temperamental_taurus

Well, it's been quite awhile since my last post... I just stopped in to check things out and figured while I'm here I'll post an update. First off... I'm on day 73 post D&D - in layman's terms - I've been away from that vile man for 73 days and I have to tell you, I'm a completely different person. Back then, I wanted to die - I just re-read old posts of mine and it's as if I'm reading about someone else. Was that REALLY me? So weak, confused, & pathetically in love with a psychopath? You bet it was and I wouldn't change a second of it for the world. Why? Well, the place that I'm in now is better than any place I've been before in my life. I've learned so much about myself, about relationships and about the true meaning of friendship & supportiveness. How to heal and heal correctly. I've actually taken the time that I needed to and have done what I've needed to do to recover from this narcissistic jerk. I'm stronger, wiser & finally... okay. Okay with being alone, okay mentally, okay being ME. I had lost myself somewhere in that whole mess, but I found my way out and I have NEVER felt better. First, it took 21 days of pure torture to rid myself of my addiction to him. Everyone said just hold on, get to day 21 - after that the hard part is over. I had good days, then would fall apart again the next. At day 17, I was still a mess, had hit another low and figured there's just NO WAY in 4 short days I'll feel better. But you want to know what? I woke up on day 20 and the difference was like night and day. I felt GREAT! Stronger than I ever had and I haven't had a bad day since. It was as though the fog had lifted. Getting there, well, it was the hardest thing I ever have had to do in my lifetime. The addiction to a Narcissist/Psychopath is one of the toughest bonds to break. They wear you down, until there is nothing left of your self-esteem, will power or energy. For the victim of this kind of abuser HOW & WHERE do you pull the kind of strength you need to break away when you're at your weakest point in your life??? How I managed I'll never know. I felt like death most days... I looked like a drug abuser coming down off a high... I was pale, colorless, no energy... the dark rings around my eyes were all too obvious. I slept - ALOT and "hibernated" for awhile. I didn't answer my phone, didn't go out and eventually got comfortable with being alone, with myself, all by myself... I posted alot on a forum specifically for this kind of abuser... I have made true & dear friends. I STILL post almost every day there. But the subject matter has changed now. At first, upon discovering that I had been with a person suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder / Psychopathy - we all discussed the traits - did your "N/P" do this or that. A comparing of notes, of sorts. But we've grown so much together. Now, the topics have shifted to US - what we're doing now, how we're feeling, positive steps and forward progress - never really discussing the parasitic losers that brought us all together in the first place. For once in my life, I am also enjoying the friendship, support & company of women, another huge step for me. We've all come so far & it was a rocky journey to say the least... a journey that I thank God for. I'm just here to let all you know - that there IS life out there!!! It does get better and the pain WILL subside. Do not allow someone to take away your pride and self-worth. Bottom line: IF they truly love you they WILL NOT TREAT YOU POORLY. It is better to be alone, confident & strong than to suffer day in and day out - in misery - because you are not getting back from your partner even a fraction of what you are putting into it. Yes, it takes TIME but you can & will get through it - I did. Maintain NC. Take time to yourself. Heal. Learn. Grow. And most of all - LEARN TO LOVE YOURSELF!!! Once you do, you will never be willing or able to tolerate another person's abuse again. Hugs & love & peace to you all.... - Temp.

C.C... *hugs* to you... maintain NC!!! I've always tried to maintain friendships with my exs and actually HAVE with a majority of them - but it's ONLY AFTER a significant amount of time has gone by... I'm talking like 6 months at least. Some exs, well it's unreasonable to even think about maintaining any connection with them - it'd only end up hurting you in the end because they'll constantly be trying to hurt you. I've been in NC for, oh, 24 days now? Although I don't consider it NO CONTACT... because that implies that I'm doing it specifically NOT to contact him, as though at any point that will be broken or something ... Iwill never contact him again... ya know - so it should be called something like FBN "Forever Beginning NOW" It was too soon for you... just start over again with NC - it only gets easier! *hugs* Temp

It is hard to determine if someone is suffering from NPD - a serious mental illness/personality disorder just from the one example offered. From what you described it sounds like the person could possibly be trying to "mirror" you... meaning essentially give back to you everything that you want/are etc... Then again there are definitely people in this world that try to compromise and change to accommodate their partner - those people definitely ARE NOT suffering from NPD. Only you yourself know your situation. I encourage you to do research regarding NPD and the other various personality disorders to see if you find any similarities between them and what you are experiencing. *hugs* - Temp.

