It's hopeless....

[heloladies21]

Ok.. will do..

I will be reading and asking soon enough.

If.. excuse me.. when I do go out, how do I explain the earplugs in my head to a prospective date? (Question: "Whats with the earplugs?") (Answer: "I like going to clubs but I also would like to have the ability to hear in 15 years?" )

 

I would like to be prepared for the question should it come up. Maybe the prospective answer I posted isn't good, but it is truthful. The only reason I ask it, is because one of the last times I had gone to a club, I could see the windows quivering from the concussive force from the dance floor speakers. That made me turn around and go home.

This information is good to use anywhere. If you wanna use it in the supermarket instead and never step foot inside of a club, go right ahead. There's no disclaimer that says "This information is only to be used in clubs."

 

If you don't want to go to clubs to get girls, don't go. Plenty of other places you can go (the mall, a bookstore, a supermarket, anywhere you go and see women).

[Kevin T]

Precisely.

 

I don't go a clubbin', nor do I go to bars (since I don't drink, otherwise I definitely WOULD go.) I tend to practice where I go in my everyday life... usually school and work. Sometimes church or stores/malls.

[doubleg137]

Im going to be reading through these emails today.. I have only some hope that it could possibly work if applied correctly.

[Don_Eduardo]

I'm in total agreement with Doubleg on this topic of meeting women. I'm in a similar boat as him, I've never had a girlfriend (or a kiss, even) and am almost 30. Like I've really reached the point in my life that I'm thinking, 'maybe there's something I'm not doing right' when it comes to capturing the female essense as part and parcel of having a loving and intimate relationship with a woman (or having a girlfriend, if you will).

 

Like I've got several girl mates and I guarantee you they'd think 'Where'd my friend Bruce [my real name] go?', if I suddenly applied some kind of player/attracting women for sex/mystery method strategy to them!! These girl mates of mine would easily be the best friends I've had; in all likelihood my friendships with them would not now be nearly of the same quality if i had initially approached them with the intention to bed them. What I did do was approach them as people, and that's how I relate to them (albeit people with slightly different bodily contours). The point is, I've attracted these girls as friends in 'a nice guy' manner; to them, I'm simply not the 'player' type.

 

Thus, the implication of all this is that one indeed has to change one's personality somewhat to attract women, at least if one desires to go beyond the 'friends' stage anyway. If this is so, then, the problem becomes more of a conformity one. Does one wish to degrade themselves to conform to the lowest common denominator of maleness, the 'player' stereotype? Well, if that guy wants sex (and not just 'quality female friends'), then yes!!

 

However, I believe it is a balance. The 'nice guy' archetype is not without its flaws but neither is the 'player' personality. Towards the extremes, the 'nice guy' requires some of the initiative, the bravado, the machismo, and definetely the confidence of the 'player'. However, I believe the 'player' needs to learn from the 'nice guy' better-honed definitions of respect, consideration, and gentlemanly conduct as these apply to treating women; at the very lest, he needs to quell his arrogance.

[Dating Coach]

From OAP Issue 1

 

Quote:

 

"The Mystery Method is a way of meeting, attracting, and seducing beautiful women from inside their peer groups."

 

This is not my aim to go around seducing. Are the rest of the OAP issues that I have received all geared toward this? Should I spend an inordinate amount of time reading through all this? Is this all what the Mystery Method is about? Just attraction and seduction? Thats not what Im looking for.

 

Okay guys, listen up. The word "seduce" is the wrong choice of word here. As for why it was chosen, possibly for a marketing perspective, but that has nothing to do with the point. If you focus on crud like that and immediately shut down then you are cheating yourself. You would be superificially looking at only that "word" and not seeing what it really is all about.

I'm not just talking about the "Mystery Method", because honestly, I've never read it. I do know that Heloladies and I have very similar opinions and have rarely disagreed. If he accepts what the real message of it is then I will assume that I have a pretty good idea that this "method" is not going to compromise your integrity.

 

Any time that you guys read anything that is pro-active in the pursuit of meeting women and then write it off as being "player-like" then you're not viewing it with an open mind. What is "player-like"? What is a "player"? Here is what I think a "player" is:

A "player" is a guy (or girl) who uses women (or guys) to satisfy their needs. In this example we'll look at it from the male player perspective in a sexual need environment. The "player" will do what he can in order to use women for sex or company.

So if defining the "player" comes down to what he does with these women and what his goals towards them are, then would you really be a "player" if your goal is to achieve a successful, honest, and happy relationship? If that is your goal then how are YOU a player by actively pursuing a relationship with someone?

 

No one on here has been asking you to mislead a woman or trick her into liking you. So if you are not misleading or lying and your goal is honest-that you would like to find a special someone to share a romantic and loyal relationship with-then how can you be a player or a predator?

 

What we have been advising you to do is not to lie, not to prey, and not to use... instead we've been advising you to work on your approach, become more self confident, to give yourself a stronger self value, etc. How does this compromise you? The answer is that it doesn't.

 

Don't you want to be the best you? Do you compromise who you are as a person if you grow more confident in yourself? Not at all. You are still you, you just believe in yourself more. This makes you more attractive as a human being. It also makes you happier and healthier.

 

If you learn to stand up for yourself more, especially to women, does this change you? No! It makes you more you! Sucking up to women and catering to them all of the time is not being you, it's you trying to be someone else in order to be liked... because you aren't comfortable enough or confident enough in being yourself. Think about it.

If you aren't in the mood at the moment to drop whatever it is you are doing or whatever plans you have in order to rush and give Becky a ride to work, then you should be true to your feelings and don't do it. Choosing not to do extra favors all of the time does not make you a jerk, and doing the extra favors when you don't want to is the only thing that is dishonest. You are being dishonest to yourself and you are doing it in order to be liked. THAT my friend sounds more like a player than someone who is willing to stand up for himself.

So being more fair to yourself doesn't compromise who you are. Instead it's being fair and honest to who you are.

 

If you work on improving your confidence then you are making yourself stronger. That is a good thing. If you start standing up for yourself more and quit catering to people in order to be liked, then you give yourself more self value and you are being true and honest to yourself. These things make you more attractive to the opposite sex. Give yourself more importance. These things in no way make you a player or make you use women in order to get what you want. It's simply being honest and true to yourself because you know that as an equal human being you deserve it. Nowhere anywhere does this mean you have to do something wrong. Got it?

