tylercdurden2004 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Its funny, I was less committal when I felt like there were options. . But this maybe what the men are picking up on. The feeling that you are in short more desparate now. Link to comment
icarus27 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Gratsy, I'm with tyler on this one. I don't really understand what you're complaining about. It could be that you're just venting. I hear a woman who avoided commitment in her early 20s, now complaining that in her late 20s, she meets men who are commitment-avoidant, to use L4L's phrase. You're bothered that your own mindset has changed and you want something deeper now. Well, boo-hoo if the men in your peer group don't feel the same way as you do. Did you ever stop to wonder what it must have been like for those men in your early 20s who searched for commitment, only to have to deal with fickle women like yourself at that age? Now you know. All that's happened is that you've had a reality check. Link to comment
Gratsy Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 I don't know for a fact that more women DO complain about it. Some might argue that if they do, maybe they are just more vocal about their problems. Maybe it's because they have childbirth to consider while men can move on more quickly from heartbreak since they don't have to worry about being able to reproduce. It could be that the whole commitment-phobia myth was created when women were no longer assured of being married, since society has changed greatly in that respect. The fact is, I have been the dumper and the dumpee. I know why I dumped people, and it wasn't because I feared commitment. I can only assume that the guys who dumped me didn't fear commitment, either. They just didn't want to be with me, which is their loss. You and I both know that as a social issue, the idea of men being less committal than women is widely accepted. Of course some may argue that its because women are more vocal, but thats a speculative variable without evidence. I mean, offhandedly you can probably see that MANY men don't have problems vocalizing their complaints. It could also have something to do with the changes in social dynamics concerning marriage assurance...like what though? You know why you dump people but then again- you are a woman. I assert that the way men think is very differently from women. I think that the possiblity of a man being afraid of commitment...even to a wonderful woman...is there... Link to comment
Gratsy Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 Gratsy, I'm with tyler on this one. I don't really understand what you're complaining about. It could be that you're just venting. I hear a woman who avoided commitment in her early 20s, now complaining that in her late 20s, she meets men who are commitment-avoidant, to use L4L's phrase. You're bothered that your own mindset has changed and you want something deeper now. Well, boo-hoo if the men in your peer group don't feel the same way as you do. Did you ever stop to wonder what it must have been like for those men in your early 20s who searched for commitment, only to have to deal with fickle women like yourself at that age? Now you know. All that's happened is that you've had a reality check. I'm complaining about the fact that men are less commital than women at ages that are better for considering marriage. I had many good reasons for not wanting to get married in my early twenties...there was a lot to experience, financial reasons, lack of experience...often the men who were simply "not thinking" about our current positions in life were the ones who were so eager for marriage. They didn't think about their decisions...they just wanted to run with their hearts. Well, now, its safe to think about commital things but all of the guys who wanted marriage ARE married while I waited until I established myself a little. It makes perfect sense for me. I don't think I deserve a punishment or role-switch just because I chose to THINK before throwing myself into a commitment I knew I wasn't ready for. I don't like that men act like we are going to automatically expect a commitment and act scared of that. Its VERY annoying. I'm aware of a reality check- thats why I'm complaining. I really don't like unfair things. Link to comment
Gratsy Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 But this maybe what the men are picking up on. The feeling that you are in short more desparate now. But its all circular. Not my fault and still unfair. I was forced to be desperate. When you're in a desert, natural reaction is to become a little more desperate for food & water. Link to comment
Gratsy Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 i don't think it's so much of a 'fear of committment' as not liking a woman/man enough to give up their other options (ie, singlehood, the opportunity to meet someone they like better.....) This might be it. That really hurts to think. What made me so wonderful then as opposed to now? I mean, I think I'm less selfish now than I was then. I'm a lot nicer. Link to comment
