Channel YOUR gut instinct please!

[TheFoglifter]

... will just go from one type of abuse to another."

 

This is an interesting statement.

 

Could you please go into more detail about what a wonderful boyfriend this "friend" will be? What is he offering? Not just vague stuff like "he won't cheat". I want to know what makes him such a much better catch?

[TheFoglifter]

No, I really do want to know why he is such a great catch. Will he cook for her nightly? Will she get European vacations? Will he go down on her hourly? Will she always be paid attention to? Will he not hit her? Will he let her choose where they live, and what color the wedding cake is?

 

Its a legitimate question, and not intended to be sarcastic.

[Dako]

And you can tell me in 100% complete honesty that you have never been dishonest even a little in any of your relationships?.

 

This is a little dishonest?

So if I tell her those jeans are flattering, your plan to break up a couple is vindicated? That's fine logic.

 

Perhaps your friend could be more convincing.

[StrangeWay]

Could you please go into more detail about what a wonderful boyfriend this "friend" will be? What is he offering? Not just vague stuff like "he won't cheat". I want to know what makes him such a much better catch?

 

Great question! I believe I have already mentioned before that he completely ADORES her. He pampers her, and that would only continue if they were to be together. He would spoil her. I cant explain that look he gives her, and how much he dotes on her, but its like he just melts. Its really cute, and a bit funny to watch this man go from a strong man to putty when she is near. He just radiates this warmth and caring for her, and its so obvious to everyone.

 

No, I really do want to know why he is such a great catch. Will he cook for her nightly? Will she get European vacations? Will he go down on her hourly? Will she always be paid attention to? Will he not hit her? Will he let her choose where they live, and what color the wedding cake is?

 

Its funny you brought up some of those things, because he asked her already where she would love to live, and what type of house. I believe he has plans of actually fufilling that dream for her. He already wants to take her on a vacation when this is all said and done. He is a very patient man, is loving, nice and warm, he actually is invested in what she is truly thinking and feeling, and if he cant get those answers right away, he tries his best still, and delves her mind, he truly wants to know *her* and who she is, what makes her tick, he practically worships her. Alot of the time, he brings her little trinkets, a chocolate, a sweet treat, a book he's read, he is just very nuturing to her! He goes out of his way to make her feel special and loved. What else can I say? He just adores her. Thats the best way to put it.

 

Actually, he has asked her to marry him. She brushed him off. He asked her in a very spur of the moment way, and she laughed it off, but he was serious.

[Daddy Bear]

I wouldn't say that her best choice is to remain with her current beau, but as this soap opera progresses I feel more and more iffy about the friend. How would she feel if she knew that he - and you - were scheming to destroy her relationship in his own interest? She has chosen the sketchy, gropy, pukey boyfriend for better or worse; should that decision not be respected?

 

Sordid, sordid, sordid... and dishonorable. A big red "X" over both of these self-centered pikers, and a stern grimace toward whoever conspires with them in their shadowy skulkings. What grief, if she knew the unholy doings that go on behind her back!

 

I hope she secures a lifemate who deals his cards from the top of the deck, treating her kindly and with transparent openness according to what's truly best for them both. My gut says that worthy person will be neither of these two gentlemen.

[StrangeWay]

I still would like to know how old the people involved in this situation are.

 

Sorry about that. Everyone involved is from their late 20's to mid 30's.

[TheFoglifter]

I'm sure strangeway is going to say that the friend isn't really "stealing" since she won't be attached when he makes his move. Its a loophole of sorts that he technically isn't stealing her directly, he is just expediting the inevitable. As I said earlier, this is the plot of MacBeth, and it didn't end too well.

 

Part of me is afraid for the expectation that this guy is going to set up. Is he super-rich? Seems he has very high aspirations of the things he wants to do, and I'm afraid he won't be able to top himself. What happens if they get together, and he hits the gas full throttle, then burns out? Right now he is motivated by the pursuit, but that is only half the battle. Its not possible to perform at 110% all of the time.

 

The boyfriend has the benefit and curse of being the status quo. On the one side he is established and familiar. On the other side he is stale and usual. The friend is new and different, and represents possibility.

 

As far as the mentions of abuse, I guess it comes down to her priorities in life. Is this girl with her bad boyfriends because she is just "that way"? Does she need the fixer upper? Does she need the thrill and drama of a guy who is unreliable and who plays by his own rules?

