Difficult Situation -- Want to Move On

[browneyedgirl36]

Hi All --

 

I have been *lurking* on this forum for a few weeks and am impressed with the wise and thoughtful feedback offered here, so I thought I'd share my story and get some of your thoughts. This is going to be a bit long, but I think it's important to include as much detail as possible. Thanks in advance to those brave souls who read this whole thing!

 

Back in November, I started dating a divorced man with two teenaged children (he's 50, I'm 36). We are colleagues, and actually met two years ago (had coffee once back then, but I had just been dumped and though I found this colleague very attractive and interesting, I was NOT interested in dating anyone at that time.--I was still reeling from my breakup and actually still hoped my ex would want me back -- ugh.) Anyway, we had bumped into each other on campus (we're teachers) from time to time over the past two years and always exchanged pleasant conversation. This past fall, circumstances brought us together again -- we both ended up working at a small satellite campus of our college and got re-acquainted. When he asked me out in early November, I was thrilled; I really liked him and was definitely attracted to him. We started dating, and had wonderful times together -- there was mutual attraction, the conversation was great -- we laughed, the chemistry was there, etc. All good, right?

 

There was, though, what I now realize was a big *red flag* that came up in conversation even BEFORE he asked me out: He has never really recovered from his divorce, which was years ago. Before we started dating, he would casually bring up his ex in conversations, never expressing anger toward her or anything, but the fact that he brought her up in nearly every conversation we had definitely should have told me something. They've had some custody issues relating to their children, for example. He is clearly NOT in love with her and does not want her back -- in hindsight, though, I realize that he simply hasn't gotten past the divorce, despite the fact that it was years ago. Well, as hopeful souls such as myself often do, I tried to put this out of my mind. After all, he was SO into me -- and I him -- and things seemed to be going so well -- daily phone calls, a gazillion text messages (I didn't even know how to text before I started dating him -- LOL!) wonderful dates, lots of affection -- the whole thing. But, over the subsequent weeks, while his interest in me never waned, he DID begin to express to me that he was worried that he was not ready for a relationship -- that he had a lot of past "baggage" that he had not yet gotten past, and that he wasn't sure he was ready. He even told me that one of his friends told him "She sounds ready; you're NOT ready." He admitted to having a pattern in past relationships in which he thought he was ready, and tried to have a relationship, but that he ultimately ended up disappearing on women when he realized he wasn't ready -- literally disappearing. He told me he would NOT do that to me. He hadn't dated anyone for over a year before me, during which time he was trying to sort things out. We talked through it, and we mutually decided that we would continue to see each other and take things slowly. He told me he did NOT want to stop seeing me -- that he really liked me, I'm special, all that.

 

Well, over Christmas I went to visit my parents for a few days and he went to visit his. We kept in contact the whole time we were away, and when we got back, we arranged to meet -- FOR LUNCH. I was pretty sure I knew what was coming, so it was no surprise (though it was a great disappointment), when he told me he had spent those days basically alone, thinking about us and what to do, and he came to the conclusion that he still wasn't ready for a relationship -- that his "baggage" is still standing in the way. He said he wanted very badly to be ready for me, but that he simply isn't. This last conversation took several hours; he was clearly very conflicted. There was absolutely no begging or pleading on my part; I held back the tears. I didn't chastise him. I didn't try to change his mind. I didn't blame him for anything. We were both very emotional, though == he kept asking "Where do we go from here?" and pointed out that things couldn't be over between us for good because it was clear that neither of us wanted him to get out of my car and drive away. There was, I'm ashamed to say, some making out, which was difficult, because I knew we were ending things. He kissed me goodbye before he got in his car. Well, we never really *finished* the conversation. He finally did get out and drive away, but we didn't ever decide anything -- were we ever going to speak again? Were we going to try to be..."friends"? Were we closing the door on a potential relationship forever? We never really discussed any of this. We did have a phone conversation the next day, but we didn't cover any new ground. After that phone conversation, we went NC; I decided that I was NOT going to make a fool of myself as I had in past situations -- e-mailing or calling a guy who had broken things off with me. Painful though it was, I didn't contact him -- no calls, no texts. He also didn't contact me (unless he called when my cell phone was off and didn't leave a message, which I doubt he did).

