catfeeder

Ahh! Okay, got it. Thanks, YC. We see this in all sexes, and of course, they play to and attract the 'saviors' among us. While some people have a learned dependency, this continues to be fed by those who have a co-dependency that attempts to fix others. So what it it that you would you like to discuss about this? Is there a specific instance that we might be able to help with?

What would be the context of such a damsel, and would these be the only options to describe anyone who might help her? I, myself a woman, have been harmed while helping other women in domestic violence situations. Does this make me unhealthy, toxic or a simp? Maybe you can offer some examples of the types of scenarios you have in mind so we can comment?

I agree. What the hell, OP? Your answer to your wife's deception as a responsible citizen and family man is to threaten assault, and go attempt it? Really? Look, Dad. The future of your children and your relationship with them rides on your ability to keep your head, exercise self control, AND manage your adult self like a reasoning human being. Countless folks have advised you to seek legal advice. If you're not willing to start there to learn the realities of what you potentially face, as opposed to getting yourself thrown into prison, then how can a bunch of strangers on an Internet forum help you? Either you are smart enough to direct your intelligence toward finding a reasonable course of action that preserves your access to your own children, or you are too invested in acting like a brute to consider that. Your call.

Oh, I so understand, dearest. If you were simply reflexive this way--the end--as we've all seen in other instances where threads are closed, and without the consideration and your obvious investment in doing such work, I'd just back off, make an occasional comment, but offer zero to little investment myself, knowing that the thing will just be shut down the moment someone tips the scale. But you are an inspiration. You're a model for walking talk. You may be as flawed as the rest of us, and as fine as the best of us, yet you stand out because you are doing WORK consistently, and I just hate to see that get shut down by a reaction-in-the-moment when you can, instead, take a breather and 'allow' for imperfection. Go meditate, consult with the highest and strongest intelligence that you own, and decide whether some stranger's misunderstanding of a given word or your overall intent is REALLY that important in the scheme of the larger picture. Well? You'll never learn that bigger picture unless you allow the collective scheme to unfold and either self-correct over time or otherwise spin out and be gently reminded by you of the original topic and the limits of the focus you want to acknowledge. I do understand the impulse to 'correct' another, and yet, plenty of other posters do step up to point out misunderstandings or otherwise redirect folks to more current inputs. However, you only get to see that afterward without being able to fully appreciate it--because you're quickly reflexive and hyper-focused on micro-corrections. And this exhausts you when you could otherwise enjoy the overall outcomes and exchanges that unfold underneath what you've created. Allow. Make that part of your mantra. Every 'bad' word is not the final word, and every misunderstanding is not a reflection on you. Focus, instead, on your intent, but allow for the natural progression of others to catch up, to self-correct or otherwise be influenced or overrun by a natural flow of intelligence--AND without an impulsive need to 'micro-manage' that. You will thank yourself later for what you do not try to control today. Meanwhile, I'm so pleased with you for sharing with us the nature of your real life exploration! Keep doing you, and keep enjoying your growth and challenges. My heart hopes for a wildly fun and loving outcome for you. Best, Cat

Yes, and so you see why, coming from someone who has shared this tendency with you, it's important to unspin this mentality. Not only because it harms your own enjoyment of anything less than perfection, it impacts your time, your focus and your relationships--with co-workers, with your husband, with your children. There is NO 'up' side to it. If it's useful to wrap this tendency into a predisposition for addiction, you can do that, but that alone does nothing to resolve it for you. As with any addiction, the internal work is the work, the external work is the work, and nothing but doing that specific work can resolve the problem. And this is why I proposed revisiting any mentor, counselor or group that has helped to influence your recovery in the past. However, the deeper work beyond abstinence of a substance isn't within the same scope. This doesn't imply that the behaviors aren't related (lets call those 'addiction behaviors', 'compulsive behaviors', and 'obsessive behaviors'), but rather, it suggests that 'self medicating' through substances can be interchangeable with compulsive behaviors (currently work) or obsessing over an extreme focus (currently work). Does any of this sound like stuff that can be effectively 'treated' in a casual, or amateur way--without reaching for trained and professional help? Depending on your geographic location, the fact that you are working may afford you access to benefits called EAB, 'Employee Assistance Benefits' or something similar. I used such benefits during the aftermath of a hurricane, where I lost my home and all my belongings. It allowed me 3 free confidential sessions with my choice of a therapist listed as approved providers. So I compared that list with one from my insurance company to narrow down providers common to both lists. This was important in case I wanted to continue work with that specific provider. I hope you will continue to write here if it's helpful, but also because I care about your process and your outcome. Holding you in my thoughts.