 

There is a thread on this forum called something like "my boyfriend is perfect and I want to break up with him". Basically, a girl was sad because her boyfriend was just too perfect. He saw to all her needs, he loved her endlessly, he was supportive and caring... and she was just bored of him. This is what motivates me to ALWAYS have at least one flaw, because I don't ever want to be dumped for being too good.

 

So I sure hope that she doesn't get together with this friend, only to dump him a month later because there is no excitement. Please tell your friend, if he doesn't know already, that when a guy is "too good", it backfires. He'll always have a super-high standard to live up to, he'll always have to top himself, he'll never get to relax, and ultimately, getting what you want all the time leaves you unfulfilled.

[StrangeWay]

The boyfriend has the benefit and curse of being the status quo. On the one side he is established and familiar. On the other side he is stale and usual. The friend is new and different, and represents possibility.

 

I think this is what she is afraid of most of all. Thats what is thwarting my friend in the first place. That is black mark against him.

[drewciouS281]

All i have to say about this is that if i was the girls boyfriend and found out that 1: you (my friend) were trying to help someone get my girl and 2: this other guys intentions i would wipe the curb with the both of you. You dont go there with peoples relationships. we all learn from our mistakes and i think you should completely stay out of it and this guy just be a friend and not sly his way in. You all think her and this other guy could be perfect together but once the romance phase dies you dont know what may happen. it could be worse than her current relationship. I have had other guys try and do this to me cause they thought they were better for my girl than me. well i wont explain what happened to them when i found out but you just dont go there. couples have rough trials. sometimes they come out of it, and sometimes they dont but im sure she will make the right decision she wants for herself. Your making all of these assumtions of what she is thinking or why she wont leave but in fact you really dont know. Just stay out of it and this other guy needs to too.... Your opening a box that may explode in your face.. literally.

[wandy27]

yea dont understand but to each its own

[Daddy Bear]

I'm not convinced that StrangeWay is the friend, and I'm not even sure that' question is relevant. What I think the focus of this discussion should be is whether or not it's right to plot to separate the girl from her boyfriend. The consensus here is that it's underhanded and wrong, and I'm in full agreement. It's a matter of conscience, pure and simple. Nothing wrong with him wanting her and hoping that she becomes available, but knocking down the life she's trying to build, in hopes of gallantly snatching her from the rubble? Dude! That's not the loving action of a true friend. There are unwritten codes governing what is and isn't honorable, and that's a blatant violation.

 

Put it this way: if he rearranges her environment once to drive her in his direction, he'd most likely do it whenever it suited his purposes once she was in his - I'm sorry - evil clutches. What color is THAT flag?

[TheFoglifter]

... i have to say about this is that if i was the girls boyfriend and found out that 1: you (my friend) were trying to help someone get my girl and 2: this other guys intentions i would wipe the curb with the both of you. You dont go there with peoples relationships. we all learn from our mistakes"

 

I agree with what drew said to a certain extent. But, what if you ALSO learned that your girlfriend was bitterly unhappy with you because you were manipulative, insecure, controlling, and just plain rotten to her. What if you learned that you had a competitor, who quite frankly was offering her a much better deal, and she'd be stupid not to take it?

 

Plus, she may not realize it at the time, but the OP isn't a bad friend, she seems to have the gf's well being at heart. I've seen no indication that the gf is HAPPY with her bf, merely that she has a bf for the sake of having a bf.

 

In a twisted way, if the bf found out, it could be a blessing in disguise. Obviously the others involved don't feel he is doing much for the girl. The bf might do well to learn that he is in serious danger of losing his gf, and if he really gives a damn, he should address the reasons why. Maybe he needs to realize the scope of what could happen, and address his behavior. Otherwise, perhaps he would do well to just say "you're right, you deserve better than me".

 

This friend would not be a threat if the gf was happy.

[annie24]

my gut instinct is that no one will "win" in this situation. everyone sounds young and immature. why is she with this guy who treats her like crap? and why is this guy in love with this girl who is in love with her crappy boyfriend? maybe he is not so crappy as you think he is, afterall, something is keeping her with him for all those years. I think that the friend is kind of lame himself, I think he has issues waiting for this woman. he should find a single woman. I think part of his attraction is that he can't have her, and thereforeeee he wants her. if he finally got her, I think he would eventually ignore her also. just my 2 cents...

[Daddy Bear]

Because the OP, who is clearly biased toward this friend, hasn't given us any explicit indication of the girl's happiness; you feel that overriding, by scurrilous means and selfish intentions, this woman's decision to remain with the mate of her own choosing is justifiable? What kind of strained and convoluted Alice in Wonderland reasoning is that?

