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What is your dads' and step mothers take on "D", and what he wants out of the broken relationship?

 

Sorry, I'd missed this question earlier.

 

My father and step-mother are stumped. My father genuinely believes that D needs to do a bit of work on himself as well... mainly, figuring out just what he wants out of life, let alone our relationship. For that reason it's a real puzzle just which way he's going to go. His love for me is not in question... I believe that D is now trying to figure out if he EVER wants to settle down with ANYONE...

 

I was the closest he'd ever come to a huge commitment... I think he's just very confused. Hence the talk of vision questing with my dad. He knows he's on the verge of losing me for good, but he's not sure which lifestyle will make him happiest. Bachelor/Committed. Until he sorts that out I don't expect to hear anything at all.

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You've been a great source of support for me, Mona... we'll get through this and be stronger in the end.

 

If I wouldn't have you, I'd think I am crazy....You rock! And your way of dealing with this is exceptional. Poeple strong as you, so strong that they can sound stupid for love and still do what is right, are hard to find. The reward for this might take a long time to come, but for now we have to be happy with doing the right thing

 

Mona

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That is huge! Since you are doing the same, and grow, he must grow too. You wouldn't take him back if he was the same guy who was so mean and also insecure and influenceable. So there is movement necessary on both sides. You are moving, and he is moving. Maybe even in the same direction. Its just depressing that you guys can't do that together. Thats how it should be, being down together and then pulling each other up.

 

Yes, it is nice to hear that he is making an effort to reconcile his own issues right now. I do agree that we both needed to make some changes here. His changes may not necessarily lead him back to me, but I'm happy that he's acknowledging that he too is unhappy with himself, independent of me. It is depressing that we couldn't do this together, but then I think that we couldn't do this if we were. The lessons that are being learned have been brought on by this break up. I had to lose him to realize that I need to heal from my past relationship before I can truly become healthy enough to be anyone's partner again. He had to lose me to fully experience the lifestyle there on his own... to see if it could really make him happy. It seems now that maybe it hasn't given him what he'd hoped, so now he's actively searching his soul to find out what WILL bring him happiness. That may, or may not include me, but at least the work is being done.

 

But if i look at your situation, it WAS a tough one. You suddenly had this completely different life, different priorities, different style. You were different, cause suddenly the things that came easy in the Caribbean, you had to now fight for and things didn't work out like you thought they would. Back in the Caribbean this maybe wouldn't have thrown you around like that, but in the States it did. This busy and success oriented life style makes it hard if things don't work, and you feel even worse then.

 

You get it completely. The island lifestyle was so simple. Every night when the sun would set, no matter what each one of us were doing, we would stop everything and meet on the verandah to watch it together. We spent afternoons just lying with each other in the hammock overlooking the Caribbean Sea... evenings spent looking at the moon and stars... 4x4ing to a completely secluded beach and feeling like we were the only ones in the world.. sailboats and catamarans...a ton of really amazing friends from all over the world... In contrast, we didn't see one sunset in LA... I don't recall seeing the stars very often... our life became surrounded by the pursuit of money and success...2 friends in our lives and both had no loyalties to me or our relationship.. Things had been so simple before LA. The only noises we used to hear at night were the treefrogs and the waves crashing on the shore... once we moved it was constant traffic and sirens (we lived right next to a hospital). I had only lived in the Caribbean for a year before our move to the States, but D was there for 6 so I think he was definitely having some serious culture shock.

 

You moved there together, so even if "D" did never express it clearly and did not act on it like he should have, your situation put a lot of pressure on him. And he couldn't take this pressure, so he opposed it. When you said you would leave, suggested the break, he felt like a failure. He knew very well that he was the one that should help you trough this, and he didn't manage. Maybe he even thinks he tried hard, but he didn't do what you expected obviously.

 

Yes, he was under a ton of pressure. It took him 3 months to convince me to move with him. I kept asking him to move there first and make sure he still wanted me there. I told him that I wanted him to see the new environment and be sure that he would still want to have a partner in his new life. He assured and reassured he wanted me there - that there would be work there for me - that this was a great opportunity for the two of us... I know he felt like he failed me. The thing is, though I was upset about the job falling through, I was mostly upset that he was unable to provide any emotional support to me while I coped with that loss. That is where we had problems. I felt like my disappointment was weighing him down... hence the pull to leave the situation until I could come back in a better mindset.

 

On "D's" side there was a lot of change too. He had been in the Caribbean for long, it must have been hard for him to come back to LA. He was suddenly confronted with a lot of things, different expectations. And in times like these, when we are trying to find ourselves in a new surrounding, we have strange ideas of who we are and who we want to be.

 

Yes, I saw him being pulled in a new direction, but it still wasn't clear to me that he wanted it over us. It was a fear of mine that I was holding him back from seeing what this new life was all about. It was a greater fear that, in time, he would resent having me there as he became more and more curious about the new lifestyle that was surrounding him. Again, there were many reasons why my insecurities were up and why I almost felt like I was doing the best thing for D by leaving.

 

 

And he had you on your side, and STILL he felt like that. That must have made him wonder, whether you are the right person to be on his side. He was astonished that he can feel that way even though you are there. So he tried to remember the last time he was happy without you. And he did, and this lifestyle is exactly what he took on. He didn't consider that its the situation, and not you, that is making him question himself. This realzation will come when you are truly away and he still feels something is missing

 

That is some great insight, Mona. It amazes me how much you really understand the full scope of the situation. Dead on.

 

Once he is back to himself and misses you, then he will realize that with you he could be even better. But he has to be back to himself. There is a german saying: "If the se is rough, don't set your sail." Things have to calm down so he can see where he is and where he wants to go.

 

You two were drowning, and struggling and in your struggle none of you was able to help the other one up, cause none of you had a secure stand on the ground. Eventually you both will come back to that.

 

We both had our own internal battles once we moved. He had his new business venture, new friends, new lifestyle... I had to deal with the job falling through, not having any friends, money, loss of independence, and more or less losing the support of the man I loved. It was just so much to cope with all at once...especially being my second move in a year.

 

This might take ages, and you might be not around then, that is the sad part. And you might not be able to forgive him for the hurt, and he might not either. I think reconciling would be a very hard exercise after the magnitude of the decisions taken and the hurt it caused. But love is big. And the anger might decrease faster than the love.

 

Yes, the work he's doing on himself may take years. There is no way to tell when he'll have that epiphany. The love IS big, but the PRIDE is HUGE. That is what I'm battling now.

 

Right now "D" makes you responsible for everything that happens right now. He chooses to think that you are the source of his pain. His feeling lost, his struggle, everything. He will understand one day that you were only you and why you did what you did. He will understand that you acted like this "in love" and not "without love". And if he realizes that, you can maybe see the same.