bulletproof Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 You and I both know that as a social issue, the idea of men being less committal than women is widely accepted. By whom? By women. How often do you hear a guy saying, I really loved my gf but I broke up with her because I'm afraid of commitment? I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've heard that from a guy. And, often, these alleged commitment-fearing individuals do in fact go on to have another long-term relationship, often resulting in a commitment. So what happened? They found a cure for their fear? No. They just didn't want to be with the women that they broke up with. If you're speaking from a biological perspective, then yes, men are less prone to monogamy because they are driven to reproduce with as many females as possible. But that's not a 'fear', nor is it a recent development. That's just nature. Link to comment
Gratsy Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 By whom? By women. How often do you hear a guy saying, I really loved my gf but I broke up with her because I'm afraid of commitment? I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've heard that from a guy. And, often, these alleged commitment-fearing individuals do in fact go on to have another long-term relationship, often resulting in a commitment. So what happened? They found a cure for their fear? No. They just didn't want to be with the women that they broke up with. If you're speaking from a biological perspective, then yes, men are less prone to monogamy because they are driven to reproduce with as many females as possible. But that's not a 'fear', nor is it a recent development. That's just nature. You make some good points but, I consider monogamy to go hand in hand with commitment, don't you? To me it seems as though the biological reason you gave would say why they aren't as committal...although I don't know if I agree with that either...to me its like letting certain men get off scott free because its "in their nature" or something. Link to comment
crippledsoul225 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I can see how that would happen. Like, when a guy asks me what I want in a man...some of the things are spoken from the p.o.v of someone who is looking long-term. I'll say, "someone who will be easy to live with," things like that. Perhaps that is what makes them sense it. So what does that all mean? Why now and not earlier? Why the unfair change in relational dynamics for me? Now I'm the one whose doing all the worrying...before it was them. Why not? Why shouldn't the tables turn? Now you get a chance to experience that the married type men felt like. Link to comment
Gratsy Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 Why not? Why shouldn't the tables turn? Now you get a chance to experience that the married type men felt like. Because I had good reasons! They don't have good reasons, presumably. Plus I'm a good person. Link to comment
crippledsoul225 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 That's not true. I am a commitment-phobic so I can speak on this. When someone is commitment-phobic there is no right person for them. Finding the right person would not make my commitment-phobia go away. Link to comment
crippledsoul225 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Because I had good reasons! They don't have good reasons, presumably. Plus I'm a good person. How do you know they didn't have good reasons? Do you expect men to do everything on your terms? Link to comment
Gratsy Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 That's not true. I am a commitment-phobic so I can speak on this. When someone is commitment-phobic there is no right person for them. Finding the right person would not make my commitment-phobia go away. Do you have any examples? Have you ever fallen in love with a wonderful woman but feared commitment and thus ended things/did not act on your emotions? Link to comment
Gratsy Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 How do you know they didn't have good reasons? Do you expect men to do everything on your terms? I know because of a set of standards based on reality that I followed. I knew they didn't think it through b/c they were poor as hell in college and so was I. I expect men to do some things on my terms and I'm certainly willing to be adaptive to their terms within reason. Link to comment
crippledsoul225 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I know because of a set of standards based on reality that I followed. I knew they didn't think it through b/c they were poor as hell in college and so was I. I expect men to do some things on my terms and I'm certainly willing to be adaptive to their terms within reason. Well when I was 20 or 21 I wanted to get married. I wanted to be with a woman 24/7. Now I'm 27 and I have outgrown that desire. Now I only want to see a girl once every 2 weeks. Perhaps the men your age have matured enough to think things through before getting married and that's why they are not committing to you now. But yeah telling a man early on in dating that you want to get married and have kids will come off as desperate on his radar. I would have taken off running myself. Link to comment
crippledsoul225 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Do you have any examples? Have you ever fallen in love with a wonderful woman but feared commitment and thus ended things/did not act on your emotions? I never ended the relationship. She did. Well she was forced to end it because it wasn't going anywhere. She got fed up with me being all wishy washy about marriage. We were together for 4 years. Just the thought of living in the same house with her for the rest of my life was enough to scare the hell out of me. I also had the fear of winding up in divorce court because one day she would change and want something different. I'm still not over her to this day. One of my uncles was commitment-phobic too. He was dating this one girl back in the early 80s. She wanted marriage and he said he wasn't ready because he wanted to get his bachelor's degree. But 6 months later he regretted it and showed up at her door with a ring but it was too late. She got married to someone else. He still regrets it to this day. This happened 20 years ago. Link to comment