 

As far as learning what women respond favorably to in order to make the best impression you can... does this make you a "player"? Does this make you use women? Does this make you a predator? Does this give you vile intentions? How in the world does increasing your knowledge of how to best present yourself give you dark motives?!!! It can't!!!

 

So if you are learning that women respond more favorably to guys who approach them confidently, initiate a conversation, and the let them know that you are interested in them as a possible romantic partner by asking them out on a date or for their number... how does that knowledge of how to best present yourself make you a player who uses women? There is absolutely NO CONNECTION between a player and a guy who knows how to best present himself. That's like saying a woman is being predatory because she wears make-up and dresses nice! You're simply trying to make the best impression of yourself that you can! You are being you but the best you that you can be!

 

Learning what you can about what women respond to favorably and what they do not respond favorably to does not mean that you change who you are. Yeesh, that sounds like saying you cannot study for your math test because learning math would compromise yourself. That's just a defeatist attitude and it is an excuse to hide insecurities and self doubt. Well it's about time you get rid of self doubt, insecurity, and excuses.

 

Let's look at a scenario:

 

Jon is a very shy guy, and he has never had a girlfriend. Jon thought that women just want to be cuddled, catered to, worshipped, flattered, etc by her romantic lover. Jon had many female friends over the years, most of which he had a crush on at one time or another, yet none of these women viewed him with a shred of romantic interest-despite the fact that he tried to cater to them, tried to flatter them, worshipped them (not literally) by doing everything he could for them, etc.

 

-What does this tell you? First off, it tells us that Jon is conforming his attitude towards what he thinks will succeed with women. Does Jon really believe that women are perfect little angels? Does he really think that women were goddesses and that he was meant to serve their every whim? No, not if he has an ounce of intelligence. He deserves every bit of respect and love that they do. So is Jon really being true to himself by catering to women like this? Is he being honest when he approaches them from a "friend" angle when he really would like to have her as his girlfriend? No. Jon is acting a certain way because he views this as what women want, and he does this so he can have them as his girlfriend. In doing so he is being dishonest to himself, and to them. THIS is wrong.

 

After years of failing to find a woman who would be willing to see him romantically, and after years of thinking that women just want "jerks", Jon finally realizes that he is the only common denominator when it comes to not being able to relate to women on a romantic level. Jon decides it's time for him to learn about what he could be doing wrong.

 

-Increasing his knowledge about what women respond favorably to doesn't change who Jon is. Jon simply wants to understand why women do the things they do. It will be Jon's actions after gaining an understanding that will determine what kind of person he is.

 

Jon begins reading advice from dating experts and talking to men he knew personally who were very adept at attracting the opposite sex. Jon had no intention of doing everything he heard, his goal was simply to learn and gain a clearer understanding of how attraction and dating worked. He knew now that his prior ideas of catering to women and sucking up to them was not how women chose their partners. Obviously there was something he was missing or failing to show them if they never viewed him as attractive.

 

-It wasn't until much later that Jon realized that the reason he wasn't showing his attractiveness to women was because he tried his hardest to prove to them that he was exceptionally giving, caring, etc, even when it contradicted what he wanted. In putting women's priorities over his own all of the time he sent them a subconscious message that he didn't value himself nor respect himself enough. How was she supposed to value him when he constantly was sending her subconscious messages that he didn't value himself?

Does Jon value himself? Deep down he does. Jesus, how many people really don't value their own opinions? Jon did, he wanted to be liked, he actually believed that he deserved to be liked. Guys like Jon do deserve to be liked for who they are, yet the reason Jon wasn't was because he never showed much of who he was.

Being a nice and good person doesn't mean you have to put others in front of you all of the time, yet that's what Jon did. Even though he felt he was a good person and deserved to be liked romantically no one was going to like him that way because his actions told everyone that he didn't feel like he deserved it. He wasn't being true to himself. He was being overly nice in attempt to show women that he was a nice guy. He allowed himself to be used, he allowed himself to be walked on, he sent out the message that he didn't value himself because his actions showed that he always valued others over himself. There is no self value in this.

 

After learning that women respond favorably towards guys who are true to themselves Jon started being more true to himself. Even though Jon was nervous and scared of asking women out and letting them know that he was interested in them, he started doing it. He started meeting women, having conversations, and asking them out or for their phone number within the first meeting or a few short meetings.

 

-Does this make Jon not true to himself? Does this make Jon a predator? Does this make Jon a guy who planned on using women or treating them badly? No! What about Jons actions show that he is trying to be bad to women? NOTHING! He's finally... FINALLY being true to his desires and acting on them. After all, he talked to that girl, she seemed very sweet and very cute, and he was interested in taking her out on a date to see if perhaps they connected. Instead of being dishonest and trying to sneak in under the disguise of being "just friends" when he really wanted more, he finally said what he wanted to her. He said, "Hey, you seem like a really cool person! How about you meet me for coffee Thursday at the Starbucks accross the street?" He was finally true to what he wanted, he finally showed confidence that he could make the move he deep down wanted to make, and he in no way was a jerk or a predator. He put it on the table and let her decide. If she turned him down, he then shrugs his shoulders and tells her it was nice to talk to her anyway and he moves on with his life, like a confident self respecting guy would.

 

That's the scenario. Jon is not a jerk, Jon is not changing who he is as a person. Jon simply found the confidence deep down within himself to finally take initiative to reach for his goal. He always knew he deserved it, only now he is finally acting like he does. Jon still plans on being a loyal loving partner, he plans on respecting his future girlfriend/wife, but now he also plans on being true to himself, because he deserves it just as much as she does.

 

Guys, you can do this too. It's going to take a lot of time to find the confidence and self respect within yourself that Jon did, but you can do it. Do not sell yourselves short because if you do, then why in the world would any self respecting woman want to bother with you? She'd simply be walking into a situation where she'd lose respect and with respect she'd lose the attraction. It's inevitable. Grow as a person. Be the best that you can be. If you do, you will find success.

 

 

I find it kind of morbid for someone to have developed a "system" for picking up women. Despite how anyone describes it, or how effective it is, it makes you act like a different person.

 

 

I think in my story I have shown that you do not have to act like a different person. In fact, I think that the "people pleasers" are already acting like a different person because they are acting in a way that they think will get people to like them, and giving yourself the respect you deserve is what finally gets you to act like you.

 

Like I've got several girl mates and I guarantee you they'd think 'Where'd my friend Bruce [my real name] go?', if I suddenly applied some kind of player/attracting women for sex/mystery method strategy to them!!