 

Yes I'm still holding 100% blame in his eyes, but I think because I've behaved so amicably since the split, he's been forced to soften his view of me. I DID, after all, leave him all of my furniture, not to mention the fact that I have respected his decision to end things and left him alone without laying any guilt or blame on his shoulders at all for not allowing me to return after I've strengthened myself.

 

It makes no obvious sense to us. But I rely on fate. Maybe this is something you are supposed to do apart. Maybe it is a big mistake...Its sad anyway

 

I no longer think it was a mistake. As i've had more time to reflect on the reality of what happened... I think somewhere in his future he may have always wondered "what if" had he not experienced that life to the fullest. I cannot possess him. I would rather him get it out of his system and then come to a realization that he is 100% sure that I make him happiest. I'm not banking on him choosing me over that life, but then again, if he doesn't then am I really missing out?

 

Those are powerful words and you are brave. You must have been a wonderful person to love that strong and now that you are growing even more, you will come out of this even bigger.

 

Thanks Mona... that really means a lot to me.

 

Sometimes i get this feeling of calm and peace already, mostly in the evenings. Whenever I crash again, I have to remind myself a million times that this is where i want to be. But sometimes it just hurts and i want to stomp my feet like a little girl and hate him for what he has destroyed. And i know he feels the same sometimes.

 

I feel like stomping my feet too... sometimes it just seems so unfair... so much love and yet unable to connect again.

 

And if there is love, then it can't be rationalized away, it can't be neglected or twisted. If it is there, then it will find its way to the surface again, I am sure. The waters are rough now, we need to wait it out, risking that we will find we have floated apart.

 

I agree. Love is love and if it's true then it WILL endure.

 

This water and sailing analogy got a little out of control.... But it is early morning and i get all sentimental. Maybe its a sign and i should go to the pool?

 

I get pretty sentimental in the morning as well. Get to that pool and get a tan for me too!

 

Hope you feel good today, don't be scared, we are good and need to rely that good people can see it.

 

Thanks hun. Right back atcha.

 

L.

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It seems now that maybe it hasn't given him what he'd hoped, so now he's actively searching his soul to find out what WILL bring him happiness. That may, or may not include me, but at least the work is being done.

 

Wish my Ex was where "D" is. But i guess his pain has a bigger source (the cheating) and for him its much easier to blame me, cause there is more substance to be angry at

 

You get it completely. The island lifestyle was so simple. Every night when the sun would set, no matter what each one of us were doing, we would stop everything and meet on the verandah to watch it together. We spent afternoons just lying with each other in the hammock overlooking the Caribbean Sea... evenings spent looking at the moon and stars... 4x4ing to a completely secluded beach and feeling like we were the only ones in the world.. sailboats and catamarans...a ton of really amazing friends from all over the world... In contrast, we didn't see one sunset in LA... I don't recall seeing the stars very often... our life became surrounded by the pursuit of money and success...2 friends in our lives and both had no loyalties to me or our relationship.. Things had been so simple before LA. The only noises we used to hear at night were the treefrogs and the waves crashing on the shore... once we moved it was constant traffic and sirens (we lived right next to a hospital). I had only lived in the Caribbean for a year before our move to the States, but D was there for 6 so I think he was definitely having some serious culture shock.

 

Ja, that is a huge change. We were living in New Delhi. Busy city, but different worries. We had all the money we needed and were happy when water came out of the tab. We went shopping together, and had fun buying milk and finding beef (that was one adventure i need a whole thread for it) Electricity was sometimes off and no fans... and yet we had sex 3 times a day... In Germany we were busy doing stuff, stupid stuff. Paperwork, paying bills. We were so nervous all of a sudden and grabby. i was a happy girl in Delhi. We would stand out on the Balkony and watch the city. We would hear music from a distance and relax. Here everything got so busy and hectic.

 

Yes, he was under a ton of pressure. It took him 3 months to convince me to move with him. I kept asking him to move there first and make sure he still wanted me there. I told him that I wanted him to see the new environment and be sure that he would still want to have a partner in his new life. He assured and reassured he wanted me there - that there would be work there for me - that this was a great opportunity for the two of us... I know he felt like he failed me. The thing is, though I was upset about the job falling through, I was mostly upset that he was unable to provide any emotional support to me while I coped with that loss. That is where we had problems. I felt like my disappointment was weighing him down... hence the pull to leave the situation until I could come back in a better mindset.

 

He must have felt like * * * *, if he cares for you.

 

We both had our own internal battles once we moved. He had his new business venture, new friends, new lifestyle... I had to deal with the job falling through, not having any friends, money, loss of independence, and more or less losing the support of the man I loved. It was just so much to cope with all at once...especially being my second move in a year.

 

Ja, no doubt you two were in tough situations. Hardly any relationship would have survived this pressure. Especially when general doubts about oneself come in. What happened was clearly a result of the constellation. Once that becomes clearer, it is easier to solve the issues.

 

Yes, the work he's doing on himself may take years. There is no way to tell when he'll have that epiphany. The love IS big, but the PRIDE is HUGE. That is what I'm battling now.

 

Ja, true, and sad, but I am not losing hope in love i general. And my man was a very special guy. There was a lot of magic in our relationship, so i believe in the magic to go on... hope you too.

 

Yes I'm still holding 100% blame in his eyes, but I think because I've behaved so amicably since the split, he's been forced to soften his view of me. I DID, after all, leave him all of my furniture, not to mention the fact that I have respected his decision to end things and left him alone without laying any guilt or blame on his shoulders at all for not allowing me to return after I've strengthened myself.

 

These are the things he will have to lok at eventually. He can't shove this away for ever.

 

I no longer think it was a mistake. As i've had more time to reflect on the reality of what happened... I think somewhere in his future he may have always wondered "what if" had he not experienced that life to the fullest. I cannot possess him. I would rather him get it out of his system and then come to a realization that he is 100% sure that I make him happiest. I'm not banking on him choosing me over that life, but then again, if he doesn't then am I really missing out?

 

That's a good thought. It got me thinking.

 

No pool today for me, but i got a lot of work done. I called my number one priority potential employer. Its been long since i had the interview there. He said "If we thought we don't want you, we would have rejected you by now" So i said "If you thought you wanted me, you should have sent me a contract by now" He cracked up laughing.... I hope he keeps that in mind when deciding.

 

Mona

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Wish my Ex was where "D" is. But i guess his pain has a bigger source (the cheating) and for him its much easier to blame me, cause there is more substance to be angry at.