Yaaay, you! ...and him! I'm so glad, I'm bowled-over. And ... cookies. From a lady who might be old enough to be your grandma, please take this with your best interests at heart... We all love to analyze. When people here do it in your threads, and they parse your words, or they broad brush assumptions or they split hairs over whatever's interesting to them, and it offends you, I hope you will please consider pulling back just enough to recognize that you do not 'owe' every little molecule of a slight, or mischaracterization, or misunderstanding, the attention and the energy of a defense and a debate? I watched you get exhausted last night, and unless you enjoy that, then for what? You so often close your threads, which is unfortunate for this community. You are allowed to step away from a thread. You are allowed to simply overlook any responses you don't like in favor of responding to those from which you feel encouragement and support. You are allowed to hide from view the posts of those who annoy you. But I don't understand why you feel such pressure to 'manage' each and every response as though it's inexplicably important--and to such a degree that you end up locking each of your threads as though it must contain a last word posted exactly the way you want it? You do understand how this feels to each of us as participants when you've seen others do this, right? Let's celebrate your great date and the fun one to come! And let's see if you might be willing to use your creative and wonderful thoughts and learning processes in a spirit of generosity to those who come here behind you, who can learn from you as well. Practice thinking of any posts that sound critical (and nit-picky) as a reflection on the author rather than on you. (Those always speak for themselves.) You have nothing to be ashamed of, and you are an inspiration to those around you who are dating and learning and growing. (((Big HUG))), Cat

You do make sense, and I hope it's some comfort to know that most of us can relate, at least to one degree or another, to what you say. It feels isolating, as though nobody else suffers the same problems, even though such feelings are universal--some people just tap into them occasionally, while others tap into them all of the time. Even the most confident person you know can have a day or a spell of days or weeks or months where they reach into that part of themselves that can view the world through a lens that overlooks all of their accomplishments, and finds instead, exactly the proof they need to see themselves as unloved, unlovable and weak.This is why the suicide hotlines are not just for emergencies, like a 911 number, but rather they are for 'prevention'. They are often serviced by people who've been exactly where you are, and yet because they allowed someone to help them, they became able to tap different aspects of themselves and are now trained and capable of helping the next person through this. You did the same thing to get sober, only now you're forgetting those skills because you're tapped into a deeper place and can't remember how to climb out. So why not do two things? First, contact one of the hotlines on the Internet to discuss your feelings with them. If one person isn't helpful, call the next. Learn from them how to stabilize at least just enough for the second step. That would be reaching back to your recovery community as though you're seeking their help for the first time. My heart goes out to you, and I hope you'll write more if it helps.

This is something important to consider, and mainly because you wrote this: I get this. I was an overachiever exactly because of this. I suffered the A+ student syndrome through a good part of my career, and all the way through my Master's degree because I didn't know where the bar was set. So because I would view anything less than an A+ as criticism of my work, I became obsessive about leaping so far over that imaginary bar, there could be no room for a lesser grade. That was lonely. I saw the people around me relaxed and playful and delivering presentations and submitting work so far below what I believed was acceptable, yet they'd get good grades and still advance along with me. REALLY? Well, doesn't this sound like what you're doing, especially when you take over other peoples work? A therapist can not only help you with your self esteem bottom line, but you'll have someone to help you review your cut-back plans and hold you accountable to reporting actual progress in this area. You'll also challenge yourself to take private criticism from your therapist and avoid playing "the good patient" who cannot be honest with a therapist just because you're striving to get an A+ in therapy! Instead, you can raise this with the therapist, up front, and ask to be busted on your BS so you can learn how to relax and get real. Head high, but not too high 🙂

What, exactly, do you feel guilty about? Challenge yourself on that. She knows how to press your buttons, because she installed them. You knew she'd drop the docile act the moment you didn't comply, so why would you be surprised by the drama routine? Head high, and good job blocking her. You will thank yourself.

You can attempt to play friendzies and harm yourself further, or you can recognize that you are not her friend at this time, because friends operate as equals, they don't hold an agenda. I would tell this woman that you are walking away while you both still think highly of one another. She's free to settle her old business, and you're sparing yourself from any need for a second breakup should she reconcile with her ex. She is welcome to contact you in the future should she find herself completely free and clear of all ties to a prior lover, both physically and emotionally, and she's healed and stabilized solo rather than reaching for a rebound. If you are still available at that point, maybe you can meet to catch up. Otherwise, you wish her the best. This leaves your door open a crack while liberating you to grieve and heal and formulate your own plans to cultivate your own future. Should ex ever contact you to reconcile, you'll have made the climb to your own higher ground, and you'll be far better positioned to make wise decisions from that place. This is a win/win, because should ex not contact you to reconcile, you'll have already made the headway in healing. You can't do that while orbiting her in stagnation. Head high.