Ok, I hear ya, you had a crappy childhood - so did alot of us, what one must do with this is quit using this as an excuse for how you behave NOW. None of us are kids anymore. We are each individually responsible for how we behave. By not talking with her, you fostered within the relaionship a feeling of abandonment. Isolation. A women takes this as the ultimate rejection. It hurts deeply, destroys trust. What I'm hearing here is that you said before you want her to love you unconditionally - yet I keep reading over and over from you that you don't accept HER for who SHE IS - you seem to have been very critical of her, telling her about all the things that SHE did wrong, etc... Does she REALLY know this? By ignoring her, saying she needs to change herself, etc, etc, etc... you are essentially saying I love the IDEA of you, but not who you ARE. Women can feel anything that feels even remotely insincere or incomplete. What I'm hearing? YOU YOU YOU YOU - when she has come to you, to share herself with you, you're not there for her - yet want her to be understanding, considerate of you. Relationships are a two-way street... as a woman, I would have started becoming bitter and hurtful towards you as well. It's very obvious to me that you have let her down many times in the past. Concerned for only how you are feeling etc... You feel like she turned her back on you? How many times do you think she was made to feel that way about YOU? You had rejected her yet again by not speaking to her. Yup. Women get to a point where they just can't stand it anymore. They get fed up. They'll take and take and take and deal and deal and deal until one day it hits us like a semi - and we're DONE. OK, you are emotional and blow up at her and then ignore her. A temper tantrum, yes? Rehabilitation through therapy takes YEARS - YEARS!!! She been with you long enough to realize now that you are probably not going to ever change - or at least not any time soon. She's probably angry with you, thus lashes out and says hurtful things - I know I did with my ex. I loved him so much yet NEVER forgot the horrible things he said and did to me. She probably loves you very much, that's why she can't handle just NEVER speaking to you again - yet she's distancing herself. Kinda like weaning herself off of you. My suggestion, seriously? Take this time to work on yourself ONLY. Go to counseling, therapy, get meds to help... don't worry abnout doing it for the two of you - right now there is NO CHANCE that it's going work. Do it for yourself. Address all your past childhood crap. Find happiness within yourself. Maybe talk with her. Apologize to her, acknowledge the hurt you have caused her WITHOUT pointing the finger back at her... use only I and me statements - don't say YOU did this or YOU made me feel of anything like that. Ask for a break - so you can get things together. I mean a serious I'm taking time by myself to work on myslef break. Then perhaps in 6 months (although I think that still may be even too short of a time frame) - you guys can try and re-connect SLOWLY. There's too much hurt, broken trust etc right now - you guys will fall right back into the same relationship patterns. The best thing for both of you at this time is a seperation to let things cool off. If the two of you are meant to be then it WILL HAPPEN in the future. If not? Then you've got all that therapy under your belt so that you can have a GOOD and STABLE relationship with someone else.

I have absolutely no contact with the ex and have no interest what-so-ever in ever hearing from him again. He can go on with his perverted, corrupt life... he disgusts me. Tired, why don't you tell me specifics as to what's going on and things you have done to her. Maybe I can offer you a unique female perspective. I realize you love her, is it because the two of you are no longer together? Why did you treat her badly in the first place if you loved her? What about her do you feel she needs to change? This line concerns me a bit - that's why I'm asking. Sometimes, so much water has gone under the bridge that there is no chance of back-paddling... do you understand what I mean? Give me specifics - I don't care how long the post is and I'll help if I can. 8)

Dear Tired... yes, it IS mental torture - almost any form of loss, trauma, grieving and healing is! I have been to the gates of heck and back within that relationship. I was always hoping that with all the work and effort I was putting into it he'd see that I was willing to do ANYTHING for him, to prove I was worthy of his love... guess what? He never tried to show ME that - not ONCE - and I was so busy trying to prove myself I didn't see that. I deserved so much better than HIM. Have you ever thought that perhaps if something takes so much work that it isn't suppose to happen??? I used to feel that with effort you'd appreciate what you had so much more in the end... um, where'd I come up with that??? Oh yeah, that's what HE said. Well - never again - I'm out the door at the first sign of conflict. So... I um, met someone... I wasn't looking for it to happen and I don't want to say too much because I don't want to jinx it! I also don't want to get my hopes up either. Just gonna kick back and see where it leads. FRIENDS FIRST!!! I truly don't want another relationship right now - I'm so sick of getting hurt... but you guys, cross your fingers for me!!!

TiredMan... you make me feel as though I'm speaking to D... what you just wrote - well, he could have written those exact words - except that our relationship was only 15 months... even right down to the part about your childhood and how your family treated you, about her over-thinking everything - LOL! Of course HE would never seek help, write down his thoughts, or let things go etc - I'm happy for you that YOU ARE doing positive things for both you and your ex g/f... I had hoped so desperately for him to try and be different. Your ex g/f's a lucky woman in my eyes... If you need to talk... I'm here! *hugs* -Temp

TiredMan - I applaud your desire to seek help with your anger management. That involves a certain degree of "self awareness" and "admitted wrong doing" so I highly doubt you are suffering from full blown NPD. (Remember - all of us are slightly narcissitic) Full blown N/P's will take absolutely no blame for any part of ANYTHING. They will blame everyone BUT themselves - because to admit any wrong doing would be to admit that they themselves are not perfect or have a problem. The very thing they fear the most. It's a very fascinating mental illness, actually - and the more I learn about it, the more I want to learn!!! Keep up with your therapy and fix YOURSELF because you'll never have the chance to have a healthy relationship if you enter into it broken... *hugs* =) -Temp

Keep in mind Narcissists don't have to display ALL of the traits - mine didn't have GRANDIOSE ideas either, really - but it was more like a grandiose sense of self or "entitlement" - that he could do whatever he wanted to whoever he wanted because he didn't care about others' feelings. You didn't move your legs DID YOU as he was walking by??? What struck me is the blaming, the games, the cutting you down, breaking you down, the outburts over practically NOTHING, accusing you, getting mad at you for "cooking to slow", getting mad because you got upset that he HURT you, claiming you're insecure, or him having to take you down a notch, you feeling suicidal. I'd suggest you do a little more research my dear and not just go off that list. There are many links included on that site... What you are describing sounds all too familiar. Either way - it's an ABUSIVE relationship - leave it alone. -Temp.