 

I hope for your sake that, in time, your ex will forgive you and give you another chance. I've seen relationships mend after much worse indiscretions but, again, he must get past his own fears and follow his heart if he's ever going to have the courage to try things again. Time does heal. You cannot go back to the way things were... but maybe you CAN begin again.

 

 

Ja, that is a huge change. We were living in New Delhi. Busy city, but different worries. We had all the money we needed and were happy when water came out of the tab. We went shopping together, and had fun buying milk and finding beef (that was one adventure i need a whole thread for it) Electricity was sometimes off and no fans... and yet we had sex 3 times a day...

 

Ha! That reminds me so much of the Caribbean... I remember running outside during a rainstorm with buckets and pots trying to catch rainwater because our cistern was dry and we couldn't even flush the toilet. Power was always iffy as well... and our big challenge grocery shopping was milk...most things were shipped onto the island so everything pretty much came in frozen and kind of nasty. I remember I had to wait a month to find nacho chips. lol And last year's "most active hurricane season ever"? I had to check the wave reports almost everyday just to make sure we didn't have to board up and hightail it off the island. The infrastructure was in poor shape... I remember we'd be driving in some areas where there were more potholes than road. One night my ex woke me up to tell me that a guy was trying to break in on our verandah. I was absolutely petrified as I heard the ex run out of the room and chase the guy off the deck with a metal bat. I had only come home by myself from a night out with the girls only 20 minutes before... it had been pouring rain, and I walked in the dark alone. The guy had only been wearing underwear when he was breaking in and most people feel that he thought I was in there alone and may have been coming in to do something to me. I shudder to think what may have happened if he had managed to catch me outside before I'd made it in the house. Everything was a challenge, but we loved overcoming them. Then came LA... so busy... no time for each other.. *sigh* The old life on the island may have had it's difficulties, but I'd give anything to be back there with him now.

 

 

He must have felt like * * * *, if he cares for you.

 

Yes, he felt very badly. I think that's another reason why I was pushed away... he equated the bad feelings he was having with me, instead of the situation that had been created.

 

Ja, no doubt you two were in tough situations. Hardly any relationship would have survived this pressure. Especially when general doubts about oneself come in. What happened was clearly a result of the constellation. Once that becomes clearer, it is easier to solve the issues.

 

As I said before, I feel this needed to happen somehow. I don't think we had an understanding of how much work we should have invested into the relationship to overcome the new life... we just expected it to continue working and when it didn't we gave up. I had really tried to communicate with the ex about how unhappy I was becoming... I asked him to just be there as support... but work was most important... he didn't want to work at us... I became a hindrance to his dreams of success. Maybe this time apart will help us to realize how much we mean to each other... maybe that will be the only way we will have the motivation necessary to do whatever it takes to not lose each other again. Then again... maybe it happened because we just weren't meant to be.

 

Ja, true, and sad, but I am not losing hope in love i general. And my man was a very special guy. There was a lot of magic in our relationship, so i believe in the magic to go on... hope you too.

 

Magic... another intangible like love. That feeling that everything has fallen into place and everything is as it should be for that moment. Have faith in that... have faith that this is how things must be right now. Grow. Learn. If he felt that magic too (which I'm sure he did) he will find it very difficult to just replace again. The shared travels and life experiences we've shared with our exes are difficult to forget about. Even if they meet someone new now they will never have those memories with anyone else. Living together in another country... another culture...everything else is different around you and changing, but what remains constant is being with each other. That is REAL life and REAL love and maybe, just maybe, that will be what brings them back.

 

These are the things he will have to look at eventually. He can't shove this away for ever.

 

Forever, no. For an incredibly LONNNNG period of time... yes.

 

No pool today for me, but i got a lot of work done. I called my number one priority potential employer. Its been long since i had the interview there. He said "If we thought we don't want you, we would have rejected you by now" So i said "If you thought you wanted me, you should have sent me a contract by now" He cracked up laughing.... I hope he keeps that in mind when deciding.

 

Congratulations on the possibility of this new career path. Is it in Germany?

 

You're doing great!

 

L.

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I hope for your sake that, in time, your ex will forgive you and give you another chance. I've seen relationships mend after much worse indiscretions but, again, he must get past his own fears and follow his heart if he's ever going to have the courage to try things again. Time does heal. You cannot go back to the way things were... but maybe you CAN begin again.

 

Ja, maybe. I am crushed today

 

Ha! That reminds me so much of the Caribbean... I remember running outside during a rainstorm with buckets and pots trying to catch rainwater because our cistern was dry and we couldn't even flush the toilet. Power was always iffy as well... and our big challenge grocery shopping was milk...most things were shipped onto the island so everything pretty much came in frozen and kind of nasty. I remember I had to wait a month to find nacho chips. lol And last year's "most active hurricane season ever"? I had to check the wave reports almost everyday just to make sure we didn't have to board up and hightail it off the island. The infrastructure was in poor shape... I remember we'd be driving in some areas where there were more potholes than road. One night my ex woke me up to tell me that a guy was trying to break in on our verandah. I was absolutely petrified as I heard the ex run out of the room and chase the guy off the deck with a metal bat. I had only come home by myself from a night out with the girls only 20 minutes before... it had been pouring rain, and I walked in the dark alone. The guy had only been wearing underwear when he was breaking in and most people feel that he thought I was in there alone and may have been coming in to do something to me. I shudder to think what may have happened if he had managed to catch me outside before I'd made it in the house. Everything was a challenge, but we loved overcoming them. Then came LA... so busy... no time for each other.. *sigh* The old life on the island may have had it's difficulties, but I'd give anything to be back there with him now.

 

Thats the trap. You have stood together in such times, and then you start believeing you could overcome everything that comes your way... and then you are shocked when you can't.

 

Yes, he felt very badly. I think that's another reason why I was pushed away... he equated the bad feelings he was having with me, instead of the situation that had been created.

 

I wish he would have been ready for you.

 

As I said before, I feel this needed to happen somehow. I don't think we had an understanding of how much work we should have invested into the relationship to overcome the new life... we just expected it to continue working and when it didn't we gave up. I had really tried to communicate with the ex about how unhappy I was becoming... I asked him to just be there as support... but work was most important... he didn't want to work at us... I became a hindrance to his dreams of success. Maybe this time apart will help us to realize how much we mean to each other... maybe that will be the only way we will have the motivation necessary to do whatever it takes to not lose each other again. Then again... maybe it happened because we just weren't meant to be.

