17 Year Split / The Mistakes / How To Progress?

Hi all,

New to the forum and my first post, hope to both contribute and get advice on my own situation. I will do my best first to summarise the past 17 years as "briefly as possible":

My now wife and I got together at 16 years old, met at high school and fell madly in love with each other. I was a very shy and un-confident guy, where she is a more happy person but equally as shy. But it clicked and we both really enjoyed each others company, Id do anything for her and often upset my parents just to see this girl, her parents were warm and welcoming from the very start.

We continued studies and after an argument with her parents she moved out, but given her circumstances I chose to move out too, to help her financially and to be in her company. Times were hard but we both worked and did the best we could, I stopped studying to earn more money (pretty well paid job at the time), supporting us and our future. After her studies she got stuck in a career she wasnt ever happy in, but we managed and enjoyed our time.

Looking back now at us during this time, I was very reserved, didnt want to go out and do much where she was the opposite, but we got used to this. Id be very sensitive, sexually needy, often feeling stressed and overwhelmed with life, finances, juggling my interests and making time for her. I was happy with us but I wasnt happy in life, I wanted to still give her the world but at that time I did not know what was wrong.

As time goes on, somehow the idea of a Sugar Daddy comes into play, I forget how but its something my girlfriend is interested in for money not sex. Me being this passive and easy going guy, I share my concerns saying that you dont get a Sugar Daddy without sex but I allow her to explore this as I can see it has her attention and seems to make her happy. As odd as this sounds her parents are aware of this, a strict no sex but meet up with other guys scenario. Only now looking back do I realise that I was not happy with this, I was jealous and more insecure, but its happened now. The relationship continues between us, we have amazing sex, very into each other, but still Im this oversensitive, low self esteem guy where she wants to do things in life but lacks the money or my motivation to do so.

Time goes on, I start to notice shes very flirty and friendly with her male colleagues at work, she never had any intention of doing anything but I notice she messages, calls them a lot, still seeing these so called Sugar Daddies from time to time. I then take a job in the Middle East which she didn’t want me to take.

My stay in the ME gets extended, and I want her to come out permanently with me rather than come out for the odd few weeks here and there. We realise we need to marry to do this, so I fly back to the UK to get a wedding organised in 2 weeks, it was hectic and stressful but we pull it off for a fantastic day (much to my families disappointment and disapproval). She drops her job, then spends some time out there with me (the processing and paperwork is a joke so her permanent stay / visa never actually got instated before I leave the ME). Whilst shes out there and off work we both discuss trying for a baby, this happens right away and our baby is due Dec 2011. This is where I now fall into a dark place, the day my son is born I throw my back out, Im in agony and unable to help my wife, my mood, focus and self esteem take a huge knock and this then continues for a number of years (all good now though!).

Im off work now but stuck in my compound apartment in the ME just trying to get better, my wife and I still skype when shes back in the UK and somehow somebody from my original job comes into contact with her. She tells me all the details, what it is was, this friend of mine at my old work saw a picture of my wife and little did I know he was attracted to her (no surprise really, shes a good looking girl). Long story short, given the fact Im in the ME, the fact my wife is lonely looking after our son, I tell her about how the idea of her seeing this guy excites me (its true I cant lie, but at the same time I felt this would make her happy where she is in life). She is a little reluctant but they hook up, they do eventually have sex a few times and she tells me all the details. It was really exciting to hear, but at the same time my ego did take a hit, it motivated me to get myself back on my feet, in shape and into a better place in life.

Due to my back problems I leave my job in the ME, my wife continues to fly back and forth with our son, but the last visit my wife flies back to the UK for good as she cant take my complaining and frustration with my situation (being off work in constant pain), I fly back not long after that indefinitely to the UK. After 3 years of being in the ME its a long road to readjust to UK life. Life at that point is tough, Im less sociable due to my pains, Im more agitated and touchy, the relationship is in a bad place. Somehow I muster up the courage to go back into work still with a very bad back (herniated disc / chronic pains), the job I take is back with the same company that sent me to the ME but working in the UK, the job is extremely stressful, lots of hours and my management team essentially bully the staff, working at this role for 2 / 3 years destroys my confidence, I develop IBS, severe anxiety (didnt realise at the time). However the relationship continues, my wife is back at work and making new friends, hates her job, begins getting close to one of her colleagues (just as friends). I should add that shes only seeing the one "Sugar Daddy" now, there were 2, I wouldnt consider them rich or a stereotypical "SD", theyre just older guys, not married with a bit of money. The relationship with this one "SD" begins to get sexual, with my consent, but the guy is completely unable to satisfy any of my wifes needs, she literally rules and detests the guy. But continues to meet up as its an escape from her day to day life, perhaps misses the fact we cant do things or spend the quality time together like we used to.

