Small Claims Court

[HellFrost666]

Has anyone ever taken anyone to Small Claims Court? Or has anyone ever been taken there? I am thinking I may have to sue somone and I have no idea what to expect in doing so.

 

My girlfriend took wedding photos for an aquaintance of ours, and I video taped. We were paid a decent amount to do this. We deposited the check, but got a notice today that it was never deposited because they stopped payment on it before they ever even saw the photos or the video.

 

We are not professionals. My girlfriend is a good photographer, but she hasn't had any real training in it, just a lot of trial and error experience. And I have ran a video camera maybe three times in my life. Just so everyone is clear on that.

[annie24]

do a google search on "Small claims court" in your county, and you should get a webpage with all the information you need to file a claim. ie, where to go, filing fee, etc.

 

you need to show proof that there was an agreement made for the video and photography. this will greatly help your case. and them stopping payment on the check.

 

have you called them and asked what happened?

[HellFrost666]

Well, when we got the notice the bank sent the actual check with it, so we have it. That right there is a good ammount of proof. I would think so anyway. If they didn't agree to pay us, they would have never written the check and handed it to my girlfriend. She (the blushing bride, lol) copped an attitude when handing over the check, but she still handed it over.

 

We haven't called them because we weren't sure if it was a good idea. If we call they might try to say we are harassing them or something.

 

And I am in the United States, if that matters.

[annie24]

still, rules for small claims will be different from county to county.

 

did you guys ever have a written contract? a verbal contract?

 

I think it would be worth a call to say, "Hi - we deposited the check for the services, but it came back as a stopped payment? What happened? Are you going to pay us soon?"

 

I think you should show the court that you did something to try to get the money back.

[Ellie2006]

Hey HF,

Did they, by any chance, write out what the check was in payment for?

Even if they didn't, I think the check alone would be perceived as there being a contract in place (haha, I may be wrong of course. My legal info is solely derived from hours of watching People's Court and Judge Judy )

 

By the bye, maybe you could just email them and asking them what happened? (And don't forget to 'cc it to yourself and keep a record of it, if you do decide to go to court)

I don't think one email would be construed as harassment.

Maybe I am being naive, but perhaps there was a misunderstanding w/ the cancelling of the check?

I don't think it wil be reflected as something negative on your part to settle this matter out of court first ...

 

Plus, even if they were, for some reason, displeased w/ the photos and whatnot, if they were informed ahead of time that you guys were not "professionals," per se, I do think they are obligated to pay you for services rendered.

 

Good luck!

[rose2summer]

Well, maybe I watch too much Judge Judy.

 

But from the show, they always recomment trying to handle it between you two before going to court.

 

You should send a written statement to them requesting payment (keep a copy) and explaining what happened.

[annie24]

yeah, I would try a phone call first, maybe an e-mail, finally a letter with registered mail, so you have confirmation they received it.

 

definitely, you need more than a canceled check. you definitely need to show that there was a contract in place. ie, where, when did you discuss this? did you get it in writing?

 

don't give them the photos until you get your money!

[doyathink]

Send a certified copy of the bill to her requesting payment by such and such date. Failure to pay will result in legal actions being taken. You already thought of this tho, and it is a great idea. If, by that date you haven't received your money then follow the guidelines to small claims for your state and county.

[HellFrost666]

Oh no, they aren't getting anything until we get our money. My girlfriend gave them a CD with proofs on it, but they are very low resolution and have watermarks on them. So not much can be done with them.

 

Then The Bride called complaining because she couldn't see them well enough on her computer screen, so my girlfriend went and had hard copies printed, (still very low res, and with watermarks on them). But she (bride) never came and picked them up after two times trying to contact her.

 

No, there was no written contract, but there was a verbal contract made when we all were present.

 

They were well aware we are not professionals. And they canceled the check before even seeing our work.

[Batya33]

Based on common sense, you are going to have great difficulty without a written contract - and particularly if the work was not professionally done, they can say that you did not deliver quality work which was a condition of any arrangement you had.

 

Also if you threaten a lawsuit they might sue you back for the poor quality photographs, etc.

[HellFrost666]

Based on common sense, you are going to have great difficulty without a written contract - and particularly if the work was not professionally done, they can say that you did not deliver quality work which was a condition of any arrangement you had.

 

Also if you threaten a lawsuit they might sue you back for the poor quality photographs, etc.

 

How close minded of you to assume that we gave her "poor quality" work? We know this woman, she knew we weren't professionals, yet she asked us to do it, she offered to pay us, she handed the check over, and for the third time, she stopped payment before seeing the work. Are we clear on that now? Jeez.

 

And my girlfriend took excellent pictures. She has been doing this for years. It just isn't her job, so thereforeeee she is not considered a pro. If they decide to countersue for bad work, all the judge has to do is look at the pictures to see they are good pictures. And we didn't get paid half what a professional would have been paid. So its not like we demanded professional money for bad work, it was more the other way around.

 

Sorry for being defensive but how many times do I have to repeat myself?

[Dako]

HF, I suspect Batya meant only that they can claim the work was substandard, not that it was.

 

I do freelance graphics and in many years of small jobs with no contract at all, I had a client delay payment until he got my summons to small claims court. Long ago it only cost $25 to file and to avoid a day waiting in line at the court, they gave me the measly few hundred bucks. True, I may have lost in court without a written contract, but it worked.

 

Since lawyers aren't usually allowed in small-claims, I suspect the judge has more leeway in decisions.

