15 Days NC - AND SURVIVING!!!

I just wanted to include an update - it's been 15 days NC, 16 days since I've seen him!!! I was never able to make it past day 5 NC before... I'm doing okay, better emotionally since I finally got my period - maybe all these darn hormones will subside now! LOL I've only cried twice. Yes, sometimes it's over-whelming - but to know I'm taking control of the situation and not letting him hurt me any more is probably the best self-esteem builder there is!!!

I've experienced a whole slew of emotions from relief, to anger, to indifference, to loneliness, to fear, to grief, to exhaustion. I haven't quite hit "happiness" yet but I'm thinking 2 weeks out is still probably too soon.

I find myself missing the good things about him so I return here alot, re-reading my previous posts - he sure put my through alot. Glad I finally know what I was dealing with - yes, education is the key. Funny that 1% of the population out there are narcissists/psychopaths - that means there's at least 3 million others in the US - eek!!! LOL

But, I'm definitely on my way into recovery and wanted to express my thanks to those of you who helped me along the way! And to all of you that are going through the process of NC - stay tough!!! Think how better off we'll be when we come out on the other side of misery and find that we're strong, happy and finally HEALTHY people!!!

They are EX's for a REASON - maintain NC!!! You CAN get through this!!!

*hugs*

-Temp

Taurus...congrats!!!!!

I have read your other posts and this is awesome news!!

I am on day 6 of NC right now. I have made it up to 2 weeks, then I break it, but now I am determined to NOT do that again!!!!

My goal is ONE month right now....and from there I think I will be just fine. Hang in there girl....a lot of us are on this ride with you!!!

We'll make it!

Excellant!

I'm sure other posters who are going through NC will be motivated by your experience.

Keep smiling,

BellaDonna

How long was the relationship anyway? I read one post where you spoke about his drinking and his inabilities after but not all the rest.

But if he treated you very badly and he didn't even care that he was doing it or trying to get help, then you definitely should be happy to cut away.

I'm caught in between hoping for things to work out in mine or just picking up and leaving everyone around me (long story with many many problems in my situation).

I will say when I was about 20. I got out of a 2 year relationship with NC. Occasionally a thought still pops in my head about her but the pain is gone. Except maybe when I drive by her home, there's a weird feeling but not pain.

I'm not sure about the last sentence about people being ex's for a reason because people do make mistakes when emotional. I know that one for sure. But if someone doesn't care that they hurt people or they cheat and hurt people, then I definitely agree with that statement in that case.

WELL DONE!

Just take each day as it comes and I'm sure you'll succeed.

Take care.

That's fantastic, taurus! And thank you so much for a wonderfully inspirational post.

Tired Man - My relationship with this person lasted approximately 15 months - but it was completely different than a normal relationship with a "sane" person. The damage that is done within a relationship with a person like this is severe.

It's a sad reality that people who are involved with a N/P really have no idea that these conditions even EXIST until they are so deep in it that they start to search for answers because we can't get out, they twist reality - we don't know what's real, right etc...

We have HUGE A-ha!!! moments when we figure out that we've been dealing with is a person with a Personality Disorder... all the questions are answered... An unfortunate discovery is that there is no cure, no recovery for them - they are what they are - they CAN NOT change - and SO the ONLY option for us is NC - as hard as that is because we are literally "addicted" to them... "Detoxing" from them is literally like coming off of a drug. Therapy, medication and support groups are a huge help... but sometimes the pull to them is so over-whelming that it is nearly impossible to leave them.

People who have not experienced a relationship with a N/P do not understand and jump to condemn the victim - that we should just leave or that WE must have a problem, or that we deserve it because we put up with it. It's a relief to learn that is a slow process of entrapment with these predators, and once you're hooked, it's nearly impossible to free yourself. Once again - hard to understand unless you're educated in the consequences of PD's.

There is hope through NC though... and in most of our cases - literally a life saver!

What are some of the symtoms that you noticed with him? Did he ever go to get help?

SYMPTOMS:

1. THE PATHOLOGICAL LIAR is skilfully deceptive and very convincing. Easily diverts from accountability by making up new lies when questioned. His memory is self serving as he denies past statements, bluffs or threats. Defense Strategy: Verify his words. Don't reveal things he'll use against you. Head for the door when things don't add up. Don't ask him questions - you'll only be inviting more lies.