Hi Venus, that would be me... the girl posting about Narcissism... Go to this website and read everything you can... make the decision for yourself: link removed I don't know your whole story but some of the things you are saying ring true. If you have any questions - let me know. *hugs* -Temp

Red, welcome first of all - congrats on your healing - I'm still recovering - but at least I'm aware. I had also gained alot of weight - out of extreme depression and isolation. Have since lost it all but I was almost 200 pounds by the time I moved out. I'm still "detoxing" from him - some days are good - others not so good - but better than what I was dealing with with him. I feel for anyone he ends up with, I pray for them, yet thankful it's not me. He suffered from childhood abuse at the hands of his religious freak-show family. But part of NPD can be hereditery... he was probably born evil. I don't pity him, I wish people like him didn't exist - but one thing I DO know is that in the future I'll be able to recognize the traits and stay far away from any other man like this. *hugs* to you - I'm sorry either one of us had to experience something like this - but at least it made us stronger and wiser...! -Temp.

The onset of narcissism is in infancy, childhood and early adolescence. It is commonly attributed to childhood abuse and trauma inflicted by parents, authority figures, or even peers. There is a whole range of narcissistic reactions - from the mild, reactive and transient to the permanent personality disorder. NPD is treated in talk therapy (psychodynamic or cognitive-behavioural). The prognosis for an adult narcissist is poor, though his adaptation to life and to others can improve with treatment. Medication is applied to side-effects and behaviours (such as mood or affect disorders and obsession-compulsion) - usually with some success. We can talk more if you'd like - but I'm in NO WAY an expert - you may just have anger management issues... have you spoken with a therapist?

Tired Man - The list consists of the behaviors a Narcissist will display - and NOT all at one time. You may NOT be dealing with a N. With true N's they may ADMIT to you they have a problem, but really don't MEAN it. They can NOT BE CURED. That would be like you being able to completely change everything about YOURSELF. You wouldn't be able to do that because you and your experiences have CREATED who YOU are. The basic essense of a "N" is that they are TRULY EVIL. Yes, this is hard to grasp because as human beings we want to believe that everyone is GOOD and that they can ALWAYS change and that there is ALWAYS hope. This is NOT THE CASE with Narcissists. They are TRUE predators, MASTERMINDS of deception. They are cold - INCAPABLE of true emotion yet can mimick them - AND EVEN FOOL PROFESSIONALS. Anyone who has had an experience with a N/P will be nodding completely in agreement. The only way is NC. Perhaps you aren't dealing with a N or are still praying there is hope for change. In either case I wish you a speedy recovery with whatever you are dealing with. It took me 15 months of pure HECK to finally give it up and admit it was hopeless. Others have taken 15 YEARS to come to that understanding. These people are considered MENTALLY ILL. You can't love them enough, they can not be cured, no amount of medication, therapy or even PRAYER will change them. A very hard concept to swallow but an important one for us if we have any hope of getting out of a really bad situation. There is plenty of other educational reading material out there on the web if you do not feel that list was specific enough for you. Read, read, read. There are other personailty disorders that may seem to "fit" your situation better. *hugs* to you in this time of pain - Temp.

