Affair dragging on, no sexual contact- he's still married- H

[Heatrae]

Thanks. I needed a little pick me up. I appreciate that AVMAN. You are so right. I mean, I am living like a woman who's moving on, but my heart struggles.

 

Thanks

[avman]

Stay strong girl! You are an intelligent woman. Your brain is going to have to overrule your heart on this one.

 

I'm with you. You know that

 

avman

[RosiePosie]

I have to agree with avman...even if he ever did leave his wife, do you really think you are part of the very small percentage of people that would get married after an affair and then not get divorced later on???...

 

How could you ever trust a man who cheats on his wife???...the answer is that you couldn't and it would poison your relationship and would eventually kill it...

 

All you are doing by hanging on is to cause the pain in your life to last longer than it needs to...I feel badly for you...because I have the sense that you are a good person and you are not treating yourself very well...

[crookster_man]

gee all this sounds familure... Heatrae, do you understand yet?

[Heatrae]

Yes, I understand. But that doesn't make the intense feelings in my hert and body dissapate. They just stay there.

 

I am trying. Today is very hard for me. First, I am sick. Second, the last time we spoke was very nice and then I told him NO about touching me and he got a bit stern and overexaggerated saying, "I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN!Ever...I can assure you it willnever happen again and I don't faulter."

 

He was trying to hurt me by saying it like that and I called him on it. "Wh yare you saying it llike that. You're just trying to hurt me. WHy are you doing that." He said that's just what he does. Normally, with his wife, he would make is dramatic statement and walk out of the room and not speak to her for 10 days to punisher her. (that was a direct quote)

 

I told him I don't understand why he does that and it's not necessary with me. He walked me to my car saying that's how he's always been and I would probably hate living with him. At the car he told me to not be mad. I was speechless and drove away. He didn't apologize yet, but then I haven't seen him. I may see him today in passing.

 

So, I'm sick, that was our last conversation after listening to him talk about him sorting things out and wanting to go see a counselor to help him make his decision. Then I just learned my grandma will probably die this week. My mom's mom and B was with me when MY mom died last year. So I really want to talk to him. I feel like I need him.

 

But the strong part of me knows he owes me an apology and I don't wanna call him about my grandma or initiate the convo. I feel so sad. But I haven't calle dor anything.

 

I have been on a ton of dates, meeting nice people and some not so nice.

 

GOD!

[smickey]

Hi Heatrae,

 

Sorry to hear you are sick and sorry to hear about your grandma. I think it would be better for you if you rang someone else about your grandma - a close friend that you can rely on or a member of family. Sounds like you have enough to deal with without having to deal with him as well. I know you want him to support you but he seems to be doing you more harm and upsetting you at the moment. Why don't you ring a friend and ask her to help you out instead?

 

It seems like he has an immature way of dealing with things as well - punishing his wife by not speaking to her for 10 days? That doesn't really seem like a sensible way of dealing with issues.

 

It's unbelievable how difficult your situation is, and I don't think people realise how difficult it is until they are in it themselves. That's why I understand what you are going through. I'm now living on the other side of the world (moved from a nice hot summer to a very cold winter!) and as he is here as well (about 1hrs drive away) we saw each other last Thursday to talk things through. We have basically said goodbye to each other even though we still love each other so much - we both are so messed up and need to sort ourselves out and then who knows what will happen sometime in the future. So things are difficult as I don't know many people here and am job hunting and trying to start a new life. It's been ok though as I've just thrown myself into it and am doing alright. I've asked him not to contact me anymore (until his situation changes or until I am ready to see him again) and that has helped - I'm not constantly checking my phone or emails.

 

We even did the whole letting go thing - I told him I forgave him for everything that's happened and then told him I loved him and was letting him go so he could be happy. Then he said it to me and then I walked away. It was horrible of course but at least I've started the process of letting him go and moving on with my life - he knows how I feel about him and I doubt that will ever change so I've done all I can.

 

Oops sorry didn't mean to blab on about my story - just wanted to say that I understand what you are going through and you have my (and everyone elses) support. Hope you are feeling better soon and things go ok with your grandma.

[Heatrae]

Hello my loyal advisors, iit has been a long time and I have been trying to deal with this "B" situation on my own. I had a job offer in Chicago very far from where I live and B found out about it. HE panicked and began talking of leaving the wife. I told him I was looking into this move because I was unhappy with WORK and that I can no longer attenpt to move ON while we remain working at the same place, so that personally I am unhappy as well as professionally. He told me he was going to do somehting about this situation. Since then, he has had several major conversations with his wife and she is in agreement that the two of them have nothing remotely resembling a marriage and that all they have together are their two kids. He said he feels 50 pounds lighter having talked to her about not wanting to stay married like that. He told her there wouldn't be any animosity, it's not like he would never speak to her again, they have kids together. She agreed.

 

I was shocked. This is the most he's ever done to change his situaiton. He is very proud of these progressive convos with her. He has also confided in his brother who was divorced last year. Brother told him he needs to do it, everyone knows they're unhappy together and brother has no idea I exist. Brother offered to help with money. B thought of places he can put his things like his camper, his bikes, etc. He asked a co-worker of ours if he thought the two of them would make good roommates. He has managed to get the wife to admit she's been miserable for 5 years and was just as afraid of change as he was. He told her he has nothing left to give and that she should think about it.