 

For me so far, after something good ended, something even better started. That has been happening all my life. People call me lucky. There are two conclusions one could draw now: A.) i deserved a fall B.) something even better will happen. And i believe in that. I always fall on my feet somehow. Same for you I hope

 

Magic... another intangible like love. That feeling that everything has fallen into place and everything is as it should be for that moment. Have faith in that... have faith that this is how things must be right now. Grow. Learn. If he felt that magic too (which I'm sure he did) he will find it very difficult to just replace again. The shared travels and life experiences we've shared with our exes are difficult to forget about. Even if they meet someone new now they will never have those memories with anyone else. Living together in another country... another culture...everything else is different around you and changing, but what remains constant is being with each other. That is REAL life and REAL love and maybe, just maybe, that will be what brings them back.

 

I am a believer. But I feel stupid for it.

 

Forever, no. For an incredibly LONNNNG period of time... yes.

 

If he is the smart man you love, then he will e smart enough to do the right thing eventually. Trust in his intellect and his gut feeling. Right now things are blurry. If he is the man worth mourning, then he will get it. Someday soon. I hope for you that he is what you think he is. If so, he can only make one decision in the long run: You. If not, you will find someone who deserves to be loved as big as you are capable of. (I myslef find that explanation too easy when people tell me. I know. And it is mor ecomplicated than that, in a way, ut at the same time it might be really that easy... I don't know. I already hate all those people who tell me life goes on, I am not even sure if i want it to be that easy)

 

Congratulations on the possibility of this new career path. Is it in Germany?

 

It is Frankfurt Germany.... They pay so much i wouldn't know what to do with all that cash. LOL, maybe pay back my debt?

 

You're doing great!

 

Not today, but soon again, I am sure

 

Mona

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Ja, maybe. I am crushed today

 

I'm sorry to hear you're having a rough day... must be something in the air - today has been tough for me too.

 

For me so far, after something good ended, something even better started. That has been happening all my life. People call me lucky. There are two conclusions one could draw now: A.) i deserved a fall B.) something even better will happen. And i believe in that. I always fall on my feet somehow. Same for you I hope.

 

Thanks, unfortunately I haven't had that same luck in the past. That being said I AM trying to land on my feet as well...

 

I am a believer. But I feel stupid for it.

 

Me too... I feel silly for believing that we may ever have a chance to be together again.

 

 

If he is the smart man you love, then he will e smart enough to do the right thing eventually. Trust in his intellect and his gut feeling. Right now things are blurry. If he is the man worth mourning, then he will get it. Someday soon. I hope for you that he is what you think he is. If so, he can only make one decision in the long run: You. If not, you will find someone who deserves to be loved as big as you are capable of.

 

Perhaps. I know he is a smart man, but he has spent most of his life running away from everything (hence the moving around and lack of previous serious relationships). I feel he will continue to run from this one until he faces the reason why he runs from everything, not just me. I know that sounds funny because I was the one who initiated leaving... but I really believe in my heart that he was relieved to have someone run away from him instead of the other way around. I think I saved him the trouble. Clearly the fact that he is unwilling to give us a shot once I've attempted to heal myself is an indication that if I hadn't left, sooner or later, he may have ended things anyway.

 

It is Frankfurt Germany.... They pay so much i wouldn't know what to do with all that cash. LOL, maybe pay back my debt?

 

Sounds great. I guess no cappuccinos with me in Spain then?

 

Not today, but soon again, I am sure/

 

I'm sorry hun, I feel the same way too.

 

L.

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So today my father asked me if the ex was an alcoholic..to which I responded no. I asked him why he'd asked this and he told me that lately when he and my ex are talking the ex mentions that he is hungover.

 

It hurts me to hear that he is out drinking so much.. He used to do this before we had met.. I guess it's his way of getting it to me that he is having a blast in my absense.

 

He has also continued to tell my father that he is running on a daily basis. Again, something that he never had an interest in before.

 

I guess he is trying to let me know that he is doing great without me... hurts so much to feel that I'm sitting here grieving and he's out having the time of his life.

 

I have not contacted him or shown online on MSN in a week and a half. He hasn't made any effort to contact me. This is SO difficult. I am hurting so much and next weekend he will be here for a few weeks. I am so terrified that he will not contact me...or worse, that he WILL contact me and just reitterate that things are over and he's happier without me.

 

Sounds crazy to say, but my doctor has stepped up my counselling to twice a week in anticipation of D's visit. They are really trying to help me expedite my healing process... but today, I feel so weak. I feel like I'm slipping out of his mind. That I never meant anything to him. That he will numb his pain by drinking until he's forgotten about me completely.

 

God this hurts. I want to curl up in a ball and stop the world until this pain has gone away.

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So today my father asked me if the ex was an alcoholic..to which I responded no. I asked him why he'd asked this and he told me that lately when he and my ex are talking the ex mentions that he is hungover.

 

Isn't his lifestyle just great... Great way of showing you how ahead of the situation he really is. I am impressed!

 

It hurts me to hear that he is out drinking so much.. He used to do this before we had met.. I guess it's his way of getting it to me that he is having a blast in my absense.

 

He didn't like that life anymore, right? He was happy to have you, and he wouldn't have traded you for that life. He said that for a reason. Maybe he WANTED to believe it and didn't, then good riddance, but maye he did mean that, and then its just sad for him that he doesn't remember, or can't go back to it.

 

He has also continued to tell my father that he is running on a daily basis. Again, something that he never had an interest in before.

 

Mine is suddenly playing soccer... and not very well. They try things now to fill the gap. I don't think running can replace waking up next to you. And it can also not replace feeling loved. It's just a try to do something different, and running is better than drinking I guess.

 

I guess he is trying to let me know that he is doing great without me... hurts so much to feel that I'm sitting here grieving and he's out having the time of his life.

 

He certainly does it different than you. He maybe just shoves the whole topic aside and tries to ignore it for now. Its a stratgy. And since you are playing the other part, he can do that without any reservations. Have yo ever thought about the possibilty of switched roles? I thought about it. I could do what my Ex is doing right now if he would e doing what i am doing right now. If i knew he was home grieving, i could shove everything aside and go wild for some time... I think i wouldn't be so cruel doing that, and i would not risk losing him probably, but a milder version of what he is doing i would be capable of.

 

I have not contacted him or shown online on MSN in a week and a half. He hasn't made any effort to contact me. This is SO difficult. I am hurting so much and next weekend he will be here for a few weeks. I am so terrified that he will not contact me...or worse, that he WILL contact me and just reitterate that things are over and he's happier without me.

