rosephase Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 In CT, illegal prostitution is connected to gang violence, kidnapping, drug violence, etc. The fact that most illegal prostitutes are not there by choice gives me more of a reason to report. So yes, I would as the free will and consenting points are already heavily in doubt + the associative problems with it in CT (gang/drudge/kidnapping etc). I don't know about CT but here in Seattle we have a lot of healthy happy independent girls and women who have sex for money... and it's completely illegal. Would you report a friend who was ether having sex for money or paying money to have sex if it was all safe and consensual, but illegal? Link to comment
Taomagicdragon Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Two consensual people of age, both being single (or in an open-relationship) and there were no false pretenses and it was understood by both perfectly clear with protection being used? I'd have no problem with it (this assumes that the friend would tell mr. morality (me) about it, doubtful) Link to comment
rosephase Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Two consensual people of age, both being single (or in an open-relationship) and there were no false pretenses and it was understood by both perfectly clear with protection being used? I'd have no problem with it (this assumes that the friend would tell mr. morality (me) about it, doubtful) So it's not the law that you are holding up... it's your own moral code... Which I can stand by. As long as you are putting thought into it and not just going along with what is stated as legal and illegal I'm good with it... But I wouldn't be surprised if you have a hard time with finding friends, people don't like being judged. Especially if there own moral code is telling them they are doing nothing wrong. Link to comment
Taomagicdragon Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 So it's not the law that you are holding up... it's your own moral code... Which I can stand by. As long as you are putting thought into it and not just going along with what is stated as legal and illegal I'm good with it... But I wouldn't be surprised if you have a hard time with finding friends, people don't like being judged. Especially if there own moral code is telling them they are doing nothing wrong. Laws are meant to protect people from another's offense. In the last example there is no offense, and there is no protection being needed. Though, letter-wise, against the law you'd be hard-pressed to find an officer or a DA to pursue it because no one was in danger. Link to comment
Flux Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I actually completely disagree with you on almost every point you just made, if I had a friend who had caused a fatality by driving dangerously, I would not inform the police. I would ask him or her to hand themself in and tell them its the right thing to do, I would not however go behind their back and report them. It's completely disloyal And if a friend commited a crime that I severly dissapproved of, such as a racial or homophobic attack on a person, I still would not grass on them. I would get on my high horse and no longer have them as a friend and make them aware of it. I would not betray them, if you want to be moral it's fine, but turning your back on someone you consider to be a friend and a person that trusts you is the complete opposite of morality. As for reporting someone for drinking in a bar underage or using a fake ID, I'm sorry, but that is just pathetic. It just screams that your someone who is stirring trouble for no apparent reason. If it was you or a friends bar, I would understand. But walking into a regular bar and doing it is just ridiculous, it has no affect on you whatsoever, and if the person serving hasn't realised it is fake then it is thier problem. They are crimes of strict liability, you interfering won't help matters. Considering that the bar would be at fault and not the people in the bar. Link to comment
Flux Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Laws are meant to protect people from another's offense. In the last example there is no offense, and there is no protection being needed. Though, letter-wise, against the law you'd be hard-pressed to find an officer or a DA to pursue it because no one was in danger. Granted, but now may I ask you if you have studied law? Link to comment
Taomagicdragon Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Granted, but now may I ask you if you have studied law? Yes. (Not enough character to submit so I am going to now submit again) Link to comment
Flux Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Well, if you have. I find the fact you put you're friends or family through that system quite discusting, that you would expose a friend to it. I think the fact you've put yourself and your morality on a pedastal that it comes accross quite ignorant and arrogant. I apologize if I offend you, but I think you will find it quite hard to find friends Link to comment
Taomagicdragon Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Well, if you have. I find the fact you put you're friends or family through that system quite disgusting, that you would expose a friend to it. I think the fact you've put yourself and your morality on a pedestal that it comes accross quite ignorant and arrogant. I apologize if I offend you, but I think you will find it quite hard to find friends I hold myself to the same principles and would expect myself to be treated the same way. You didn't offend me, no worries there. I'm not looking for friends currently, and have a fair amount right now so I'm not worried. As for exposing, if any friend of mine flaunts speeding, illegal-drinking, etc etc near me then it's no different than me treating them like I would treat anyone else in a moral digression situation. I treat everyone, in that sense, equally. Link to comment
Flux Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I treat everyone, in that sense, equally. In hindsight, yes, you should treat them differently. But as these people are your friends, surely they deserve more loyalty from you than a stranger. Link to comment
Taomagicdragon Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 In hindsight, yes, you should treat them differently. But as these people are your friends, surely they deserve more loyalty from you than a stranger. They have my loyalty in that I would stick up for them, keep their secrets, give advice discreetly, do favours, and other such things. I will not allow them to do something I would report another for doing. I am not a hypocrite. Link to comment