SYMPTOMS: 1. THE PATHOLOGICAL LIAR is skilfully deceptive and very convincing. Easily diverts from accountability by making up new lies when questioned. His memory is self serving as he denies past statements, bluffs or threats. Defense Strategy: Verify his words. Don't reveal things he'll use against you. Head for the door when things don't add up. Don't ask him questions - you'll only be inviting more lies. 2. THE CONTRACT BREAKER agrees to anything then turns around and does the opposite. Marriage, Legal, Custody agreements, normal social/personal protocol are meaningless. This con artist will accuse you of being the contract breaker. Enjoys orchestrating legal action and playing the role of the 'poor me' victim. Defense Strategy: Expect him to disregard an agreement. Have an effective Plan B in place. Protect yourself financially and emotionally. 3. THE HIGH ROLLER Successful plows and backstabs his way to the top. His family a disposable prop in his success facade. Is charismatic, eloquent and intelligent in his field, but often fakes abilities and credentials. Needs to be in ironfisted control, relying on his manipulation skills. Will ruthlessly support, exploit or target others in pursuit of his ever-changing agenda. Mercilessly abuses the power of his position. Uses treachery or terrorism to rule or govern. Potential problem or failure situations are delegated to others. A vindictive bully in the office with no social or personal conscience. Often suspicious and paranoid. Others may support him to further their own Mephistophelian objectives, but this wheeler-dealer will leave them holding the bag. Disappears quickly when consequences loom. Defense Strategy: Keep your references and resume up to date. Don't get involved in anything illegal. Document thoroughly to protect yourself. Thwarting them may backlash with a cascade of retaliation. Be on the lookout and spot them running for office and vote them out. Educate yourself about corporate bullies. 4. THE SEXUAL NARCISSIST is often hypersexual (male or female). Pornography, masturbation, incest are reported by his targets. Anything, anyone, young, old, male/female, are there for his gratification. This predator takes what is available. Can have a preference for 'sado-maso' sexuality. Often easily bored, he demands increasingly deviant stimulation. However, another behaviour exists, the one who withholds sex or emotional support. Defense Strategy: Expect this type to try to degrade you. Get away from him. Expect him to tell lies about your sexuality to evade exposure of his own. 5. THE BLAME-GAME NARCISSIST never accepts responsibility. He blames others for his failures and circumstances. A master at projection. Defense Strategy: Learn about projection. Don't take the bait when he blames you. Let him clean up the mess he makes. 6. THE VIOLENT NARCISSIST Wife-Beater, Murderer, Serial Killer, Stalker, Terrorist. Has a 'chip-on-his-shoulder' attitude. He lashes out and destroys or uses others (particularly women and children) as scapegoats for his aggression or revenge. He has poor impulse control. Fearless and guiltless, he shows bad judgement. He anticipates betrayal, humiliation or punishment, imagines rejection and will reject first to 'get it over with'. He will harass and push to make you pay attention to him and get a reaction. He will try to make you look out of control. Can become dangerous and unpredictable. Has no remorse or regard for the rights of others. Defense Strategy: Don't antagonize or tip your hand you're leaving. Ask for help from the police and shelters. 7. THE CONTROLLER/MANIPULATOR pits people against each other. Keeps his allies and targets separated. Is verbally skilful at twisting words and actions. Is charismatic and usually gets his way. Often undermines our support network and discourages us from seeing our family and friends. Money is often his objective. Other people's money is even better. He is ruthless, demanding and cruel. This control-freak bully wants you pregnant, isolated and financially dependent on him. Appears pitiful, confused and in need of help. We rush in to help him with our finances, assets, and talents. We may be used as his proxy interacting with others on his behalf as he sets us up to take the fall or enjoys the performance he is directing. Defense Strategy: Know the 'nature of the beast'. Facing his failure and consequences will be his best lesson. Be suspicious of his motives, and avoid involvement. Don't bail him out. 8. THE SUBSTANCE ABUSER Alcohol, drugs, you name it, this N does it. We see his over-indulgence in food, exercise or sex and his need for instant gratification. Will want you to do likewise. Defense Strategy: Don't sink to his level. Say No. 9. OUR "SOUL MATE" is cunning and knows who to select and who to avoid. He will come on strong, sweep us off our feet. He seems to have the same values, interests, goals, philosophies, tastes, habits. He admires our intellect, ambition, honesty and sincerity. He wants to marry us quickly. He will display integrity, and appear helpful, comforting, generous in his 'idealization' of us phase. It never lasts. Eventually Jekyll turns into Hyde. His discarded victims suffer emotional and financial devastation. We end the relationship and salvage what we can, or we are discarded quickly as he attaches to a "new perfect soul mate". He is an opportunistic parasite. Our "Knight in Shining Armor" has become our nightmare. Our healing is lengthy. Defense Strategy: Seek therapy. Learn about this disorder. Know the red flags of their behaviour, and "If he seems too good to be true..." Hide the hurt you feel. Never let him see it. Be watchful for the internet predator. 