. I took the time to read the previous threads you had posted to achieve a better understanding of your views and your past, so I now have a pretty good idea of what you're all about.

 

You said above that you are not proud of anything you do. Well if this thread was for the purpose of a "study" (which I still doubt), then I can certaintly understand why you would not have pride in your actions. Ena is not here to for people get help for their personal problems and we're not here to serve as your personal "study group". You claim to be a moral person....is that an ethical way to behave? Why waste our time when their are people posting threads who sincerely and desperately need help, sometimes in matters as drastic as suicide?

 

Were your previous threads where you stated in detail how your father abused you also part of a ruse, for the purpose of a paper?

[Taomagicdragon]

The parts for my father? True. However, I refuse to let someone be a sounding board for my own private issues of that nature. If I do want help, then I'll ask.

 

Yes, I am a very hurt person and extremely damaged, but no amount of "it'll be okay" or "It wasn't your fault" will ever fully get rid of it entirely. This topic was for academic purposes but was chosen in part for my past.

 

If you wish to reply on this issue, then send a PM as I will no longer speak of that issue on here.

[greensleeves]

Tao...we may not have agreed on some areas of this thread, however without doubt we're both agreed that these are very serious crimes. If some of them were directed at you I think it would be very important to you. I would never ask you to talk about something like this unless you felt that you wanted to discuss it and you felt comfortable with it. If you ever do want to talk I would be happy to listen and be a sounding board as I'm sure the other people on ena would be as well.

Please feel free to pm me anytime.

 

Please reread my previous post. I made it quite clear that I would never ask you to speak about something you were uncomfortable with (despite the fact that you brought it up on this thread) However, since then, I also see that you have previously posted threads specifically seeking help for the issue and I am sincerely sorry for what happened to you in your past.

 

That aside, please answer my question on how you justify wasting people's time on this forum for the purpose of a study? Do you feel it was an ethical thing to do?

[Flux]

Thus I didn't declare the intentions of the thread because that response, while decent for a talk, isn't detailed enough for a study and lacks the depth desired.

 

Hmm, fairly immoral I would say.

 

So you'll find you have lied several times. You claimed to work in law, you fail to if you are still studying. Arn't you such a noble person.

[Taomagicdragon]

Semantics would argue I was acting. Either way, people chose to post on the friends forum which, 9 times out of 10, isn't of problems that are more urgent than suicide. If I posted a similar topic on the suicide forum then that'd be in extremely poor tastes. I made a role and stuck to it to get some glimpse of an insight into how people could judge people unfairly and still believe they're right (Unfair meaning they'd cover for a friend an offense that they;d let another be caught for just because the former is a friend).

 

Would the answers be any better if I said I was using this as a study from the outset? No, in fact, that'd be worse. I wanted candid replies with the repliers not thinking of anything but their reply.

 

Immoral? I think it's amoral. But that'd again call for semantics.

 

No one was forced to do anything on this topic and if this thread was what I really thought, then wouldn't it just mean a sad life for me? My life, fortunately, is already sad.

 

To the one that mentioned pride and shame as the basic human emotions. I disagree. And while I won't give colourful threats of bashing people with hammers, I will say that I don't feel pride or shame in things and separate myself from my achievements and failings.

 

To the posters on this thread that appear to dislike me as well to the one that seems to pity me in some way; I'd rather be hated than pitied. I may make a post about my past, but I will at my own discretion and if I feel it would make a difference. Good bye for now all.

[Taomagicdragon]

Hmm, fairly immoral I would say.

 

So you'll find you have lied several times. You claimed to work in law, you fail to if you are still studying. Arn't you such a noble person.

 

Never claimed to be noble, and if you read my post history as Greensleeves has done, you'd know that, personally, I consider myself as less than a full person. I am only me, nothing more and nothing less.

[greenmonster]

Yes, I am a very hurt person and extremely damaged, but no amount of "it'll be okay" or "It wasn't your fault" will ever fully get rid of it entirely. This topic was for academic purposes but was chosen in part for my past.

 

finally we get some answers here...

 

now whether this is for a class or not(which I'm still betting on not) the underlying premise of this whole thing is still your own concept and drawing...it is still an area of which you chose to investigate and question and see peoples reaction to.