 

After about 10 days NC, we bumped into each other at a mandatory school function. I had been concerned that this would happen, and I tried to avoid it by arriving late and sitting near the back of the auditorium. I just didn't want things to be awkward. Well, apparently he had the same idea -- he arrived later than me, and ended up sitting not far from me. After the function was over, we talked for a few minutes -- it was a little uncomfortable, but I was cheerful and tried to appear as positive as possible. He seemed sad, and while I felt sad, I knew I had to not be mopey and morose --I wasn't (and am still not) angry at him, and I didn't want him to think that I am. I'm actually relieved that he broke things off with me after only 2 months rather than stringing me along indefinitely because he couldn't make up his mind. After that encounter, went back to NC for the next two weeks until school started yesterday. This satellite campus we work at is rather a small building, and there's no way we can avoid each other; I was worried that it would be really awkward: Would he have trouble looking me in the eye? Would we just nod and say "Hello" politely, and nothing more? Would we ignore each other? When I walked in the door, he was coming down the hallway toward me, and when he saw me, he got a HUGE smile on his face. I felt relieved, to say the least. We had several brief conversations between classes yesterday, and I left work feeling OK about everything. I thought, "I can do this. I can see him at work and be OK with everything, even though I still care."

 

Here's the problem: Today was different, though. We had several longer conversations, and it became painfully clear to me that there is still DEFINITELY a connection between us -- there are feelings and attraction on both sides. He was looking at me just like he did when we were dating; we were joking and laughing like we always did; he came into my office to talk to me and stayed for a long time. My concern is this: I still want things to work out between us. I'm not saying I have much hope that they will, because I know the odds of that are not great based on what I've read here. However, the fact that there was no "bad breakup" due to infidelity, abuse, loss of feelings, etc. makes it difficult for me -- it keeps me hoping that things CAN work out, once he gets past his "baggage." I KNOW I have to move on, and that whatever happens, happens. If, someday, he DOES get past his baggage and want to see me again, great, but if that doesn't happen, I have to be OK with that, and I don't plan to pine away waiting around for him while he sorts through his issues. I guess I need to know how I can still work with him and still move forward, because if the chemistry remains what it is between us, I'm not sure I CAN move forward. I'm afraid that, as time goes by and we still talk, laugh, flirt, etc. I'll cling to the idea that, because the connection is still there, things might work out.

 

Any thoughts? I have decided not to be "friends" with him outside of work -- I don't plan to meet him or hang around with him outside of work unless he clearly indicates that he wants to pursue something more than a friendship again. If we decided to be "friends" and he started seeing someone else and told me about it, I'd be really hurt. I also do not plan to call or text him. I will avoid discussing any really personal issues with him, unless absolutely necessary (i.e. if he had a relative who died and wanted to talk to me about it or something.) I guess what I need to know is, is this the right thing to do? I can't do NC because I have no choice but to see him at work (and as a tenured college professor, I can't quit my job just because of a guy issue); I want to date him again, but if that doesn't happen, I also want to be able to be OK with that and be able to get past things. Is it even possible if I have to see him 3 times per week? Should I tell him how I'm feeling about the situation and get his take on it, or should I avoid talking about "us" at all? Should I try to avoid him as much as possible? I don't want to avoid him; I DO want to still talk to him -- he's a wonderful person -- but as long as I wish for anything to happen between us, I'm wondering what the best course of action is and if I should try to talk to him about any of this. Generally, when a relationship or dating situation ends, the conventional wisdom is to let it go and NOT bring it up again, but I'm not sure.