 

Again, if you read the story you will see that your whole perception on what you think it takes to be successful with women is completely wrong. You're viewing increasing your knowledge of the dating scene and learning what women respond to (confidence, self respect, self value, etc) as somehow betraying yourself. I think that is a defeatist attitude and it is 100% false.

 

Sure there are some bad advice out there, but you should never limit your potential to learn good pieces of information because of a self defeatist attitude and a bias towards ignorance.

Some of the best advice I ever picked up was from a friend who was a player. You know what? I never implimented the things he did that were used to take advantage of people but what I did take from him is his ability to talk to women, to hit on them, to flirt, to tease, etc. What made him a player is that he did those things in order to get them into bed and to never call them again. I flirted, teased, had fun, etc with girls in order to get to know them and to ask them out on a date. If the date went well then I'd set up another. If things proceeded wonderfully then eventually she'd be my girlfriend. Did I do anything "playerlike"? Why? Because I actually had the balls to talk to a girl and flirt with her? Um, that's not player-like, that's called good social skills. I do the same thing with guys I meet (not flirt). I talk, am friendly, and if they are cool I might invite them out to the next Football Game at the house. Same thing. Good social skills. Being friendly.

 

Don't write this stuff off guys. LEARN. IMPROVE. PURSUE YOU GOALS.

[heloladies21]

Very tight advice right there. Agree with everything that was said.

[Dating Coach]

If.. excuse me.. when I do go out, how do I explain the earplugs in my head to a prospective date? (Question: "Whats with the earplugs?") (Answer: "I like going to clubs but I also would like to have the ability to hear in 15 years?" )

 

If you have to wear ear plugs when you go to a club then I would try to meet women at another place. Don't take this the wrong way, I don't mean it negatively, but wearing ear plugs to a club reminds me of the movie "40 year old virgin". Most women, especially young women, are going to view that as pretty dorky. I am sure there are quiet bars or even dance clubs that have a reasonable level of music playing. Plus, you can meet women anywhere, not just clubs and bars.

 

IMO I think you'd best be served by picking up some kind of hobby that invovles a lot of women. Such as yoga or co-ed volleyball. Even the gym, which is beneficial in more ways then one.

[Salucious]

Your advice made sense but I found it to be too general. I mean, I don't cater to women or jump through hoops for them. It is just that you made it sound like guys who don't attract women tend to be doormats; most guys simply don't put enough effort into it. I already know you don't have to act "predatory" to attract women. One of my issues I struggle with is highlighting my confidence. It is hard to define "shy." If someone talks to me I'll talk back without being shy or holding back. I'll see an attractive woman/women and I won't get nervous, but I'll just want to try and talk to them without making it too obvious that I'm "hitting" on them (to the point they think I'm a creep). It is like you need to find that balance of flirting enough to let them know you dont just want to be friends, but not acting like a creep.

Another issue I have is being around other guys. I've already said that being my size, no matter what anyone says, makes it difficult to be seen as an "alpha male" I find it much easier talk to girls when there is no other guy in the picture (no competition). This is where I get the most frustrated; I can get social if I want to, but I never try to be the life of the party, it isn't who I am. It is my personality to be friendly but not have to try to steal the attention out of the room and be the center of it.

 

I think it is not enough to say that women are attracted to confidence. It is true, but they are more attracted to confident men that are popular as well as confident. I'm confident in that I know people can like me at first meeting me, including girls. But it is in my personality that I don't strive to be popular or get everybody to like me. Maybe if I had a different experience growing up I'd have more of a need to make tons of friends and be very social but the way I did grow up made me not care (probably because I never was popular).

 

women respond mostly to confidence and social status in a guy. I don't have a lot of friends and don't make an effort to be popular it is just who I am, I don't care about that stuff. Unfortunately this severely limits if not hinders my chance at most women. Think of a guy who is normally seen all alone on campus and usually doesn't talk to anybody (me). He comes up to a girl he sort of knows or doesn't know and starts to talk to her confidently. Does he really have a chance despite his social awkwardness? (my roomate calls me sociall awkward, and to be honest he is kind of right)

 

Unless we can get an honest women's opinion on the importance of a man's social status, this is my thinking.

 

*also, you are right in that we should all benefit from any advice that is out there; but using your reasoning, the mystery method is a player's method. The last three steps are geared towards getting sex. That is what turned me off to the mystery method, it IS a way of seducing women, many methods of which are blatant lying and playing a role. Thats all it is, despite its success

[Dating Coach]

Your advice made sense but I found it to be too general.

 

I understand, but if you are looking for very specific advice to you, then you're going to have to start posting scenario's with loads of detail for me to help narrow down some major issues.

 

I mean, I don't cater to women or jump through hoops for them. It is just that you made it sound like guys who don't attract women tend to be doormats;

 

For most guys that always end up "the friend" this is true. They usually are the "shoulder to cry on" guy.

 

most guys simply don't put enough effort into it.

 

That also is true, and the effort they do put into it reaks of low self confidence. The most common example are guys who don't ask the girl out early on and instead get close to her first under the disguise of "just friends". Another common example is a guy that only likes to hint that he likes her hoping that she in turn will take control and give him the "go ahead" signal before he makes his move. A confident guy doesn't wait for her okay before he asks her out, he simply does it and let the chips fall were they may.

 

I already know you don't have to act "predatory" to attract women.

 

That was in reference to doubleleg, as it was something he mentioned feeling several times.

 

One of my issues I struggle with is highlighting my confidence. It is hard to define "shy." If someone talks to me I'll talk back without being shy or holding back. I'll see an attractive woman/women and I won't get nervous, but I'll just want to try and talk to them without making it too obvious that I'm "hitting" on them (to the point they think I'm a creep). It is like you need to find that balance of flirting enough to let them know you dont just want to be friends, but not acting like a creep.

 

As you noticed, I underlined two things from your post.

 

The first is one big problem that I spotted. If you are interested in someone then why would you not want to be obvious? Fear of rejection? Fear of her thinking you are a creep? If you let fear control you then you'll never get anywhere.

You know on my long post a couple of posts before this one I mentioned how I had a friend who was a player and that while I never became a "player" like him, I did pick up on many things that he did that appeared to fly with women. One of those was BE OBVIOUS. I'm not talking about being a flagrant pervert, but if he was attracted to a girl she knew it. Not just by what he said by by how he said it and with his body language. There was no secret with him. Hell, I've found that some of the times I had the most success was when I was extremely bold with my approach and flirting. Be obvious. If you hold back being obvious that you are interested and you show that you are hesitant and unsure, you will likely send her those negative vibes.

