maritalbliss86

Most communication is non-verbal. So I'd be surprised if she can't feel the anger and resentment and that he's not exactly happy... if it were something in the legal world she would have been given what's called, "constructive notice," - it's up to her to pay attention to those signs that the relationship is deteriorating. Plus he says she shuts down or goes into her shell when he tries to talk about things. So I think at some level she doesn't want to know or change, which is normal for people in denial.

So I had an interesting conversation with a sweet friend the other day. She is so interesting in her vast life experience! Been to other countries, has lived in multiple types of financial situations, done amazing humanitary feats with her husband, and I admire so much about her. But wow LOL! This particular conversation was out of the blue. She brought up something that we weren't remotely talking about... and then proceeded to tell me she wasn't judgy anymore about it (but she had been she said). It's actually something I could intimately relate to and have dealt with, so I just nodded in agreement and listened to her go on this monologue of thoughts of judging people like this etc, and now not judging them lol. Here I am sitting there thinking, "OK... Ok... " Hmmmm 🙂 I mean I could have given her a confession of sorts and let her know I'm the type she used to judge LOL. But there's no way I wanted to do that and reveal that part of myself. Maybe if we were a million times closer and I actually trusted her, sure, but I save those parts of me for only people who have earned that trust over time... lots and lots of time... years to be honest. She's still relatively a newer friend in the area we've moved to, and it would take years for me to feel comfortable enough to go that deep. I think she understood this though, and wanted to put this info about her not being judgey anymore out there, so I could hear it. It was so odd! She even admitted that most people don't talk about these things and apologized for bringing it up, to which I was like, "no it's fine, it's something I do understand." And left it at that. I used to be 100% Open though. I actually took a test in my early 20's and the test revealed I was 100% Open, which somewhat surprised me back then. I definitely lacked discretion and any kind of wisdom in who to confide in, though, so I've learned the hard way people just take advantage of that kind of naive openness. I've changed over the years and am kind of like a vault now, very guarded but I think in a healthy way. I'm 100% open with my husband and family members I trust and friends that I've known for a number of years, but not new people or people I don't actually know for years. My father in law used to try to get me to divulge my political thoughts on different topics, he'd really try to dig it out what I personally thought. But I knew we held different beliefs, and to avoid an unnecessary argument, or him holding my personal beliefs against me later on, I lied and kept telling him I, "didn't have an opinion on that," and would politely change the subject. He would try some more but eventually give up. When I'd refuse to give in to his desire to get into frivolous arguments over things like weed or politics, it felt like I was respecting myself and having good boundaries 🙂. Not allowing someone to force you into an uncomfortable conversation, or get info they'd possibly use against you later on, feels empowering because it is ❤️. It oddly reminded me of my father in law, the way my friend was going on about this subject that is kind of taboo. It felt like she was trying to get a confession out of me... although I'm sure she probably wasn't, but being so out of the blue and taboo made it curious she risked bringing it up only to let me know she, "doesn't judge," those women anymore. I think I responded well 🙂. It's interesting.... 🙂

I've seen a lot of couples, "go along with," something terrible (lack of sex, affairs, in-laws problems, money issues, drug or alcohol addictions, etc.) for decades, wishing the partner would change or the problem would go away, maybe they hope for better? I don't know. LOL yea right! I don't think so. Again... in reality, a lot of people, "go along with," something for decades. It doesn't mean they were or are OK with it. I will say though the longer one partner doesn't fix their issue, no matter what it is, the harder it is to stay married to them without building up resentment or regrets etc.

Oh ok I've seen that exact scenario happen with one that my husband's coworkers. Had an accident on the way to work or coming home, and they denied help somehow even though my husband said they technically should have granted it. His family had to fight it and he thinks they eventually won but it was a pain having to fight them so long. I'm praying for his recovery 🙏

I would be too. Would he get an OK disability pay etc? I've thought of that before for my husband's line of work... if he becomes disabled, we can make it based on the benefits he'd get (they're very very good) and that gives me a little more peace. That is SO encouraging to hear! I hope they are right! I'm glad the doctor is so positive, usually they give the worst possible outcome, so if this one isn't hopefully that is a VERY good sign. Good God that sounds so awful! I'm so so sorry Seraphim. I'm sure you have access to the right meds and it's just the newness of all of this probably. I would definitely have to visit my counselor if that were me 😞 it sounds very dangerous to be driving!