This job that Im at now and I hate, there is a girl who reminds me exactly of my wife; shes good looking, flirty, similar frame, lovely voice. We get talking a lot and I realise that I am very attracted to her. Like my wife, we speak openly about sex and the sexual interest in our lives, she still meets with one of the two "Sugar Daddies", I tell her about this girl at my work, shes talking to these guys from her current work. Its all a bit messy at this stage looking back, the mistake I make now is I start to message this girl from my work. At the same time Im working very very long hours at work to help pay for a late honeymoon to Mauritus and a family break to Bulgaria. During a nightshift during these long weeks, a friend of hers from her work place comes by the house, I know about this and am not happy with the situation. Next morning I come home after the nightshift and my wife leaps on me, shes excited to see me which is very out of character given our current circumstances. I check her phone (first time Ive ever done this), and she slept with this guy last night. My world collapses, I eventually confront her and we both break down, she says she was vulnerable, lonely, she made a mistake and said not to take her back. I look at my actions, my choices and feel that working through this together is the best option as Ive not been there for her, I love her far too much to end it like this even though I’m hurt. We are at hour honeymoon having a great time, and somehow I end up messaging this girl from my work, were flirting a bit, and little to my knowledge, my wife spots the messages. I move jobs again end of the year, something brand new, better paid and now permanent work rather than contract based, we move back into our family home also (we moved out for the move to the ME and put the house on rent), so lots of major changes in life. But I still attend the Xmas do from my old place where this girl will be, shes drunk and definitely up for sex that night, she tries to put it on me but I do not have sex (I was very tempted). But we begin messaging again after this, my wife sees the messages and she is heart broken, we take a break from the relationship at this stage, really have to think about my decisions. Time goes by and we work at things, this girl crops up again, I plan to meet her "just for lunch" as friends as she also has changed jobs and is near to me. I had the chance to tell my wife about this, but I opt not to because I feel its innocent, again she spots the messages, and whilst nothing flirty is said, she can tell were both excited to meet up. The relationship again takes a nose dive, and by this time the trust is gone (at the time didnt know).

The relationship just continues at this point, my anxiety, stress management is still in need of work, financially were in a fantastic place, life seems to be going well ignoring all the other stuff going on. My wife has a new male friend now, a female friends cousin who Ive never heard of. They talk a lot, he is flirty and my wife tells me he is into her, he begins talking about a Swingers website. My wife explores this and lets me know about it, we begin using this to spice up our marriage, she meets a few guys and she does have sex with them with my consent. Looking back, there was some choices she made during that time I was a little uncomfortable with (and I voiced the concerns) but we enjoy the experience, in hindsight, the relationship is now built upon the need for other people rather than being happy just in us.

Flash forward, my wife falls pregnant again, this was not entirely planned by us but I feel it was what she wanted even though I said I didnt want more children (this caused some issues between us), we find out its twins, we go through a bad pregnancy, lots of ups and downs in the relationship but have two healthy children. Life here gets more tough, we are both stressed, overwhelmed, I mentally shut down to the point my anxiety and stress are at their worst. Whilst I didnt know I felt this way, looking back Im also suffering with depression. This goes on and on, Im unhappy with my job, the fact I dont feel my life is how I wanted it to be and I then find messages on my wifes phone from various guys. Shes using the Swingers site to find guys. I know the relationship is in the worst state ever and I just say to her that this is pretty much over by that point. She doesnt fight and says thats fine, I move my stuff out and move back in with my parents.

About my wife and my family, my family have supported me throughout my choices in life but have never been happy, they have never really respected my wife and I have never really shielded her from my family and their negative views.

With the split, my wife and I begin talking, talking about our relationship and how we felt. How I was unhappy with her seeing and talking to these guys, how I now realise my childhood is the reason I was so negative, the anxiety, depression, poor stress management. We both seek counselling and begin working at ourselves. The more we talk the more I realise how bad the relationship was, amongst all the emotion and love, sacrifice for each other we made I can see where it went wrong, I was not emotionally supportive, I was not outgoing or positive enough. I’ve dragged her down, but she also was not open and true about her feelings at certain points in her life. She was not too comfortable with hooking up with that guy from my old work (she did it for me, which is ironic cause I did it for her), the girl at my work which I was messaging, it sent her insane and she lost a lot of trust, she was checking my phone during the middle of the night. My parents and their views on us and my wife herself, its made my wife feel insecure, she changed her ways and acted in a particular manner to fit in, she did it for me.