 

That was the last I hear and that was Monday morning. I left for a trip and he took care of my house while I was gone. He went to myhome twice a day, and upon my return I found lovey cards and candy, a bottle of wine, all waiting for me when I got back. It was very nice. Also, the Saturday prior to that, I was out with friends at a local club. He showed up with his friends and acted like we were a couple. He was very proud to be out with me and dancing, etc. IT felt so real and wonderful.

 

When I told him I wasn't going to take the job in Chicago since they couldn't pay my moving expenses, he got very excited and told me he was makign things happen at home. He was 'getting it done.' He has explained to me it is a process and that it won't happen over night, but that he has made major progress.

 

I knew he brought it up to her March 25, and I was afraid he would drop it and lose him momentum. Then after I told him I wasn't taking that job on MOnday the 5th, he was so happy and told me that he was getting it done at home and told me about their recent conversations and how shocked he was that she was in agreement with everything he presented to her. The only thing mising from their dialogue was about him moving out.

 

He has always said he wanted his leaving to be an agreement between the two and that he didn't want it to be a drag out fight. Well, he's got that right now. He did say on that Monday morning that he told her to think about it and then told me, "I dont' know....she may wanna try again, but I have nothing left to give. I've done everything I can. I stopped trying a long time ago."

 

I asked "why then, if you aren't going to try are you going to LET her try and make a fool of herself? Spare her that if you're already done. Sh'e salready on the same page, don't make this worse. Everything sounds good so far." He said, "I dont' know, I mean, SHE may think she needs to to make herself feel better, I dont' know."

 

I told him and he agreed that he's just delaying the inevitable, be it 6 weeks, or six months. He understood.

 

Well, I've seen him a couple times since then. He's always accusing me of 'messing around 'with other men since I have to travel for work. I told him to stop. He knows he can't demand anything of me and I have simply asked him for a committment to a timeline. He can't seem to give me anything other than, "I am doing something. It's happening and I've taken major steps, but I can't promise you I'll have it done in 30 days."

 

I dont' know people. Looking for a little insight from you all. I'm ready for it! Fire away!!!!

[avman]

Heatrae,

 

Well I've always been honest with you about things, and I'm not going to stop being honest now. Are you sitting down? Because this is gonna hurt.

 

You just got screwed.

 

You gave up a good job offer for a man who has never done a thing to commit to you. And once he had you been in his comfy zone, he's doing the SAME EXACT THING that he was doing before. Waffling. Stalling. "Gee I dunno, she might want to try". "Well I am doing something".

 

Let me ask you this - has he filed for divorce? Has he moved out? Has he done ANYTHING tangible other than promise you things? No, of course he hasn't. Why should he? You're going to be there for him regardless. The only time he shows a hint of doing anything is when you leave.

 

And now HE'S accusing YOU of cheating? Oh thats rich. Just lovely. He is the LAST person with any right to comment on that. He has NEVER committed to you. So who is he to comment on your life? He is trying to be possessive of you without taking any steps whatsoever to be in your life? Good grief Heatrae!!!! RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN

 

TELL me that this isn't the man you want Heatrae. TELL me you really think this guy would commit to you, be faithful to you, love you and you alone, take care of you in sickness and in health. I know I'm not buying his story for a second. There's too much history of deceit on his part for me to take what he says seriously. And neither should you.

 

PLEASE love yourself enough to let this man go.

 

avman

[Heatrae]

Thanks, Av. I do want you to know that I seriously pursued the job in Chicago. lew there, interviewed and negotiated the salary and everything. It would have meant selling my home, taking a pay cut AND having to cover my own moving expenses. I had my bottom line with the employer and he was unwilling to budge. I pursued the job in a serious attempt to MOVE ON. I know I can't move on underneat B's nose here where we work. I have proven that to myself time and time again.

 

So, had the offer been when I needed it to be, I was ready to go. I had a renter lined up for my house in the interim, etc. I was dead serious. But you are right, he only started the dialogue with the wife when he thought I was moving away from him.

 

HE does the whole, "you're running amuck" crap in a joking tone, but he does it ALL the time. It's exhausting and I don't DO ANYTHING. He knows I've been on dates and will continue to do so. He also knows that if I fall in love with someone, be it here or in Chicago, I would NOT cheat on that guy with HIM. He was crushed when I told him that. I don't wanna be a cheater. I told him I wouldn't do it to that guy (whoever that guy would be) and I certainly wouldn't do it to him.

 

I dont' think I was duped in anyway since I tried my best with the employer and took the flight there against B's wishes. I think it made a statement that I was serious about changing my life. He was shocked when I said I couldn't take the job. I told him I was going to pursue things here in my state.

 

I guess I don't understand his willingness to be so public with me and to house sit for me. He offered, which I thought was really weird. I was really surprised when he asked to watch it for the three days. IF things are progressing at home via conversation with the wife, why on earth is he risking being seen with me. That would turn it into a FIGHT over ther and that isn't what he wants' He wants the agreeable, amicable split which is what he's got so far.