 

The second part I underlined was about you not wanting to come accross as a creep. About that... you cannot control what other people think about you. Stop worrying about it. Easier said than done, I know, but really... stop it. If you're not a creep and you act confidently then you aren't likely to come accross that way. Check out this scenario posted by a girl on these forums. This guy came accross correctly to her. If you just look at the words you may think, "That wasn't cool at all..." but you weren't there, you didn't see the body language. You didn't hear his tone of voice. Check it out:

 

this may be unrelated. i dont really know. but this really funny guy that i met a few days ago had this conversation with me (btw we were doing a group project with many other people and he didnt really need to do much)

 

him: what do you want me to do now??

me: I dont know

him: Give me something to do!! please??

me: Fine! Go..have sex with a chicken (in a friendly way of course)

him: fine..i will

me: ok then

him: Do you count as a chicken??

 

So he was kind of complimental and funny^^

 

A lot of very conservative guys may think, "Oh that was not appropriate" but the girl posting clearly did not take it that way. The inexperienced guy usually has a wrong impression of how women will take certain things, especially obvious flirting and sexual lingo. You'd be surprised what a woman will let you get away with and respond favorably to if you deliver your message with the correct tone of voice and body language.

 

Here is another scenario of a guy confidently flirting:

 

Originally Posted by NCS i was at a party the other day and a very popular, great looking girl was there and she had a belt with sea shells on it.

 

me: "that's a really interesting belt"

her: "thanks"

me: "you must love the beach"

her: "I do!!!"

me: "so are you more of a surfing-beach person or a tanning-beach person?"

her: "tanning, definitely"

me: "well that's nice, but it won't help you lose an extra pound or two"

her: "omg you're such an arrshole!" *laughs*

...

her all over me

 

Whoa. What happened here? That went so fast that most of you guys are going to miss it. A lot of women are going to attack him for being a jerk... But you know what? Well over 90% of communication is non-verbal. You're just reading what happened. You were not there. You did not see the eye contact. You did not see the body language. So just STOP and see the beauty of the conversation.

 

In so many ways that TINY exchange is perfect, and you would do good to stop and think about everything that it says.

 

On that particular forum, another member said "That's where I would get slapped" and another said " * * *? That's not good game." Don't get stuck on the game comment but realize ... it was great. I replied:

 

"Actually, that is VERY good game. Why? Simply because he noticed something about her that had sentimental or personal value. He did NOT make the mistake most guys make which is to say "You're really hot" or something else. He took a genuine interest in something ABOUT her, made a connection to her PERSONAL life by using his brain and actually *thinking* for a moment. This clearly established himself as someone with well developed social skills. He made it clear he was not some average jerk. Then he poked fun at her in a way that was clearly not offensive to her. She laughed and that was the point."

 

That is way to short to sum it up, but let me tell you ... after the previous 100 guys had walked up to her and said:

 

You're hot.

You're beautiful

Great party, can I get you a drink?

Hi, what's your name?

Hey, what are you drinking?

Hey, what's a nice girl like you doing in a place like this?

Hey, wanna go for a ride in my BMW?

 

Or any other number of COMPLETE BALONEY lines. You better bet she's going to be more than excited when someone comes up and says something... ORIGINAL!

 

 

Another issue I have is being around other guys. I've already said that being my size, no matter what anyone says, makes it difficult to be seen as an "alpha male" I find it much easier talk to girls when there is no other guy in the picture (no competition). This is where I get the most frustrated; I can get social if I want to, but I never try to be the life of the party, it isn't who I am. It is my personality to be friendly but not have to try to steal the attention out of the room and be the center of it.

 

Trust me, I understand the sentiment and once had this problem as well. But you know what? There are some things on your side. I've seen quite often that the guy who tries the hardest to keep a girls attention is the guy who is less likely to get the girl.

 

For example, I've seen two guys compete for a girls attention before. Guy #1 was a good looking guy, dressed nice, and was friendly. He approached a very cute girl at a bar and initiated a conversation. She seemed interested, he body language wasn't bad, and it appeared he was doing well. At first. But he never left. He kept talking to her and trying very hard to keep her interest.

 

Then Guy #2 came over, boldy cut in on their conversation and started talking to her. Guy #1 completely shut down and simply stood there. He stood there. Guy #2 chatted with her for a moment, got her attention, encouraged a few laughs, and then when things were going good he stopped where he was at, told her that would talk to her again later, and he walked away.

 

You'd think that Guy #2 walking away and leaving Guy #1 there to resume his flirting would be a detriment, basically leaving him to keep her attention while Guy #2 was away. Not so. Guy #2 showed he had other things to do rather than suck up to her all night trying to make an impression. He had other friends to talk to, other girls to flirt with, and himself to entertain. He established a stronger self value than Guy #1 did whom even when interrupted from his conversation with the girl, still stood there silently waiting for Guy #2 to finish. He established a lower self value because he non verbally signalled to her that he had nothing better to do at that moment then to sit there waiting for her to turn her attention back towards him.

 

How is this story of benefit for you? Competition isn't just standing there fighting for her attention. Sometimes you're better off served by planting a short seed of flirting and then moving on to talk to others and establish that you are someone worth talking to, someone who is fun, someone who is a challenge. Guy #1 wasn't a challenge, he established that when he wouldn't leave her side and kept trying for her attention. Guy #2 showed her that he didn't need her attention, and because of that, she approached him for a conversation later on and Guy #1 had to stand there and watch. And he was the one who was trying really hard to compete. This story is a benefit to you because it shows you can compete and win without really even trying, not beyond a couple minutes of flirting and then moving on to flirt with others.

 

 

I think it is not enough to say that women are attracted to confidence. It is true, but they are more attracted to confident men that are popular as well as confident. I'm confident in that I know people can like me at first meeting me, including girls.

 

Being confident in life, in sports, in friends, in games, in whatever else isn't the same as confidence in flirting. You lack that confidence because by your own words you fear a girl thinking that you are a creep if you were to flirt too strongly. This comes accross in your body language. Women are smart with this.

 

 

But it is in my personality that I don't strive to be popular or get everybody to like me.

 

You shouldn't strive to get people to like you. Don't you see, this is part of the problem-a need for approval. You really should work to shed yourself of this need. The point is that you need to quit worrying about what other people think and start having fun for yourself and socializing with others. Add that to being flirting and forward with women and you'll eventually find success. I'm not suggesting you be rude or pushy, I am comfortable in thinking that you wouldn't do something like that, but you need to be a bit more open and confident in your flirting and stop worrying about it.