 

Same here, same fear. If he would e super cool about the breakup, he could be nicer. What he is doing is unnatural. Being with someone for such a long time, and suddenly you don't talk anymore, especially since he knows you are on the floor. So if he would be ok with the situation and have no big feelings (be it anger or love, or anger at the love, or whatever) he could just be normal and polite. he isn't though. He needs to e a perfect jerk towards you. So that makes me believe that there is a lot going on inside of this guy

 

Sounds crazy to say, but my doctor has stepped up my counselling to twice a week in anticipation of D's visit. They are really trying to help me expedite my healing process... but today, I feel so weak. I feel like I'm slipping out of his mind. That I never meant anything to him. That he will numb his pain by drinking until he's forgotten about me completely.

 

He is trying to get you out of his system, ja, cause he is overwhelmed and going crazy. And he hates that you have the power to make him feel bad. That makes him even more angry and its all your fault. He hates that feeling, and he is tring to get rid of it.... but he can't. You are inside of him. Rock solid. Nothing that can e removed easily. And he won't be able to remove you without losing part of him. And he needs to decide how precious that part of him really is.

 

 

God this hurts. I want to curl up in a ball and stop the world until this pain has gone away.

 

I know the feeling. i actually do curl up then behind the open fireplace in the living room. Nobody can see me there easily, and it like i disappeared. And i feel i am not there.....

 

Tomorrow will be better, cause it can't get worse

 

Mona

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Isn't his lifestyle just great... Great way of showing you how ahead of the situation he really is. I am impressed!

 

You made me laugh with this one, Mona... thank you.

 

He didn't like that life anymore, right? He was happy to have you, and he wouldn't have traded you for that life. He said that for a reason. Maybe he WANTED to believe it and didn't, then good riddance, but maybe he did mean that, and then its just sad for him that he doesn't remember, or can't go back to it.

 

Right. He was done with that life when we were together. We preferred to spend our time doing things together... and if he DID want to go out, he always wanted me with him.

 

Mine is suddenly playing soccer... and not very well. They try things now to fill the gap. I don't think running can replace waking up next to you. And it can also not replace feeling loved. It's just a try to do something different, and running is better than drinking I guess.

 

It's almost as if they can't sit still long enough to think about things. When they stop moving... that's when it hits them. Even though they are the ones making this decision to be apart from us, I think they are still struggling with what their heads and their hearts are telling them.

 

He certainly does it different than you. He maybe just shoves the whole topic aside and tries to ignore it for now. Its a stratgy. And since you are playing the other part, he can do that without any reservations. Have yo ever thought about the possibilty of switched roles? I thought about it. I could do what my Ex is doing right now if he would e doing what i am doing right now. If i knew he was home grieving, i could shove everything aside and go wild for some time... I think i wouldn't be so cruel doing that, and i would not risk losing him probably, but a milder version of what he is doing i would be capable of.

 

I have thought about doing the same thing. That being said I know myself pretty well. I would get out and probably have a great time in the beginning... eventually though I believe I would again feel the weight of the loss. Going out like that was not in either D's or I's nature anymore when we were together... so going out for me would just remind me WHY I'm going out (ie: that we aren't together anymore.) Maybe in time I'll be able to get out there again... for right now I think I'd just be going through the motions.

 

Same here, same fear. If he would e super cool about the breakup, he could be nicer. What he is doing is unnatural. Being with someone for such a long time, and suddenly you don't talk anymore, especially since he knows you are on the floor. So if he would be ok with the situation and have no big feelings (be it anger or love, or anger at the love, or whatever) he could just be normal and polite. he isn't though. He needs to e a perfect jerk towards you. So that makes me believe that there is a lot going on inside of this guy.

 

I hope that is true. I know that the true opposite of love isn't hate - it's indifference. I guess I should take solace in the fact that if he WERE, in fact, indifferent, he would have no problem being nicer to me right now.

 

He is trying to get you out of his system, ja, cause he is overwhelmed and going crazy. And he hates that you have the power to make him feel bad. That makes him even more angry and its all your fault. He hates that feeling, and he is tring to get rid of it.... but he can't. You are inside of him. Rock solid. Nothing that can e removed easily. And he won't be able to remove you without losing part of him. And he needs to decide how precious that part of him really is.

 

That makes sense to me, Mona. It's especially foreign for him to feel this way at the hands of a relationship because he'd been so unwilling for years to involve himself with anyone at the level we were at. I don't think he knows how to deal with this. He has very little experience with the depth of the emotions he may be experiencing now that we are apart.

 

I know the feeling. i actually do curl up then behind the open fireplace in the living room. Nobody can see me there easily, and it like i disappeared. And i feel i am not there.....

 

Again, Mona, I'm sorry that we are together in this pain, but happy that we have each other to lean on right now.

 

Tomorrow will be better, cause it can't get worse.

 

I hope so. I keep thinking - every tear I cry is one more step towards healing. Today I must have healed ALOT. Remember though, there is a finite number of tears that we will shed over this relationship... this pain will not go on forever.

 

L.

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So today I found out that the ex has asked my father if he knows of anyone that can do some web banners for the ex's biz.

 

Those of you that have followed my thread know that:

 

1- I am a graphic designer (ie: I make web banners, among many other things...)

 

and 2- that one of the reasons the relationship had started to struggle was because the ex's biz partner had not made good on the amount of graphic work that had been promised to me...

 

The ex told my father that he's having a very difficult time finding a graphic designer... never mind the fact that he once had a LIVE-IN designer that he could call upon at any hour of the day (and usually did)..

 

Is this supposed to be a jab in my back? I really don't know what to make of this because clearly the ex knew that this would get back to me...

 

Any advice as always would be greatly appreciated...

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Dunno what he means, what he said implies hand in a CV if you can do and want a job.

 

Working together and being in a relationship complicates work and the relationship. You would not want work with him in his buddies biz again.

 

What does your dad think ?

 

I don't have advise for you beyond what I said in the other thread.

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I start thinking that his contact to your dad is somehow weird. I mean it is nice that he doesn't detach from you completely, stays in contact. That is somehow hope and it makes everything look so much more civil. And it is also nice for him that your Dad can give him advice and lend him his ear and make him feel better in those rough times. But on the other hand... he knows that every word that is said reaches you somehow. And he is sticking things to you. What does he want to tell you with that? Possibilities:

 

He wants to tell you that there is work now, and you could have had it when you would have stuck it out. He seems to reduce your problems to the lack of work. He wants to show your dad that there is work now and you shouldn't have been histerical and left. He wants to tell you that even though he needs your input, he will look for someone else to do the job. He wants to tell your dad that you are mean and left him allthough he needs your graphic design services. Or he is just blabing away.

 

He knows your dad knows a good graphic designer.... This borders on the land of stupidity.