 

But again, you are right: NO he has not filed for divorce. Yes, he still lives in the house. Going through the motions while the conversations continue.

 

Are you telling me there isn't a shred of hope that he will follow through? I can't believe that. I guess I don't wanna believe that, because he's so excited about the progress he's made in the last month.

 

Do you suggest I close the door to my office today. I mean Christ....the last thing he said to me yesterday wa sI love you. I said it back. It would seem VERY strange to just cut him off like that. He thinks he's making progress and then suddenly my door is closed and I don't answer the phone. What do you suggest????

[avman]

Are you telling me there isn't a shred of hope that he will follow through?

 

Yes this is exactly what I am telling you. He has never followed through. He has promised you the world time and time again and failed to deliver. He gives you only enough to keep you hanging on, without giving you what you really need. I would bet a fortune on this that he will not divorce his wife and end up with you.

 

Do you suggest I close the door to my office today. I mean Christ....the last thing he said to me yesterday wa sI love you. I said it back. It would seem VERY strange to just cut him off like that. He thinks he's making progress and then suddenly my door is closed and I don't answer the phone. What do you suggest????

 

Yes I think thats a good idea to close your office and put him out of your life. Heatrae he ISN'T making any progress. All he's doing is talking. And he's been doing that for how long now? Has anything REALLY changed? Doesn't sound like it to me. Oh sure there's been conversations, promises, attempts, convincing, flower, etc. But nothing has REALLY changed.

 

Oh I believe you were serious about the job in Chicago. And frankly, you should have taken it. Do NOT put your life on hold for this man for another second. Do what is right for you. LIVE and be free. Waiting for him to make up his mind (which he isn't going to do) only causes you pain and missed opportunities. And trust me, you are going to kick yourself for this over and over again.

 

I know I'm being really harsh. But I know you are a very intelligent woman and you will understand what I'm saying here. This guy is poison to you. Time for the antidote my friend. NO CONTACT

[Heatrae]

Av, I can close the door, but Christ! What am I supposed to say after that and not answering the phone the rest of the week. I dont' like to pay games, but for sure he will notice that I'm not reachable. How do I explain the SUDDEN change in behavior without looking like a crazy woman. And no, I dont' wanna appear gamish or crazy. I want to do things with dignity.

 

This will really throw him and regardless of my motives, I have to be prepared to respond when he catches up with me and says, "wher have you been or What's your problem???"

 

What do I say without sounding whiney or insane, but still making my point???

[avman]

Ok, try this. And maybe you should write it out so you dont have to say it in person. Because he'll just try to talk you out of this.

 

Look B, I've decided I need to get on with my life. And until my feelings for you are completely over, I can't have you in my life anymore. Maybe someday down the road, but not now. Please don't try to talk me out of this, I've made up my mind.

 

I want you to be happy. But I cannot keep going on like this waiting for you to take action. Someday perhaps when your divorce is final you can look me up and we'll talk. But until that day I need to move forward and find happiness on my own

 

Wishing you all the best, etc, etc

 

How does that sound for a basic framework? Be polite, but be firm. And STICK TO IT girl! You can do this

 

avman

[DoubleEdged]

I have just spent the past two hours reading through this entire string. I thought I had the market cornered on self destructive behavior until I read Heather's story.

 

I must compliment all of you in this forum for your patience and use of supportive yet firm advice for her. You have all shown the mark of true concern and human compassion.

 

For Heather, my heart breaks for you. I wish that you could understand that all the facts you need to make your decision about this relationship are in front of you. There is nothing more to learn from talking, from seeing him, from having anything to do with him. Yes you need to remember his words, but you also have to weigh them against what he has to done to "prove it".

 

I wish I could say that I have always had the strength, wisdom and vision to follow my own advice, but I can't. I have spent more years involved in emotionally self-destructive behavior than I care to remember. When, and only when Heather is able to weigh the good of this situation against all the heartache will she find her answer. I hope that happens sometime soon.

 

Heather you have so much to give in love, I only wish for you that you can first love yourself enough to end this completely and totally, and then find the soul that will return all the love, attention and devotion in kind.

 

For what it's worth, I saw a lot of myself and others close to me in this string this morning, and it's what I needed. This site lived up to it's name, I thank all of you for being there.

[Heatrae]

Thank you for your post. I know that for an intelligent woman, I am awfully stupid about this situation. It has gone on way too long and I have prayed for him to just tell me he's not interested, or no longer loves me. For the mere fact that I am so in love with him and do not hav the strength to stay away. We are not sexually active right now, but there are conversations. Conversations about what's goin gon at his house, me telling him how he's hurting his wife by allowing her to 'try' different things only to aggravate him and start fights. I told him if he ever loved her he would stop this insanity and let her go, spare her the embarrassment of 'trying' to fix things when he has stated repeartedly there is NOTHING she can do. It's not HER who needs to do anything. With me is able to articulate this, but he simply cannot say those words to her. He's walking around in a fog...a dark, crappy fog. He said he's spiralling out of control and has neevr been so miserable in his life. I told him what needs to happen and if he doesn't love HER enough to spare her this embarrassment of trying, then to love ME enough to walk away from me, help me be strong too, or do what he needs to do to take charge of his life.