 

 

women respond mostly to confidence and social status in a guy. I don't have a lot of friends and don't make an effort to be popular it is just who I am, I don't care about that stuff.

 

I think you need to start being honest with yourself. You may not want to be the most popular guy around but you clearly have a need to be accepted. If you didn't care about that stuff then you'd have no problems at all telling a girl that you can't take her out because she wouldn't be able to control herself around you. When is the last time you flirted with a girl you just met with sexual lingo? Probably a long time if ever. As I said and described above, women can and do respond positively if you can deliver the message correctly.

 

 

Unfortunately this severely limits if not hinders my chance at most women. Think of a guy who is normally seen all alone on campus and usually doesn't talk to anybody (me). He comes up to a girl he sort of knows or doesn't know and starts to talk to her confidently. Does he really have a chance despite his social awkwardness? (my roomate calls me sociall awkward, and to be honest he is kind of right)

 

You're going to be at a disadvantage for sure. Why? If I saw a guy who never talked to people or flirted, joked, teased, etc... a guy who walked alone, stood alone, etc, then I'd be getting signals that he isn't quite that much fun. I'm not talking about the life of the party fun, I'm talking about a guy who can simply go out there and have a good time. I'd be worried that you have some sort of chip on your shoulder and (if I was a girl) would be more interested in someone whom you can tell knows how to enjoy himself.

 

If you find that you are socially challenged then perhaps you can force yourself to become better. How? A guy on these very forums explained how he did it. He was very shy and reserved, never had the confidence to talk or joke with strangers. You know what he did? He tackled his problem head on. He made himself get a job as a waiter at a busy local restaraunt. He forced himself to interact with people this way and come up with things to say and do with strangers that he waited on. He found ways to entertain them. He also signed up for Oral Communication and practiced there. He was willing to work on it and sure enough he improved his ability to function in a social situation. Perhaps something similar would be good for you?

 

 

Unless we can get an honest women's opinion on the importance of a man's social status, this is my thinking.

 

It has an effect, but not just the status, it's how a man carries himself. It's not just status as I've seen some very popular guys get ignored in by a girl who dated someone with a much lower social status. The guy messed up somehow.

 

 

also, you are right in that we should all benefit from any advice that is out there; but using your reasoning, the mystery method is a player's method. The last three steps are geared towards getting sex. That is what turned me off to the mystery method, it IS a way of seducing women, many methods of which are blatant lying and playing a role. Thats all it is, despite its success

 

If the last three steps are geared towards getting sex then disregard that part and integrate your own final steps. That don't mean that the steps before it won't reveal any good information.

[heloladies21]

Ok, your diagnosis is a little different (and more like mine when I first started doing this) where a doormat personality wasn't the problem so diggity's advice (although correct) doesn't necessarily apply to you, but basically your job is first overcoming a self limiting belief. I had a couple, 1st I was limited by my race, then I set up this belief that no girl was up to my standards, then I hit a mental block where I didn't know how to flirt effectively. So there were many different problems I needed to address and each one had to be handled step by step.

 

If you keep your eyes open, you will notice that there are tons of girls not in conversations with anyone and these are the girls you should target first. There is effectively no competition there, so they're the easiest ones. Hitting on girls in "mixed sets" is a very advanced technique and something I only have a limited experience with. It's not necessary for you to learn how to do this to succeed anyways.

 

As far as guys in the background or other guys in the room, you just have to mentally block these guys out. If you roll up on a chick, her attnetion is going to be on you, so there could be 100 guys in the room and it wouldn't make a difference. It's you and her at that point, that's it.

 

I believe that you are confident, but it's how you express this confidence that's the real issue here. You can feel confident all you want, but if you can't get that accross to the chick, then it's useless to feel that way. How do you do this? A lot of it is in your non-verbal's like your body posture, vocal tone, volume, and inflections, facial expressions. Even though you are not tall, you can stand in a way that will make you seem powerful and confident.

 

And having all the friends you want isn't really related to whether you get girls or not. This one dirtbag acquaintance of mine has exactly zero friends, but gets girls like it's nobody's business. This proves that they're independent skills.

 

Ok, and if you don't like the last three steps, fine don't use them. But nothing is stopping you from using the stuff in the attraction phase. That's all good info right there and you can use the info for only noble purposes like I have. I don't play anyone, just the opposite, I only hit on girls that I would have an intention of making my gf. This info is definitely very useful for that purpose.

 

Whether you use this informatin for good or evil is very much a decision solely in your control. Just because you use some of the information in mysterymethod doesn't mean you will be acting like a player. You make that choice all on your own.

[doubleg137]

Is this advice or a Tolstoy novel? dang..

[heloladies21]

Yeah it's cool to basically bite the hand that's trying to help you, but anyways, these posts aren't directed at you and to be honest it's gonna take posts this size to get through to you that this is something you can do and how to do it. So if you still want our (uncompensated) help, you probably don't want to criticize us when we're trying to be thorough because you're one of the ones who's having trouble getting a hold of this.

[heloladies21]

You deleted your response, but it was still in the email.

 

For you, just stick to alone girls.

[heloladies21]

And why are you ignoring my advice of not going to clubs to get girls? It's not necessary, you can get girls anywhere else.

 

And you don;t just treat people nice, you do it to the point where people see right through it and think you are fake. And I'm sure your pessimistic personality shines right through as well.

 

And we're not going to get back into that "you have to be a jerk conversation." Go back and read earlier in the thread for that answer, I'm done trying to convince you of that. And I take it personally too, because I have a gf and she's great and I am the furthest thing from a jerk. Are you saying that I had to be a jerk to get my gf? Are you calling me a jerk?

[Don_Eduardo]

You may not call yourselves players, Diggity and Heloladies, which is fair enough, I hear where you're coming from. To me though, attracting women just seems too much like a game. I guess I'm an idealist at heart, and I'm like 'why does it have to be this way?' You know?

 

It's a pretty frustrating business to say the least. Like right now I'm doing some voluntary work (at a phone helpline) with 3 women. And I'm the only guy. It's a shift of 3 hours long and we're all waiting for calls to come in (it's not busy for some reason, halloween night perhaps..). Anyway the women are all chatting away to each other (or bonding, if you like) in the other room and I'm in the computer room reading these posts... Honestly, the last thing on my mind is to bowl up to one of them and go 'would you like to have a coffee with me, etc., etc.?' It would just feel so unnatural. I would indeed feel like a predator/creep doing that.

