b2761

queen, it sounds like he only calls when it's convenient for him- a red flag, certainly.

you know what you have to do, dt. Keep walking. It's hard, but you know that it's what has to happen.

interesting to read all this- what's happened since?

interesting to hear this perspective!

how about everyone is special in some way. I do believe somewhat that "God helps those that help themselves..." On the other hand, over the years, I've increasingly had a problem with the concept that people get what they deserve. Could anyone possibly feel that children 'deserve' to be harmed? What if they're killed, like children in the Holocaust- they don't have any opportunity for life to 'make it up to them' for the bad they went through.

good thoughts to remember, katman

just sounds like your generic commitmentphobe, enjoying the buzz with you but not wanting it to go further. and since you DO seem to want it to go further, I think you've got to agree to disagree and disengage til you either meet someone else or down the road no longer have any romantic yearnings. It's the old joke "Doctor- it hurts when I do this..." "Well- stop doing that!" And trust me, I know it ain't easy when you realize those kinds of things.

There is that 'why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free' sound to this. Sure, he's paying for things, giving you attention, but he is free to do what he wants and he does get something out of it- which is the admiration vibe from you and your son. If you want more, than I think you probably need to tell him things have to change. I've likened it in the past to interviewing for a job, and everyone there is great, and they like you, but they say "Sorry- we're not hiring now. But you're welcome to hang out whenever you want- we think you're cool." So, you might do that for the day, you might come back a couple more times, but after awhile, you start to remember that you need money to pay your bills cause they're going to be overdue, and since this place hasn't hired you, they're not paying you anything. At some point, you have to pick yourself up and say "Well- this is a great place- but I also need to make some money somewhere." The most important quality two people should share is they want the same arrangement. Even if you have everything in common and it 'feels' real compatible, if you don't want the same thing, you're cheating yourself and eventually you feel it and often start to resent the person, cause basically, they have evaluated you and decided "Nah". Who knows- maybe if you start seeing some other guys, he might snap out of it and see he has more serious feelings than he thinks he does- but he sounds scared of commitment, and you have to realize that even if you do meet someone else and hangout guy asks you to break it off cause he's seen the light, you still would be taking a risk that once he had you, he'd start to feel things were 'too serious' again. Trust is crucial- and a critical part is trusting that the other person isn't going to flake out on you. (and regarding him saying 'be picky of men'- he might feel safe to say that if he feels he treats you so 'well' that you actually wouldn't make the effort to be with someone else! I wonder how much he'd enjoy being front row center watching you marry someone else!)

there's a Van Morrison song "Enlightenment" when he simply repeats a few times "non-attachment, non-attachment, non-attachment"- it's that somewhat zen idea that if you release your strong desire for a specific outcome, your relaxation may make the outcome you want more likely to happen. So- enjoy your friend- don't get too wigged out, and just let the chips fall as they may.

I sort of was juggling 'on the one hand' with 'on the other hand' cause of two well-reasoned posts- but what I actually ended up doing (1st get together this evening since my post) was just try to be normal and friendly. And she was the same. And later she gave me a ride home from the get together and asked if I wanted to see a movie in the next couple of days. Which gave me relief from wondering if she was now going to keep me at arm's length. I had been thinking at the time I posted 'we're not even being especially close friends, let alone anything else." So, I think I got a glimpse of what it would be like if the friendship disappeared and I didn't particularly like it. Sure- I would've gotten over it. But as of now, I'm just enjoying the friendship and going to keep up with that (albeit a tad more casually than previously- not to play games, but because I think maybe I was being too possessive, etc. and I need to make that friendship less of a priority in my life). The whole process DID make me form a more realistic, less-idealized picture of her- and that was overdue. I recognize that for romance, I'm going to have to look elsewhere, but I'm glad a friendship I value is going to continue. And I do appreciate the thoughtful advice you all gave, which I did mull over.

thanks for your responses. I need to digest them before responding fully, but you both make some great points.

I think that if he's having that hard a time getting over a divorce, he should be seeing a therapist about it. If he isn't doing that, it suggests to me that he's content to let that divorce prevent him from moving on with his life emotionally. Commitment phobia can come in many different guises. If I were you, I'd want some very definite evidence that he's made some real effort to get over that divorce. It can become a convenient excuse to avoid real intimacy. Recognize that you risk setting yourself up for a situation where he flirts with you- gets the buzz from that- but then can contentedly go home, knowing that since he told you he wanted out of the relationship, he doesn't owe you anything more. Or it can get into 'Oh, I'm so upset - let me sleep over- but we understand it doesn't mean anything, right?" Meanwhile, you are keeping your gaze in his direction and possibly missing out on the opportunity to get involved with someone without those issues. My advice would be to view him as someone that is not going to be truly available - maybe ever. You deserve someone who makes being with you a priority, and if it means going through therapy to exorcise the Ghost of Marriage Past, so be it. If he's not really willing to fight to slay that dragon, then that says something.

became interested in a friend romantically, but that interest was one- sided I think. But we stayed friends though I carried a bit of a torch- But now I feel like lately I haven't been treated very well as a friend (it's the kind of thing where she'll chat when we're somewhere we both have to be, but if I suggest seeing a film together, she declines). So now I am inclined to step far back for awhile myself. But we're involved in a group where we see each other three times a week, so I can't go totally NC. If I'm a little more distant to her than I was, I suspect she'll pick up on that and may ask why (I actually started this already and she seemed to notice the change but didn't say anything. I didn't blow her off- we chatted a bit when she approached me. But I didn't seek out the conversation and was a little cooler.) What to say to protect dignity and not have a scene? I don't want to say the truth "Well, I finally figured out for certain that we were never going to be more than platonic friends, and lately you haven't been a great one of those either, so I need to keep my distance from you til I get used to the idea." So what's a casual substitute? "I got the feeling you were stepping back on our friendship, so I figured I should do the same?" Too blunt? "I've been busy lately." ?

people sometimes are inconsistent. But I'd spare yourself going crazy and just write it off as a random moment. If it 'means' anything, you'll find out further down the road- but for now, just keep moving forward as though it doesn't mean anything, that she's involved with someone else now, and move on with your life as though their relationship is going to work out and you need to look elsewhere for romance.

Well, the usual question- are you willing to risk rejection and possibly losing the friendship by putting your cards on the table? You could put it out there and say something like "There have been times now and then when I've thought we'd make a good couple- what do you think about that?" If he isn't interested, well, at least you'd know that and you could grieve that but move on from it. There is the possibility that the friendship would fall apart, which would probably cause you pain, but I'm sure watching from the sidelines while he walked away with his girlfriends has been painful too. If he is interested, it could be the start of something great between you. Unfortunately- you'll probably never know until you take a chance.