So funny, I thought the same thing. Asking myself, "Electronically? Really? Is this cold-messaged, or have you been chatting at all, first? Has he offered any of this info about himself?" I mean, what I'm looking for, that's easy. So easy, it would be in my profile--so apparently, dude is not interested enough to read a profile. But romantic vision? That would make me squirm. Sounds romance-scammy, I dunno--like asking for a template. @yogacat, I don't think it's just you. I guess context means a lot. Do these questions come in after you've messaged a bit? Are they set up like numbered questions on a quiz?

I think you've chosen an excellent way to frame the problem. Now you can use your management skills to create and run two projects: Work Optimization and Family Life. Manage these both together as 'your job'. Also consider the steps you are still taking today to manage your sobriety versus those you used to get sober. You may want to revisit some of those older steps to learn whether you can move some of your work focus back onto working your sobriety. You might feel more secure and less prone to using work as a means to compensate for insecurity. Define your scope of work. How much of your current focus falls directly within that scope? How much out-of-scope work directly impacts you, versus how much of it are you just using to prevent yourself from moving your focus to your family? Is the distance you create with your family due to feeling less than capable with them, and if so, what steps can you take to manage that discomfort as a priority? This can avoid snowballing the problem into the future. Identify sub-issues. For instance, taking over work that isn't being done to your standards. Is this work being done by those you manage? If so, why not find better ways to manage the people, and if the people are sub-par, stop wasting your management time on lost causes and replace them with better people? If you are not managing these people, design a process for those tasks and present it to your manager instead of taking over the work itself. Your manager will determine how many of your suggestions can be implemented, and you can also allow that person to deal with the outcomes. Use cost/benefit analyses to weigh potential outcomes if you were to minimize work conversations after hours. This can help you to re-order your priorities by clarifying whether those outcomes weigh more than those of distancing yourself from your family. Head high, congrats on your sobriety, and feel free to write more if it helps.

I understand. I had a long relationship with an electronics engineer while I sucked at math. He tutored me through college classes and helped to build my confidence beyond what I could have imagined. So maybe think in terms less adversarial? You have this fabulous expert on YOUR side, and she loves to teach. Why not see what you can learn from her, and then maybe your guy friends will straighten up and fly right.

I have no quarrel with biological or evolutionary distinctions between sexes, and my point certainly has nothing to with advocating for either female or male supremacy. Whether a system wants to segment people by sex or by wealth or by any other means, there have been, as you point out, and there will always be, people who will push for progression past their own marginalization. None of this is new, so I simply don't buy into the notion that there is some sudden and dire collapse in the dating world because of it. If there is a segment of men who are pulling out of dating and mating, they are well within their rights to do so. And if there is a sub-segment of those men who also want to regard the entire population of women with hostility, then they have effectively self-screened and have done each woman a favor if she wants to date a man who is not hostile toward her. There is nothing 'radical' about the idea that humans seek mates that match their values and share their goals and desires. Where women have made progress in equality of rights as human beings, we could not have done so without the expanding number of men who share, respect and uphold such equality. Those who don't agree with such progress will find one another, as will those who agree. This isn't rocket science, and it's also not a crisis.

Thanks for the discussion, Coilly. My point was not about "gotcha". It was about those who want to hold up the word 'feminism' as a dirty one and use it as their reason to justify dropping out of today's dating pool. I think that's fine, because if they want to imbue that word with hostility, and then broadly apply that hostility toward every woman who exists within that dating pool, then there they are--not likely to impress any woman who doesn't appreciate the hostility. I don't view that as a collapse of dating or mating. Humans have the widest spectrum of any mammal in terms of male participation in mating and child rearing, ranging from donating a teaspoon of sperm all the way up to becoming a baby wearing, bottle feeding, softball throwing Dad. Some women's definition of a 'powerful' man today has become a man who will power a stroller. And plenty of men are even willing to call themselves a 'feminist'. Yet I get that there are some men who must automatically couple the word 'feminist' with 'radical' or must find ways to somehow separate it away from 'suffrage' starting with control over women's bodies, or will equate it to some imagined perverse desire for an 'abortion' or are otherwise only willing to charge the word with negativity and use it as a slur. And where that's the case, those men are welcome to keep it as their blanket for whatever they want to project onto it. I just don't have to buy into the idea that this creates some kind of dating and mating crisis for the women of the world and the men who love and support us.