2. THE CONTRACT BREAKER agrees to anything then turns around and does the opposite. Marriage, Legal, Custody agreements, normal social/personal protocol are meaningless. This con artist will accuse you of being the contract breaker. Enjoys orchestrating legal action and playing the role of the 'poor me' victim. Defense Strategy: Expect him to disregard an agreement. Have an effective Plan B in place. Protect yourself financially and emotionally.

3. THE HIGH ROLLER Successful plows and backstabs his way to the top. His family a disposable prop in his success facade. Is charismatic, eloquent and intelligent in his field, but often fakes abilities and credentials. Needs to be in ironfisted control, relying on his manipulation skills. Will ruthlessly support, exploit or target others in pursuit of his ever-changing agenda. Mercilessly abuses the power of his position. Uses treachery or terrorism to rule or govern. Potential problem or failure situations are delegated to others. A vindictive bully in the office with no social or personal conscience. Often suspicious and paranoid. Others may support him to further their own Mephistophelian objectives, but this wheeler-dealer will leave them holding the bag. Disappears quickly when consequences loom. Defense Strategy: Keep your references and resume up to date. Don't get involved in anything illegal. Document thoroughly to protect yourself. Thwarting them may backlash with a cascade of retaliation. Be on the lookout and spot them running for office and vote them out. Educate yourself about corporate bullies.

4. THE SEXUAL NARCISSIST is often hypersexual (male or female). Pornography, masturbation, incest are reported by his targets. Anything, anyone, young, old, male/female, are there for his gratification. This predator takes what is available. Can have a preference for 'sado-maso' sexuality. Often easily bored, he demands increasingly deviant stimulation. However, another behaviour exists, the one who withholds sex or emotional support. Defense Strategy: Expect this type to try to degrade you. Get away from him. Expect him to tell lies about your sexuality to evade exposure of his own.

5. THE BLAME-GAME NARCISSIST never accepts responsibility. He blames others for his failures and circumstances. A master at projection. Defense Strategy: Learn about projection. Don't take the bait when he blames you. Let him clean up the mess he makes.

6. THE VIOLENT NARCISSIST Wife-Beater, Murderer, Serial Killer, Stalker, Terrorist. Has a 'chip-on-his-shoulder' attitude. He lashes out and destroys or uses others (particularly women and children) as scapegoats for his aggression or revenge. He has poor impulse control. Fearless and guiltless, he shows bad judgement. He anticipates betrayal, humiliation or punishment, imagines rejection and will reject first to 'get it over with'. He will harass and push to make you pay attention to him and get a reaction. He will try to make you look out of control. Can become dangerous and unpredictable. Has no remorse or regard for the rights of others. Defense Strategy: Don't antagonize or tip your hand you're leaving. Ask for help from the police and shelters.

7. THE CONTROLLER/MANIPULATOR pits people against each other. Keeps his allies and targets separated. Is verbally skilful at twisting words and actions. Is charismatic and usually gets his way. Often undermines our support network and discourages us from seeing our family and friends. Money is often his objective. Other people's money is even better. He is ruthless, demanding and cruel. This control-freak bully wants you pregnant, isolated and financially dependent on him. Appears pitiful, confused and in need of help. We rush in to help him with our finances, assets, and talents. We may be used as his proxy interacting with others on his behalf as he sets us up to take the fall or enjoys the performance he is directing. Defense Strategy: Know the 'nature of the beast'. Facing his failure and consequences will be his best lesson. Be suspicious of his motives, and avoid involvement. Don't bail him out.

8. THE SUBSTANCE ABUSER Alcohol, drugs, you name it, this N does it. We see his over-indulgence in food, exercise or sex and his need for instant gratification. Will want you to do likewise. Defense Strategy: Don't sink to his level. Say No.

9. OUR "SOUL MATE" is cunning and knows who to select and who to avoid. He will come on strong, sweep us off our feet. He seems to have the same values, interests, goals, philosophies, tastes, habits. He admires our intellect, ambition, honesty and sincerity. He wants to marry us quickly. He will display integrity, and appear helpful, comforting, generous in his 'idealization' of us phase. It never lasts. Eventually Jekyll turns into Hyde. His discarded victims suffer emotional and financial devastation. We end the relationship and salvage what we can, or we are discarded quickly as he attaches to a "new perfect soul mate". He is an opportunistic parasite. Our "Knight in Shining Armor" has become our nightmare. Our healing is lengthy. Defense Strategy: Seek therapy. Learn about this disorder. Know the red flags of their behaviour, and "If he seems too good to be true..." Hide the hurt you feel. Never let him see it. Be watchful for the internet predator.

