your opinions?? - my idea of gayness

[turqoise]

hi everyone,

this is my first post in a while.

i came here asking lots of questions a while back and learned a lot - thanks everyone! one of the things that i struggled with was the fact that i might be lesbian. it * * * *ing freaked me out because of all the prejudice that i associated with it...until yesterday.

i had an epiphany which i want other people to confirm.

 

ok. i always that being gay was about your sexual orientation. that`s what we learn and hear all the time. it freaked me out because though i thought i might like girls, it disgusted me to think about having sex with a girl.

but do you know what??

 

i reckon being gay (or lesbian, at least) is when your mind is attracted to minds of the same sex.

 

as someone who might be gay, i have always found that guys, while straightforward to talk to, are not as interesting to talk to as girls, who have this complexity about them.

i think stright-forward mind + complex mind = harmony.

i think for gay people (or anyone in between at any degree) their minds aren`t the usual minds you find in a straight guy or girl. so naturally a gay guy won`t find the same harmony with a girl and vice versa.

 

Straight or gay, you fall in love with someone because of their mind, their personality, their energy first and foremost, not because of their sexuality. i think it`s misleading and wrong to say that being gay is all about sexual attraction. I think that is what gives some people the impression that gay people are really sexual, and maybe even disgusting or lesser than straight people .

 

so. being gay should be defined as: being mentally, emotionally, physically attracted to someone of the same sex. don`t you reckon??

[g1234567890h]

Personally I don't really care about sexual orientation. If you like the other person and he or she does it for you, then just go for it. I'm a guy and I'm currently in a relationship with a girl but I've been attracted to guys before. She's in a relationship with me but she had a lesbian relationship for a while. I think you should find someone who's mutually attracted to you and then figure out your orientation.

[Cid]

q123 you have hit the nail on the head, I am married to my wife but I have been attracted to men before. If you like someone and they like you who cares if you are both of the same sex. Just go for it and don't look back.

[IntoTheFire]

I think all 3 of you make very good points.

 

turqoise Just reading what you wrote there made me smile. I have no idea why, but it did. What you said about the complexity of girls is something I definitely agree with. Generally speaking, they have so much depth and it's very intriguing.

 

Nobody falls in love with 1 dimension of a person. That's what lust is for As you say, it's multiple factors which have the effect, and I think people should actually remember that to have the feeling of falling for someone is something some people never get to experience in their whole lives.

 

For me, with my friends or if I had kids I'd just be very happy for them that they had found the love, regardless of gender. I presume most people agree? If so, why do so many people not apply the same thing to themselves and just go with the flow?

[shellshocked]

For me it's always been about the emotional connection.

 

For whatever reason, I've always been more emotionally

connected to women.

I've had some great relationships with guys in the past,

but never that d e e p connection that I get with a woman.

 

When i realized that....

THAT'S when i realized (and accepted) that I was gay.

[turqoise]

thanks for your replies guys (girls, everyone). i really like it that there are so many people who accept gayness. you are all people that i would love to be around, definitely. my post was actually less about being afraid of being gay, and more about the what`s implied when you say you`re gay.

 

shellshocked says that it`s more an emotional attraction. the others seem to say that it`s some kind of mental/emotional attraction.

 

the current definition of being gay emphasises sexual attraction. for me, it implies that gay people are more sexual than striaght people, like they`re thinking of sex all the time or when they meet someone they`re thinking mainly of having sex with them:

`a person, usually a man, who is sexually attracted to people of the same sex`-oxford).

i think this is a big reason for the stigma attached to being gay, and i want to know whether you agree that this definition sucks.

 

i also wanted to ask whether you would agree more with my definition of gay:

`a person who is mentally, emotionally and physically attracted to someone of the same sex`)

 

i just think that it would be easier to accept gay people and being gay yourself if `being gay` didn`t focus on the sex part.

[IntoTheFire]

turqoise - I've never heard that Oxford definition. It absolutely does suck. How can they write that it's usually a guy thing to be gay? That's ridiculous. The only basis they can go on for their claim is the people who are "out". Maybe if they didn't write such flatline things in their dictionary more people would be willing to accept their sexuality and thereforeeee they might get a more accurate picture of which sex has more of the sex maniacs eh?

