"Stonewalling"

Recently looked up link removed because my boyfriend seems to do it whenever anything even slightly confrontational comes up. It really irks me, and as said in the article - it sort of leads me to intensify the situation as I start feeling like I'm talking down to him and my voice becomes this sort of bumbling noise in the background. I then start to feel guilty, and end up dropping it so I never really feel like I've gotten closer to him, or gained some kind of mutual understanding from whatever topic it is that's been brought up.

Sometimes I'm not even the one to bring things up. He will, and then after a certain point in the conversation he sort of just closes down behind this 'stone wall'. I'm at a bit of a loss.

I'm sort of relieved it's a 'thing' and not just something only we have. I'm quite a recent fan of Gottman, personally it has helped me. But I'm still a little hesitant to bring it up with him - I've sent him the article so far so we'll see if he takes time to read it. However, within the article and anything else I've read the "antidote" seems to just say "be more responsive!". Well, that's on his part, I'm not sure what to do on my part.

Just wondering if anyone else has been 'stonewalled' or a 'stonewaller' - has this issue ever been overcome?

Look up "avoidant personality". They are conflict avoidant and likely learned it from their dad as to bow to deal with their mother....now, all women.

That is interesting. The strange thing is, it doesn't happen with all confrontational conversations. Other times I must word it 'right' and he is happy to discuss, understand and offer an explanation. It's why it bothers me that it's only sometimes, I'm not sure if there is a specific mood, or time of day that I'm choosing that results in this, I just can't empathise with this (and I am usually pretty good with empathy)

It can be topic (trigger from childhood) or tone (yours).

Also...if he truly cares for you...what he will accept from others he does not want from you (tone).

My bf was researching something for me last night. I had already done it...asked him to double check as his knowledge base on that much stronger. After 30 minutes...I said "so...the XXX?"

And his response was "when I have the answer I will tell you."

Up until that comment...we were having a casual, lazy evening. I clearly stepped on an unknown trigger! I bit my tongue...he figured it out...and then realized his SNAP was out of order and apologized.

But what was the unknown trigger? See - if that were my situation I would then go to ask, what was it that made him snap? And then it would be likely I would get shut off. I would then try to explain that I was simply asking so that I would know for next time, but it would be too late, stonewalled.

I'm curious -- you said when you word things right, it'll be okay.

What would you say when you don't word things right?

Hi Cee, I know exactly what you are going through and I'll offer you my take on it. The 'stonewaller' learns that by saying nothing, you will say everything! ie he's well aware of the pattern: he says nothing and not only does he get to avoid telling you his real feelings on the matter, you end up either apologising to him to end the awful silence or dropping the subject entirely, never to be discussed or resolved! Its win win for him! Avoid uncomfortable conversations and control the relationship. He makes it so he's happy with how things are! Its narcissistic and ties in with "withholding" in general. With holding communication, affection, compliments or even time are all ways a passive aggressive person controls their negative feelings in relationships and inevitably their partner.

Of course this is just general stuff, people can use these tactics a little or to the extreme, subconsciously or consciously. In my case, over the 8 years I've been in a relationship with my guy, he does it when he does not want to 'answer the hard questions', admit he might be wrong, apologise or admit true feelings.

But what was the unknown trigger? See - if that were my situation I would then go to ask, what was it that made him snap? And then it would be likely I would get shut off. I would then try to explain that I was simply asking so that I would know for next time, but it would be too late, stonewalled.

I know when he is "thinking", especially @ work...he has a habit of sticking his tongue out a little bit between his teeth...concentrating. And I know him in WORK mode. And, yes..he was doing that.

But we were sitting having supper and he grabbed computer afterwards... and I had DONE the research...so I disregarded. And he literally told me "you know the sign"!

I'm curious -- you said when you word things right, it'll be okay.

 

What would you say when you don't word things right?

I guess if it came off as a criticism or an attack. Anything that he would translate to having blame put on him, he looks incredibly guilty as though it is all his fault. I feel I have to drop it because he just looks so down about what I'm saying, even if I'm just looking for acknowledgement or understanding of how I feel.