10. THE QUIET NARCISSIST is socially withdrawn, often dirty, unkempt. Odd thinking is observed. Used as a disguise to appear pitiful to obtain whatever he can, 11. THE SADIST is now the fully-unmasked malignant narcissist. His objective is watching us dangle as he inflicts emotional, financial, physical and verbal cruelty. His enjoyment is all too obvious. He'll be back for more. His pleasure is in getting away with taking other people's assets. His target: women, children, the elderly, anyone vulnerabie. Defense Strategy: Accept the Jekyll/Hyde reality. Make a "No Contact' rule. Avoid him altogether. End any avenue of vulnerability. Don't allow thoughts of his past 'good guy' image to lessen the reality of his disorder. 12. THE RAGER flies off the handle for little or no provocation. Has a severely disproportionate overreaction. Childish tantrums. His rage can be intimidating. He wants control, attention and compliance. In our hurt and confusion we struggle to make things right. Any reaction is his payoff. He seeks both good or bad attention. Even our fear, crying, yelling, screaming, name calling, hatred are his objectives. If he can get attention by cruelty he will do so. Defense Strategy: Manage your responses. Be fully independent. Don't take the bait of his verbal abuse. Expect emotional hurt. Volence is possible. 13. THE BRAINWASHER is very charismatic. He is able to manipulate others to obtain status, control, compliance, money, attention. Often found in religion and politics. He masterfully targets the naive, vulnerable, uneducated or mentally weak. Defense Strategy. Learn about brainwashing techniques. Listen to your gut instinct. Avoid them. 14. THE RISK-TAKING THRILL-SEEKER never learns from his past follies and bad judgment. Poor impulse control is a hallmark. Defense Strategy: Don't get involved. Use your own good judgement. Say No. 15. THE PARANOID NARCISSIST is suspicious of everything usually for no reason. Terrified of exposure and may be dangerous if threatened. Suddenly ends relationships if he anticipates exposure or abandonment. Defense Strategy: Give him no reason to be suspicious of you. Let some things slide. Protect yourself if you anticipate violence. 16. THE IMAGE MAKER will flaunt his 'toys', his children, his wife, his credentials and accomplishments. Admiration, attention, even glances from others, our envy or our fear are his objective. He is never satisfied. We see his false mask of arrogance and haughty strut as he demands center stage. He will alter his mask at will to appear pitiful, inept, solicitous, concerned, or haughty and superior. Appears the the perfect father, husband, friend - to those outside his home. Defense Strategy: Ignore his childlike behaviours. Know his payoff is getting attention, deceiving or abusing others. Provide him with 'supply' to avert problems. 17. THE EMOTIONAL VACUUM is the cruellest blow of all. We learn his lack of empathy. He has deceived us by his cunning ability to mimic human emotions. We are left numbed by the realization. It is incomprehensible and painful. We now remember times we saw his cold vacant eyes and when he showed odd reactions. Those closest to him become objectified and expendable. Defense Strategy: Face the reality. They can deceive trained professionals. 18. THE SAINTLY NARCISSIST proclaims high moral standing. Accuses others of immorality. "Hang 'em high" he says about the murderer on the 6:00 news. This hypocrite lies, cheats, schemes, corrupts, abuses, deceives, controls, manipulates and torments while portraying himself of high morals. Defense Strategy: Learn the red flags of behaviour. Be suspicious of people claiming high morals. Can be spotted at a church near you. 19. THE CALLING-CARD NARCISSIST forewarns his targets. Early in the relationship he may 'slip up' revealing his nature saying "You need to protect yourself around me" or "Watch out, you never know what I'm up to." We laugh along with him and misinterpret his words. Years later, coping with the devastation left behind, his victims recall the chilling warning. Defense Strategy: Know the red flags and be suspicious of the intentions of others. 20. THE PENITENT NARCISSIST says "I've behaved horribly, I'll change, I love you, I'll go for therapy." Appears to 'come clean' admitting past abuse and asking forgiveness. Claims we are at fault and need to change too. The sincerity of his words and actions appear convincing. We learn his words are verbal hooks. He knows our vulnerabilities and what buttons to push. We question our judgement about his disorder. We can disregard "Fool me once..." We hope for change and minimize past abuse. With a successful retargeting attempt, this N will enjoy his second reign of terror even more if we allow him back in our lives. Defense Strategy: Expect this. Self-impose a "No Contact" rule. Focus on the reality of his disorder. Remember past abuse. Join a support group. Enjoy life free of the Narcissist!! The male gender is used. Your abuser may well be female. You are welcome to use this page for non-commercial purpose with creditation/link to our site. link removed My N had 19 of the 20 traits. Some will only display 4 or 5 traits to be diagnosed as NPD. And as far as him getting help? "The clinical term is Narcissism, a personality disorder that has no known cause and no known cure." They will NEVER ADMIT that there is anything wrong with them. There is NO CURE for NPD. It is what it is. If you feel like you are or MAY HAVE BEEN involved with a N, please educate yourself. Use the link provided above... read all that you can. LEARN, UNDERSTAND, AND HEAL.