 

Anyway, it's late, and I know I was rambling there toward the end. Any feedback you might have to provide (if you managed to get through the whole post without falling asleep!) would be most helpful.

[b2761]

I think that if he's having that hard a time getting over a divorce, he should be seeing a therapist about it. If he isn't doing that, it suggests to me that he's content to let that divorce prevent him from moving on with his life emotionally. Commitment phobia can come in many different guises. If I were you, I'd want some very definite evidence that he's made some real effort to get over that divorce. It can become a convenient excuse to avoid real intimacy.

 

Recognize that you risk setting yourself up for a situation where he flirts with you- gets the buzz from that- but then can contentedly go home, knowing that since he told you he wanted out of the relationship, he doesn't owe you anything more. Or it can get into 'Oh, I'm so upset - let me sleep over- but we understand it doesn't mean anything, right?" Meanwhile, you are keeping your gaze in his direction and possibly missing out on the opportunity to get involved with someone without those issues.

 

My advice would be to view him as someone that is not going to be truly available - maybe ever. You deserve someone who makes being with you a priority, and if it means going through therapy to exorcise the Ghost of Marriage Past, so be it. If he's not really willing to fight to slay that dragon, then that says something.

[Orlander]

He said he wanted very badly to be ready for me

that's bull****!!! Ugh, don't waste your time with this guy!!

 

You have to truly want to get over an ex and take action to get over them. This guy is just living in the past and can't see what is right in front of him

 

b2761 is right, move on and find someone who isn't so caught up in ghosts of relationships past.

 

Orlander

[browneyedgirl36]

[COLOR="blue"] I agree about the therapy. He actually goes to a family therapist with his children (I think I caught in one of our conversations that sometimes the ex is there too -- yikes!) I'm not sure if it's a condition of their custody agreement (50% joint physical custody). If he's ONLY doing the family therapy, that's not going to help him at all -- how can he work on his issues with the kids and possibly the ex sitting right there? I'm not sure if he goes to individual therapy. I really hope so. Funny, I just made an appointment with a therapist for the first time ever in my 36 years. A friend gave me this therapist's number after I told her of my situation, and when I told her "Thanks, I think I'll call her -- I could really use some help working through this," her response was "No, no! The therapist is for HIM, not for YOU!!!" My response was, "I think I really need this. He can find his OWN therapist!" So, I'm seeing her this week. I decided I need some tools for getting past this and moving on with my life, and I need to change my thinking patterns about a lot of other stuff. I hope it will help.

 

Many thanks for your thoughtful response!

[browneyedgirl36]

that's bull****!!! Ugh, don't waste your time with this guy!!

 

You have to truly want to get over an ex and take action to get over them. This guy is just living in the past and can't see what is right in front of him

 

b2761 is right, move on and find someone who isn't so caught up in ghosts of relationships past.

 

Orlander

 

Thanks, Orlander. You are absolutely right. If he wanted it badly enough, he'd do what he needed to do to make it work. He has NO idea how much fear and doubt I had to put aside to even accept a date with him (I won't post my whole "backstory" here, but I have a really hard time trusting someone enough to embark on a relationship, and I hadn't dated anyone for two years before he asked me out). I spent my two "dateless" years working through a LOT of issues -- self-image stuff, fears I had, some of my own "old baggage" so that I would be ready to be a good partner to someone. I feel I AM good partner material now, and it frustrates me that he "can't" (more like WON'T) do the same thing -- not necessarily for ME, but for HIMSELF at least. Does he really want to be alone -- or worse, in a string of "relationships" that last 2-3 months and never go anywhere -- because he has his "baggage" in such a deathgrip and is afraid to let go? UGH. I actually feel bad for him -- not just because he's missing out on the chance to be wtih me, but because he's just...missing out. I wonder if he'll ever be able to let go. In any case, I just need to figure out how to "move on" with grace, dignity, and self-respect, in spite of having to see him at work. This is going to be a real challenge. Any suggestions are welcomed!