 

How does your dad feel about chitchatting with the guy that dumped his daughter, made her so miserable and has no heart to take her back and work on things with her? How does you father feel about all this? He could discuss all those issues with the woman he loves. Who understands him and is willing to listen. Who would love to be on his side for this. Why does he do that with your father? Any ideas? Is it a way for him to feel close to you? does it comfort him, or reduce his feeling of guilt? What is your guess? How can your father even give good advice, he is on your side after all....I don't get it.

 

Do they ever discuss the relationship with each other? I mean it is a crucial part of his life right now, the whole quest for himself is conected to that, I can't imagine they leave that out, do they? And what is said then?

 

Its somehow unnatural what they do. What are your dad's feelings aout this? doesn't he somehow feel in between? Tell me more, this is strange.

 

mona

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I start thinking that his contact to your dad is somehow weird. I mean it is nice that he doesn't detach from you completely, stays in contact. That is somehow hope and it makes everything look so much more civil. And it is also nice for him that your Dad can give him advice and lend him his ear and make him feel better in those rough times. But on the other hand... he knows that every word that is said reaches you somehow. And he is sticking things to you. What does he want to tell you with that?

 

It is very strange that he is seeking out contact with my father on such a regular basis. I am trying not to find hope in that, but at the same time, they were not that close when we were together, so I'm very confused by the level of communication they are having now.

 

Possibilities:

 

He wants to tell you that there is work now, and you could have had it when you would have stuck it out. He seems to reduce your problems to the lack of work. He wants to show your dad that there is work now and you shouldn't have been histerical and left. He wants to tell you that even though he needs your input, he will look for someone else to do the job. He wants to tell your dad that you are mean and left him allthough he needs your graphic design services. Or he is just blabing away.

 

I somehow feel that he may be trying to open a door for me to have a reason to contact him... that I might hear this and send an email offering my services. He is in contact with many other people in his line of work that know graphic designers...he also knows that relaying this to my father lets me know that he misses me, if only at a superficial level of having me to work with. As I said, he also knew that there was a risk that saying this would allow me to contact him and reestablish communication in a way that wouldn't force me to swallow my pride and admit that I wanted to talk to him. (ie: I ONLY contacted him because of work..) If he doesn't want to talk to me, then why give me ANY excuse to get in touch? I feel that he must believe that that is what I need to speak with him again... a reason. That maybe I'm not contacting him because I can't... not because I don't want to. Now that I'm not taking up this opportunity, he knows that I am not interested in grasping at just ANY reason to talk with him. That I am choosing not to talk with him because he has hurt me and I'm really trying to move on.

 

He knows your dad knows a good graphic designer.... This borders on the land of stupidity.

 

Yup. Now that he knows the furniture will not be an excuse for me to contact him (because my family is dealing with it) he may be looking for another reason for us to establish contact. This is really the only one he has left other than dropping the pride act and contacting me without a reason - except to admit that he WANTS to talk to me... He is still unwilling to do this... still trying to put the ball in my court, even though it's CLEARLY still in his.

 

How does your dad feel about chitchatting with the guy that dumped his daughter, made her so miserable and has no heart to take her back and work on things with her? How does you father feel about all this? He could discuss all those issues with the woman he loves. Who understands him and is willing to listen. Who would love to be on his side for this. Why does he do that with your father? Any ideas? Is it a way for him to feel close to you? does it comfort him, or reduce his feeling of guilt? What is your guess? How can your father even give good advice, he is on your side after all....I don't get it.

 

My father has kept communication with D, even though he knows how much he's hurt me, because he feels that some communication (even through my family) is better than us cutting ties completely. The fact that D is reaching out this way, well, my father doesn't want to begrudge him the one avenue he seems to be trying to take to communicate indirectly with me. I think it DOES give him comfort to speak with someone who is so close to me. I, on the other hand, would feel very funny having daily contact with D's father. I would feel like that was sending a strong message to D that I was trying to speak with him somehow. That's just me, though. I don't know just how he expects me to take this. It could be a way of reducing his guilt, but then I think the easiest way for him to run from guilt would be to cut all ties completely and stop having daily reminders of me by speaking with my father. He is also surrounded by a home that I created right now. My father isn't giving advice on our situation. He is giving D advice on life in general. How to go about doing the vision quest...what to expect... how to focus on understanding himself and his motivations/fears while he goes on that journey. Part of me thinks that D is only speaking with my father because he is genuinely interested in pursuing this spiritual side and has nobody else to speak with about it... the other part of me says, if he's really trying to end things with me and move on.. can't all of this talk wait a few months until there is NO chance that I will get the wrong idea by him seeking contact with my family? Again, I am very confused.

 

Do they ever discuss the relationship with each other? I mean it is a crucial part of his life right now, the whole quest for himself is conected to that, I can't imagine they leave that out, do they? And what is said then?

 

They do not discuss the relationship. D asked about me on Monday, wanted to know if I was working here yet. And then, the graphic designer comment came on Tuesday. Up until this week D did not mention me (directly or indirectly) at all. My father and D did speak about the relationship immediately after we'd broken up... I was on my way from LA to San Fran and they were speaking on MSN. My father tried to arrange a pickup for my things (furniture etc.) for a month from that time and D said "Hold off on that for now.." They again discussed the relationship a few days after that where D told my dad that he had loved me very much and still did, but that he felt he had given 150% and lines had been crossed... that was over 6 weeks ago now. I'm not sure if he's had any changes of heart since then... he's asking about me now... good or bad, maybe things are starting to come to a head.

 

Its somehow unnatural what they do. What are your dad's feelings aout this? doesn't he somehow feel in between? Tell me more, this is strange.

 

My father doesn't feel strange about it. He feels that D is, for whatever reason, unwilling to contact me directly. He feels that we may both be in a standoff situation, however, he understands why I'm no longer putting forth the effort to contact D and leaving it up to him now. He thinks D is very scattered with what he wants out of life. I believe that too... it's like he wants to move on and let me go, but he's still unwilling to sever the connection completely with me.

 

I am not contacting him... I am not taking him up on the semi-offer of work. I need him to contact me for the right reasons... not because he has an "excuse" to. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing... this may be the last attempt D will make to open a door to me. I guess I'm taking a big risk, but I keep thinking that he's just got to do better than that if he wants me in his life (at any capacity).

 

L.

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Dunno what he means, what he said implies hand in a CV if you can do and want a job.

 

Yes, I feel he is definitely implying that. I feel like if he REALLY needs my help, though... he should have the guts to contact me directly...not continue to try to "bait" me into contacting him... again, I feel this is all about who's winning and losing and I'm not up for that. I do not wish to contact him because I am protecting myself from being hurt again... as he knows that I am not a vindictive person, he really has no reason not to contact me, except for the fact that he doesn't wish to look like he's bowing down to my NC.