Oh ugh!!!!!! I'm so sorry Seraphim. I've had reactions like that, too, where watching someone you love in pain or struggling just causes you to break down in public. It's just too much to see them struggle or where they're at in their struggle. I'm praying for him. I know it takes time with a TBI, but the journey seems long 😞

I think it has to be her that chooses to get help though, this sounds like a lot more than just not orgasming... it sounds like deep sexual hang-ups she'd need to address in counseling with a professional... and his hands are tied - he can't force her to fix her sexual hangups. I think finding a solution involves figuring out what or who can change something to solve the issue. Not a blame game, just simply whose responsibility is it to fix an issue. If I had a major depressive disorder and it affected everything in my life, it'd be my responsibility to get help - especially if it was negatively affecting my husband, sex life, and children. If I refused to get help and expected everyone to carry on as normal, it would put them all in a very bad place. To me, it seems like she's doing that (but to a much lesser extent as it only affects their sex life). She can probably fix this if she really wanted. I mean you'd have to be honest with her 🙂 let her know how this affects you, and then she'd have to be willing to go to counseling for sexual hang-up issues (as this sounds like much more than just lack of orgasming... ). Hoping for the best, if you talked to her, would she go?

Wow that does sound like invading your space lol! Goodness! How is your hubby doing?

It's interesting you read it that way. The way I read his in-between the lines is that it probably always has bothered him to some degree, and then has gotten worse with time. Her lack of wanting to communicate openly about sex or feeling comfortable with her own husband doing different things is what is shocking to me - it's not healthy or normal. Cutting off one's partner from deep sexual intimacy, and not even being able to talk about it, does sound weirdly cruel on her part. A great lady I used to listen to who helped couples through things like this usually tried to get the wife to see how her not helping her sexual issues negatively affects her husband, too, which isn't fair to expect him to put up with it long-term. It's something that *must* be worked through, or she's risking him divorcing her, or having affairs eventually etc. Think about it -- if it's her sexual issue that's preventing her from feeling comfortable, being able to talk about it, etc. then it's her responsibility to get professional help for her issue. When women refuse to go to counseling and sort these issues out, it puts the husband in an awful position of feeling hurt, unfulfilled and like there's no answer.... So I can see how that would grow from being something minor to a major resentment over time.

Can you explain what she does that isn't compassionate? Not talking about sex in an honest, open way, does seem really odd to me... and of course that would harm your sexual and marriage relationship. Does she just refuse to talk about it, have you ever tried telling her things you want to try or do? Has it not gone well when you've tried before? Or do you just pick up on her overall not really wanting/craving you, and you want someone who craves you all the time (I understand that - I don't think most men would want to be in a marriage like that).

Right I do agree on his unfulfilled needs being a core value. But he was talking about having it all meaning a wife and affair partner - a kind of irrational utopia that just doesn't exist if you know what I mean. So I likened it to if I wanted to homeschool and work full-time, and, "have it all." But I get it... his need of a fulfilling sex life it sounds like, among maybe other things going on, is something he shouldn't compromise on, but did, and now wants out.

I think when people think in a type of extreme, "have it all," kind of way, it makes living life harder than it needs to be. I mean... just for me personally, I can't really, "have it all," in some respects regarding work life focus because I made the choice to have 4 kids and stay home and even homeschool them, which is a lot more involved than just staying home while they're young to keep them out of daycare. Homeschool is like a huge undertaking if they decide to go through high school with it. And I leave it up to them each year (and our personal finances, how my husband feels about it etc.). But there's no doubt it, "holds me back," from being my best at work right now. And I *loved** working in the field I was in, it was my passion so giving it up was very hard in a way, and easier in other ways because I saw immediately how wonderful it was to be home with my kids. If I really wanted to work full time, we could figure that out and I'd have *that* special thing . But then I wouldn't get to be teaching them or being with our 2 yr old (and I wouldn't want him in daycare), which I usually greatly enjoy (I mean kids... preteens LOL... it's not always pretty 😂). So no... a person really can't, "have it all," without having to somewhat sacrifice *something.* No one I think, "has it all." Usually you decide what that something is you'd rather give up for that time period, and then because you CHOSE it, you find happiness in your choice and live a basically happy life. ... Because you both chose this marriage, I think deciding if you want to stay in it longterm and maybe be unfulfilled (?) which I can see is a risky outcome long-term.... you may get more bitter and angry and destroy yourself from the inside, OR sit her down, talk like responsible adults (I think going to counseling just to have a mediator see how she responds would be *great*) and figure out how to end it responsibly? Betterwithout said he's making a secret plan to exit after the kids are out. To me that sounds smart and adult-like and responsible... but maybe he's spent more time thinking about this and has more experience etc. I do think if you sit her down and tell her, she may end it herself because honestly what woman would want to stay in a marriage where the man is secretly planning to end it and already falling in love with other women? She should end it, technically, she's living a lie and telling her may finally open her eyes to see her reality she's in right now. So if she has any self-respect, once you sit her down and are brutally honest with her, there's a huge chance she'll beat you to the punch with filing for divorce. Just something to think about.

