strikeonbox

I think one of the responses asked how I was able to read the instant messaging between my husband and his ex. I didn't respond because at the time I didn't want to admit that I'd secretly used a keylogger to see if he was cheating. I have some severe trust issues from a previous abusive relationship, and sometimes act impulsively when my fear over being betrayed/hurt again overcomes my logic. So, the first thing I did wrong, here, I think, was to be dishonest in order to find out if he was honest. Somehow that doesn't make sense, and yet, in reality, (and he's said this himself) a dishonest person isn't going to admit a lie - so... Anyway, I did that and I regret that, and I regret not being up front about that. I read the conversation between them and felt threatened and hurt and angry. I got emotional and overreacted and acted impulsively, rather than really figuring out the situation. I guess I wanted some validation of those feelings. The woman in question WAS a former lover and she WAS married at the time, so that did make me feel like, at least at that time, neither of them had respected a committment or been faithful. I guess the story is that she and her husband were separated but living together, but had agreed to see other people. Anyway, I'd always believed (from things he'd told me over time) that she still had an interest in him, and, coming from that perspective, that is how I interpreted it. And, as it turns out, my feelings/intuition on that and interpretation of her motives were accurate. What wasn't accurate was my interpretation of his response and his intentions. Those of you who pointed out that he immediately mentioned he was married and in a way "staved off" the topic by replying with a simple "oh" were right. I was reading his response from the perspective of what those words would mean if they were spoken/written by my abusive ex, and not my current partner. He doesn't/didn't deserve that. He's always been exceedingly honest with me and never given me a reason not to trust him. Sometimes I think that I'm so afraid that he can't be as good as he is that I feel some impulsive need to reassure myself that he is, or to find out that he isn't before I invest decades of my life. That's not fair to him. I'm not sure how to fix that, except to ask for reassurance, keep up the counseling, work on my own issues, and work together to figure out how to have a relationship when one partner has experienced extreme abuse/betrayal/abandonment in the past. I wish we could understand where the other person was coming from. From reading the posts, it looks like we all want that. Something else I left out was that he wasn't the only one who threatened to leave. He threatened to leave if I demanded he end contact with these women, I threatened to leave if he didn't agree to do it. Neither of us meant it, but we both said one of the worst things you can say in a relationship - especially where trust is involved. When I discussed this with him, looking back, I realize I was very emotional and probably not rational. Not a good position to be in during a serious discussion. The Resolution: This woman did lie about his inviting her to visit him recently, as well as about numerous other things. When he realized that she for whatever reason was attempting to hurt our relationship, he immediately ended all contact with her. I guess my position is that there are ex's who are safe and acceptable, and those that aren't. I still agree that it's not okay for a person in a committed relationship to maintain relationships with women/men who want to have a sexual or intimate relationship with them. And I do believe that saying that a situation or behaviour is hurtful and that you would like them to consider changing it for the sake of your feelings and security is not controlling - it's just expressing yourself. Demanding that they do it is controlling. The conversation could have been interpreted in a number of different ways depending on the people involved. I didn't give my husband credit for all of the good things about him, the best being his honesty.

Thanks for all of your advice, particularly the last post. I think that letting him know that I don't want to be in a relationship/marriage where I am being hurt is fair enough, and leaving is fair as well if he chooses to continue behavior without even talking it out or considering options/compromises. I just spoke with the women in question who had many interesting things to say that contradicted everything my husband has told me. She says she never even knew about me! New predicament. Who to believe? Is this why he insisted on maintaining a relationship with her? Supposedly he invited her to visit for 2 weeks in October while I was stranded in NY during a cross country move (to be with him). One last fling while I was safely stranded 100's of miles away? My intuition/instincts tell me to get out now, my love/heart make it hard to do. I still strongly believe that it was wrong of him not to end his relationship with her. I didn't care that he had /has relationships with other women, just not one interested in a sexual/intimate relationship with him, one that did not respect our love or marriage. Why couldn't he put my feelings above hers? Even HE admitted that she still had a sexual/intimate/relationship interest in him - but he felt that because he would never act on it, it was okay to keep a relationship with her. I say that's insane - inviting pain and trouble and eventually affairs and divorce.