 

On the sex maniac point, I agree that the sexual attraction quote suggests a purely sordid, physical, sex based relationship, which of course isn't the case.

 

I like your definition. Instead of implying the physical, sex based thing it implies a multi-dimensional thing. It suggests to me that you can look at someone and think they're hot, but if you don't have a mental and emotional stimulation from them, you don't have very much.

[pianoguy]

Hey turqouise,

 

I do like your definition! Another way to put it might be "someone who is romantically attracted to the same sex." Where romantic = physical, emotional, mental all wrapped into one.

 

To be fair, the Oxford definition of heterosexual is "someone who is sexually attracted to the opposite sex," so you can hardly accuse them of being unfair. The reason they said "usually a man" was because of linguistics- women that are attracted to other women are almost always called lesbians and not homosexuals. Try this experiment: think of a group of homosexuals. Is your group men or women?

 

I don't think the reason people think of homosexuals as being sex-centered is because of the defintion, I think it's because gay culture says that being gay is all about sex (here I'm thinking mainly of gay men, I can't really speak about lesbian culture). Most gay men ARE very promiscuous, careening from one drunken one-night-stand to the next.

 

The solution, of course, is simply to say no to gay culture. Gay culture is really quite stupid, and shallow, and I never had anything to do with, and that is fine with me. Hopefully as more gay men realize the happiness that is found in more meaningful relationships the culture will start to change.

 

Sorry about the rant, I spent much of the day surrounded by fluffy, shallow gay men. It's the kind of thing that almost makes me ashamed to be gay- no wonder everyone hates us, we're obnoxious as h***. I'd probably be homophobic if I weren't gay myself.

[turqoise]

thanks intothefire! yeah, we`re complex beings definitely...and definitions can restrict us so much, huh?

i saw this science programme today about sexuality - it began with the statement that in our world there are not just two sexes, though we usually think so in humans at least. There are organisms that have 4 sexes (AB, Ab, aB, ab), 7 sexes, even 30 sexes! it was the 4 sexes bit that got me thinking about homosexuality..though reproduction isn`t possible between homosexuals now, maybe we`re at the cusp of a sexual evolution! (haha...just kidding)

 

pianoguy, you put me in check i forgot about checking the heterosexual definition, though reading it, i don`t like that it`s also based on sex. being homosexual or gay is supposed to be the opposite equivalent, though i don`t think the terms are used in an evolutionary sense. Maybe there needs to just be a new term altogether that implies romantic attraction - i like the way you summarised it by the way

you made a great point that it could also be the gay culture that invites the sexual stigma.

hmm, i don`T know the gay culture that well, but whatever the reason, I`m just peeved that there`s so much sexual connotation that is stuck to gay, homosexual, lesbian. As i said it was a big reason why i didn`t/don`t want to think i might be gay. If i say im lesbian, the first thing that i think will pop into someone`s head is `lesbian lovers`! I`d rather be a gay guy than a lesbian girl...if you`re gay everyone loves you because you have style, and this energy, are interesting to talk to, and you have good taste! Lesbians...i don`t know. Though possibly being one, I wonder if lesbians have a tendency to be really honest and direct compared to other girls? is that cool??

[IntoTheFire]

Though possibly being one, I wonder if lesbians have a tendency to be really honest and direct compared to other girls? is that cool??

 

What do you mean by "though possibly being one"?

 

Have you not worked out what direction you want to take yet?

 

Join the club.

[pianoguy]

Hey turqouise,

 

Yeah- I agree that homosexual and heterosexual aren't very good words in general- actually English kind of sucks when it comes to love. (The French expression to fall in love means "to be struck by lightning" - isn't that cool???)

 

That's interesting that you say you'd rather by gay then a lesbian- I think I would too. Although, really, I'd just rather be ME than somebody else.

 

There are definitely alot of positive stereotypes that go along with being gay like you said. Our culture seems to be in a state of fascination- you look on any reality TV show and it's usually dominanted by gay men.

 

I think what the problem is is that gay men usually lose their own personality in an effort to become this gay icon culture thing. You look at a lot of gay men and they fit the stereotype perfectly, both in how they live, act, wear, talk, and their lifestyle. Very few gay men are born this way, so I'm convinced that they become this way in order to fit in.