 

You know, Fog, I'm starting to wonder if YOU aren't the friend in question.

[StrangeWay]

Where does the manipulations stop? When he gets her, what will he do then? She has a friend he doesn't like, he starts manipulating her to not see that friend any more. He only likes her to be in certain clothes, so he starts making comments to get her to change her style. Next, hey that hair cut doesn't look right.

 

Carnelian, he is not going to become a dictator...coincidentally, everything you just described fits her BOYFRIEND to a T. Now mutiply that by 1000 and you should begin to get an idea of what I mean.

 

 

 

I have had other guys try and do this to me cause they thought they were better for my girl than me. well i wont explain what happened to them when i found out but you just dont go there

 

As Drew perfectly pointed out, he had other guys try to to do this to him, BUT instead of being a clueless dimwit who cares less about what is going on with his girlfriends life so long as she is servicing is needs, he chose to be PROACTIVE about it because he is actually INVESTED in her life instead of just keeping her around because nothing better is going on right now.

 

I am tired of explaining this over and over again. It is what it is. The BF is NOT INVESTED in her life. The friend IS. The girl is just chosing to stay put out of fear.

 

afterall, something is keeping her with him for all those years.

 

Yes, its called FEAR of the unkown. Which is pretty much what she admitted to me after the dozenth time she called me in yet another crying jag (which was completely justified).

 

I think part of his attraction is that he can't have her, and thereforeeee he wants her. if he finally got her, I think he would eventually ignore her also

 

I have explained this already, and it has nothing to do with that. I have asked him a couple of times if this is really what it is, and its not. He is a MAN not a little boy. He has been rejected quite a few times in his life and it has never phased him. He has moved on. He is a very experienced man, in all areas. As I pointed out somewhere in this thread before, I can back this up because I have spoken with his ex. Who was very informative.

 

This friend would not be a threat if the gf was happy.

 

 

And this is truly what it boils down to. Think about this logically for a moment.

 

I agree with what drew said to a certain extent. But, what if you ALSO learned that your girlfriend was bitterly unhappy with you because you were manipulative, insecure, controlling, and just plain rotten to her. What if you learned that you had a competitor, who quite frankly was offering her a much better deal, and she'd be stupid not to take it?

 

Thats right.. The boyfriend DOES have a choice within all of this as well.....

[TheFoglifter]

... know, Fog, I'm starting to wonder if YOU aren't the friend in question."

 

Heh. Somebloke, I have almost 1,300 posts on this forum, dating back to way before StrangeWay's arrival. You need only read a few of them to realize I'm nowhere near this situation.

 

A question to the people who think this whole situation is unethical and shady: would you feel differently if the boyfriend was informed that he may very well lose his girlfriend, and that he needs to up his game?

 

Strangeway: when does plan go into effect? I really want to know how this plays out, but I sense it will probably take a while to obtain the evidence.

[StrangeWay]

A question to the people who think this whole situation is unethical and shady: would you feel differently if the boyfriend was informed that he may very well lose his girlfriend, and that he needs to up his game?

 

VERY good question, Fog, and one I would like to know as well....

 

Fog, It just occurred to me that I could play Devils Advocate with this whole thing. I could, when the plan was about to go down, anonymously inform the boyfriend that his relationship was in jeopardy, and at the same time inform the girl that things are about to change, thus all three are in the light about things and can each decide to do something about it.

 

What do you think?

 

Strangeway: when does plan go into effect? I really want to know how this plays out, but I sense it will probably take a while to obtain the evidence.

 

It is still in the evidence gathering mode. It could go alot quicker if I were to pull things out of her to share with the friend. She has been kind of clamming up lately about her relationship, but I think its because she is so tired of using me as a sounding board and a shoulder because she thinks she is becoming a burden which makes her feel all the more miserable. Something is definitely up though, because she doesnt even look herself, and is very withdrawn as of late.

[TheFoglifter]

... inform the boyfriend that his relationship was in jeopardy, and at the same time inform the girl that things are about to change, thus all three are in the light about things and can each decide to do something about it."

 

Are all three REALLY in the light with those vague cryptic messages, or are they just on their toes for something, but not knowing what.

 

Do you think that warning the boyfriend his relationship is in danger would stop him from "taking the bait"?

 

... is definitely up though, because she doesnt even look herself, and is very withdrawn as of late."

