Why some of us are depressed. The real reasons!

[Outcasted]

I've been reading this forum on and off, and have seen a trend in a lot of the posts. Read the following of a typical post of the trend I'm talking about

I must also say that I'm also very depressed and can relate. Since I'm always trying to find a scientific reason for everything, I have put thought into why I'm depressed and a lot of us on here. I want to have answers and see the big picture, I just was not satisfied with a lot of the answers I've been reading. But here is the sad, unchangeable truth that a lot of us have to face. I think these are also the underlying reasons for a lot of our depressions, and you won't get these answers from the liberal culture we live in.

 

The simple all encompassing answer is that we are unfortunately born with inferior genetics, genetics that basically make us losers. These genetics hold us back socialy, usually by making us ugly and not giving us the personalities we need to make it in this world. To further hurt the problem, our parents who gave us these inferior genetics also had them, and they raised us to deal with the world the way they were forced to deal with the world --- Like losers.

 

The sad truth is that the world we evolved in is not a nice world like we were brought up to think it is. Evolution is still in full force, sub-par genetics will be unapolgetically weeded out of existence, and for all good reasons it should be. Why can't we find girlfriends? Because women choose the best genetics for their offspring, why would they want our sub-par genetics? They will choose the best genetic partners, as they have done through evolution.

Read "sperm wars" to get a better understanding.

 

The other problem we are faced with is why can't we make friends? There are mainly 2 reasons we live our lives, to survive and reproduce. Mostly everything are based on these 2 things, like it or not. Since we don't have any problems in the survival area most of all of our problems is in the reproduction area.

Basically human survival and reproduction means aligning yourself with other people whom have a high value in these areas. Why would anyone want to align themselves with us? How could we possibly help their reproduction? If anything we mostly hurt their reproduction possibilities because people can base us on our friends. Be seen with a loser you must also be a loser.

 

 

Why do we get depressed to the verge of suicide? I've been trying to figure out the evolutionary advantage reasons for this, it just didn't make sense that we have a "chemical imbalance" or something that was out of our conrol like the liberal culture wants us to think (some do, but this is a rare). Our bodies are making us depressed for a reason. Our bodies are pushing us to do all we can do to reproduce ourselves, because it is aware of us being total failures and not being able to replicate itself (it doesn't want to be weeded out of existence) "Read the selfish gene for a more understanding of this". It is in a sense punishing us for failing in life in the worse way possible, it is making us depressed.. With pain so unbearable we actually kill ourselves. This severe punishment is actually acting like a motivator for us to do anything we can do to make it in this world (to make the pain stop) and it does actually work. Why do you think we are all here looking for answers, our depression is motivating us? I'm currently making all plans of my life right now to get out of this depression, it is a powerful motivator. Our bodies just don't want to let us losers weed it out of existence, our genes want to survive and they will do all they can. Again read "the selfish gene"

 

What are our real or only options to get out of this depression? We are going to have to firstly satisfy our bodies need for reproduction. When I say this I don't mean to have actual kids (although this would probably help, our bodies just need to know that we can have kids when we want), but to have a partner who our bodies deem genetically worthy.. Our bodies want good genetic partners, so having a sub-par genetic partner may not take us out of the depression. You must see though that in order to get that good genetic partner we are going to have to have friends of high value. So getting high value friends will also help.

 

Guys good luck out there! Some of us will make it and some of us will fail.. Continue to fail and your body will continue to punish your loser * * * in the worst possible way with "DEPRESSION". Make it and you will live a good life.

 

I was smart enough to have found my niche. I have found a place in Europe, in a certain city, where I use my American foreign status to get a higher social standing. This makes up for having the sub-par genetics. Since it is also a different culture other than American, the people can't see so easily the loser that I am. When in this european city, I have girlfriends, friends and the life that people with good genetics are having here in America. When I am there I am not depressed. Unfortunately due to money problems I am forced back to America to work, where I immidiately get depressed. This depression motivates me to get back to europe. You see it does actually work.