It's true, I end up pretty much having a conversation with myself. Affection and compliments are fine, and flowing - it is communication that sometimes has a stopper on it. If I do something to upset him he won't bring it up. If I seem upset but haven't yet broached the subject with him he will pick up on it, ask me what it is that is bothering me, (sometimes even throws in a guess of what it is) and then when I'm explaining, that's when it will happen. I don't shout, in fact I appreciate it when I know he knows something is up so I am usually quite light in the explanation. But then all of a sudden, it happens. He said he doesn't know why it happens, he just suddenly feels like he can't speak because he can't find the words. That's the most explanation I've had on the subject from him. I do very rarely get an apology - he shows he is apologetic in his actions, but when he does say sorry it seems as though he finds it difficult to say them - there's even a few times where it seems like he says it just to end the conversation and 'make me happy'

But what was the unknown trigger? See - if that were my situation I would then go to ask, what was it that made him snap? And then it would be likely I would get shut off. I would then try to explain that I was simply asking so that I would know for next time, but it would be too late, stonewalled.

Then is not the time to ask...they are in down mode.

Review...you will figure out some of it. Wait until next day or whenever...after their "flight" response has ended. And then they can tell you...calm as a clam.

Maybe he needs some time to figure out the words to explain his feelings?

My ex could be considered confrontational in a bad way (but he had improved in this, little by little, I suppose?), but when he does this, I just shut down and can't really... Properly think of what to say. I need time to remove myself from that energy to focus on what I want to say or at least, write it down.

You could tell him that you do prefer want him to come to you after those incident, but you are also going to leave him alone for maybe a day or two until he finds the words? Dunno.

Are you okay with the lack of apologies? You brought it up, so...

I have definitely done what your bf sometimes does. And I didn't have a lot of self awareness about it in my last relationships. It took until my thirties to even begin to truly challenge the behavior.

So what he is saying to you may be true. It really resonated with me. The not having the words. It is a feeling like emotionally shutting down. Like being bunged up inside. I don't know if you can relate to that at all??

It wasn't conscious manipulation on my part when I did this. And I won't lie. When things get very intense, sometimes it can still happen. Something in me just shuts down. But now I can pause and realize it as it is happening. Not only prevent it more often, but also manage it better once it has happened.

I didn't often apologize either. It was because I didn't understand what I had done wrong. Truly. I felt bad that the other person was upset. But I didn't connect my emotionally shutting down = the other person's pain and feelings of being rejected/neglected. I just couldn't connect the dots because I couldn't see it. I was engulfed in my own self and feelings.

Have you ever been overwhelmed with feeling or emotion? I think shutting down is one way people deal with it. It's an extreme way to cope with it. It's almost about psychological survival - that is the perceived level of intensity about it - and the need to shut down. That it is so intense, you don't know how to maintain psychological integrity AND deal with it. The only way to maintain the psychological integrity is to shut it all down and not know it.

Sorry to be long winded.

It really is a personal thing. It doesn't reflect on you. It's the persons own level of being able to tap into emotions and being open with them, deal with them.

You sound like a great girlfriend. And a good communicator.

Mhowe is right. The time to discuss anything to do with it, if you are going to be in a relationship with someone who has this particular difficulty with communicating, is when they are calm and relaxed.

The best conversations and progress I had in working on this was when we were having fun, or after some really good sexy time, because that was when I was most calm and open to being able to deeply listen to the other persons feelings and viewpoints on the situation. And really taking it in.

Interesting that it is really about a difficulty in deeply listening sometimes. No wonder it can hurt. Being really listened to is one of the greatest things in the world! and in a relationship.

hope it all works out.

Thought I would through in my thoughts since I am a very conflict avoidant person and tend to "shut down" when there is some kind of conflict.

A few things I can tell you, 1) I am not aware I am doing it in the moment. Its not until after when everything has calmed down that I realized I had shut down. 2) Wait until everything has calmed down before discussing WHY he shut down. If you do this to close to the conflict it will only trigger him again. 3) I know some of my triggers but not all. And there are a number of factors that effect why I shut down.

For me I know my conflict avoidance comes from my relationship with my mom. She could be VERY aggressive at times and she and my siblings would sometimes have screaming matches. As the youngest this made me very scared. I would sit in my room listen to the fights and just have no clue what to do with myself. Eventually that turned into whenever my family would start to argue over anything I would just leave and go to my room. When I couldn't do that I would just try and stay as quiet and out of the way as possible. If attention got turned to me I would literally be shaking and just nod and agree to whatever they were yelling about.