 

Maybe the friend doesn't have to do anything at all? Maybe as I said earlier, the bf will ruin his relationship himself?

[annie24]

Fog, It just occurred to me that I could play Devils Advocate with this whole thing. I could, when the plan was about to go down, anonymously inform the boyfriend that his relationship was in jeopardy, and at the same time inform the girl that things are about to change, thus all three are in the light about things and can each decide to do something about it.

 

What do you think?

 

i know the question is for fog, but I would back off and let them play in their own messes. you should stay out of it and focus on your own life. find a nice single girl to date, instead of getting in the middle of this stupid drama.

 

Fog said:

 

Maybe the friend doesn't have to do anything at all? Maybe as I said earlier, the bf will ruin his relationship himself?

 

I agree, stay out far out of the situation. you know the phrase "shooting the messenger." yeah. don't you have something better to do with your time than injecting yourself in this situation?

[StrangeWay]

don't you have something better to do with your time than injecting yourself in this situation?

 

I wasnt the one who injected myself into this, I WAS ASKED TO HELP; And I am her friend, so I was already involved to begin with.

 

You're just being a drama seeker and making this poor woman's life hell. Leave her alone.

 

Her life was hell long before I stepped into the middle of it.

 

People, get a freakin grip already! Making these vague statements about how I am making her life hell without truly knowing the situation just makes you all sound like little sheep following each other around bleating out obscure responses because all you know how to do is "stay out of it, its not your life" and "its wrong because she has a boyfriend" .....So far, those are the prevailing two comments I have heard, and when questioned further, I suddenly go under attack for even taking part of it.

 

Its called LIFE....I realize sometimes ITS NOT FAIR but it is what it is. Why the heck do all of you have to be such mindless sheep? Where is all the passion? What happened to fighting for what you believe in? What happened to confronting things head on instead of brushing it under the carpet? Why are some of you so darn set in making sure she stays in a crappy situation? What gives??!

[annie24]

Its called LIFE....I realize sometimes ITS NOT FAIR but it is what it is. Why the heck do all of you have to be such mindless sheep? Where is all the passion? What happened to fighting for what you believe in? What happened to confronting things head on instead of brushing it under the carpet? Why are some of you so darn set in making sure she stays in a crappy situation? What gives??!

 

I know for a fact that neither Carnelian nor I are dumb mindless sheep And the girl in this situation has free will also. she complains about her boyfriend, yet doesn't leave. sounds to me like she wants to stay, or isn't ready to walk away. I think she is having fun trying to suck you in also. let me give you a word of advice, don't get involved in other people's relationships. it will all blow up. I had 2 friends (a couple) come to me asking me for advice, and I told them to go to couples' counseling. I don't want to get in the middle of that mess, or be forced to "take sides!"

 

As for your questions of where is the passion.... fighting for what you believe in? yes, I am very much for that! for REAL things. like finding the cure for cancer, volunteering in an animal shelter, getting involved in politics, humanitarian causes..... etc..... this just is a silly little love triangle drama, this isn't anything deep, i don't see why you want in on the action

[StrangeWay]

You're just being a drama seeker and making this poor woman's life hell

 

And furthermore...how could I be making her life hell, if she doesnt even know what is going on? NOTHING HAS HAPPENED YET. This was only discussed between me and him. Note that I said the word DISCUSSED. Meaning TALKED. NO ACTION HAS BEEN TAKEN. She has no idea that we have even talked about such things. As far as she is concerned, it is just another day.

 

Now, do you care to inform me on how I am making her life hell?

[StrangeWay]

I think she is having fun trying to suck you in also.

 

Can you explain that statement to me, please?

[annie24]

And furthermore...how could I be making her life hell, if she doesnt even know what is going on? NOTHING HAS HAPPENED YET. This was only discussed between me and him. Note that I said the word DISCUSSED. Meaning TALKED. NO ACTION HAS BEEN TAKEN. She has no idea that we have even talked about such things. As far as she is concerned, it is just another day.

 

Now, do you care to inform me on how I am making her life hell?

 

you've asked if you should confront the boyfriend, and tell him that his gf's love for him is in peril. so, you want to go behind your friend's back and tell her boyfriend her personal secrets. don't you think she would be angry, telling you things in confidence, and then you go blabbing around town, especially to her bf.

 

that does not make you sound like a good friend at all!

[StrangeWay]

for REAL things. like finding the cure for cancer, volunteering in an animal shelter, getting involved in politics, humanitarian causes.....

 

So love or anything asscociated to it is not a real thing?