 

Proof of my theory. Here are some links to posts of depressed people who suffer from threatened reproduction.

 

 

 

[Outcasted]

Just wanted to point out that this is the underlying problem or the root of our depressions. A lot of thearpy and medication try to treat the symptoms and they don't try to focus on the root of the depression.

 

This seems to be a problem with a lot of human sicknesses. A good example is that I had Repetive stress injury, similar to carpal tunnel syndrome, so bad that I couldn't use the computer.. all the doctors did was advice medication and wrist splints.. nothing got better. This is until I decided to read a book about the psycholgical reasons and the pain was actually in my head. Now my pain is gone when I thought it would never go. But the interesting point about this is that I've tried to help other people who have similar problems but they don't want to even listen to me, but to just trust the doctors and the general opinion.

 

Hopefully you guys out there are smart enough to look for the real reasons and try to attack them directly. Its the only way to heal in the long run.

[sumguy]

Sorry, but I categorically disagree with every point you made in the first post. No one is born a loser, no one is fated to kill themselves, and no one is powerless to change.

 

Though I do agree with the second post.

[Managor]

Uh, I disagree. Strongly.

 

Firstly, things like inferior genes may give some people an advantage, make them slightly more intelligent, funnier, etc, but anyone if they put effort in can make friends. The same goes for physical appearance (Unless you have real physical deformities) though appearance should be something a person can accept about themselves. The movie Gattaca comes to mind here, if you haven't seen it before I recommend it.

 

Though our ancestors purposes, being that they couldn't think at the level we can, didn't have technology or proper sociaty, were not dissimilar to that of animals, our advances in those areas mean there's more to life than being alive and procreating.

 

Things like "be seen with a loser you must also be a loser" are the kinds of attitudes most people grow out of when they're around 18 or 20, and people that still keep that kind of mentality at an older age can be safely ignored.

 

The world's gone beyond men running around trying to find women to mate with. Instead of telling people there problems lie in their genes, it'd be better to get people to understand that problems such as depression, whether clinical or environmental(caused by situations, etc), can be resolved, by a whole range of things from antidepressants, to eliminating negative thought patterns (always putting oneself down), to increasing self esteem and confidence, to bettering oneself socially(which is very possible), to changing one's jobs and other aspects of life to better as a person.

[NJRon]

All people have deficiencies. Overcoming these deficiencies builds strenth. The way one does it is a reflection of character.

 

When one has been handed a great burden to bear, or a weakness to overcome, there is an opportunity to grow. The person gets the choice of method to use. The result of positive growth is strength of character, which can be used to help yourself and others, through times and troubles.

[nottoogreen]

I disagree with your opinion for the simple reason that evolution does not mess up to the extent of prevalence of depression in particular in western countries.

 

I have not seen one depressed poster on eNotAlone without serious imbalances in their life. I can not recall any one poster with major depression without a history of one or more of the following. The list is in order of prevalence.

1. Abusive parents
   
2. Broken families
   
3. Sexual abuse
   
4. Living with a depressed person
   
5. Overcontrolling parents
   
6. Neglect by parents
   
7. Abusive partners
   
8. Ridicule, bullying
   
9. Fashion - can't accept ones body
   
10. Lack of understanding by others > loneliness
    
11. Physical health, accidents, disfigurement
    
12. Over-expectations > foolishness, job loss, loss of a loved one. - quite rare actually.
    

Sure, genetics plays a role, some people are sick easier than others but our brains are way to well evolved to be messed up like that.

 

One thing is sure, depression is contagious in families and relationships - added to list.

 

Edited based on feedback, thank you.

[Managor]

I disagree with your opinion for the simple reason that evolution does not mess up to the extent of prevalence of depression in particular in western countries.

 

I have not seen one depressed poster on eNotAlone without serious imbalances in their life. I can not recall any one poster with major depression without a history of one or more of the following. The list is in order of prevalence.