My mom hit us from time to time, and could say very mean things in the heat of the moment. So I learned to just avoid her when she was upset about something. I still do this today and only speak to her every few months.

I have been in a primarily emotionally abusive relationship previously, I recovered from it pretty well - but I used to get yelled at, and a finger shoved right in my face when my ex was drunk and had an issue and I would completely shut down. I felt like there was a time limit on my reply and pressure to answer in the correct way otherwise I would make it worse. I look at my now boyfriend, showing similar signs the way I used to and I feel like a monster even though I'm not shouting, yelling, or condescending in my tone - yet I become so guilty from it that I feel as though I am making him feel and react the way my ex used to make me feel and react.

I know it can't be as extreme as that, I just remember the words flying around in my head and not being able to make sense of them to form a complete sentence. I am worried I am giving him the same experience even though I try to be as delicate as possible once I see it begin to start.

I know that during his teens he had a some particularly troubling conflicts with his parents, to the point where he went to see a child therapist because he couldn't deal with his emotions properly. He's told me that she really helped him talk through what was troubling him and he became much more laid back after these sessions.

I think on my end at least, I can take these responses and be a little more patient. I have an urge to press further when he becomes shut off, and it clearly makes it worse. The most I get is a grunt or a nod, but the rest of the time he just sits looking down at the floor. I hope we can learn to meet each other somewhere in the middle

 

I didn't often apologize either. It was because I didn't understand what I had done wrong. Truly. I felt bad that the other person was upset. But I didn't connect my emotionally shutting down = the other person's pain and feelings of being rejected/neglected. I just couldn't connect the dots because I couldn't see it. I was engulfed in my own self and feelings.

 

I'm super emotional.....to the point of being BPD! My ex was avoidant! Can you imagine our roller-coaster? The more he clammed up....the more i kept at him....why don't you luuuuv me? Kinda crap.

3 years later, after he didn't propose on Valentine's day like i thought he was going to (bought the ring in Oct.) I blew up. Bought all kinds of relationship books. Yep, Gottman.

Found out the guy wasn't acting this way cuz he didn't CARE...like i thought! But because he was over-whelmed! He was going into turtle mode to protect himself. By the time i figured this all out, he had fallen out of love with me.

Now last night, I had a very minor melt down, because my guy friend who i recently became intimate with, had hurt my feelings. I went outside. Tried to take stock of the situation. New it was my BPD making me over-react! Even tho it was hurtful...at least in my mind. I came back in and tried to explain to him how i felt...and why.

He proceeded to tell me in a rather loud voice, that he said and did NOTHING wrong for me to act that way. And he admonished me for quite some time...while i stood there hurting....and thinking...I've done it again!

Later, i asked him if he didn't see my point of view at all...why what he said would have hurt me? He said no.

Tonite he told me basically it wasn't working, cuz he didn't like drama...AT ALL

OK. After we became intimate, he would then go into 'not talking the next day'....then we would see each other and have great sex...and the next day, he'd retract. It was such a roller-coaster. No wonder i was having abandonment issues. But drama???

He had NO CLUE that he was part of the problem. Any time i would want to talk 'feelings'...he'd almost yell at me and say, "i don't want to talk about that'.

Before we were good friends for 7 months, in which he had a crush on me. Almost saw each other daily....and now. He claims drama.

Sorry for the rant...this just happened last night...and tonite. Still so damn fresh.

But wanted to copy the 'above' and show it to him, because it fits him to a 'T'.

One day i tried to say something to him, about everything before a 'but' is canceled out on what you really mean...and he said very crabbily...don't you psychoanalyze me!!!

Why do i always get the avoiders! Never heard of such a thing until 3 years ago! ugh.

Sorry you went through that, Realitynut. Sounds like defensiveness on his part which always makes it worse. I get faced with that often, it is hard to approach someone who is always going to defend and twist things back to you in order to protect themselves.

Thanks CL. Just was hurting. Hurting for losing a best friend....and now after becoming intimate...we have both become like different people. He doesn't like the new me...and i certainly don't like the new him. And he wonders why i was hesitant on becoming 'intimate'? sheesh