Tired Man - My relationship with this person lasted approximately 15 months - but it was completely different than a normal relationship with a "sane" person. The damage that is done within a relationship with a person like this is severe. It's a sad reality that people who are involved with a N/P really have no idea that these conditions even EXIST until they are so deep in it that they start to search for answers because we can't get out, they twist reality - we don't know what's real, right etc... We have HUGE A-ha!!! moments when we figure out that we've been dealing with is a person with a Personality Disorder... all the questions are answered... An unfortunate discovery is that there is no cure, no recovery for them - they are what they are - they CAN NOT change - and SO the ONLY option for us is NC - as hard as that is because we are literally "addicted" to them... "Detoxing" from them is literally like coming off of a drug. Therapy, medication and support groups are a huge help... but sometimes the pull to them is so over-whelming that it is nearly impossible to leave them. People who have not experienced a relationship with a N/P do not understand and jump to condemn the victim - that we should just leave or that WE must have a problem, or that we deserve it because we put up with it. It's a relief to learn that is a slow process of entrapment with these predators, and once you're hooked, it's nearly impossible to free yourself. Once again - hard to understand unless you're educated in the consequences of PD's. There is hope through NC though... and in most of our cases - literally a life saver!

I just wanted to include an update - it's been 15 days NC, 16 days since I've seen him!!! I was never able to make it past day 5 NC before... I'm doing okay, better emotionally since I finally got my period - maybe all these darn hormones will subside now! LOL I've only cried twice. Yes, sometimes it's over-whelming - but to know I'm taking control of the situation and not letting him hurt me any more is probably the best self-esteem builder there is!!! I've experienced a whole slew of emotions from relief, to anger, to indifference, to loneliness, to fear, to grief, to exhaustion. I haven't quite hit "happiness" yet but I'm thinking 2 weeks out is still probably too soon. I find myself missing the good things about him so I return here alot, re-reading my previous posts - he sure put my through alot. Glad I finally know what I was dealing with - yes, education is the key. Funny that 1% of the population out there are narcissists/psychopaths - that means there's at least 3 million others in the US - eek!!! LOL But, I'm definitely on my way into recovery and wanted to express my thanks to those of you who helped me along the way! And to all of you that are going through the process of NC - stay tough!!! Think how better off we'll be when we come out on the other side of misery and find that we're strong, happy and finally HEALTHY people!!! They are EX's for a REASON - maintain NC!!! You CAN get through this!!! *hugs* -Temp

Hi Hope - I'm doing great! I wanted to share with you some of the things I have learned. 100% without a doubt D has NPD "Narcissistic Personality Disorder". The reason WHY I fell in love with him is because they are experts at "mirroring" - definition: During the beginning phase of the relationship, they display back to you everything that you give them. If you are a funny, loving, caring, upbeat person; those qualities will be presented back to you - allowing you to think that WOW we have so much in common etc etc etc -in essense - you fall in love with the type of person YOU are... and if you're a good person, that's easy to love. Their victims are called "targets" - we are actually CHOSEN by them. After they have you hooked, the mirroring stops. You are rejected, insulted, cut down, demeaned - because they were so wonderful the "target" wonders what we did to cause this sudden change in their partner. We try and change, compromise, do whatever it takes to get that person we first met back. This is called "the dance". Unfortunately, that person never existed in the first place. They are skillfully deceptive, self-serving, incapable of true emotion, they will back-stabbed, lie, isolate, control. They will abuse substances - any substance, and encourage you to follow suit. They manipulate, have poor impulse control, are suspicious and accusatory. They blame you for everything that has gone wrong, they will never admit anything is THEIR fault because to do that would be admitting they are not PERFECT. Their expectations of you are so great, they can not be filled. They lack empathy, they are devoid of emotion. They will rage at their target - called Projection. When they say we are bad, unworthy, the reason everything is going wrong, etc - they are essential blaming everything on the victim that THEY THEMSELVES are. They can not accept, not will ever accept that anything is wrong with them. The next step is called D&D: "Devalue & Discard" - they will break their victim down (Devalue) until there is nothing left of their self-respect, dignity etc. Eventually, the victims may "see" them for who they truly are - this is the stage I have been in lately with D. And when it no longer becomes fun, they discard their victim without a second thought - for a new "target". See attached email from D: Needless to say, I was the one who walked out on HIM but a warped perception of reality is one of their traits. He will never believe it was I who essentially left HIM that day. I am completing day 3 of absolutely strict NO CONTACT. I had first thought I was just dealing with alcoholism, which can be cured, with help they can stop. I had always maintained hope that he'd be different, or COULD be different if he got that under control - but with D, the substance abuse is just PART of his mental illness. There is NO CURE for personality disorders - there is no cure for NPD - period. There is no hope of him ever changing - he will always be a narcissist, and knowing that, I am able to maintain NC, and WILL FOREVER. He is mentally ill, there is no hope. Clinically proven that no amount of drugs, therapy, prayer, tears - whatever - will help the situation. He is what he is... And because of that, I am walking away from it all. I am not hurting anymore, Hope. I am so much more educated than I was 4 days ago. They say that it is nearly impossible for a victim to leave their narcissist. Well, I'm out to prove them wrong. I'm hoping that I have upset his fragile self-image so much that he doesn't WANT to return to me. Either way, I'm not going back. EVER. The only way to ensure that it is over forever - is strict NO CONTACT. This forum that I found is actually therapist recommended. There are so many people there - living it every day like I have. They understand. I have finally found a place where I can begin to heal. Thank God for that because this has been such a crazy ride... but such is the way with Narcissists. And if anyone reading this can relate to anything I've said here, understand it is NOT YOUR FAULT. NC is the only way to truly end it. They can not change. They will be this way with every other person who enters their lives. People are OBJECTS to them... They are incapable of love. No, you won't be the one to change them... you are NOT SPECIAL to them even though they try to make you believe that you are. My best advice, educate yourself. I thank God I did... and am now able to start my way into recovery. *hugs* to everyone -Temp

Thanks both of you, I know how frustrating all of this is. Trust me, I, more than anyone know. You said to research myself Salt, and I did just that. Why do women stay in/ go back to abusive relationships. The answer: Stockholm Syndrome. Victims even after they are out of the situation will still defend, go back to and cover for their abuser. I called Chrysalis today - it's an abused woman's counseling service. Usually it is for physically abused women, so I'm not sure if I will qualitfy for their program or not. But I figured anything's better than nothing at this point. No, I have never been a victim in anything. I think that I do have an issue with abandonment though, stemming from being dropped off at a very NAIVE & sheltered age of 15 to a upscale college prep school in MA - thousands of miles away from any family. I still have nightmares about that and remember the depths of depression I fell into being separated from my loved ones. From this I think I must be doing ANYTHING not to be alone - yet I love my alone time, so what gives? I'm determined though, I found a forum that is filled with people who have gone through and are experiencing the same things I am. I'm realizing that this abuse is not just particular to my and D's situation, but that it is predictible throughout any relationship with a person with D's personality disorder. I'm not alone in the things I have let myself suffer through. They insist that NC is the absolute and only way to escape from this situation. I think I'm ready. I fully agree with you, Hope - after the past 2 weeks, the things that he's done to me are pretty much unforgiveable. I'm actually starting to feel anger, just a little bit. I'm not sad, I'm not hurt. But I want out.