 

I have listened to all of you over this year and HAVE used your advice. Sticking to it is another thing entirely.

 

At this point of my situation, I have had no sexual cotact with him. I do not call him, I do not email ot text him. When he has seen me at work, I don't light up ' at the sight of him and I don't return 'I love you's' when he says them to me. I told him I will not see him (dates, meetings outside of work, etc) while he's in this process with his wife. Doing things this way protects me so I dont' continue to be that close, but also allow shim space to take care of things the way he see's fit. I am not going to micromanage his divorce or separation. That's not my job.

 

People at work are very concerned about him. His affect around here is terrible and people know there is something VERY wrong with him. He has told a few people what he's trying to accomplish. Problem is he has lost him momentum with his conversations with his wife. He has been striving for a mutual split to ease the pain for all involved, but left an opening for her to do 'whatever' it is she's doing to fix things. He has not enough balls to tell her there's nothing she can nor needs to do, and I don't have enough balls to not love him anymore.

 

I love you guys!!

[RosiePosie]

Why do you think you have an accurate story from him about his homelife and wife???...He is a man who cheats on his wife and lies to her - why wouldn't you think he is lying to you about her too???

 

Even if he ever did leave his wife, your relationship most likely wouldn't last anyway...you need to just move on...

 

Quit letting your "feelings" rule your life...

[whitegarden]

Thank you so much for participating in a dialogue like this. Surprise, surprise I am in the same boat. Wow, that's the first time I have said that. I went on line trying to find something to tell me what to do. How to get him to be with me - how to get away from him. Even while writing this I feel very vulnerable because I am scared that people will judge me, hate me, find me typical or weak. After reading these postings I feel like I am not alone. Stupid maybe but not alone.

 

I am shocked at how similar everyone's situation is. When you are in the middle of the secret you think it's just you. But these posting have helped clear some of the clouds from my head.

 

I wanted to let you know I can relate. I have been having an affair for the past year and a half. In that time I too have divorced my husband while he has remained with his wife. He unlike "B" has never claimed he was going to leave her. But I know I wish he would. It's funny the things you can convince yourself of to get though the day. Take it one day at a time, tomorrow will be different.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for having the courage to talk about this. And thank you, from the bottom of my heart, to everyone else who has been supportive and non-judgmental even when there are backslides.

 

I look forward to hearing how things are progressing.

[smickey]

Hi Heatrae,

 

In some ways it is good to hear how you are going - I have often wondered over the last couple of months, but in other ways I was pleased to not see posts from you as I interpreted that to mean that you were doing ok and moving forward.

 

As you know I've been in your situation and I know how hard it is. I have to agree with the others here - you need to distance yourself from this man and let him sort himself out. Do you really want to be with someone who is so indecisive and unsure of what he wants? Do you really think that someone who has caused you so much grief and trouble can possibly give you all the happiness you want? I know it's hard to believe all this stuff - I've had to really push myself to believe it about my so-called 'perfect man' - I still love him more than anything, but I realise now how much he hurt me and how that has changed the person that I am.

 

I'm no expert but here's my advice to you (she says realising how much easier it is to dispense advice than take it...). Tell this man that you do not want to be with him until he hands you a copy of his divorce papers, signed by a judge. Then do everything you possibly can for yourself. Find a new job - you don't have to move cities - but at least explore all options - maybe a career change, or a transfer. Do something new - a course - something fun, like salsa dancing or cookery or a language. Read all the books you have been meaning to read, see all those movies, go out to dinner. I know you are doing this stuff already, but do it with everything you have - direct your energies back towards yourself and away from him. If this guy is the one for you then he will be back, divorce papers at the ready. If not, then you will be the amazing person that you already are, but even better and someone out there will see those beautiful things about you. Or at the very least you will see them in yourself.

 

I haven't seen my 'ex' since February, and right now I don't want to see him for a long time - not because I don't love him, but because it is harmful for me to be around him and because I have worked so hard to get my life back and I don't want to go backwards again. I've got a new job following the career path I want, I have an active social life and have been on lots of trips, both alone and with others. I am about to learn how to scuba dive so at the end of the year I can dive in the Red Sea as part of a trip to Egypt to see the pyramids and the nile - something I have always wanted to do. I'm single still, but am learning how to be comfortable with that, and last night I went out and met a really nice guy who (hopefully) I will see again. I'm currently coming off the anti-depressants as well. It has been the hardest period of my life, but I have learnt so much about myself as well.

 

I think you'll have noticed from these posts that people genuinely care for you and want you to be happy. I can't wait for the day when I log on here and see messages from you saying that you are loving life and being genuinely happy again. Good luck Heatrae, take it one day at a time, even one hour at a time if you have to and things will get better I promise.

[Heatrae]

Thanks! I wish I had something more positive to report, but something has taken a dramatic shift and I can't figure out what is happening:

 

We worked together on a project for two days- it was nice. During that time he continued to talk about feeling so overwhelmed. His wife said to him, "you'd better make a f-ing decision" and kicked it right back on her and said the same thing. I tried to explain how a timeline would be a good thing for us to work within for our own sanity's sake and he implored he could not commit to one because he can't say that on THIS day at THIS time I'm going to do it. This convo made him mad and the day didn't finish well.