1. Abusive parents
   
2. Broken families
   
3. Sexual abuse
   
4. Overcontrolling parents
   
5. Neglect by parents
   
6. Abusive partners
   
7. Ridicule, bullying
   
8. Fashion - can't accept ones body
   
9. Physical health, accidents, disfigurement
   
10. Over-expectations, foolishness - quite rare actually.
    

Sure, genetics plays a role, some people are sick easier than others but our brains are way to well evolved to be messed up like that.

 

One thing is sure, depression is contagious in families and relationships.

 

I would consider myself to have major depression and I am not subject to anything on that list.

 

I think you forgot a few things on that list, such as

 

• Loneliness
  
• Career related
  
• As a result of anxiety
  
• A lot of others
  

[nottoogreen]

I would consider myself to have major depression and I am not subject to anything on that list.

Really?

I think you forgot a few things on that list, such as

 

• A lot of others
  

Which? Please expand.

[Managor]

link removed

 

Also note that the last one, Evolutionary biological hypotheses of depression, refers to something unrelated to what the OP was saying.

 

 

 

Yes.

[NJRon]

Loneliness, anxiety and the willingness to stay/engage in an unhealthy situation/behavior (e.g. unfulfilling career, substance abuse, co-dependent relationships, etc.) are signs/symptoms... not causes.

[Managor]

While depression may also induce feelings of loneliness, anxiety and the rest you mentioned, NJRon, I think it works the other way too.

 

Being in an unfulfilling career, getting addicted to something, and being lonely can occur independent of depression, and to me they seem like very realistic reasons to fall into depression.

[NJRon]

I do agree that, when the cycle starts, it builds. It feeds itself. It grows and grows until it seems unmanagable. When your life seems unmanagable, the depression hits hard.

 

So, to me, the way to attack depression is to first attack the reasons for it's unmanagability. This is best done at the root of the problem, not the branches.

[Outcasted]

Also note that the last one, Evolutionary biological hypotheses of depression, refers to something unrelated to what the OP was saying.

 

How is it unrelated, I guess that is what I'm mostly talking about is the evolutionary biological hypotheses of depression.

 

I'm willing to bet that if we look into most cases of people's depression on this forum it will usually show us that their "reproduction" ability is threatened in some way (at least with males). You people who disagree are failing to understand that the only laws we humans live by is to survive and reproduce. This has been the evolutionary forces that have been driving us since the beginning of life.

Since we all have no troubles surviving in this modern day, all depressions are related to threats of reproduction. I even think that if our survival was in trouble we would actually not be depressed because depression would be a disadvantage to surviving. So if we took a depressed person and threw him in the desert he surely would not be depressed anymore!

[sumguy]

While sole survival to reproduce might have been the driving force behind humanity in the past - and is still an intergal part of our instinctual behavior now - I'd like to think we've moved beyond that.

 

And your theory is still flawed, people worse off than the people you refer to are married and have kids, and people better off the the people you refer to are alone and depressed. Surely you've met a "jock" with depression, or one of the "popular girls" suffering an identity crisis.

[NJRon]

You people who disagree are failing to understand that the only laws we humans live by is to survive and reproduce.

 

From my vantage, you are failing to understand that, as more than merely meat sacks, we live also by laws outside our physiology.

 

If you promulgate the belief that you are entirely driven by physiology, then you will, indeed, have an excellent crutch on which to lean as you limp through life.

[Managor]

I do agree that, when the cycle starts, it builds. It feeds itself. It grows and grows until it seems unmanagable. When your life seems unmanagable, the depression hits hard.

 

So, to me, the way to attack depression is to first attack the reasons for it's unmanagability. This is best done at the root of the problem, not the branches.

 

I agree completely with you on that, NJRon.

 

How is it unrelated, I guess that is what I'm mostly talking about is the evolutionary biological hypotheses of depression.

 

It's unrelated because that theory suggests depression is a built in mechanism for some not-yet-known reason. What you appeared to be saying about evolution was that it'd kick off the biologically weak, as it's done in the past, not that depression was a mechanism generated through evolution.