He admits that she continues to have a sexual interest in him and has attempted to begin a relationship with him while we were together, so I do not see this request to help her out by living with her for a few weeks as innocent. He claims that since HE would never cheat on me, and she lives far away, that there is no harm in continuing a friendship/relationship with a woman who wants a relationship with him. I say that continuing this relationship IS a form of cheating. As far as her, she was married to and living with her husband when they had a four week fling, and while that was happening she was also sleeping with other men, so she isn't exactly virtous. She dumped him after that. I do try to make our relationship amazing. The thing is, my husband likes to "take care of" people, and Kelly (this woman) likes to be taken care of. I don't mind (in fact I love and appreciate his efforts to take care of me) but I don't want that to be the entire context of our relationship. I don't know what he wants.

Could some MEN respond to this post, so he can see that it isn't just women who might agree with my point of view? And please reply even if you don't agree - I'm reasonable and willing to consider other positions. He thinks that women willl support eachother's viewpoints right or wrong? I know that's not true, as I've been called on things I've been wrong about by both women and men. I haven't slept all night.

I just don't know what to do. I have no desire to control him in the least. I just want to feel safe. I love him. What rights does that give me? I feel like I'm going crazy. He goes on and on about how I want to control him and how he can't bear that, but doesn't he see that this is tearing me up? I don't care if he has female friends, just not former lovers that want him to come stay with them or meet him for sex. He says all that matters is that HE would never do that. I say maintaining contact is like opening Pandora's box, and that my feelings and pain should matter more than whatever hurt feelings they might have over his ending his relationships with them. He constantly tells me how his relationships with them are nothing, and yet he won't give them up! How do I come accross as not trying to control him, but persuade him for all the right reasons to give these women up. If he wanted them, why is he with me? I've been hurt before, and this is like deja vu. We even went to a marriage counselor who said to him "why not just voluntarily give them up"? Then no one will be forcing you to do it. He is wonderful in so many ways, but he is hurting me like crazy with this. I don't think he knows how much this is hurting/frightening me. I love him. Why can't he understand? I don't know what to do!

I don't care if he has female friends, just not ones that are interested in him romantically or sexually - and asking a former lover who is in a committed, long term relationship with another woman to "come take care of you for two weeks" seems to express an interest beyond friendship. He claims she was joking. I feel nauseated. If it was a joke, it was inappropriate. If it wasn't, to me it seems they both value the "possibility" of being with eachother more than they value our relationship/love/committment and marriage. I'm hurt, and he's angry. Please help. Does it seem to you, objectively, that she's interested in him for more than friendship? And does it seem to you, objectively, that she respects our relationship and marriage?