 

I have an issue with what Heloladies says in that he would only flirt with a woman whom he'd be prepared to have as a g/f. But how does he know her enough from simple flirting if he'd like to have her as a g/f? Like I wouldn't want any of these girls I'm working with as a g/f simply because I don't them well enough. I don't see what's wrong with making friends with a woman first, because, for me, that's how I'd figure out if she was compatible with me or not. So DiggityDogg likening making friends with women first as 'slinking under the radar' is vaguely offensive, as making friends with women is a sure way to get to know them.

 

What's wrong with having women as friends anyway? I've got some great friendships with women (although I did consider at one stage having them as girlfriend material). I just think some women are better having as friends, especially the ones who's friendships I consider special enough to be lifelong.

 

So thinking about that, this is probably why I don't feel the compunction to go up to a relatively unknown girl and ask her out. I DON'T KNOW HER. In the end isn't it the personality that people that people relate with not the exterior? The comfort factor. As in if we were friends first, I'd be comfortable enough to ask them out, although the flipside of that coin is the 'rules of female attrraction' which usually equates to friendship is all it's ever going to be! Which isn't bad in of itself, but if I was looking for a sexual relationship, then I'm going about it in the wrong way right?

[heloladies21]

OK, that's good that you speak up so we can address these concerns.

 

attracting women just seems too much like a game. I guess I'm an idealist at heart, and I'm like 'why does it have to be this way?' You know?

I do not advicate any type of game playing, just the opposite I tell guys not to do it for the simple fact that it's not necessary to get girls and in most situations does not work. My study of attracting women has boiled down to improving my communication skills much in the same way that I study a foreign language, just with a psychological component involved. It's like this, I used to meet these girls all being myself and stuff, but things would just go astray. I had the best of intentions, but something would give them the impression that I wasn't being real with them. My flirting came out all wrong, I just didn't know how to express myself in a way that they would understand. I also didn't know what it meant when a woman said certian things, like how I percieved it was different than how they meant it. Also I didn't understand that women test men, and it's up to us guys to understand what a chick is really looking for when she puts a test on you.

 

I am a bit of an idealist myself so I understand where you're coming from. Just realize that none of my study has really touched this. I firmly believe that you can get a gf and have her be totally committed and in love with you once you understand how to communicate with them. This is done verbally and non-verbally.

 

It's a pretty frustrating business to say the least. Like right now I'm doing some voluntary work (at a phone helpline) with 3 women. And I'm the only guy. It's a shift of 3 hours long and we're all waiting for calls to come in (it's not busy for some reason, halloween night perhaps..). Anyway the women are all chatting away to each other (or bonding, if you like) in the other room and I'm in the computer room reading these posts... Honestly, the last thing on my mind is to bowl up to one of them and go 'would you like to have a coffee with me, etc., etc.?' It would just feel so unnatural. I would indeed feel like a predator/creep doing that.

Doing that wouldn't work anyways. You're skipping the whole attraction phase where you could get to know one of the chicks and get her to know you. The only girls who just strolling up to and asking them out would work on would only be interested in your physical and you want someone who wants you for your mental because the physical always wears off after a bit for girls.

 

So in summary, you have to get to know the girl before you ask her out. How well you have to know her doesn't have to be that long though, I've asked girls out after a 10 minute conversation after just meeting them. Then I talk to them on the phone or get together with them and get to know them better. All this time I'm still keeping my mind open to whether or not I still want to pursue something with her, and if I ever change my mind, I just stop.

 

I have an issue with what Heloladies says in that he would only flirt with a woman whom he'd be prepared to have as a g/f. But how does he know her enough from simple flirting if he'd like to have her as a g/f? Like I wouldn't want any of these girls I'm working with as a g/f simply because I don't them well enough.

Lemme rephrase that, I would opnly hit on a girl who I am physically attracted enough to make my gf, but my decision making doesn't end there. She hasn't won me over yet just because she's another pretty face. I then get to know her, and if I like what I hear, then I proceed, and at any time I am free to walk away.

 

I don't see what's wrong with making friends with a woman first, because, for me, that's how I'd figure out if she was compatible with me or not. So DiggityDogg likening making friends with women first as 'slinking under the radar' is vaguely offensive, as making friends with women is a sure way to get to know them.

Diggity brings this up because this is a common problem for lots of guys here and this might or might not apply to you. If you constantly get girls saying to you "let's just be friend" when you try and express your romantic interest in her, then it applies to you. If you're too afraid to proceed romantically because it might ruin the friendship, then this advice applies to you. Unless you have had success making girls into your gf's after making them your friends first, you probably want to change your outlook on this as this method has been proven not to work. It sends conflicting messages to a girl because friendship and romantic interest are very distinct emotions and they can't be interchanged with each other. That's why I see a ton of friendships turned into romances just falter as the chick just thinks the guy is either confused or not for real about her.

 

Do you see what I mean about this being a communication issue? Even though you're just trying to make up your mind about her, she's gonna think that you're not serious about her and this turns her off. You gotta plan for this and adjust your language accordingly and you do this best by pursuing it romantically right off the bat while still getting to know her.

 

What's wrong with having women as friends anyway? I've got some great friendships with women (although I did consider at one stage having them as girlfriend material). I just think some women are better having as friends, especially the ones who's friendships I consider special enough to be lifelong.

Nothing wrong with it, as long as you don't have romantic interest in them. This only serves to confuse you because the friendships aren't really friendships at all, merely disguised crushes. And if you eventually find them attractive enough to want them to be your gf, then you at the very least found them physically attractive right from the start and would've been better served going romantic right from the start.

 

I'm sorry it has to be this way, but this is just the way the world and women work and you'd have to go against millions of years of evolution to try and change it. Good luck with that!

 

So thinking about that, this is probably why I don't feel the compunction to go up to a relatively unknown girl and ask her out. I DON'T KNOW HER.

Once again, you misunderstand what we're stressing. The successful progression is you initiate a conversation with a girl, you ask for her number (if things are great you ask her out on a date right then and there, set up for the future or immediately), you call her up or go on the date and get to know her more, you get sexual with her at some point after x amount of time or dates, THEN you decide if you want her to be your gf.