I want to include this quote from a book called "Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisted" Perhaps this sheds some light on my situation. It's not an excuse, just a reality of my life.

You are absolutely right, Salt. And I 100% agree with you that what I put up with and allow to be done to me is ridiculous. As I have said before, I absolutely have no control of this situation. Do I deserve it? Perhaps... because I love him that much, even though he is undeserving. (Perhaps love is not the right word here - I'm controlled) Such is the conditioned behavior of those involved with a narcissist. I happen to be trying (meek efforts, i know) to get out of this situation after only a year & 1/2 - others remain in it for many more years than I have. And they are just as degraded and humiliated as I have been. One website I was on trying to educate myself, trying to understand, said exactly that. People will not understand how a woman, even a highly intelligent one, could allow this to happen to her, that it is near impossible to break free from, because the victim is too weak and their abuser won't let them go. I post what I go through to document it for myself, so I can remember, and also to get feedback like you've left for me. I do NOT think clearly when it comes to him. I do not make rational choices or decisions. This is his creation - kinda of like the boiling frog theory. I've become used to this treatment - and so I accept it as my reality. Yes, it is disgusting - what he does to me, what happens to me, what I tolerate on an almost daily basis. He is an abuser - and a darn good one. Trust me, I value your input - even if it is harsh, that just may be what I need. Temp

I think I'm just a glutton for punishment. The ex and I hung out this weekend; he came over Saturday afternoon and immediately brought up the fact that he met some petite little "hottie" the night before that his shirt was covered in lipstick, etc. Yeah, it hurt to hear because I'm definitely not "petite" – I stand 5'7" without heels. That he left with the hottest girl in the place, etc. He then accused me once again for causing "contention" in his life. This is his new word, you see. "Contention". I told him that for him to continue to bring this up he must be having mixed feelings about me and needs something to pin on me. I asked him for one TRUE example of how I cause this conflict and he brings up an issue that occurred over a year ago with his family. There is this family website that allows pics to be uploaded and commented on by its users. He made me part of his family website. He and I and a few of his brothers and their girlfriends made funny little remarks to the pics that we all posted and in response to something I posted a family member over-seas outwardly attacked me. "D" responded hatefully and it started a huge uproar. Because of the horrible things that were said about me, I withdrew from the family website and never went back. He is now blaming ME for this entire incident. Nothing I had said was out of line etc, it was just a judgmental individual striking out at me. Yet, it was I that caused this "contention"! Um, ok? I have since then been around these particular individuals and have never brought the subject up and have always been completely respectful and polite to his entire family. I immediately started crying out of hurt and frustration. I'm so tired of having to defend myself, and being blamed for the things that are caused by him and his hateful family. We then went dancing at a hot club in Scottsdale, and had a blast! There were beautiful people there, both men and women. I think this made him uncomfortable because he definitely doesn't have "the look" and he knows it. He's a short little dumpy guy, no toning, with a boyish face. Kinda looks like that hobbit in Lord of the Rings, Frodo – yeah, he's cute but do you really want one??? LOL and, – it was quite obvious that I attracted attention. He must have felt threatened. Well, after the bar, it must have been eating at him because we were talking about the fun we had and I asked him if he saw the guy that had walked directly up to me while we were dancing and that it made me uncomfortable and I kept looking away and finally turned my back on the guy. I was hoping that the guy wasn't about to grab me and dance which might have started something between him and "D". Well, D exploded. Saying this is what he means by me causing "contention". That he was having fun at the bar and then I cause this drama. I was stunned into silence at first. Was he serious that it is MY fault that this guy came up to me??? I got fed up and told him to shut his face, that he must have bi-polar disorder or something. He makes no logical sense and it makes me wonder if he has alcoholic dementia already or just a personality disorder – either of which, rational minds will never be able to comprehend because it doesn't make any sense! Most of Sunday was spent sleeping, cuddling, and being intimate with each other… (except for the time he was searching for cute girls online to be move into the new condo he's renting – I had to ask him to refrain from searching for women while he was at my house). I guess being exhausted and hung over I wasn't as emotionally strong as I have felt lately and started talking to him about "us" and told him that I loved him. He said we're just friends with benefits and refused to talk to me. I told him that hurt me and said that he should probably just leave and he got up out of bed, and walked out, leaving me wrapped in a sheet crying on the floor. Funny that how after he leaves, it's like the fog lifts and I can think clearly. Amazing, the power and control he has over me. But the second he leaves, it's like the spell is broken and I'm ok. I stopped crying and immediately felt better. Amazing that in the span of 22 hours this guy made me cry twice and caused a fight after the club. How obvious that he is the cause of his own drama in his life and not me. I need the distance from him. I also sent him an IM stating we should not have sex anymore, because I don't like knowing he's just using me. Amazing that he can sit there, say that he loves me etc and be lying to my face. This whole thing makes me sick, I'm angry I can't stand up to him, I'm angry that I can't walk away from him, I'm angry that I'm not in control… especially of myself. What is it going to take for this to be over??? When I have to check myself into an insane asylum??? He's tearing me apart! Ugh!