Flux Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Well, you see yourself and not being a hypocrite. I see you as completely unruly. The fact you would report a crime that has no effect on you is bad enough, its just **** stirring Link to comment
HappyAsALark Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 The only time I would report friends or family is in the case of a violent crime that is going to occur or that has already occurred. Link to comment
Taomagicdragon Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Well, you see yourself and not being a hypocrite. I see you as completely unruly. The fact you would report a crime that has no effect on you is bad enough, its just **** stirring A crime is a crime. If you see someone shoplifting and you were asked if you saw anything, wouldn't you give a statement? Link to comment
Taomagicdragon Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 The only time I would report friends or family is in the case of a violent crime that is going to occur or that has already occurred. And I completely respect that. Link to comment
HappyAsALark Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 A crime is a crime. If you see someone shoplifting and you were asked if you saw anything, wouldn't you give a statement? Yes I would give a statement but I would not intentionally go report them. If I was asked to be a witness I would not lie about it, but I would also not run to an employee of the store and tell on them. To me that is the stores job to train employees and have proper security to prevent this from happening. Not mine. If half of the stores employees were doing their jobs in the stores I have been in lately, theft rates would probably be a lot lower anyways. Link to comment
Flux Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 A crime is a crime. If you see someone shoplifting and you were asked if you saw anything, wouldn't you give a statement? No I would not. Namely because I used to be a shoplifter. You see a crime, and you can't know how or why it has happened. If I saw a 80 year old women stealing a tin of tuna, I would not run and tell, I would let her. If I saw a ten year old stealing a mars bar, I would not acknowledge it either. If I saw a 25 year old man stealing an iPod from a shop, then fair play to him. Link to comment
Taomagicdragon Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Yes I would give a statement but I would not intentionally go report them. If I was asked to be a witness I would not lie about it, but I would also not run to an employee of the store and tell on them. To me that is the stores job to train employees and have proper security to prevent this from happening. Not mine. If half of the stores employees were doing their jobs in the stores I have been in lately, theft rates would probably be a lot lower anyways. I would report it to the store owner, personally. As for Ms. Flux, we'll just have to agree to disagree that you're fine with thievery done to others whereas I'm not. Would you be okay if someone stole from you and the item was brought back to you because someone who witnessed it reported it(curious)? Link to comment
HappyAsALark Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I would report it to the store owner, personally. As for Ms. Flux, we'll just have to agree to disagree that you're fine with thievery done to others whereas I'm not. Would you be okay if someone stole from you (curious)? Of course Flux would care, just as would I. I do not care if someone steals from a store. It is not my problem nor my business. If someone steals from me, then it becomes my problem and my business. Link to comment
Taomagicdragon Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Of course Flux would care, just as would I. I do not care if someone steals from a store. It is not my problem nor my business. If someone steals from me, then it becomes my problem and my business. You can't speak for her. Her stated reason to be okay with it is because she used to do it, your reason is because it's not your business. I am merely curious if she'd have some kind of sympathy due to her.. intimacy.. with the topic. Link to comment
greensleeves Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Had an argument with some friends resulting in the likely loss of those friendships. After explaining this the majority stormed out of the room while muttering "Benedict" and similar meanings and phrases that meant they consider me untrustworthy. I feel that I was in the right, after all they were all clamouring that the friend was a snitch and a backstabber.QUOTE] I'm not looking for friends currently, and have a fair amount right now so I'm not worried. QUOTE] self-right·eous -confident of one's own righteousness, esp. when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others. [Origin: 1670–80] Who appointed you as a guardian of society? Good luck in keeping the friends that you have left. Link to comment
Taomagicdragon Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 self-right·eous -confident of one's own righteousness, esp. when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others. [Origin: 1670–80] Who appointed you as a guardian of society? Good luck in keeping the friends that you have left. I am actually very tolerant of behaviour I don't like. I tolerate many people's behaviours and actions, so long as I don't see something I deem as risking the well being of another. As for opinions, I deeply respect a person's right to have them and state them even if I don't agree with it. As for the appointed thing, I'm not overstepping the boundaries or authority of the law and am merely following the protocol. Thanks for wishing me luck but if they don't respect me as a person for this then why do I want people like that around? Link to comment
greensleeves Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I'm usually up for a good debate, but a previous poster was right....this is fruitless. Link to comment
Taomagicdragon Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 I'm usually up for a good debate, but a previous poster was right....this is fruitless. Depends what kind of fruit you're trying to harvest. I merely asked have other people been in similar situations where they had to choose between their own idea of what's right and friendship/family. Link to comment
HappyAsALark Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Depends what kind of fruit you're trying to harvest. I merely asked have other people been in similar situations where they had to choose between their own idea of what's right and friendship/family. No because my friends and family are not convicts. Link to comment
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