10. THE QUIET NARCISSIST is socially withdrawn, often dirty, unkempt. Odd thinking is observed. Used as a disguise to appear pitiful to obtain whatever he can,

11. THE SADIST is now the fully-unmasked malignant narcissist. His objective is watching us dangle as he inflicts emotional, financial, physical and verbal cruelty. His enjoyment is all too obvious. He'll be back for more. His pleasure is in getting away with taking other people's assets. His target: women, children, the elderly, anyone vulnerabie. Defense Strategy: Accept the Jekyll/Hyde reality. Make a "No Contact' rule. Avoid him altogether. End any avenue of vulnerability. Don't allow thoughts of his past 'good guy' image to lessen the reality of his disorder.

12. THE RAGER flies off the handle for little or no provocation. Has a severely disproportionate overreaction. Childish tantrums. His rage can be intimidating. He wants control, attention and compliance. In our hurt and confusion we struggle to make things right. Any reaction is his payoff. He seeks both good or bad attention. Even our fear, crying, yelling, screaming, name calling, hatred are his objectives. If he can get attention by cruelty he will do so. Defense Strategy: Manage your responses. Be fully independent. Don't take the bait of his verbal abuse. Expect emotional hurt. Volence is possible.

13. THE BRAINWASHER is very charismatic. He is able to manipulate others to obtain status, control, compliance, money, attention. Often found in religion and politics. He masterfully targets the naive, vulnerable, uneducated or mentally weak. Defense Strategy. Learn about brainwashing techniques. Listen to your gut instinct. Avoid them.

14. THE RISK-TAKING THRILL-SEEKER never learns from his past follies and bad judgment. Poor impulse control is a hallmark. Defense Strategy: Don't get involved. Use your own good judgement. Say No.

15. THE PARANOID NARCISSIST is suspicious of everything usually for no reason. Terrified of exposure and may be dangerous if threatened. Suddenly ends relationships if he anticipates exposure or abandonment. Defense Strategy: Give him no reason to be suspicious of you. Let some things slide. Protect yourself if you anticipate violence.

16. THE IMAGE MAKER will flaunt his 'toys', his children, his wife, his credentials and accomplishments. Admiration, attention, even glances from others, our envy or our fear are his objective. He is never satisfied. We see his false mask of arrogance and haughty strut as he demands center stage. He will alter his mask at will to appear pitiful, inept, solicitous, concerned, or haughty and superior. Appears the the perfect father, husband, friend - to those outside his home. Defense Strategy: Ignore his childlike behaviours. Know his payoff is getting attention, deceiving or abusing others. Provide him with 'supply' to avert problems.

17. THE EMOTIONAL VACUUM is the cruellest blow of all. We learn his lack of empathy. He has deceived us by his cunning ability to mimic human emotions. We are left numbed by the realization. It is incomprehensible and painful. We now remember times we saw his cold vacant eyes and when he showed odd reactions. Those closest to him become objectified and expendable. Defense Strategy: Face the reality. They can deceive trained professionals.

18. THE SAINTLY NARCISSIST proclaims high moral standing. Accuses others of immorality. "Hang 'em high" he says about the murderer on the 6:00 news. This hypocrite lies, cheats, schemes, corrupts, abuses, deceives, controls, manipulates and torments while portraying himself of high morals. Defense Strategy: Learn the red flags of behaviour. Be suspicious of people claiming high morals. Can be spotted at a church near you.

19. THE CALLING-CARD NARCISSIST forewarns his targets. Early in the relationship he may 'slip up' revealing his nature saying "You need to protect yourself around me" or "Watch out, you never know what I'm up to." We laugh along with him and misinterpret his words. Years later, coping with the devastation left behind, his victims recall the chilling warning. Defense Strategy: Know the red flags and be suspicious of the intentions of others.