I've asked my long-term boyfriend/partner/housemate and now husband to end his relationships with two former lovers, both of whom have expressed recent desires/intentions to be with him intimately. He initially agrees but then gets angry and says I am "controlling" him. I don't think that what I want is unreasonable. I woud and have done the same. Recently, one of them sent this instant message to him (although he intitiated it): northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 3:53:23 PM): hey you mkve (2/14/2006 3:55:01 PM): Hi northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 3:55:09 PM): what's new? mkve (2/14/2006 3:55:32 PM): Nothing much northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 3:56:15 PM): well jeez, haven't talked to you in months and that's all you gotta say? mkve (2/14/2006 3:58:38 PM): I sent u an email and told you most of what has been happening with me northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 3:58:44 PM): when? mkve (2/14/2006 3:59:13 PM): 2 weeks ago northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 3:59:23 PM): hmm, i never got it mkve (2/14/2006 4:00:29 PM): I live alone with the boys now and i was in an accident on a 95 northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 4:01:05 PM): a 95? northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 4:01:08 PM): what's that? northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 4:01:19 PM): can you send it to me again? the e-mail? mkve (2/14/2006 4:01:59 PM): A oc transpo bus northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 4:02:12 PM): are you ok? northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 4:02:19 PM): what happened? mkve (2/14/2006 4:05:25 PM): Messed up my right leg. Whem u told me u were in the states i had been trying to get ahold of u to see if wanted to take care of me for a bit lol northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 4:05:51 PM): i think my wife would have a problem with that. mkve (2/14/2006 4:06:59 PM): She wasnt your wife then lol northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 4:07:06 PM): oh northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 4:07:21 PM): well, how are you doing now? mkve (2/14/2006 4:08:19 PM): Walking with a cane but better northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 4:08:36 PM): when did this all happen? mkve (2/14/2006 4:08:56 PM): Nov northernman_cdn (2/14/2006 4:09:04 PM): so, where is Vic? mkve (2/14/2006 3:42:23 PM): He lives with friends I have a hard time with her asking him to come "take care of her" when she knew that we were living together and had been in a long term relationship for years (whether we were married or not). She is his former lover. I also think her response about how "I wasn't her wife then, lol" was inappropriate. And his response? "I think my wife would have a problem with that"? That makes it seem like he would, but his "jealous unreasonable wife" wouldn't allow it. And his response to her comment about our not being married then? "Oh." ???? What is that? Why couldn't he say that he's in relationship now and didn't think that would be appropriate, or that he loves me and wouldn't want to hurt me, or something like that? In the end, he asks about her husband (who she was married to and living with when they had their breif love affair), almost as if he's wondering if she's available. Am I reading into this? Do I have a right to be hurt? I have asked him to tell her in kind but no uncertain terms that he is married, committed, and not available to take care of her or anything else. He agreed, reluctantly, but is now angry at me for trying to "control" him. I feel he is holding onto her, for whatever reason. I'm at my wit's end. Please help!

I totally agree with the first poster. I didn't approach it in the healthiest of ways. Once I calmed down and tried to explain the basis for my fear and insecurity and what I was asking from him and why, by then he was too upset to listen and told me he would consider my words when I was more stable - being a day, a week, a month - which made me more upset and hurt as I felt helpless and rejected. We've talked at length about my insecurities and fears stemming from my former abusive marriage and about working through this together. I asked him to read Judith Hermann's book, "Trauma and Recovery" to help him understand the severe trust issues and aftermath of such abuse. We also discuss this in counseling and how to deal with it. At the same time, I am still hurt. I will try your advice and see what happens. It just hurts, because in my past marriage, "friends and buddies" turned into (or already were) lovers and confidants and those relationships continued throughout our marriage and even after, despite his constant denial. And maybe I'm letting unimportant details bug me based on past experience, but here goes: Any guys out there who have something to say in this? The way I see it is that I'm the one that married him, loves him, sleeps with him, cares for him, invests in him, and have committed my life to him. Shouldn't my feelings matter more than some woman he used to cyber with and some woman he had a four week relationship with years ago? Would you guys give up internet chat buddies (who you have a history with) for your wife? Even he admits that the main reason for internet chat between men and women is flirtation and relationship seeking, although he swears this is not the case with them. Mind me, I'm no angel. I can be emotional, insecure, angry, tearful, and I did spy on him and block those women from his chat/e-mail. Later, however, I did admit that that was terribly wrong and a violation of his trust and privacy and asked him to change his passwords and insisted that we discuss this with our psychologist. Also, we constantly argue about whether she (the second woman) lied about being pregnant. I think if he admits to himself that she told a terrible hurtful lie, he would have to stop thinking of her as some angel who suffered because of him. What's the word with what you know on the chances of her actually having been pregnant? He talks about women being gold-diggers and manipulators and such, but then crumbles when he talks about this "pregnancy". Even his own family and friends didn't believe she was pregnant. Maybe this is off topic, but I'd like some opinions here.