[BeStrongBeHappy]

i have a little tiny warning bell going off in the back of my head for these reasons...

 

most of the divorced men/women i know who had really bad divorces do NOT agree to continued family counseling together, as a total family, years after a divorce. the ones that do this are usually still seeing each other, in some form or another, and seeing the counselor to keep things on an even keel... so him saying they are both 'not over the divorce' might have a different meaning than you are interpreting it...

 

i have also known of many cases where men claim to be divorced and NOT seeing/sleeping with their ex wife, yet they continue to have a 'live out' relationship with her, still having sex with her, in essense, visiting the family home and 'dating' her while not fully reconciling...

 

maybe they discovered they can't really live together, but are content to have these half in, half out relationships during and after the divorce... sometimes women will accept this if the man has shown a total inability to remain faithful over the long term, and they still want the man in their life, but can't live with him because they can't stand to watch him come home late all the time, or fight about it etc.

 

and lots of times, one ex may not know how much the other is actually dating on the side... or that he dates on the side whenever he goes through a rocky period with the wife, and the wife cuts him off, then when the wife starts seeing him again, he cuts off the girlfriend (or continues to date both til the wife gets wind of it and cuts him off again)... ping ponging back and forth.

 

i know one couple who has done this for 20 years, even including marriages to other people, but they never stopped seeing and sleeping with each other, just went a bit more 'underground' when the other person was married to someone else... they both figured out long ago they couldn't live together, but they are still enmeshed, and do sleep together and have a emotional relationship. i remember when i first met this man, i thought it odd how frequently he talked about his ex wife, or doing things with her, rather than just his son by her, but later discovered that he was indeed sleeping with her, and both she and he were keeping it from their respective spouses, and even their own son!! she has managed to stay married to one man since divorcing him, he on the other hand has had two subsequent wives, and a string of girlfriends, both between and *during* marriages, but never really gave up the first wife or an emotional and physical relationship with her, whenever the opportunity presents itself...

 

you say he became cold after the holidays... are you SURE that he spent them alone, and not with his ex wife and family? it could explain why he was cold again after the holidays... he may not have been off alone thinking, rather hooking up with his wife again...

 

lots of men in this situation will tell their dates they are working out 'issues' with the children, or custody, or visiting the children, when the reality is the ex wife is still a BIG part of this picture...

 

so the bottom line may be that he does not want you as a partner or committed girlfriend, because he already has a woman filling that role, his ex wife... lots of couples who do this don't even admit they are doing it, because it is embarrassing how often they get together and break up again, so they just stop telling other people about it and just do their own thing...

 

in answer to your question about him, where you say you are worried.. 'or worse, in a string of "relationships" that last 2-3 months and never go anywhere', yes, it sounds like he's already been doing this for years, and if he really didn't like it, he'd stop... i think if he has his ex wife in a 'primary' role in his life, he can have a string of other women for spice and never stop... especially in an academic environment, he meets lots of women, and i'm sure many might be younger former students with a crush on the teacher... and he has already admitted to you that he has no qualms about just 'disappearing' on them, actually a very cruel way to break up with someone.

 

you are also giving him credit for not 'disappearing' on you, but he really couldn't, considering you are colleagues and work together... he had to be more civil to you and ease you out, so that you wouldn't make scenes or tell everyone he was a cad... other women, he could just dump and not look back...

 

so it sounds like you are making lots of assumptions about his behavior starting from the idea that he is a wonderful guy and a 'wounded dove' injured by a divorce and hence needs to be healed and get therapy so he can 'love again' etc. etc. but the reality may be that he is not wounded at all, just having his cake and eating it too, and shifting from woman to woman whenever it gets to the point she might want to see him enough that his little deal with his wife might get exposed (or his ex find out about his latest girlfriend on the side)...

 

not sure if any of this applies, but it just occurred to me when reading your story so i thought i'd share it with you....

[browneyedgirl36]

Thanks very much for your input!