At this point I feel like the relationship, through all the amazing and happy times (cause there has been a lot of ups) has never been true, we have never been honest. I feel with us talking, we can both really work at us to better the situation, theres a LOT of crap in the past and it wont go away, but in the 1st month of the split I feel like a new man, Im facing life and the challenges they bring, I feel positive and optimistic and she can see this.

But she is still messaging one guy who she met on this swinger site. Hes a few years older than us, has been through a breakup (has one kid), hes a big guy, confident, very much into the things me and my wife are into, saying all the right things. He basically is the guy my wife always wanted me to be and they speak daily, they have met up a couple times. Sexual chemistry, attention, the spark, its all there. And for this reason my world is crushed, my new positive nature remains but daily I feel upset and hurt by this guy. I find it hard to sleep or not think about her, Ive been keeping tabs on her and this guy and its driving me insane, its not doing me any good but I dont know why, I just cant stop focusing on them.

Last we spoke, she said she disconnected from me a long time ago. She loves me but not in love with me, she feels we will be better as friends and just focus on ourselves and kids. Whilst I know her point of view, I feel that given all our issues being in a relationship with her, it would be very very different with the level of openness and honesty between us. But she likes this guy, shes focusing on herself and progressing her career, she doesnt want me around to distract her. I get her choice but it hurts so, so bad. She feels bad for messaging this guy as its hurting me, but the advice her friends and counsellor have given are, “why should you feel bad”. She has taken this on board and sticks by her choice. I don’t argue with this, its just not like her, its hard to digest.

The chemistry between us is still there, when I look at her there is a real exciting energy, she admits this, she is still sexually attracted to me and as silly as it is, we still have sex. A lot of sex, shes the one making the eye contact, instigating it though what she says and the odd bit of physical contact, but its me making the actual moves and telling her how sexy and beautiful she is. I know shes using me just for sex, yes she wants it with me but ultimately she just wants to have sex, nothing more. I know this and of course for me I want the physical act of sex, but the difference is I also want her too. I want to be there for her, make her happy and enjoy a long happy life with her. Because I mentally can be that guy now.

Ive read up, done lots of research and I know time and space is the key right now. I cannot force her to take me back, it must be her choice. She doesnt want a divorce or to sell our house as she says its a big decision that she isnt ready for. Speaking to her, she says in her current mindset she doesnt know what she wants, she isnt sure. But for now she doesnt want me, doesnt want the marriage. I myself and her family are holding on to the little hope there is that this works out, I dont know how realistic that is, but I do know that Im a better man from us talking and having this split. Daily I face the day with optimism, I wont allow my negative thoughts to rule me, Im so confident that I can tackle these demons. But shes happy with where she is, shes enjoying this guys company, focusing on her. Right now Im spending too much time at our house (my gym equipment is in the garage), helping with her uni work, chores, kids, us having sex. I feel I need to dial this back, make her come more to me if she needs me (for whatever it is). I just care for her wellbeing so much, I want the best for her and dont want her to fail where she is in life. Im just at a loss with how to deal with this right now, I feel like Im not in any position of power, and I want her, she doesn’t want me.

It's up to you to divorce her or stay married to someone who doesn't want to be with you and is already cheating and with some guy. "time and space" allows her to get herself organized and not only leave you for this guy but get a nice ferocious attorney to take you to the cleaners.

This is not puppy love high school dating where giving her the could shoulder for a while will "make her want you". This is you holding on to hope with your head in the sand in a state of inertia while she gets her life without you organized.

The best thing you can do is consult an attorney immediately to understand your options and start taking control of the situation. Get a legal separation to get her out of the house and sever some financial ties. Right now some other guy is getting her best while you are just the fool paying the bills. Also get yourself to a therapist to start bracing yourself for any eventuality. Don't just sit on your hands wishing and hoping.

She doesnt want a divorce. But for now she doesnt want me, doesnt want the marriage. I myself and her family are holding on to the little hope there is that this works out

Thanks man, I do need to hear advice like this, firm and direct. The one thing I have to say is, she isnt a manipulative or evil person, so Im expecting a fair split when it comes to the house during divorce. End of the day we have 3 kids and they spend like 70% of their time with the mother, with this other guy they have never had sexual intercourse (only met twice) / over the phone sex / video call sex. I cant file for adultery on this basis, and given my history with her Ive been very easy going on the topic where shes had my consent.