Gratsy Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 Well when I was 20 or 21 I wanted to get married. I wanted to be with a woman 24/7. Now I'm 27 and I have outgrown that desire. Now I only want to see a girl once every 2 weeks. Perhaps the men your age have matured enough to think things through before getting married and that's why they are not committing to you now. But yeah telling a man early on in dating that you want to get married and have kids will come off as desperate on his radar. I would have taken off running myself. I don't tell men that. But there is a segment of the sect that I follow where the men believe that if you date someone, basically you're testing that person for marriage. I tend to embrace a lot of their beliefs although not all of them b/c they are ultra conservative. Maybe you're right. So what are, exactly, the things that make men fear marriage? Link to comment
Gratsy Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 I never ended the relationship. She did. Well she was forced to end it because it wasn't going anywhere. She got fed up with me being all wishy washy about marriage. We were together for 4 years. Just the thought of living in the same house with her for the rest of my life was enough to scare the hell out of me. I also had the fear of winding up in divorce court because one day she would change and want something different. I'm still not over her to this day. Sounds familiar. However, the part of living in the same house thing is odd and kind of scary. I hope I never fall in love with someone who feels that way about me, what a nightmare (I don't mean to sound judgmental...it really does just scare me to think that there are men who feel that way about the women they date/fall in love with and that I could accidently involve myself with one). So to me it sounds like the risks that are involved...some men don't think that they are worth it...the vulnerability etc. Link to comment
midnightrambler Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 settling for the wrong woman when a better one comes down the road....inlaws, her friends, Link to comment
Gratsy Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 settling for the wrong woman when a better one comes down the road....inlaws, her friends, OUCH. That hurts. Link to comment
crippledsoul225 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I don't tell men that. But there is a segment of the sect that I follow where the men believe that if you date someone, basically you're testing that person for marriage. I tend to embrace a lot of their beliefs although not all of them b/c they are ultra conservative. Maybe you're right. So what are, exactly, the things that make men fear marriage? Well the majority of women do date to find out who they want to marry. That's just what the average person assumes. So maybe the men you come in contact with have this preconceived idea that you eventually want marriage. Link to comment
midnightrambler Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 OUCH. That hurts. i just report the news----i am sure you come from a lovely family Link to comment
crippledsoul225 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Gratsy read my thread titled "reasons I don't want to get married" and see if that will help shed some light on this subject. I'm not speaking for all men here. It's just my personal experience. Link to comment
Gratsy Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 Gratsy read my thread titled "reasons I don't want to get married" and see if that will help shed some light on this subject. I'm not speaking for all men here. It's just my personal experience. You're different. You remind me of a friend I have who is a little whacky in the head. I don't mean that as an insult...its just that you march to a different tune. I'm actually talking about the typical red-blooded American man and how they feel about marriage. I just want normalcy. I don't think that men fear marriage for many of the reasons you put...I think that they fear them for different reasons. Especially the not liking sex part. Normal guys like sex and thats usually why they marry. Actually, used to be one of my big reasons men aren't committal these days. So many of them "get the milk for free so why should they buy the cow?" type of thing. But it applies to my life...I'm a virgin, so that can't be the complete reason. Link to comment
Gratsy Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 i just report the news----i am sure you come from a lovely family I can definetly see this, though. Actually one of the big things for me is that I really really would love to like his family. I also want someone whose family accepts me. I've dated guys whose family hated me b/c of my religion, its hell. I would also like him to at least be willing to spend time with mine since I do that a lot. I want my family to like the guy I date...so I usually let them meet early on. So I guess I can see how it would apply to men as well. Come to think of it, many of them cooled their feelings after meeting my crazy lil' family. Link to comment
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