Can you add the link? I'm curious to see what others are saying and if there are more details there

This is what I'm confused about... from what you've described, she sounds like she enjoys it and you both just lack good communication skills (?). I would have written exactly what MyLolita wrote.... Is it something more than this I'm guessing? It feels like we aren't seeing the whole picture here.

I think, "fault," is something that isn't one-sided. Most people probably get married for the wrong reasons, and then sort themselves out later on once they're mature enough to see what they did. They either make more mistakes, like affairs in my opinion, or they self-correct and figure out how to either make it work well and passionately, or how to end it responsibly. I do think you walked into something - chose a marriage - that ultimately harmed her in the long-run. I can see both of you made serious mistakes in marrying each other. I think going to counseling would be helpful to work through that choice - ... like why didn't you care that you were essentially preventing her from finding someone who would have maybe truly been uber passionate about her, by agreeing to marriage when you didn't really want it? Because marrying someone you're less than thrilled about ultimately takes them off the market for finding a better, more loving partner. Her whole life will be altered negatively by this... that's something to ponder and work through on your side. And I can also see how her pushing for marriage, talking you into it, it sounds like, was her forcing something she never should have forced, for both your sakes. I can see how her being in denial, marrying for more than likely the wrong reasons, isn't working out the way she planned with you staying in your, "lane," and forcing happiness. She would probably rather you pretend, like she does, that all is well. When will you tell her that you're essentially falling in love with another woman? I just don't think people in denial usually take responsibility for their choices, which is maddening if you've ever had to deal with one 😕 . So you will be painted as 100% at fault here (but please update us with her response to know if she is more adult about it! I'd love to know!). Will she see that she chose this, with all your red flags and needing to be persuaded into marrying her? Will she see that she set up this marriage with a seriously depressed man, maybe expecting he'd change and suddenly be different from how he was when she dated him? Will she see that she's not willing to live out the consequences of hers and your choice, which basically are: you having affairs (even emotionally) on her? I don't think she'll be able to, "see," any of that. I think people like this take the easy way out and try to pin all the blame on the man/woman.

I wonder if that's really the case here? She sounds more passive than that. I think, to some degree, ignorance really can be a kind of bliss for people who choose denial... so she is probably what he describes - very happy, and lives her life without a care in the world that he's extremely unhappy in their marriage. Would OP describe her as constantly trying to, "win him over," in the past or ever in their relationship? I don't know?

See my theory is that she married him with this knowledge though. She knew he wasn't that into her before marriage... she knew he was very depressed and not in a good place. Usually women can feel if a man isn't that into them and they're having to *drive* the relationship to the next step... constantly. Being in denial, she chose to not, "see," all the red flags, and I'm sure he had many. Should they divorce over it? I wouldn't recommend that myself, but this is a lot more than just him falling out of love. He probably never was in love with her, and she married him anyway, and took this risk on of marrying someone she knew was in deep deep depression already, wasn't that into marriage and says it wasn't his idea - she decided it would be a GOOD idea to take him on, with all his flaws. Being in denial causes lots of problems for the one in denial. My problem with it is that they rarely take responsibility for their choices, and expect *everyone* else to agree they're the victim of their choices.

Oh man... your situation sounds exactly like what I went through 12 years ago with our oldest child! It never got better just FYI 🙂 and it *did* affect the way other family members treated us to the point where we couldn't really go to their events, their collective behavior was so awful. Eventually... after many years and a few estrangements from his family, my husband has kind of just let them go. We are the bad guys. And we no longer care 😉.

There's a really great song about this... the roles would be reversed in this situation (male female), but it's so good

Oh! And it worked! He said he eventually stopped bringing it up, "so that it wasn't causing pain for her." So she gets to act like he's a robot without human emotional needs, gets to play the victim, gets to claim he was already about to cheat anyway, and puts everything on him. That's what people in denial do. They never take the blame and always see themselves as a victim. Maybe it's a mental illness but I don't think so. I think at some level, they know what they're doing. They just don't have the integrity to admit it.