 

 

The comfort factor. As in if we were friends first, I'd be comfortable enough to ask them out, although the flipside of that coin is the 'rules of female attrraction' which usually equates to friendship is all it's ever going to be! Which isn't bad in of itself, but if I was looking for a sexual relationship, then I'm going about it in the wrong way right?

You summed it up right there, and you're not going to change the way women act or think, so you're going to have to adapt and learn, or get left behind. The choice is yours.

[Don_Eduardo]

Thanks for all those tips Helo. I guess know what you're saying already as I've read basic variants of them on other websites. Okay so what you're saying is you let them know straight out you're interested in them romantically, and from that foundation get to know them (not as regular friends, but romantic friends, right?). Okay that makes sense to me, as girls would at least expect to know where they stand. Suddenly expressing romantic interest in them after a friendship period may startle them (especially if they sense the friendship period was a deliberate ploy to get to that confession of romantic expression stage). Okay I get all that, and understand it now.

 

My problem I think is having the confidence to express a romantic interest 'straight off the bat' as you say. It's a social skills thing with me, like when I'm in a social situation with girls who are pretty much strangers (or anyone I don't know very well, for that matter), the last thing on my mind is cracking on to them! I'm barely hanging in there as it is, because my social skills aren't very good.

 

Like on top of never having a girlfriend, I've never been able to make friends very well. Like the girls who are my friends now were primarily responsible for my current friendships with them. In other words, I didn't make the first move - or take the initiative - to cause the friendships I have now with them, they were the ones who definetely did that! They smiled, came over to chat, asked me about myself, etc. so I reciprocated, and woow it's cool to have them as friends to say the least.

 

So you see where I'm heading with this? By the time I'm in friendly conversational proximity to people, I'm so clammed up that I'm basically on auto-pilot! Much of any ensuing conversation's lifespan would owe itself most directly to them, not me. On the other hand, if it is the case that I'm friends with that person or people (or feel comfortable around them due to an acquaintance-style familiarity), then I can talk and talk for ages!! You see what I mean then, about being friends first to feel the confidence enough to ask the romantic type of questions/act flirtatiously? However, by the time I'm friends I don't really feel about them that way (like you said, we didn't start off our association based upon a sexual/flirting manner), and am simply happy keeping them as friends! It's becomes like a catch-22 scenario then, I don't have the confidence to flirt unless we're friends or good acquaintances first but such relating-in-a-sexual-manner behaviour loses its power once the 'cage' of friendship closes around us. Although 'cage' probably has too many negative connotations regarding what I'm trying to illustrate, because I feel highly confident whenever I'm around my friends and good acquaintances - basically, I act like a friend and in NO WAY act as a sexual dude.

 

The problem is (probably due to lack of confidence in a social situation then), that I have no idea what to say to express my interest in them in a flirtatious or sexual manner! The conversation is stuttering like an old muffler so that to consider flirting would be ludicrous, you know!? That's why if I laid some flirtatious comment on the line it would come out all wrong, I believe. Far out, this whole thing it's like a chasm that I can't see the other side of. It's like I can't begin to imagine what having a girlfriend would be like, so similarly, it's like I can't begin to imagine what I need to say in order to attract one.

 

Okay I know about a line such as this 'you look pretty in that shirt, haircut, shoes, etc.' But that's about it! Flirting with girls seems like such a foreign concept, and teasing them about something in a confident manner even more so! If I even felt compelled to say something (and actually said it), it would be the line above, something teasing is like a whole other ballgame. HOWEVER, I do know the concept of attracting women in this way as I've seen it happen right in front of my very eyes so very often (at parties, flatmates getting with flatmates, etc.). So I don't need to know what it is or why it has the effect it does, what I do need (and desperately) is how to put it into practice and having the confidence to act as the spark.

[heloladies21]

OK good! You came to a lot of discoveries there so now let's take it a step further so we can get you to the nitty gritty of how to do this. The part you need help with (social skills) is very learnable and at this point, if you just put in the time and effort to reseach and practice this, you will inevitably get good with girls.

 

We need to get you over something called approach anxiety. Those are the butterflies/doubts that prevent you from approaching girls (people in general) and there is one sure fire tested way to over come this. Memorize three opening lines and practice delivering them. First in your head, then out loud, then try in real life. You want them to me so well known that you don't even have to think about them. You want them to be second nature. Then you drill them, practice the delivery.

 

Okay I know about a line such as this 'you look pretty in that shirt, haircut, shoes, etc.' But that's about it! Flirting with girls seems like such a foreign concept, and teasing them about something in a confident manner even more so! If I even felt compelled to say something (and actually said it), it would be the line above, something teasing is like a whole other ballgame. HOWEVER, I do know the concept of attracting women in this way as I've seen it happen right in front of my very eyes so very often (at parties, flatmates getting with flatmates, etc.). So I don't need to know what it is or why it has the effect it does, what I do need (and desperately) is how to put it into practice and having the confidence to act as the spark.

You want to use a better line than that, because women are so used to having someone compliment them to try and win their afections. You just come off as another one of those guys just trying to get into their pants, so the solution is to use a better opener. Like ask them their opinion on something for example. Mystery's got tons of these too.

 

Now flirting, you can best see this by example. I prefer to use something of a cross between Howard Stern and Austin Powers, it's just a funny style of flirting with sexual innuendo.

[Dating Coach]

I've already read the responses after this, but I wanted to add a few things here too, or in some circumstances repeat what Heloladies said.

 

You may not call yourselves players, Diggity and Heloladies, which is fair enough, I hear where you're coming from. To me though, attracting women just seems too much like a game. I guess I'm an idealist at heart, and I'm like 'why does it have to be this way?' You know?

 

Of course we don't call ourselves players. We aren't. We have every intention of dating to find a partner to be with. We simply have devoted ourselves to increasing our social abilities and understanding of how women respond in the dating scene and how best to communicate with them. I defined what a player is before and that is a selfish guy who uses women or manipulates them with lies. Neither of us do anything like that at all. We are good guys who simply were willing to put in the work to improve our social skills.

 

As far as "why does it have to be this way?" That's the wrong question. People generally work and respond in certain ways to certain things. We still respond a lot by instinct and feelings as well as how our society is structured.

If you think the right way would be for you to sit on your tail until a woman approached you and took every initiative to start a relationship with you then you're being pretty selfish. Nor should you expect a woman to find you attractive or assign you a high value when you don't even assign yourself a high value. If your every move and action signals low confidence and low self respect then how can you realistically think that women should still see what you've got to offer? That's quite a burden you are willing to place upon women without taking any responsibility yourself. I don't believe that is fair at all, do you? Of course not, so what's the big deal with putting in a little effort to improve your communication, so you can better communicate with women and send the correct impression towards her?