Yes I agree on the time / space whilst she sorts her life out, it looks that way totally. The hope I guess comes from the fact she wants the separation but doesnt want to divorce, could be cause she doesnt want the stress of it all right now? Through all the good and bad, there is still something deep between us, shes just been so hurt by it all, she cant see past it now. Her words, I dont want to agree to a divorce where my head is at right now. Maybe Im reaching but to me that sort of gives me some hope.

Ive just messaged her now so say that the friends with benefits approach needs to stop as its not doing either of us any good. Have wished her the best and told her that I do love her, but we both need to properly move on. Myself in particular. I think based on the advice Ive been given this is the right move. I can then be the one to then pressure for divorce when Im ready? Right now its a lot for me to take on board.

It's up to you to divorce her or stay married to someone who doesn't want to be with you and is already cheating and with some guy. "time and space" allows her to get herself organized and not only leave you for this guy but get a nice ferocious attorney to take you to the cleaners.

 

This is not puppy love high school dating where giving her the could shoulder for a while will "make her want you". This is you holding on to hope with your head in the sand in a state of inertia while she gets her life without you organized.

 

The best thing you can do is consult an attorney immediately to understand your options and start taking control of the situation. Get a legal separation to get her out of the house and sever some financial ties. Right now some other guy is getting her best while you are just the fool paying the bills. Also get yourself to a therapist to start bracing yourself for any eventuality. Don't just sit on your hands wishing and hoping.

Gee, what happened to both of you growing up that made you this way? Were you abused or what? I mean, it sounds like neither of you have any morals or ethics. You encouraged her as a sex worker (I can't believe she didn't have sex with some of these guys). Marriage apparently meant nothing to her. You allowed her to go off like a dog in heat.

The bottom line is when you play with dynamite, eventually it's going to blow up in your hands, and that's what happened here. You let her hang out with Sugar Daddies, have affairs, and go off swinging. You just know that eventually she's going to get emotionally involved with someone and leave you hanging. You're both to blame for where you are now.

If you're in the UK, you can get a divorce for the following reasons:

"Under the current law in England and Wales, unless people can prove their marriage has broken down due to adultery, unreasonable behaviour or desertion, the only way to obtain a divorce without a spouse's consent is to live apart for five years."

So you have a couple of options. I think you can easily prove the unreasonable behavior just by telling the story you told here. Or just live apart for five years. But, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if she comes back when whoever she's with now dumps her. It's whether you would want her by that point, and how long will she stay with you until going off again.

And I would advise in any future relationships, you keep it more traditional and not share your girlfriend with other men.

He cheated too.

I don't know why she is the only one to blame. Plus, he encouraged and asked her to cheat!

OP, do you want an open marriage? If not, why did you choose to engage in one?

Gee, what happened to both of you growing up that made you this way? Were you abused or what? I mean, it sounds like neither of you have any morals or ethics. You encouraged her as a sex worker (I can't believe she didn't have sex with some of these guys). Marriage apparently meant nothing to her. You allowed her to go off like a dog in heat.

 

The bottom line is when you play with dynamite, eventually it's going to blow up in your hands, and that's what happened here. You let her hang out with Sugar Daddies, have affairs, and go off swinging. You just know that eventually she's going to get emotionally involved with someone and leave you hanging. You're both to blame for where you are now.

 

If you're in the UK, you can get a divorce for the following reasons:

 

"Under the current law in England and Wales, unless people can prove their marriage has broken down due to adultery, unreasonable behaviour or desertion, the only way to obtain a divorce without a spouse's consent is to live apart for five years."

 

So you have a couple of options. I think you can easily prove the unreasonable behavior just by telling the story you told here. Or just live apart for five years. But, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if she comes back when whoever she's with now dumps her. It's whether you would want her by that point, and how long will she stay with you until going off again.

 

And I would advise in any future relationships, you keep it more traditional and not share your girlfriend with other men.

Thanks for the reply DanZee. My upbringing has definitely left with me a mindset that Im not good enough, have to go the extra mile to get a persons approval. Im seeing a counsellor now and this is something Ive both now realised and have worked on since the split. My perception of life and our relationship has very much changed, but I cant ignore the past. We are both guilty of many mistakes.

My wife and I talk a lot now, we both are unhappy with how the relationship went and have many regrets. Regrets which I think in time we would be able to work though because we love each other a lot, it hurts us both to be away from each other. But for now this looks to be the best way.

I asked her if we could look into divorce sooner rather than later, she is afraid to make this move because she doesnt know if the split is what she wants. She said she could regret the choice and given her frame of mind right now its not a decision she can make clearly. I feel this is a bit of a cop out because she is essentially keeping her options open.