 

The next day there was tension obviously. I brought up how he talked to me, etc. then we got on the topic of him feeling backed into a corner. He said if he feels so backed in, he will shut down. I simply told him I didn't deserve to be talked to the way he had the day prior. He said, "Well, I can't give you a day, so I"m just going to say I"m staying where I'm at. I"m just going to say that." I looked stunned. Then he leaned toward me and said, "You KNOW I'm lying, I am doing it, I just can't give you a date."

 

That day he went to my house, dug this trench for me, called a few times, etc. All the while, all I could think about was his comment about staying where he's at- even if he did recant it. I figured it was my big chance to break free and it would be on HIM!

 

He called that Friday and was very nice. Then unexpectedly he showed up at my house May first. I was gross from the gym. I was happy to see him, surprised...he's never come over unannounced. We visited and he look at some things arounf my house that need fixing. I wasn't hanging on him and there was no sex- it didn't even occur to me because of what he said Thursday and I was trying to clowly break away.

 

I did however, place a thank you card with a gift cert at his desk for diggin the trench for me, but he hadn't opened it yet until that afternoon.

 

I didn't take his call on Sunday evening and thenI saw him at work briefly Monday. He was a bit quiet. He called that night to thank me for the card and cert., and then was just quiet so I politely said, "well, hey, I will let ya go..." He got very upset that I was hanging up and proceeded to ask me how my concert went on Sat (the say he stopped by. He had badgered me as to who was taking me to the Seal concert.) He had asked, 'who ya going with???' over and over and never let me answer. He rattled off these names of people he KNEW I wasn't going with and never let me respond. he was all over the place.

 

So, on the phone he asked how the concert was and wouldn't let me off the phone. He didn't like me hanging up first I guess. The next day was Tuesday day. He brought a document into me and started very sarcastically, "who's this for, your bf, your bf??!! WHo's yer bf? I know you have one!" (not yeling but talking quickly and sarcastically, not giving me a chance to respond.) I was stunned.

 

I sat there saying, "why are you acting like this? Where is this coming from? " Bottom line is, he went off about this mystery bf and let his imagination run wild saying this guy spent the night, etc..I told him if he wanted to know anything, to simply ask me. He yelled he doesnt' want to know, so he does it THIS way. HE siad he has no right to ask me anything about my life, etc.

 

He left my office and returned 5 minutes later to tell me how he deduced I had a bf. Because when he came to my house, we didn't make love. That I was different and that a while back I had told him if I was ever with another man, I would not see him. (OK, at least he wa listening.) But there was no other man, in fact, I went to the concert with a gf who he assumed I wasn't going with. The man never even gave me achance to answer even if I wanted to.

 

So, a week passes and he never called to apologize. I couldn't understand why he wouldn't call to fix this. Take responsibility for his sarcastic ranting. NOTHING!

 

Then he came to work the following monday and visited in everyone's office except mine. He totally ignored me. What had I done???? I did nothing. I had even offered to answer any question he may have, but he didn't want to knwo....so why am I being punished??????

 

Then next day (last Tuesday) I bumpued into him in the parking lot. He said calmly, "what, you don't wanna be my friend any more- you don't talk to me???" I spun it a little differently and asked him the same thing saying I thought his behavior last week must have been a joke.

 

He assured me it wasn't and that he was very serious. He said that he doesn't know what's going on in my life and doesn't think he has a right to ask so he does it HIS way and hopes I will give him the correct info. When I don't offer [that there's no bf] he is only left to assume the worst. I asked WHYon earth he would assume the worst of me and he said that's how he see's people. We talked for a few minutes, I htought the convo waS going fairly well, and then from out of the blue he sarcastically attacked me about riding motorcycles with other men. Budies of ours but that if he got a bike, I wouldn't ride with him. He thinks that's BS and really went off.

 

Here he was calming down and then BLAM! He brings up this other issue about me not thinking it was OK to ride with him because we're not together. He thinks since I ride with other friends of ours, I should ride with him too. But he has always said he doesn't wanna be looking over his shoulder when he's out with me so we agreed we wouldn't go on dates until he was free.

 

People...he blew up and left the lot. I was shocked. I followed him and told him, "You've lost your mind. I don't dsereve to be treated this way..." The whole thing lasted about 6 minutes.

 

Before I left that day, i shot him an email saying I "didnt' deserve this treatment, I don't know where this is coming from or WHY he's hell-bent on making me out to be a bad person. If you're trying to cut me out of your life, please just say something...dont' do what my family does to me, etc. If you can understand anything I"m saying here, gie me a call, or lets set some time aside to talk and get things back on track. I think we just need to be honest and real- make things simple. I"ll leave the ball inm your court since you still seem very mad and upset."

 

He wrote back, "Ill get with you."

 

NOTHING. Tomorrow is another 7 days. What is he DOING???????????? I mean, what on earth did I do? Hell, I WISH there was a bf, at least this behavior would be warranted.