Showing your work may be convincing.

 

It's worth a shot.

[Batya33]

If your attitude towards me in that post is reflected in the letter you write or in front of a judge you will lose.

 

All the best to you. You asked for my opinion, I gave it and I stand by it. We can agree to disagree.

[Batya33]

HF, I suspect Batya meant only that they can claim the work was substandard, not that it was.

 

I do freelance graphics and in many years of small jobs with no contract at all, I had a client delay payment until he got my summons to small claims court. Long ago it only cost $25 to file and to avoid a day waiting in line at the court, they gave me the measly few hundred bucks. True, I may have lost in court without a written contract, but it worked.

 

Since lawyers aren't usually allowed in small-claims, I suspect the judge has more leeway in decisions.

Showing your work may be convincing.

 

It's worth a shot.

 

I have been to small claims - not in california. Lawyers are not required but most certainly are allowed.

[Dako]

link removed

[HellFrost666]

Just an update on this whole thing...

 

This morning my girlfriend called three professional photographers in our city to ask them a few questions. (Somehow in the conversations she had she was asked out for coffee and offered an assistant job by one of them, she amazes me at times...) But all the pros charge at leat three times the ammoutn to do a wedding that we were supposed to be paid (One charges about 5 times the amount). Also, all of them take between two weeks and a month to get proofs to thei customers. SInce she copped such an attitude about the price being too high when she handed us the check, and since two days after the wedding she was on the phone yelling and screaming since we didn't have her proofs ready we wanted to get these two questions answered by the pros.

 

So, then she called the bank to see what kind of fees she was being charged for the processing of the check. Of course its a rediculous amount.

 

So then its time to call this couple, more particularly the bride since she is the one we have dealt with from the beginning. The reason she stopped payment on the check just blew my mind. She told me (I called her) that she didn't appreciate the nasty remarks that were made on the wedding video by my girflriend, and her whole family was so offended, and that is why we aren't getting paid.

 

So, what is a nasty remark in this woman's opinion? When they were feeding each other cake my girlfriend was obviously right there taking pictures, and she jokingkly said "Shove it in his face." and laughed while the Bride was feeding the Groom cake. The video camera picked her saying this up. Oh well! It was meant in good humor and I think most people are familiar with that particular tradition at weddings. We have all seen wedding pictures of the newly married couple smashing cake in eachother's faces. But she said they (and their entire family) were extremely offended by that remark and that is why the payment was stopped the day after the wedding. You have got to be kidding me!?

 

So after 15 minutes of being (pretty much) verbally abused on the phone, I finally told her that I am not stadning there arguing all day, we need to come to a reolution here. She still wanted to be nasty, so I told her to call me back when she is ready to deal with this like an adult, I told her to have a good day, and hung up.

[Batya33]

Honestly, it's just me but I would not want my videographer or photographer making any remarks much less the typical negative cliche remarks. Having said that I think it is just an excuse not to pay you.

[doyathink]

One thing frost didn't mention is that they were somewhat friends. His gf and this lady and have known each other for many, many years.

 

They are not just random strangers!

[annie24]

Honestly, it's just me but I would not want my videographer or photographer making any remarks much less the typical negative cliche remarks. Having said that I think it is just an excuse not to pay you.

 

yeah, I'd imagine that a professional videographer would not be heard making comments on tape, etc....

 

but the fact that they are hobbists instead of professionals I guess goes in their favor. After all, if they were friends of the bride and groom, it only makes sense that they would make comments here and there.

 

And I bet that in the verbal contract they made, there wasn't a clause like, "well, if you guys get heard on video saying stuff, then we won't pay you."

[Batya33]

link removed

 

Yes - not the rules where i live.

[Batya33]

yeah, I'd imagine that a professional videographer would not be heard making comments on tape, etc....

 

but the fact that they are hobbists instead of professionals I guess goes in their favor. After all, if they were friends of the bride and groom, it only makes sense that they would make comments here and there.

 

And I bet that in the verbal contract they made, there wasn't a clause like, "well, if you guys get heard on video saying stuff, then we won't pay you."

 

Oh - and I am sure in professional contracts there is no such language either - but there are generally accepted standards and they could argue that the work was sub-standard based on those comments.

[annie24]

Hm... don't you think the fact that they hired amateurs as opposed to professionals indicates that they accepted that the quality of work would not be as high, but were willing to deal with that for a cheaper price? Couldn't that point be argued?

[doyathink]

We are comparing apples to oranges here. Professionals verses friends of the bride and groom whom happen to have a hobby doing this. Written contracts verses verbal contracts. If frost was a professional I highly doubt he would have made just a verbal contract.....but he isn't....nor has he claimed to be one!

 

The OP's original question has been overlooked. Frost, no I have never been to small claims nor have I ever taken anyone. I think you have a shot. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

[annie24]

Oh yeah, it sounds to me like he has a real shot also.

 

I looked into small claims court about something else, but I didn't have to go because I became very persistent with phone calls and e-mails, and they finally sent it to me, I guess just to shut me up! I started calling and e-mailing once a day for like, 2 weeks.

[doyathink]

Hm... don't you think the fact that they hired amateurs as opposed to professionals indicates that they accepted that the quality of work would not be as high, but were willing to deal with that for a cheaper price? Couldn't that point be argued?

 

Exactly Annie! This IS the point. And, Frost isn't the only one out of the group that this bride didn't like the work that was done. I'm not going to go into details as he may not want them posted, but she is doing this same thing to another person she hired as well!