She is continuing to talk to this new guy, and for that reason we have stopped being so close (essentially best friends with benefit scenario). I said given our circumstances for once we need to be grown up and treat this split as a split, not have me popping in and out our family home, having casual sex when we want to. Its not healthy, and only masks the true feelings we should be in touch with at such a sensitive time.

Most definitely, I have learned a lot from this (both about relationships and myself). Ive changed my life, I respect myself more and no longer seek to impress or overcompensate. But at the same time also respect what I do have, as I never truly made my wife feel like she was very special to me, even though I knew she was inside (Im very in love with her, she is a a part of who I am). Emotionally immature.

He cheated too.

 

I don't know why she is the only one to blame. Plus, he encouraged and asked her to cheat!

 

OP, do you want an open marriage? If not, why did you choose to engage in one?

Not sure if it was made clear boltnrun, I did reach out to another girl, we flirted and things were said that should not have been. But there was no physical interaction between me and this girl. It never got that far, but yes I accept that this is a form of cheating. My wife cheated on me during a low part of the relationship, but the fact the relationship had been open with my consent, I allowed her to explore that.

An open marriage is never what I wanted or planned for, I think in our relationship because we both are very easy going and dont want to hurt each other, dont speak our minds like we really should. Things often snowball fast, her "Sugar Daddy" adventures eventually turning into an open marriage / swinging. Parts of it were exciting, but where I am now, I want her to be mine and I want her to truly know I respect her and she only needs me. But she also has insecurities, she needs to feel attractive and wanted. I often felt I could never give her enough of that alone even when we were on great terms, when we were passionate. I always felt the need to be better and push the boundaries, even if I was never 100% happy with the decisions made.

I think we married for all the wrong reasons (too young and mainly to get her out to the Middle East during my time there working). I think this is a situation where renewing vows if we ever had a future would be both a meaningful and much needed gesture.

An Update:

My wife has recently spoken to a friend (female) who was cheated on by her boyfriend. She was infactuated with this guy and he pretty much abused her physically and mentally during their relationship. She explained to my wife that I (as in me) am in the same situation as her, and my wife is in the position of this girls ex boyfriend (hope that makes some sense).

She said to my wife that having sex is not fair on me, because Im still very emotionally attached as my wife states she is no longer in love with me (I honestly think that this is not entirely true based on her behaviour during our split, we have spent more time together than before, full of happiness, smiles, flirting and an incredible spark which she has pointed out on several occasions). She also told my wife not to feel bad that shes seeing this guy, hes helping her through a low time in her life, also stating that there are reasons why people crop up in peoples lives at certain times.

It hurt like hell to hear this as I did not want to lose the connection we have had over the last few weeks, I didnt want to believe that there is potential between this guy and my wife (who still holds onto me through marriage / holding off the divorce).

After dwelling on this for the night, the next day I called her and agreed with her opinion. Said that the sex as good as it is is not fair. Its not fair that I want her where really shes just using me to have sex (she said thats not the case she wants me, but if youre not "in love with me", well it only comes across one way). I wished her well in her future, with or without this guy and said I still love her dearly but I need to move on. It hurt like hell, but at the same time I felt a level of closure, less anxious about the situation.

I think because she has had me for support and this guy for her desires, and then we started to have sex me fulfilling those needs, she was quite enjoying having the best of both worlds. Her and this guy havent met up for actual sex yet, so I suspect me doing this may have acelerated that process is she needs sex. I will be very unhappy to find out they have had sex in our home as I still have access to the house, pay all the bills whilst she studies. I did see in a message that she said to the guy "I cant have you at my house just yet, I have to think of my kids safety". So based on that its on the cards.

I still think about her regularly on a daily basis, but not having there as somebody to reach out to feels good. But it hurts, through all the ups and downs I hope this actually spends some time now focusing on what she wants rather than being on the phone to this guy morning, lunch and night. Her priorities should be self improvement and uni work but shes spending a lot of her time invested in this guy. Not my business, but we need to be mature I feel now, make some real life decisions not continue to pretend this isnt happening, cause Im definitely feeling the affects of this split.

Thank you all for the feedback! I hate things are where they are, but Im a better person for all of this. Ive learned a lot and am hoping to continue progressing my self improvement.

You encouraged her as a sex worker

I didnt ever entertain or spawn this idea of a sugar daddy, that was something she bought up herself. I merely didnt say no to it even though I wasnt happy with this. The whole thought of other men came from this very situation.

She spent time with an older man initially flying out to Norway and states nothing happened (one this I can say is we are not the lying type so I do believe here as far fetched as it sounds), then somebody here in the UK who she did get sexual with, but this may have been around the time where she had hooked up with people with my consent, I knew the deal. Just a big mess that's spiralled out of control.