 

and going back through these posts its quite obvious that the subject of your past linking your vigilante mindset of the present is a very raw nerve to you...its something that you deny and refuse to believe, but it is quite prevalent.

 

more often than not the reason people go into a field or study something is because of the way their lives are impacted in their youth...and since you were harmed and wronged in your past by someone then you have taken it upon yourself to seek "justice" in a world that you see as not having enough whistleblowers because no one was there to blow the wistle and help you...

 

blam!

 

Semantics would argue I was acting. Either way, people chose to post on the friends forum which, 9 times out of 10, isn't of problems that are more urgent than suicide. If I posted a similar topic on the suicide forum then that'd be in extremely poor tastes.

this is a weak excuse...I don't even pay attention to what forum its it...I read the new topics and the most replied..and thats it...and besides this it doesn't mater what forum its it...its still not here for your personal study group and entertainment.

 

I made a role and stuck to it to get some glimpse of an insight into how people could judge people unfairly and still believe they're right (Unfair meaning they'd cover for a friend an offense that they;d let another be caught for just because the former is a friend).

This has to be one of the dumbest things that has ever been put on ENA...you can bet your @ss I'd do a lot more for a friend than someone I didn't know...and thats the WHOLE point of being a friend.

 

if a friend came up to me and said "Hey Max...I need to borrow $100" I would say no problem and dig it out of my wallet, hand it over and not think another thing of it...but if a random guy on the street that I don't know comes up to me and says the same thing there is no way I'm gonna give him $100.

 

its not about judgement...its about relationships you have with people...

 

 

Would the answers be any better if I said I was using this as a study from the outset? No, in fact, that'd be worse. I wanted candid replies with the repliers not thinking of anything but their reply.

nope...you would get the same response from me...I'd back up my friends to almost no end...

 

Immoral? I think it's amoral. But that'd again call for semantics.

much like the word vigilante you also need to learn what semantics means...considering that immoral and amoral are two completely different things there isn't a discussion of semantics here.

 

what you have done and the idea behind this whole thing is IMMORAL...because it is the opposite of something moral...and since is possesses morals either good or bad it thereforeeee cannot be amoral...

 

whatever college you go to is failing miserably, especially at vocabulary...and since you say your studying and lied about the legal field your in then I cannot even imagine what field your actually studying...but I certainly do hope its law so that someday I can have the chance to embarrass you in a courtroom.

 

No one was forced to do anything on this topic and if this thread was what I really thought, then wouldn't it just mean a sad life for me? My life, fortunately, is already sad.

poor me poor me...

 

quit acting like this...

 

we wern't forced...but we gave our time and thoughts willingly...and certainly don't appriciate being decieved.

 

To the one that mentioned pride and shame as the basic human emotions. I disagree. And while I won't give colourful threats of bashing people with hammers, I will say that I don't feel pride or shame in things and separate myself from my achievements and failings.

pride and shame ARE basic human emotions...hell..they are basic emotions in animals..they are primal instincts...saying something contrary to that is basically like saying the sky isn't blue or water isnt wet...

[greensleeves]

Just to be clear...when I enter the forum, I go to the main page where all of the new threads are, not to the individual topic threads. If I see a a thread that looks interesting, I'll view it and possibly answer. In this particular case, the poster (you or your "role")appeared to have a serious problem with their views on friendship and the possibility that their actions had caused them to lose a group of friends. Definitely a situation that I would have sympathy with and take an interest in discussing.

 

I strongly disagree with the tactics that you used here and based on the wording in your initial post my reaction is still that you may have been backed into a corner here and are now backtracking and creating a false reason for the thread because you can't properly answer greenmontser's questions.

 

If I'm wrong, then please consider sharing the following with us. What exactly are you studying and how does this paper pertain to that? How is the information you gathered going to assist in creating the paper? Are you willing to share the paper with us when it's completed?

 

Despite all, I truly hope that you get the help that you need to deal with your past issues so that you can have a fullfilling life and no longer view yourself as less than a full person. You are young and life is far too precious to live like that. My previous comment about being a sounding board whether on a thread or by pm was sincere and will always stand, when and if you feel you might be ready to talk about it.