20. THE PENITENT NARCISSIST says "I've behaved horribly, I'll change, I love you, I'll go for therapy." Appears to 'come clean' admitting past abuse and asking forgiveness. Claims we are at fault and need to change too. The sincerity of his words and actions appear convincing. We learn his words are verbal hooks. He knows our vulnerabilities and what buttons to push. We question our judgement about his disorder. We can disregard "Fool me once..." We hope for change and minimize past abuse. With a successful retargeting attempt, this N will enjoy his second reign of terror even more if we allow him back in our lives. Defense Strategy: Expect this. Self-impose a "No Contact" rule. Focus on the reality of his disorder. Remember past abuse. Join a support group. Enjoy life free of the Narcissist!!

The male gender is used. Your abuser may well be female. You are welcome to use this page for non-commercial purpose with creditation/link to our site.

link removed

My N had 19 of the 20 traits. Some will only display 4 or 5 traits to be diagnosed as NPD. And as far as him getting help? "The clinical term is Narcissism, a personality disorder that has no known cause and no known cure." They will NEVER ADMIT that there is anything wrong with them. There is NO CURE for NPD. It is what it is.

If you feel like you are or MAY HAVE BEEN involved with a N, please educate yourself. Use the link provided above... read all that you can. LEARN, UNDERSTAND, AND HEAL.

Thank you for taking the time to write those things down...

I was married to a person just like your ex.

I know what you're going through, I've been through hell trying to recover from this emotional mess. Very hard.

Please, stay strong. We have been separated for 9 months now and it still hurts. But I am strong at NC and every day gets a little easier.

I will send you prayers, PM me if you'd like

Buba

I personally don't agree with number 20 in your list if the person is sincere and not just toying. But I think the list also is pretty vague and encompasses so many different characteristics.

But what if someone has 4 of these traits and does admit them? Doesn't that completely go against what you said?

Tired Man - The list consists of the behaviors a Narcissist will display - and NOT all at one time. You may NOT be dealing with a N. With true N's they may ADMIT to you they have a problem, but really don't MEAN it. They can NOT BE CURED. That would be like you being able to completely change everything about YOURSELF. You wouldn't be able to do that because you and your experiences have CREATED who YOU are.

The basic essense of a "N" is that they are TRULY EVIL. Yes, this is hard to grasp because as human beings we want to believe that everyone is GOOD and that they can ALWAYS change and that there is ALWAYS hope. This is NOT THE CASE with Narcissists. They are TRUE predators, MASTERMINDS of deception. They are cold - INCAPABLE of true emotion yet can mimick them - AND EVEN FOOL PROFESSIONALS.

Anyone who has had an experience with a N/P will be nodding completely in agreement. The only way is NC. Perhaps you aren't dealing with a N or are still praying there is hope for change. In either case I wish you a speedy recovery with whatever you are dealing with. It took me 15 months of pure HECK to finally give it up and admit it was hopeless. Others have taken 15 YEARS to come to that understanding. These people are considered MENTALLY ILL. You can't love them enough, they can not be cured, no amount of medication, therapy or even PRAYER will change them. A very hard concept to swallow but an important one for us if we have any hope of getting out of a really bad situation.

There is plenty of other educational reading material out there on the web if you do not feel that list was specific enough for you. Read, read, read. There are other personailty disorders that may seem to "fit" your situation better. *hugs* to you in this time of pain - Temp.

Well my story is I was the one who would have an explosive temper. Non violent but completely emotional. Said things out of anger and hurt, went to the non talking approach, things like that. Problem is, I did it because of a severely emotionally traumatic childhood. I didn't want to do it but I did. However I admit it and am in therapy and work every day on it. Does that make me an N? I don't drink or do drugs. I used to years ago (recreationally). Does that mean I was an N then? I love to argue points until I win it. Does that make me an N? And finally, number 20. Does that make me an N?

I know in my heart that I never intend to hurt a soul. I do admit that I am oversensitive to being hurt and I used to just take it quietly and let it eat me up then it hit a point where I started exploding on people who hurt me. I have decided to try and put a stop to it when possible.

The onset of narcissism is in infancy, childhood and early adolescence. It is commonly attributed to childhood abuse and trauma inflicted by parents, authority figures, or even peers.

There is a whole range of narcissistic reactions - from the mild, reactive and transient to the permanent personality disorder.