 

You people who disagree are failing to understand that the only laws we humans live by is to survive and reproduce. This has been the evolutionary forces that have been driving us since the beginning of life

 

From the beginning of life, until we were intelligent enough to live off of our own agendas. I never worry about survival or reproduction. To me, reproduction is irrelevant.

[nottoogreen]

... all depressions are related to threats of reproduction.

No way, few yes, but it is covered by health.

I even think that if our survival was in trouble we would actually not be depressed because depression would be a disadvantage to surviving. So if we took a depressed person and threw him in the desert he surely would not be depressed anymore!

Absolutely, because most depressing causes would be eliminated in no time. Then said person would be lonely, horny, unable to reproduce but still try all to survive in the hope to get out of there.

[Outcasted]

Wanted to clarify when I say reproduction, I don't mean to just start popping kids out. Our bodies really need a partner who we know we can reproduce with when the time is right.

 

 

Depression is with us for a reason, what are the benifits of depression? Obviosuly the people who get depressed had some kind of evolutionary advantage through evolution, that is why its still with us.

You can't think of depression as some kind of ab-normal sickness, it is not.

[nottoogreen]

Balance of Expectations and Ability

 

We are happy when life turns out as we expect or better. It makes us feel good and enthusiastic. Our self esteem improves too.

 

We are not happy when life does not turn out as we expect. Our self esteem suffers as well.

• When we drop something and it breaks, we are disappointed and we often regret what we did. When what broke belonged to someone else, they may be angry, the more so when the item was irreplaceable. This aggravates our disappointment.
  
• We are disappointed when we look forward to meet someone and they cancel, when this happens often with someone, we can get angry.
  
• We are disappointed when flunking a test.
  
• We are hurt when suffering abuse or ridicule because of the discrepancy between what we think of ourselves and what others said or did to us.
  
• We hurt when someone we love suffers as we expect the best for our loved ones.
  

 

When we experience more disappointments and more hurt than we can handle, we feel mentally tired and depressed. Some people are more sensitive and soft and feel and think more and thus are more prone to develop depression and may feel more depressed too. Sensitivity and softness are good traits but it seems more difficult to those to be tough as well in order to survive adversity.

 

Depression

What is depression? Depression is a mental pain caused by an imbalance between expectations and ability. To make the pain go away, one has to improve ones ability (do better) and/or change ones expectations. In other words, to avoid depression, one ought to balance ability and expectations.

 

Expectations

When having suffered trauma (abuse, accidents, rape, ridicule)

, one has to overcome negative feelings which "broke" expectations or ability by regardless emphasizing on positive thoughts and a good future. Also feelings of guilt must be overcome.

Always remember, what someone did to you was not your fault!!!

 

Otherwise

, sometimes expectations are too high and must be reduced by dropping things one is unable to do. Examples include overcoming a breakup, loss of a loved one, unrealistic objectives about career, peoples behavior or looking like a super model.

 

Ability

Improving ones ability (doing better) can include for example overcoming lethargy, exercise, work better (often less hours!), learning new things, developing interests and hobbies, spending less time on unproductive and draining favorites like TV, RPG, online, party and hanging out, spending more time with loved ones and strong friends. Reduction of expectations usually is the only solution after loss bodily capability such as loss limb for example.

 

Self-esteem and self-worth always are part of ones "basic" expectations.

 

Change is cure. These ideas are by no means novel. Change requires patience and persistence as it's the case with all success. And there will be setbacks, it will take time to heal and improve.

 

Disappointment follows the same rules but is not classified as depression as it involves short term symptoms - minutes to days, and we get over it. Depression generally involves medium to longterm symptoms - months to years.

 

Behavioral Patterns

Enthusiasm, Fear, Disappointment, Anger and Depression are closely related. Ones Self Esteem also plays a major role as it acts like an amplifier either way.