 

If you look at me for example, I have many stereotypically "gay" qualities: I'm a musician, I'm a good cook, I'm sensitive, I'm not interested in sports, I drink wine not beer. On the other hand, I have stereotypically "straight" qualities also: I'm even-tempered and hate drama, I don't really care how I look in public, I prefer guys as friends to girls, I hate musical theatre with a passion, I have no fashion sense.

 

I think being gay has little impact on your personality as such. For example, when people find out I'm a good cook they say, "oh, that's because you're gay." No, it's not- it's because I like food. I learned to cook from my dad who is extremely straight.

 

I think alot of gay men just need to worry less about fitting into gay society, and just be themselves. The problem is that gay society often rejects these people.

 

I find it a bit funny that people do try to make me fit the stereotype even though I clearly don't. Back when I was "straight" if I commented on a girl's outfit she wouldn't give it a second thought. Now that I'm gay they take me much more seriously. The irony is my fashion sense is just as terrible as it always has been.

 

I guess I'm not really familiar with the lesbian stereotypes. I've always wondered what they were- can someone enlighten me? I know they're supposed to be direct, good with tools, and like sports and beer- anything else? (Not to be stereotypical but I've always wondered what the stereotype is)

[turqoise]

Have you not worked out what direction you want to take yet?

nope. i`m probably in denial; the two things that hit me when i thought i might be gay were:

1. i can`t have a normal family and kids and just live quietly among everyone.

2. people will think i`m into girl sex. which I`m not - i totally like having sex with guys and would miss that if i were in a female relationship.

ok, so i`m staying away from relationships, so i have no idea which gender i`ll be attracted to next. i mean, this could mean i`m bi, which i would be much happier with, but i have yet to meet a straight man who can keep me engaged and is also into me - and that`s the important thing in a relationship right?

 

Yeah- I agree that homosexual and heterosexual aren't very good words in general- actually English kind of sucks when it comes to love. (The French expression to fall in love means "to be struck by lightning" - isn't that cool???)

totally. english, english. I`ve been reading about english. i blame the lack of expression to the fact that it went through a stage of being a peasant language hundreds of years ago.

 

i make up words from time to time; maybe we should make new ones up. there needs to be a nicer word for lesbian, anyway.

 

I think being gay has little impact on your personality as such. For example, when people find out I'm a good cook they say, "oh, that's because you're gay." No, it's not- it's because I like food. I learned to cook from my dad who is extremely straight.

i don`t know...am i wrong when i get the impression that there is a higher proportion of gay men who are good at some form of art? like an instinctual tendency towards some things more than others? sort of like how there will always be a higher percentage of men who watch sports than women.

 

I think alot of gay men just need to worry less about fitting into gay society, and just be themselves. The problem is that gay society often rejects these people. QUOTE]

 

that`s super interesting insight of the gay community. so what happens to the rejected ones - where do they fit? really, i think it`s the era of gay being cool in the west but we may be looking at it as a `thing` rather than individual, real people. we, as a society, just don`t know you people! well, that`s what stuck me after my first two thoughts - there are actually so many fears and insecurities that can attach themselves to being gay, yet people don`t see these sides which show our humanness. So then the image is, gay people are into sex, and are objects...gay people= novelty sex toys. ok, i don`t about the truth of that idea, but you know what i`m saying.

 

I find it a bit funny that people do try to make me fit the stereotype even though I clearly don't. Back when I was "straight" if I commented on a girl's outfit she wouldn't give it a second thought. Now that I'm gay they take me much more seriously. The irony is my fashion sense is just as terrible as it always has been.

i told you gay is in.

 

i always thought that lesbians were checking girls out, adn were either butch and short-haired and had poor sense of style, and were a bit tunnel-visioned(sorry!!! i`m just being honest) but that`s based on the few lesbians I`ve met and more of what I`ve seen on tv and at parades.

[IntoTheFire]

turqoise dude I read what you wrote in your last post about the gay/straight/bi thing, and I totally identify with what you said, so I was gonna send you a PM, only you don't have that option on your profile.

[turqoise]

eh? let me check.