 

Working together and being in a relationship complicates work and the relationship. You would not want work with him in his buddies biz again.

 

What does your dad think ?

 

No, I do not want to work with them again. He knew this when I left, so I must again question why he is using this as a window of opportunity for us to have contact when it was such a sore spot for us in the relationship.. That's why I feel that MAYBE he is really willing to use any excuse possible for us to reinitiate contact. This indirect offer of work may be a last resort tactic to get me to speak to him. I don't need work so badly that I'm willing to speak to him again on those terms.

 

My father feels that it was a somewhat weak attempt to get me to initiate contact with him again. Who knows?

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Her dad may be in on it, I suggested this long time ago.

 

Unfortunately, no. My father has inclinations that D may be just be dangling me a bit until he makes up his mind what he really wants (now that some time has passed and he may be beginning to second guess what's happened)... He has ideas, but no real knowledge of what D is doing right now. He just feels that D's mind may be set on following through on his initial decision (the breakup) but that, despite that, he is unwilling to show that he is done with us through his actions... (cutting ties with everyone in my family, taking down my decorations in the apartment... getting rid of my things... etc.)

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Hi everyone,

From the number of views I see on this thread I know there are a few "lurkers" out there...

 

Backinlife and nottoogreen have offered up some great advice to me on this most recent contact with my father, for which I am very grateful... in fact, I don't know what I would have done without their advice over the past month or so.

 

That being said, I'm really in need of as many opinions as I can get...Do any lurkers have any thoughts on the content of the contact my ex is having with my father?

 

My thoughts or gut on the issue are clearly clouded by emotion, so I could really benefit from as many views on this as possible...

 

Advice is always appreciated, especially since I'm finding it difficult to find threads on anyone else who's ex is having such frequent contact with their family immediately after the break up.

 

Again, they were NOT close when we were dating... so I find it hard to believe that this is just a matter of keeping up relations... the relations are now being created for the first time...

 

Again, this forum's words are a godsend to me right now... thoughts?

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Hey all....

 

Sorry, its not directly related to your post, but indirectly. I just heard a great success story and it filled me with hope.

 

I had a close friend in high school, she was 17 back then. She got with this guy, and they seemed made for each other. They have been together for 3 years. The university got tough for her, she met a lot of new people and he somehow went into another direction. Very bad breakup, many lines were crossed. He cried and begged, NCed her, did the friendship thing for a while... Everybody was shocked that they parted.

 

I lost contact to her then, but today i found out that after a year she realized that he was the one, she realized that it had been bad timing back then. They are back together for 8 years now! I was so happy to hear that! Hope it cheers you up. A year sounds like an eternity now, but well....

 

Mona

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It is very strange that he is seeking out contact with my father on such a regular basis. I am trying not to find hope in that, but at the same time, they were not that close when we were together, so I'm very confused by the level of communication they are having now.

 

I stick to it, its weird.

 

I somehow feel that he may be trying to open a door for me to have a reason to contact him... that I might hear this and send an email offering my services. He is in contact with many other people in his line of work that know graphic designers...he also knows that relaying this to my father lets me know that he misses me, if only at a superficial level of having me to work with. As I said, he also knew that there was a risk that saying this would allow me to contact him and reestablish communication in a way that wouldn't force me to swallow my pride and admit that I wanted to talk to him. (ie: I ONLY contacted him because of work..) If he doesn't want to talk to me, then why give me ANY excuse to get in touch? I feel that he must believe that that is what I need to speak with him again... a reason. That maybe I'm not contacting him because I can't... not because I don't want to. Now that I'm not taking up this opportunity, he knows that I am not interested in grasping at just ANY reason to talk with him. That I am choosing not to talk with him because he has hurt me and I'm really trying to move on.

 

You would have to be a complete moron to work for this strange biz partner again, even if its just indirectly. And if anything, "D" should have understood that part of the story at least. So there must be something else behind this in my opinion. Maybe he is just trying to check on you somehow. Or maybe he tries to get you to initiate contact. It is very strong of you not to react to that. The only reason to talk to "D" would be his invitation to do so, with a comittment to try and work things out. Anything else is just too little, as you say. I think you are incredibly strong. It is a risk, but the alternative is also risky. If you want to get back together, you need to be eye to eye with him, and that is not the case yet. Reconciling would involve a lot more than the realization he needs you as a designer. God, sometimes i get angry at the stupidity we have to put up with... I know its not that easy, but sometimes i wish it were.

 

Yup. Now that he knows the furniture will not be an excuse for me to contact him (because my family is dealing with it) he may be looking for another reason for us to establish contact. This is really the only one he has left other than dropping the pride act and contacting me without a reason - except to admit that he WANTS to talk to me... He is still unwilling to do this... still trying to put the ball in my court, even though it's CLEARLY still in his.

 

Ja, that must freak him out.

 

My father has kept communication with D, even though he knows how much he's hurt me, because he feels that some communication (even through my family) is better than us cutting ties completely. The fact that D is reaching out this way, well, my father doesn't want to begrudge him the one avenue he seems to be trying to take to communicate indirectly with me. I think it DOES give him comfort to speak with someone who is so close to me. I, on the other hand, would feel very funny having daily contact with D's father. I would feel like that was sending a strong message to D that I was trying to speak with him somehow. That's just me, though. I don't know just how he expects me to take this. It could be a way of reducing his guilt, but then I think the easiest way for him to run from guilt would be to cut all ties completely and stop having daily reminders of me by speaking with my father. He is also surrounded by a home that I created right now. My father isn't giving advice on our situation. He is giving D advice on life in general. How to go about doing the vision quest...what to expect... how to focus on understanding himself and his motivations/fears while he goes on that journey. Part of me thinks that D is only speaking with my father because he is genuinely interested in pursuing this spiritual side and has nobody else to speak with about it... the other part of me says, if he's really trying to end things with me and move on.. can't all of this talk wait a few months until there is NO chance that I will get the wrong idea by him seeking contact with my family? Again, I am very confused.

 

It is confusing!

 

They do not discuss the relationship. D asked about me on Monday, wanted to know if I was working here yet. And then, the graphic designer comment came on Tuesday. Up until this week D did not mention me (directly or indirectly) at all. My father and D did speak about the relationship immediately after we'd broken up... I was on my way from LA to San Fran and they were speaking on MSN. My father tried to arrange a pickup for my things (furniture etc.) for a month from that time and D said "Hold off on that for now.." They again discussed the relationship a few days after that where D told my dad that he had loved me very much and still did, but that he felt he had given 150% and lines had been crossed ... that was over 6 weeks ago now. I'm not sure if he's had any changes of heart since then... he's asking about me now... good or bad, maybe things are starting to come to a head.