Random rant I REALLy don't like people who put their spouses in this situation, and then try to act like they didn't know anything was wrong the whole time. I get it... they were in denial. But I also think denial is an UGLY choice to avoid things like Kindness, Love, Compassion for their partner etc. I think it's just ugly, divisive and mean. I think they cause their marriage partners so much emotional trauma, and then they turn around and act like they didn't just have this discussion a few days ago, get emotional and cry (manipulation tactics) and make their partner apologize for bringing up an issue at all!!! It's like the epitome of gas-lighting and mental abuse. Grrrrrr makes me angry. If my husband did this it would not end well LOL. And yes there have been times where I've listened to him and his deepest needs and made changes to grow our marriage. If he was constantly having to tell me he was deeply unhappy, that would be something huge I'd want to deal with - TOGETHER. Not just flippantly, "forget," (yea right lady I know you didn't forget) and then cry and force him to feel bad for bringing it up again. The reason why she does the crying and pulls the emotional card of how it's hurting her he's bringing up his feelings, is so that he will STOP bringing it up. Don't men see this? I guess not 🙂 And I HATE that optimists get such a bad rap LOL... I get it that being optimistic comes across as being dim-witted, or in denial, but a lot of research into the science behind optimism actually shows the opposite! Optimists have alllll kinds of benefits in life. They live longer, they have better health, they have better energy overall that gets them through difficulties that would crush other people. But they aren't in denial 🙂.

So what I've personally seen when a woman has essentially mentally blocked her husband's needs/desires is that they continue to react with shock and surprise again... even though you've been talking to her about this for *years* at this point off and on, how you've felt about the marriage etc. I'm guessing she's not going to be OK with you having an apartment for a trial separation. And as soon as you tell her there's someone else you're attracted to, she's going to put all her energy in trying to prove you're already cheating physically and only got that apartment to be able to cheat easier 😞. Maybe you need to see a divorce attorney so you can make sure getting the apartment wouldn't just make her accusations easier? Maybe try to plan out a long-term plan of how to exit this because with a person that is this in denial, it won't be easy and she will make you out to be the villain I think. Again... that's not being an, "eternal optimist," an optimist is usually grounded in reality and prepares for things ahead and fixes things before they get this bad. You've given her those opportunities to hear you out repeatedly for years, but she's OK with your needs not being met. It's not that she thinks nothing is wrong, you've told her repeatedly that something is very very wrong, it's that she doesn't care enough about your needs to actually do something or change. Please update us on how she reacts... I'm curious to see if she'll make you out to be the villain again, claim this is a blindsiding etc.

I think this is the main problem. You've brought up how you feel about the marriage many times, she plays dumb and shocked each time (that is NOT being optimist... Batya is right that it's playing games with you mentally, and being in denial about what you've told her... many times now). She doesn't *want* to hear you. She doesn't want to change anything longterm it sounds like. When you, "fixed," the marriage last time 3 years ago, it was *you* doing all the work right? That isn't how things should be. I believe BOTH partners should hear each other out, make changes if possible and meet each other's needs. You alone can't fix your marriage by yourself... it's a partnership, and she's checked out mentally long ago. That's my opinion though... I get it that people feel sorry for her. I don't feel sorry for men or women who are in denial and play mental games with their partners. I think it's mean, passive aggressive, and puts the partner in a horrible situation where they feel like the villain because the partner who refuses to see reality constantly plays the victimized role to avoid having to actually DO anything to help the situation. Going to counseling so that those conversations can be mediated (which I think Batya suggested?) would help your wife to be forced to confront what she's being doing to you mentally for years now. It's almost like gas-lighting you (which is mental abuse) when you've told her sooooo many times how you feel, what you'd like changed, and then she, "forgets," and, "gets emotional," forcing you to apologize for even bringing up your concerns and feelings? That's not good OP... I do believe it's a form of mental abuse towards you in denying your reality and making you feel trapped.

Our oldest is part of a singing group with the youth at church ... He was in another one when we lived elsewhere and he really likes singing. This one is great though, the woman leading it is really teaching them how to sing. Just really neat!

Wow I didn't know that about the testosterone how interesting 🤔..... Maybe that was the something **else** factor I was picking up on ? I don't know but they are attractive, even if they don't think they are. I found out years ago that my husband's job makes him produce more testosterone than normal, which was funny because it explained a lot lol 😂❤️.