 

It's a pretty frustrating business to say the least. Like right now I'm doing some voluntary work (at a phone helpline) with 3 women. And I'm the only guy. It's a shift of 3 hours long and we're all waiting for calls to come in (it's not busy for some reason, halloween night perhaps..). Anyway the women are all chatting away to each other (or bonding, if you like) in the other room and I'm in the computer room reading these posts... Honestly, the last thing on my mind is to bowl up to one of them and go 'would you like to have a coffee with me, etc., etc.?' It would just feel so unnatural. I would indeed feel like a predator/creep doing that.

 

Of course is can be frustrating, especially if you have little or no understanding of attraction & dating. Anytime you feel at the mercy of something that you do not like nor understand you will be frustrated. That's a normal feeling you are having. We felt that way too. The difference is that we did something about it. We too were frustrated due to failure and lack of understanding women. What we did was take the initiative to educate ourselves. What is wrong with that? Nothing. There is no reason why guys should feel it is wrong to educate yourselves on how to improve your communication with women.

 

As far as marching up to random women and asking them out on a date, no one is suggesting that and heloladies explained that you are skipping an important part... building attraction. Will explain further...

 

 

I have an issue with what Heloladies says in that he would only flirt with a woman whom he'd be prepared to have as a g/f. But how does he know her enough from simple flirting if he'd like to have her as a g/f? Like I wouldn't want any of these girls I'm working with as a g/f simply because I don't them well enough. I don't see what's wrong with making friends with a woman first, because, for me, that's how I'd figure out if she was compatible with me or not. So DiggityDogg likening making friends with women first as 'slinking under the radar' is vaguely offensive, as making friends with women is a sure way to get to know them.

 

I think in the following exchange between you and Heloladies you guys covered this pretty well but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

 

First off, the whole idea of dating is to get to know someone. When you are dating you aren't saying, "You are the one for me", because you aren't boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife. You are simply two people being honest with each other that there is some attraction or connection at a romantic level and you are willing to go out to get to know each other better in order to see if you are compatible. You're getting to know each other honestly, knowing that each person acknowledges the attraction and are moving down a path with a defined potential ending... a relationship.

The problem with starting off with being "just friends" can be described in many different ways. The far most common of those is when someone isn't being honest with where they hope the "relationship" ends up. A person who is building that relationship attraction without letting the other person know where he/she hopes the destination may be is being dishonest. That's a horrible way to do it. For one, it's dishonest. Two, it's being lazy. Three, it shows a lack of self confidence and self respect. Four, it has a low success rate, and even if it could have succeeded then it would have succeeded anyway if you were honest. I could go on, but I believe the point is made.

 

What's wrong with having women as friends anyway? I've got some great friendships with women (although I did consider at one stage having them as girlfriend material). I just think some women are better having as friends, especially the ones who's friendships I consider special enough to be lifelong.

 

Nothing is wrong with having women friends. I have a lot of women friends. What's wrong is placing the "friend" label as your official title yet secretly having designs as more than friends. It's dishonest and not even very successful. Plus, it tends to end up hurting people more. Why? Well think about it. A girl will usually decide pretty quickly if she thinks you have any potential as a romantic parter. If she decides this (typically) within 1-5 meetings then you do nothing but waste time sneaking in as "friends" before finding out what that answer has been since the beginning. Not only that, but if you wait months on end, or even years, then all you do is become more and more emotionally attached when her answer may have been "No." since Day 1! You just wasted a chunk of your life pursuing someone who was never interested and now you're hurting because you allowed yourself to grow head over heels for that person.

Just take a look at these forums filled with guys who have done this and see how bad they are hurting. I see these posts all of the time. When they finally confess their crush and are rejected, they are destroyed. Not only that, but it puts a lot of drama and strain on the girl as well. I've seen many of these "friendships" collapse due to this approach. It's simply not a good idea all around. Of course there are a lucky few who manage to pull it off, but even that very tiny number usually fail in the end due to the guy not being ready for an adult relationship with his low self confidence and self esteem-which is usually an attraction killer for the girl.

 

So thinking about that, this is probably why I don't feel the compunction to go up to a relatively unknown girl and ask her out. I DON'T KNOW HER. In the end isn't it the personality that people that people relate with not the exterior? The comfort factor. As in if we were friends first, I'd be comfortable enough to ask them out, although the flipside of that coin is the 'rules of female attrraction' which usually equates to friendship is all it's ever going to be! Which isn't bad in of itself, but if I was looking for a sexual relationship, then I'm going about it in the wrong way right?

 

Not everything in life is going to be comfortable. In fact, I've yet to see a guy one these forums talk about how comfortable it was for him to ask out his "friend" aka secret crush. Most of these guys had a hell of a time finally doing it because he did nothing but build up the pressure over time.

 

Besides, aren't you willing to make some sacrifices for the betterment of all? As I've already covered, the whole point of dating is to get to know each other on a honest foot by acknowledging a possible attraction. If by dating you find out that you aren't interested in each other, at least you find out now rather than months down the road when you finally spill your guts.

[doubleg137]

I think its very frustrating trying to get the advice and straighten out this bag of snakes in my head to try to get some procedure down. Since I barely have the slightest clue how to go about it, its going to take a lot of time, not really on the order of 50 years, at least I don't hope so. Its going to take some practice after reading some more of the advice you guys give me after some trial and much error.

 

Im trying to be patient, but its very difficult to be patient or positive after years upon years upon years upon years of soul crushing failures.

[Dating Coach]

The past is the past and you should take comfort that you finally have some direction that can help you... as long as you are willing to accept the help and put in the work that will allow it to help.

 

You most likely won't see immediate success. I didn't start having real success until about 2 years after taking it upon myself to improve my situation. I did start getting more dates after the first year but it wasn't until the second year that I finally started getting into relationships. It's going to take work and patience. Look at it this way, it's not like you were expecting success anyway, so what's the big deal about a couple years work?

[doubleg137]

If I were to call you a jerk, I would do it directly and to the point. I wouldn't sugar coat it, I would hit right between the eyes. The statement about jerks goes back to my experiences with people that you would have to have to see it from my perspective. I apologize if you took it that way.

[doubleg137]

I will have some questions for you tomorrow regarding your guide and maybe some perspectives on the mystery method guides as well.

[Dating Coach]

We're always here for help.