Okay. So I found out that my new husband still "chats" with a number of women - but when I reviewed the chat archives (with his permission) I found nothing amiss. Later I reviewed the chat archives WITHOUT his permission, I still found nothing to indicate he was cheating - but he was exceptionally kind and patient with them, the way he is with me - expressing concern, etc. He is a kind and empathetic person and that is one of the reasons I married him. I don't mind that he's kind to other people. However, also I discovered that he still chats with two women in particular that I would prefer he not remain in contact with. One is a woman with whom he used to have cybersex with prior to our relationship and marriage - a woman who has sex on webcam and is, in polite terms, what I consider slutty. She had previously expressed an extreme interest in visiting my husband (before he was my husband) to have sex with him (and had even suggested a threesome between us), and he with her. In fact, long before we were married but while we were dating, he told me that he would never allow her to visit because of his longstanding interest in a sexual encounter with her. Apparently now she is with another man and rarely chats with him, and since he has never cheated and would never cheat, he feels it is appropriate to maintain a relationship with her (chat online and on the telephone with her). I say that because his relationship with her causes me what I consider legitimate fear and hurt and insecurity and discomfort that it would be a reasonable sacrifice for him to severe his relationship with her. It's not like they are old friends or good buddies - they'd never even actually met in person. He also continues to chat with a woman with whom he had a sexual relationship with - and this women still wants a romantic relationship with him. She went so far as to tell him that she was pregnant in order to get him to stay with her. This would not normally bother me, but they only dated for 4 weeks (and you don't fall into a real love relationship in that period of time anyway) and she was 38 at the time (past the age of easy fertility) and they only had sex on three different days (although multiple times on each day) and because he (my husband) never orgasmed during those times - I find it extremely unlikely that she was pregnant by him - considering the fact that she was sleeping with other men AND still living with her husband at the same time. I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that women living with their husbands don't occasionally have sex with them. That and the fact that he's never gotten ANY woman pregnant ever, even in relationships where he didn't use protection. When it came down to her never becoming visibly pregnant or having an actual baby, she cried to him that she "lost the baby" and gave him a guilt trip to last a lifetime. It bothers me that she (in my opinion) lied to him about the pregnancy in an effort to trap him into a relationship, and it bothers me that he believed her and still has guilt over it and puts her on a pedestal that I don't believe she belongs on. Maybe it's a "masculinity" thing, needing to impregnate someone to prove your virility or something, even though he doesn't go for that type of thing. Anyway, I asked him to stop chatting and talking with these two women (I have no problem with him talking to other people) but I don't want him talking to women he had long periods of cybersex with or women who still want a sexual or romantic relationship with him, no matter how he promises he would never do that. I got so upset when he refused and said that I was trying to "control" him and tell him who he could be friends with that I got on his e-mail/IM and blocked these women. He immediately found out, grew even more angry, added them back onto his lists, and made statements such as "if this is the way you are going to be then I don't know if we can be together." I responded that I couldn't live in a relationship where my husband had chat/phone relationships with women who posed what I feel is a legitimate threat to our marriage. I admit to some insecurity and maybe I'm wrong - but I voluntarily started individual counseling and admitted everything and also scheduled couples counseling for us to deal with this. Am I wrong? What would other women do in this situation? Men? What would you do if it were your wife/girlfriend asking you to end the chat/phone relationships? I was very wrong to go into his e-mail/IM and block them - I feel terrible. I feel like I'm tearing us apart with my insecurity, but do I have a right to be insecure in this circumstance or no? I'll abide by whatever the majority decides, as well as by the advice of the psychologists.

I left my abusive husband almost six years ago. I ended several relationships since that time, knowing that I had personal issues to work on due to the severe abuse and aftermath. I saw psychologists, psychiatrists, counselors - went to support groups - the whole shabang. I met a really wonderful guy who I really love and who is the complete opposite of my ex. The problem is that the old abuse is killing us. I react to situations as if I was still with my abuser. If a situation is at all familiar I become insecure, afraid, terrified of being hurt, betrayed, or abandoned. I get angry, resentful, withdraw, or become jealous and needy. It's driving us apart, but I don't know what to do. I don't want to lose him. I don't know that he understands why this is happening. We both agreed to go to a counselor, but I'm still afraid. Will I ever be able to trust again, relax again, have self-esteem again? I'm so easily frightened and hurt and threatened. Are there websites that deal specifically with this issue? Books? Other resources? Resources for him to help him understand and work through this with me? Please help!