 

It feels like he tries to explane his decision to your father, it sounds like guilt to me. And by explaning it to people, he tries to rationalize it to himself.... Does he hear himself talking? "I loved her very much and still do, I have given 150 % and lines have been crossed..." Bla bla, Everything he needs to know is there... It was not a rational decision, why does he need to rationlize it? Is he trying to make it sound nice after he decided against you, or is he himself shaky about the decision and now needs to legitimize it to himself?

 

I am not contacting him... I am not taking him up on the semi-offer of work. I need him to contact me for the right reasons... not because he has an "excuse" to. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing... this may be the last attempt D will make to open a door to me. I guess I'm taking a big risk, but I keep thinking that he's just got to do better than that if he wants me in his life (at any capacity).

 

If he really is serious about you, and we can only hope that someday he will be, he will make an effort to get what he wants. He doesn't seem like the guy who wouldn't stand up for his wishes, so hopefully he will find that you is what he wants (maybe on his vision quest, somewhere at a windy road with lots of potholes he will understand that riding a bike on a straight, even road is not fun, its all about the serpentines and bumps, and then maybe he will think "wait a second, that's just like LIFE"...)

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Well from my prospective, 'D' is keeping ties to the relationship, I mean if he would want nothing to do with you why would he contact your father? Hes also very confused and maybe see's your dad as someone who has been through alot and has become wise over his years. (is his father alive?) I had a good relationship with my ex's family bf's with her brother before we dated, and I'm joining the RCMP just like her father, at first I felt maybe I'd stay in contact with the father as he was helping me out with the application but I did not think it was right, I may call him down the road and ask for a reference but thats about it. I cant think of any reason else why "D" would talk to your father...its very unsual..

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You would have to be a complete moron to work for this strange biz partner again, even if its just indirectly. And if anything, "D" should have understood that part of the story at least. So there must be something else behind this in my opinion. Maybe he is just trying to check on you somehow. Or maybe he tries to get you to initiate contact. It is very strong of you not to react to that.

 

Funny as this sounds, I went to see a psychic a couple of weeks ago. She told me my old job would be coming back to me but not to take it because the next one I find will come with a move far away and steady work and I'll be very happy. So no, I'm not taking him up on this offer. I do not want any ties to that biz anymore - maybe someday I will freelance on the side of another job for extra cash, but right now I'm not using work to keep in touch with D.

 

The only reason to talk to "D" would be his invitation to do so, with a comittment to try and work things out. Anything else is just too little, as you say. I think you are incredibly strong. It is a risk, but the alternative is also risky. If you want to get back together, you need to be eye to eye with him, and that is not the case yet. Reconciling would involve a lot more than the realization he needs you as a designer. God, sometimes i get angry at the stupidity we have to put up with... I know its not that easy, but sometimes i wish it were.

 

Yes, and the eye to eye part MAY come in a week or so when he's home. I'm not sure if he's going to contact me... sometimes I think that the recent frequency of chats with my father and the most recent attempt to get me to contact him may be a way of "feeling me out" before he comes home. I think he wants us to be in communication before he gets here... if that were the case, we'd definitely be seeing one another when he's here - but I really don't know if I want to see him anymore. I don't want him to use it as just another opportunity to show me how happy he is without me... that he's better since the break up... that he doesn't care anymore.

 

 

It feels like he tries to explane his decision to your father, it sounds like guilt to me. And by explaning it to people, he tries to rationalize it to himself.... Does he hear himself talking? "I loved her very much and still do, I have given 150 % and lines have been crossed..." Bla bla, Everything he needs to know is there... It was not a rational decision, why does he need to rationlize it? Is he trying to make it sound nice after he decided against you, or is he himself shaky about the decision and now needs to legitimize it to himself?

 

Perhaps... I've heard this same explanation has been given to a couple of our friends... he refuses to face the issue that I moved to another country on his word that the work would be steady and as a result of the discrepancy, I STILL suffer financially to this day.. Yes, I wanted to leave, but the last day I tried to talk to him about it and he forced me out - I remember him coldly asking me if I "needed any gas money" for my drive to San Fran. For D, career is number one. I can't even imagine how he would have reacted had I broken the same promises regarding work for him. I can absolutely guarantee he would have left me and NEVER would have wanted to reconcile. That is the double standard here. It was okay for me to spend my savings on moving all of my furniture down to LA (that he STILL USES NOW)... and THEN have no work to replenish my account... again, it wasn't about money for me (even though it sounds that way).. it was the fact that he never validated that I had a right to be sad that the work had fallen through... I remember the day that I felt the worst about the situation... I put a $20 bill in my nephew's bday card to be mailed home to Canada and D said "Can you really afford to be putting that in there?" Meanwhile, D was spending money on expensive dinners with his biz partner and going out more often... yes it's HIS money, but the $20 was mine and I felt so low that he was now in a position to make me feel guilty for how I spent my own money. I never splurged on anything for myself in LA, (except for groceries and splitting bills when we went out to eat together)... I have always been pretty thrifty with my funds and D knew this. So guilting me for the money in my nephew's card? It made me feel pretty small. Especially since my entire life I've always had my own place, car, looked after ALL of my own bills, went dutch every meal with the ex... I didn't deserve to be treated like someone who was being irresponsible or taking advantage.... I have never been that girl, and that's why it hurt.

 

If he really is serious about you, and we can only hope that someday he will be, he will make an effort to get what he wants. He doesn't seem like the guy who wouldn't stand up for his wishes, so hopefully he will find that you is what he wants (maybe on his vision quest, somewhere at a windy road with lots of potholes he will understand that riding a bike on a straight, even road is not fun, its all about the serpentines and bumps, and then maybe he will think "wait a second, that's just like LIFE"...)

 

Perhaps... part of me feels like he's only wanting this vision quest so that he can say that he did one, but will not actually do the work that is needed to face himself and how he has impacted others in his life (another major aspect of the process is dealing with the hurts that you've caused others and taking responsibility)... I hope I'm wrong about this. I hope he does take it seriously because it can really be life altering when done correctly.

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Well from my prospective, 'D' is keeping ties to the relationship, I mean if he would want nothing to do with you why would he contact your father? Hes also very confused and maybe see's your dad as someone who has been through alot and has become wise over his years. (is his father alive?)I cant think of any reason else why "D" would talk to your father...its very unsual..

 

That's how I feel. My father is someone who is quite wise, but again, why seek him out now when the relationship is still raw? He would be available to D later once the dust has settled from the demise of the relationship. Yes, his own father is still alive...

 

Thanks for the thoughts, Mikeca.

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