Salt – He'll be turning 31 this year and I have no idea why I continue to talk to him etc. I think it's because of the kind of person I am. I forgive very easily, I tend to forget very easily too, that's why I posted that IM – I'm trying to keep it fresh in my mind. I also got a few lovely emails from him yesterday during work; one saying "I'm so proud of the way I dumped you! F(omitted by me) you in the (omitted by me) and sent you packin'!!! Slapped your "butt" – (real word omitted) down when you text msg'd me being all lame... YAY ME!!!" and another "Roses are Red, Violets are Blue, Trash is dumped and so are YOU" and another that said "Welcome to Dumpedville – Population – YOU" – sigh… Niiiiice, huh? Funny, I was the one who walked out on him; but honestly it doesn't matter who dumped who. I simply don't care anymore, and have reached a point where I truly do not want him back. Yeah, it took a LONG time for me to get to that point, but I'm an awesome girl and deserve so much more. Those emails didn't even affect me – AT ALL. I'm so far past the hurt now, I've dealt with so much that I'm just numb to it all. I'm willing to let him buy that extra phone off me because I know he needs it. That's just the kind of person I am. If I am able to help someone, I will – even if that person is one of the most cruel people I have ever come accross – the kind of person HE is does not change the person that I AM, and so if he needs the phone, he can pay me for it. As for me, well, I actually DO have a self-esteem. I'm pretty, smart and have no problem attracting men. I'm just TOO NICE and I am walked all over because of that. And I feel that no one is worth giving up on – that people in my life are SPECIAL and my loyalty to them is darn near unbreakable. But once it's severed, it's severed for good. More later…A.

Figured I'd include this IM from early this morning since I tend to forget how rude he is to me sometimes! another example of the way I am spoken to all the time - although this happened to be more docile than most. And HE wants ME out of HIS life??? I am way too good to him, I should just tell him to kiss off about my extra phone, too bad I'm a moron

Couldn't sleep last night, between these darn diet pills and the anti-depressant, I was up all night again. It's been quite awhile since I can remember sleeping more than 5 hours at one time. But, I'm holding up pretty good, got a little nervous when I had some pains down my left arm today, my B/P was high and my pulse was 132 bpm. Maybe I should lay off the drugs for a couple days...LOL... but I'm so determined to lose another 30 pounds that I'd risk having a heart attack for it! LOL I got a lovely email from him today: My response: As usual, you were blaming me for everything, not taking responsibility. Yup, it most definitely is my fault that you were such a pig, you're right. I should never have walked out and let you go out on dates with girls while you were with me, I should have never cried when you called me names, I should have never pleaded with you not to move in with 2 women, I should have never gotten upset that you were always lying to me, I should have never questioned you on the other girls' text messages on your phone or why you felt you had to delete your responses. I should have just kept quiet, right? Like a good little woman and swallow every dang thing you put me through! Well, guess what!?! I may have come back to you over and over again, but those things will NEVER be okay to me! NEVER! And you can blame me, hate me - whatever makes it easier for you to get over me and forget me, but know - and I mean KNOW - that how you treated me was completely and totally WRONG. I LOVED YOU and because of that devotion I allowed myself to be put through a year and 1/2 of misery to be by your side! And if you believe for one second that ANY OF THIS is my fault then you are deluding yourself. Um, wow - where'd that come from? My little rant for this evening. Sorry I guess it just ticks me off that HE doesn't want to talk to ME ever again. What the heck have I done? I'm not a bad person! It's offensive to me that someone could possibly dislike me THAT much. I'm really sensitive to that - there is no one that I know that DIDN'T like me after they had met me. I suppose it's all part of his warped personality and I should forget it, but it feels just like another of his put downs, another way to manipulate me, bring me down - one final kick to the ribs. Sigh, well, someday this will all be done and over with... just wishing I was already there... On my way into Scottsdale - more later...A.

Hey Sexy! He most definitely was a manipulating control freak! I believe he was even a narcissist. He had no conscience at all! Unfortunately, I allowed very degrading things to happen to my body. Good for you for saying NO! Yeah, you get to a point where it all turns kinda numb... I have just accepted him for what he is and that there is no help for him, and that he'll never change... Yet, I don't hate him. I'm not even angry with him. It's almost like hating someone with terminal cancer - they can't help it, they can't change it and when they go, just look at it like all the pain and suffering is finally over. I got this email today (and I'm gonna include it when I make my post for today too) What a sweetheart! LOL I could go on about this but I'll wait and put it in my post... But it's funny how he accepts absolutely NO responsibility for his actions. Like I had said earlier, he blames me. That I bring contention into his life. Whateva! But, what he doesn't realize is that I'll never accept the blame - it is not mine to take. I forgave him, tolerated him as best I could, satisfied him in ways that most women won't and loved him like crazy. And yeah, Sexy, he did a number on me - lol - all because he knew I loved him and that I would be there no matter what.