NPD is treated in talk therapy (psychodynamic or cognitive-behavioural). The prognosis for an adult narcissist is poor, though his adaptation to life and to others can improve with treatment. Medication is applied to side-effects and behaviours (such as mood or affect disorders and obsession-compulsion) - usually with some success.

We can talk more if you'd like - but I'm in NO WAY an expert - you may just have anger management issues... have you spoken with a therapist?

I hear ya Taurus. I was involved with a very deceptive, unaccountable, and manipulative guy for 3 years. He got me so removed from life, my friends, family he just broke me as a person. I was broke emotionally, physically I gained 70 pounds, and finacially I am still recovering.

It took me 3 years to purge everything about him out of my system so when I look back at 7 years ago I have learned never ever ever date one of those again.

I always thought I would care for him in my heart but WRONG I dont think of him at all. The only thing I do think about is his next victim may god be on her side.

Red, welcome first of all - congrats on your healing - I'm still recovering - but at least I'm aware. I had also gained alot of weight - out of extreme depression and isolation. Have since lost it all but I was almost 200 pounds by the time I moved out.

I'm still "detoxing" from him - some days are good - others not so good - but better than what I was dealing with with him. I feel for anyone he ends up with, I pray for them, yet thankful it's not me.

He suffered from childhood abuse at the hands of his religious freak-show family. But part of NPD can be hereditery... he was probably born evil. I don't pity him, I wish people like him didn't exist - but one thing I DO know is that in the future I'll be able to recognize the traits and stay far away from any other man like this.

*hugs* to you - I'm sorry either one of us had to experience something like this - but at least it made us stronger and wiser...!

-Temp.

The onset of narcissism is in infancy, childhood and early adolescence. It is commonly attributed to childhood abuse and trauma inflicted by parents, authority figures, or even peers.

 

There is a whole range of narcissistic reactions - from the mild, reactive and transient to the permanent personality disorder.

 

NPD is treated in talk therapy (psychodynamic or cognitive-behavioural). The prognosis for an adult narcissist is poor, though his adaptation to life and to others can improve with treatment. Medication is applied to side-effects and behaviours (such as mood or affect disorders and obsession-compulsion) - usually with some success.

 

We can talk more if you'd like - but I'm in NO WAY an expert - you may just have anger management issues... have you spoken with a therapist?

Yes, I am in therapy because the 8 year relationship breaking up destroyed whatever I had left in me. I'm not there for that reason only but also to work on my emotional outbursts when hurt. I know it's fine to be hurt by how people who are supposed to care treat you but my explosiveness is what I am trying to control.

TiredMan - I applaud your desire to seek help with your anger management. That involves a certain degree of "self awareness" and "admitted wrong doing" so I highly doubt you are suffering from full blown NPD. (Remember - all of us are slightly narcissitic)

Full blown N/P's will take absolutely no blame for any part of ANYTHING. They will blame everyone BUT themselves - because to admit any wrong doing would be to admit that they themselves are not perfect or have a problem. The very thing they fear the most.

It's a very fascinating mental illness, actually - and the more I learn about it, the more I want to learn!!! Keep up with your therapy and fix YOURSELF because you'll never have the chance to have a healthy relationship if you enter into it broken...

*hugs* =)

-Temp

I'm actually a very practical person. I do get very emotional and sensitive though because of how I was raised. Anything I did was never good enough, always put down or said horrific things to by family, forced into things I didn't want to do for family to say "my son is doing so and so" and so forth. Not to mention a mother who is always negative. It's rare to hear positive things from her.

But I know all this. I still want to not blow up at people. I wish I could not get hurt so much but that's a long way off.

At the same time, I feel so betrayed by the woman I was with for almost 8 years. She knows all about this and always acted like she understood. I'm big on loyalty and the fact that she just snapped like this is killing me. I saw her yesterday for an hour for the first time in 2 months. We didn't argue and we walked around. Not much talking about stuff just spending time. But I just felt so weird inside. I looked into her eyes and didn't like what I saw. She is someone who I would always look into her eyes and feel so good. And I didn't feel that. She is so worried about me (about me either doing something very drastic or just leaving and moving somewhere where no one knows where i am which is a very high possibility) but at the same time, I think like if she was so concerned, she shouldn't have not just gotten so fed up without one mention of ever leaving and doing what she did, without at least giving me some opportunities to work on it and be by my side through it. We hugged hello and bye but it was not one of "our" hugs. Her mind is very complicated and she overthinks everything. She will think about stuff for a while and come up with the weirdest stuff ever. But I accept her in this manner because she is who she is. I just don't trust her mind too much. But she says so many different things, my head is spinning. She has a ton of her own problems as well. At this point, it's at the "be friends and see what happens" point for her though that might change next week. We have shared so much for so long that it's killing my mind.