 

I have been hurting sooo very much these two weeks and for nothing. I was not intending on getting back with him, but to bring his behavior to light, and to explain how i am going to move on. BUt this is so out of characted for him to treat ME this way.

 

Is he having a melt down? Someone, please tell me what's going on here? Thanks so much...this has been a very long two weeks!!!!

[RosiePosie]

Hello - he's MARRIED, remember???

 

Of course, he's gonna act strangely...he's acting jealous and possessive. He must feel guilty about being married and having you on the side. And he wants to have both you and his wife. That isn't hard to understand.

 

I say again, you need to be the one who cuts all ties with him because he doesn't seem to have the brass to choose one of you or the other.

 

And all it's doing to you in the meantime is make you crazy.

 

Why would you want someone who can put his own feelings above yours anyway??? You deserve better.

 

The only other thing I can think is that you really like the drama because it feeds some need in you.

 

 

Good luck.

[Heatrae]

Thanks Rosie. What I hear you saying is that he's purely acting out of jealousy and only concerned with his jealousy not me thinking poorly of him because of how he's behaving. He's acting strangely because he felt me pull away and he DID NOT LIKE IT!!!

 

Please tell me that's what you're saying. I spend so much time analyzing and I become less and less objective!!! God I have ISSUES!

 

Thanks for your feedback.

[The Morrigan]

Heatrae...

 

Honey... your first post about B was about a YEAR AGO, on THIS FORUM. Honestly - how far have you progressed in that time where B is concerned? Do you feel ANY BETTER in or about the on/off relationship? Has he done ANYTHING to make you feel more important in his life, to make you feel like he's working towards giving you what you deserve from him?

 

I'm not trying to hurt you, ok? But honestly, what's left you haven't tried? You've tried not pressuring him, and it's gotten you a happy guy who left you to spend holidays alone, and expected you to understand. You've tried pulling away, and he pushes your buttons making you wonder, worry, and question til a strong show of affection seems like more of a committment on his part. You've tried talking to him logically and reasonably, and been told he's "working on things" and you should trust him.

 

Sweetie... it's time. Time to stop questioning his actions - and start really looking at your own, and what they're doing for you. Stop trying to be so fair to him that you're crippling yourself with "what if"s and take stock of what you really want for yourself here, ok?

[amaranth_04]

Hi Heatrae,

 

I read through this thread a few weeks ago and have been checking to see if you had posted recently.

 

I agree with what everyone else has basically posted, you need to move on. And it's way past the time you should have moved on, and you have to get on it now.

 

Nevermind that he is married but the character of this guy, you shouldn't want him even if he were single and available. Nevermind the chemistry you feel that is there, time and again you've shown that this relationship is not doing you any good.

 

So many people have posted here with a lot of advice, details on how to approach the situation etc, but it seems like you will do what you want to do.

 

You don't need to figure out why he's this way. Just see that he is. You don't owe him any explanation as to your future plans. Cut ties with him for good. I know you work with him but I see that the situation has gone on for far too long and you're not doing good, and you have to seriously consider a way to move away from him, for good. Your job is important to you, but your health should be as well.

 

You have to remove yourself from the situation to gain proper perspective, but the more you allow him to see you, the more opportunities you give him to play with your mind, and your emotions, which is exactly what he is doing, and you end up getting your thoughts messed up and your resolve broken.

 

I think everyone who has followed your thread sees that this guy is no good for you, and I'll say no good for any woman, too.

 

I really hope you take stock of things and make a plan to get yourself out of this situation, and stick to it, for your own sanity, and that should matter to you.

[Heatrae]

Morrigan,

I know you have been here with me this whole time. It's embarrassing as hell! What I can tell you is that I have always believed in this man. He is very intense with his love for me and I for him. I have tried, as you know, to break away completely with hopes of being friendly at work sometime in the future, but we end up gravitating toward each other and the cycle starts- invarying degrees, etc.

 

He has taken steps toward addressing the major issues in his marriage and this is afirst for him. He is very proud about that. However, no, he hasn't moved out, nor filed any papers.

 

So, nothing concret other than to tell me he is doing it, you are correct. I guess now I just feel numb because I spen so much time thinking about WHY he would shut down like this. OTher than this is WHAT he does to people in his life and then he gets back on track.

 

Can you recommend any books or anything that can help me move forward. Hell, I was reading, "Women Who THink Too Much" and felt better for a day, but then I was right back to my old perseverating behavior!!!

 

I do need help. Hell, this is my big chance to really break away and get 'clean'. He's the one who had the tantrum over nothing, not me. I am GOLDEN and his behavior was so crazy I have a great excuse to not be speaking to him. He's staying away for whatever reasons, but maybe this is a great excuse for me to move on. (as if I needed one)

 

For whatever reason, I'm always so concerned about "looking good" being the one who handled theirself with class. In this case, I think it's ideal: he had a tantrum, admitted why he had the tantrum because he's jealous an I don't tell him there is no bf, and then he went off again. So...I did nothing and he looks like an ass. He's not speaking to me and I refuse to chase him. Probably something he's not used to at home.

 

So, I need to capiltalize on this opportunity and use this as my catalyst to really move on!!!! I CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!