 

Healthy Behavior

• Loss > Disappointment > Resolution
  
• Sense > Fear > Resolution
  
• Thought > Fear > Resolution
  
• Big Disappointment > Anger
  
• Big Fear > Anger
  
• Anger & High Self Esteem > Enthusiasm > Resolution
  
• Resolution > Higher Self Esteem
  

 

Unhealthy Behavior

• Anger > Aggression
  
• Anger > Unresolved Anger (Boxing it up)
  
• Prolonged or Frequent Disappointment or Anger > Lower Self Esteem
  

Depressed Behavior

• Low Self Esteem & Disappointment > Self Hate
  
• Low Self Esteem & Frequent Anger > Devastation
  
• Prolonged Disappointment & Low Self Esteem > Depression
  
• Prolonged Anger & Low Self Esteem > Major Depression
  
• Major Depression & Anger > Self Harm
  
• Prolonged Major Depression & Predisposition > Bipolar Disorder
  
• Prolonged Major Depression & Devastation > Bipolar Disorder
  

Compulsive Behavior

• Low Self esteem & Abuse > Lower Self Esteem
  
• Low Self Esteem & Depression > Lower Self Esteem
  
• Past Self Harm & Anger > Self Harm Repeated
  

________________________

More on Expectations and Ability

Basic expectations about yourself

• You are a good person who deserves to be loved and respected
  
• Expect to appreciate others
  
• You can overcome adversity
  
• You have a future
  

Expectations about others

• Do not easily expect understanding
  
• Do not expect others to appreciate you
  
• Expect honesty
  
• Expect respect
  

Unmeetable Expectations

• Abuse - You can't fix your abuser and he won't stop, get out - Minors really suffer here because they can't get out.
  
• Alcoholic dad breaks family - You can't fix alcoholic dad, don't expect him to get better and focus on your future
  
• Friend/partner addicted to * - You can't be a therapist, if he does seek therapy or does not get better, get out
  
• Loss of a loved one - The only solution: Get over it
  
• Parent left the family - Life goes on, your future matters
  
• You want to look like a supermodel: Tough, forget about it
  
• You want to be superman and fly unassisted: better change your attitude and drop it man!
  

All unmet Expectations should be let go after a reasonable time and without regret. For example, when someone does not respect you and it does not get better, let them go and move on.

 

Ability - maximize yourself

• Be proactive - Think and act ahead.
  
• Work towards the goal
  
• Prioritize
  
• Think win-win
  
• Understand and then be understood
  
• Consider the whole
  
• Be efficient and conserve energy
  
• Be patient and persistent
  
• Move at a reasonable and safe pace
  

From:

[Outcasted]

More proof of my theory.

 

Lets look at some more proof of my depressed theory. Look at this recent post.

This one I like because you can see his survival is very much secure, yet he is still so depressed? Why because his reproduction is threatened. this proves my theory exactly. I'll keep posting stuff like this and adding it to my original post as proof of my theory.

 

 

[NJRon]

I see a person seeking love... a soul mate. Not depressed because he can't find a viable partner with whom to procreate.

 

For myself, the ability to procreate is not high on my list of required characteristics for a "soul mate"...

[nottoogreen]

Sorry, you say reproduction is threated but what caused the poster (34) to fail to have relationships.

[AntiLove_SuperStar]

My genetics that provide me with a high IQ and a healthy body also make me a loser?

 

 

I'd like to date you - it'd be FASCINATING - but agree with you? Never.

[nottoogreen]

Yes.

Whenever you are ready, tell us more please.

 

I have updated post #6 based on your input.

 

Some remaining items of life experiences are covered already. Remaining items are covered by health and foolishness (drugs).

[Managor]

Whenever you are ready, tell us more please.

 

I have updated post #6 based on your input.

 

Some remaining items of life experiences are covered already. Remaining items are covered by health and foolishness (drugs).

 

Heh, wasn't expecting you to update the list just because I disagreed. Ah well.

 

As for more details on me being depressed? I've tried to make an effort to not bring my personal problems onto the forums... (even though that's what the forums are here for) I see psychologists for my depression anyway so I don't think I need to trouble other people for advice.