I mentioned to her that I can't forget that she turned her back to me when I hit rock bottom. She doesn't think she did but I see it differently. She has said and done things when really emotional and irrational too (not as bad as me but still) and I don't hold on to them forever. Now the stuff that is going on now? I don't think I can forget that. But who knows. I'm a mess.

TiredMan... you make me feel as though I'm speaking to D... what you just wrote - well, he could have written those exact words - except that our relationship was only 15 months... even right down to the part about your childhood and how your family treated you, about her over-thinking everything - LOL!

Of course HE would never seek help, write down his thoughts, or let things go etc - I'm happy for you that YOU ARE doing positive things for both you and your ex g/f... I had hoped so desperately for him to try and be different. Your ex g/f's a lucky woman in my eyes...

If you need to talk... I'm here!

*hugs*

-Temp

I can't tell you how many stories I have read where people wish the person would take responsibility and/or work on it. I feel like I have and where does it get me? I'm heartbroken and destroyed.

I don't know about her being lucky. I do it because I care so much and I know that isn't me. I'm one of the sweetest caring people around and when I get hurt, it kills me. Thus the intense reactions to it. But the worst part is that she HAS acted very irrationally herself and I am still here. Am I not good enough to stand by after 8 years? How does someone have the heart to do that?

This whole situation is mental torture for me.

Dear Tired... yes, it IS mental torture - almost any form of loss, trauma, grieving and healing is! I have been to the gates of heck and back within that relationship. I was always hoping that with all the work and effort I was putting into it he'd see that I was willing to do ANYTHING for him, to prove I was worthy of his love... guess what? He never tried to show ME that - not ONCE - and I was so busy trying to prove myself I didn't see that. I deserved so much better than HIM. Have you ever thought that perhaps if something takes so much work that it isn't suppose to happen??? I used to feel that with effort you'd appreciate what you had so much more in the end... um, where'd I come up with that??? Oh yeah, that's what HE said. Well - never again - I'm out the door at the first sign of conflict.

So... I um, met someone... I wasn't looking for it to happen and I don't want to say too much because I don't want to jinx it! I also don't want to get my hopes up either. Just gonna kick back and see where it leads. FRIENDS FIRST!!! I truly don't want another relationship right now - I'm so sick of getting hurt... but you guys, cross your fingers for me!!!

I hope it works out for you. Do you keep in contact with the ex?

My situation is a bit different because I know how I was and work every day to improve because I love her and want to try and am in therapy so I don't lose my cool. I am doing a lot of things. I just wish she could do the same and not hold on so hard to the bad stuff. I KNOW she loves me dearly but she just doens't want to be hurt anymore. But I also want her to see that she has hurt me too. Who knows what will happen. I have no desire to be with anyone else for the rest of my life. I have had a breakup after a couple of years and I know it hurts. But after that, I wanted someone else and didn't know if I would find love again. In this case, I know I don't want anyone else because she is that special, if she can work on a few things and accept me for who I am and understand that I am trying so hard.

I have absolutely no contact with the ex and have no interest what-so-ever in ever hearing from him again. He can go on with his perverted, corrupt life... he disgusts me.

Tired, why don't you tell me specifics as to what's going on and things you have done to her. Maybe I can offer you a unique female perspective. I realize you love her, is it because the two of you are no longer together? Why did you treat her badly in the first place if you loved her? What about her do you feel she needs to change?

In this case, I know I don't want anyone else because she is that special, if she can work on a few things and accept me for who I am and understand that I am trying so hard.

This line concerns me a bit - that's why I'm asking. Sometimes, so much water has gone under the bridge that there is no chance of back-paddling... do you understand what I mean? Give me specifics - I don't care how long the post is and I'll help if I can. 8)