 

I am sorry if you have all felt I dont' listen. I guess I haven't acted as though I was listening (hell, Im still here). But I am trying. Just a little further. Please stay with me people. This is my LAST CHANCE.

 

If youremember, i always HATED having a convo with him about not seeing each other. Well, guess what, he's now off pouting somewhere over jealousy and not speaking to me, so I don't HAVE to have that convo. He's acting passive aggressive and I can turn this into a positive for me, wouldn't you say?????

[bluesky]

Heather... I have just spent the last few hours reading your entire thread. It almost brought me to tears. Do you know why? You obviously have a lot of love to give, yet you have just spent more than one year in a relationship that is very toxic to you. There are others in this world who are so very lonely every day, and would be so incredibly happy if someone even spent one tenth of the amount of energy on them that you spend on B.

 

What are you are in love with is not B, but the fairy tale image of him that you have built in your mind, or at least the fairy tale marriage you imagine you could have with him. Having good chemistry is not a good foundation to any relationship. Do you know what is? Trust, and real caring for the other person. If B truly cared for you, he would have made a decision one way or another, over a year ago. Regardless of what he says now, the fact that he failed to make a choice, and knowing how much pain it is still causing you proves that he does not love you. Any man who truly loved a woman would do anything to spare her from shedding even a single tear. That is what love is.

 

What you and B share is not love. It is an addiction. And the sad thing is that it is destroying you in the process, because you have become too blind to see what is happening to you. Now I really did shed a tear... I'm so sad for you.

 

It is so sad because there are so many other guys out there who could make a fairy tale come true for you, if you only gave them half a chance. Maybe you haven't met him yet, but as long as you are obsessing over a dream that will never happen, you will never meet that someone special who could truly make you happy. Please, please let B go. He is too weak, so you must be strong. End this, now. You have wasted too much of your life already on him. There really are other guys out there that could make your dreams come true, if you'd only give them the chance.

[capnvag]

it's definitely hard. i know. i read the post above me and i feel the same exact way. i'm so sad for you. and i too just spent the last 2 hours reading every post on these last 32 pages.

 

i am not great with words or spelling (hahaha) so bare with me here.... these are just my thoughts and opinions

 

i started reading your post becasue the subject sounded like it would appeal to what i am going through now and it did completely. heatrae.. i am going through the SAME exact thing you are. the 1 and only difference is the guy im seeing isn't married or have kids. though he is in a long term relationship with a girl and is living with her. when i read the replys to your post i think the same exact thing you do when you reply. do you know what i mean?

 

it's such a hard hard thing. you're in a "relationship" with someone you "think" loves you as much as you love them. with someone like me and you.. we're full of love to give someone and we're single and insecure and lonely and weak and we are so certain that we are in love with that other person. no matter if they are married or in a serious relationship, if they aren't giving us the 100% we deserve...whatever.. we are so blindly in love... we see hope in the fact that maybe if we just stick it out a little longer that we'll see a light at the end of the tunnel that one day everything will come together and everythign will make sense. that all this pain and hurt and confusion we've been dealing with for the past week or 2 years.. it was worth something... we know that our feelings are soo genuine and so pure and we are so blind to everything around us that when they tell us things like "i love you, you're my soul mate, i don't know what the future holds just hold on, i want to be with you and only you, im unhappy in my current relationship but i can't get out of it" it's so easy to believe. and it's so easy to be sucked right back in....

 

my situation has been going on for 2 years and has been off and on. we talk every day.. and we've had times where we've cut it off. where we've realized it's unhealthy for both of us to continue. so we stop seeing eachother.. yet within a month we've always gotten back together... it never fails. i can be so mad at him.. my friends can tell me he is the worst guy ever and that i deserve so much better.. but i will still check my email, check my phone for a text or a missed call and i will still agree to see him. it's hard to give up on something you consider to be love. it is very addictive. we feel so in love.. and so happy when we see them or talk to them.. everything that is bad in our situation seems to be blown away within a instant of talkign to them or looking at them. it's sort of a bad habit. for me.. its a little different becasue i've never been in love before. i never knew what it was like or how it was gonna effect me, i never experienced it before to know how to deal with the pros and cons of it.. i question myself so often. i try to be as honest with myself as possible. i know he is in a serious relationship. and he's told me time and time again that he is not going to leave his girlfriend and if he only had met me 4 years ago things would be so much different. when i hear that.. it brigns me back to reality and at that "moment" i realize that yah it's not going to work. i'm wasting my time. i have the whole world out there waiting for me. i need to just put myself out there.. but it's easier said than done.... they always know how to pull you back in. they know the magic words. they know what to say, when to say it. they are manipulative liars. they know exactly what they are doing.

 

they have the best of both worlds.. why would they want to leave that??? they have a home, a wife, a life with a sense of security and comfort something they've learned to be accustomed to for many years... then they have us.. the person that is waiting for them in the shadows. the person that will drop everything and do anything for them.. the person they can run to when things at home aren't going to well.. the person who accepts them for who they are and what they do (ie: cheating on their wives), the person that will always be there to tell them how much we love them and how great they are.. they have us wrapped around their finger. and they can leave us at the end of the day.. i think one of the reasons they don't leave their signifigant other and commit themselves to us exclusivley; the person who is willing to give them all the love and companionship and comfort and security they could ever ask for is becasue it will be so brand new. have you ever lived with the guy you're seeing?? have you ever dated him for years and spent every waking moment wth him?! with their wife or girlfriend.. it's such a comfort thing. their wife knows every little habit they have.. they know everything and even though you've been seeing this person for 90581239032 years.. you still dont REALLY know them. you know the little things they like.. how they liked to be touched.. what kind of job they have.. what their hobbies are.. you know the little insignifigant things.. you 2 might tell eachother everything.. you might know some personal things about them that even their wives don't know... but their wives on the other hand know EVERYTHING about them and know how to deal with them.. they know how they wipe their butt.. how they snore at night... what pisses them off... how they like their breakfast in the morning.. what time they get up to take the dogs for a walk.. they know all their friends and families.. they know all their niches and habits.. if he were to break up with his wife and be with you... he will have to learn to be as comfortable with you as he is with his wife.... it's kinda like.. have you ever had a BEST FRIEND and you knew EVERYTHING about eachother.. and you 2 decided it'd be perfect if you 2 became roommates and moved in together becasue you 2 were so close it'd be so perfect.. and you never ever thougth about all the little annoying nagging things you'd find out about eachotehr after spending every day with eachother? and you 2 begin to get on eachothers nerves and hate eachotehr and sooner or later you 2 aren't friends any longer... and it takes years of compromise to either continue living with that person or to even become friends again... it's exactly that. sure you might have been in love with this guy and in a "relationship" with him for many years.. so you might think you know him very well.. and you might... but he won't leave his wife to be in a new fresh relationship with you and dump all his comforts behind because it's just that.. too fresh and too new. he'd have to basically start everything all over again.. and why should he if he doesn't have to.. if he has it already somewhere else?!!?!? i mean the guy im in this situation with said it best when he told me "the difference between you and my girlfriend is that .. i have history with my girlfriend, me and you don't. that's hard to let go of" and it's true.. and it might not be the ONLY reason why they don't leave their wives but it's definitley a part that no one has looked at...... and it's the same reason why we dont' leave them. how hard is it for us to go out and find anotehr man to make us happy and to love as we think we do them?? it's such a timely process we'd rather stick it out through this pain becasue it's comfortable and so much easier and they tell us they love us back.. so we think we have everything we need.. when really it's just comfort..

 

i think that the only way we are going to ever prevail and get ourselves out of this slump is not by necessarily finding another guy but just realizing what we DON'T want. i mean.. sure they seem amazing. we are supposedly in love. but how can we be in love? how can we be in love with someone that is with someone else whehter or not they love them... they've proven time and time again that they won't leave them.. so how can you be in love with someone that can't love you back 100%? i mean... we need to realize that we don't want to be lied to.. how can we trust them?? when they tell us that they love us as much as we love them and they tell us that we are their everything and all that.. how can we believe that?? when they might very well be saying those exact words to their wives or girlfriends as they are laying next to them in bed... we don't want someone that will disrespect us.. yet by continuing to be with someone who is in a relationship.. you're being disrespected. he doesn't care what he's doing to you. he's using you and knows how to do it well.. he's getting what he wants so he isn't going to just stop. there is no reason for him to... and everytime you give into him.. he loses a little bit more respect for you becasue he knows it's that much easier to get you to do whatever he asks.

 

i find that the hardest thing for me and getting over all of this.. is i have so much guilt inside of me. i feel sooo bad for what i do to his girlfriend. that i just stop talking to him that i hate him and soemtimes even myself. and i realize how crappy he is and how crappy i'm being by still seeing him.... and then when i stop talkign to him and i begin to ignore him.. i feel so bad.. i don't want him to be mad at me.. i mean i care about him!!! why would i want him to be mad at me??? i just to need to get over the big hurdle that... i don't really love him.. just mearly the idea of him.. it's easy for us to continue in this cycle of talkign to them and seeing them and even sleeping with them.. it's easy because it's right there in front of us. we dont have to do any work.. we don't have to go out and find someone new.. we're as comfortable as they are.. so it's hard to just stand up and quit and say no. when it's so easy. it goes for both sides of the relationship. i mean we've made so many sacrifices to be with that one person.. we aren't going to give up that easily even if the answer is black and white and right in front of us.. HE DON'T LOVES ME AND IT WILL NEVER WORK OUT.

 

it's not easy.. not by any means. and i feel for everyone that has to go through this... people who are on the outside don't understand the emotional state we're in and how deep we're in it.. and as hard it is for them to pick up and leave their wives .. it's just as hard for us to pick up and leave them and move on with our lives.... it's all a stalling process and until we really really want something to change and we are ready for that change.. nothign will ever change..

 

we just all need to realize we're not really in love.. love doesn't include this much hurt and suffering and deceit. love is happiness and bliss and euphoria and every single day we spend with these people that are in other realtionships thinking that we love them adn that they are the only one we can be with.. we are lying to ourselves.. and that's not love.. that's not euphoria...

 

i so greatly appreciate everyones comments and advice.. i loved reading it and it has helped me.. i know what i have to do now... now all i need is the will power to stick with it.... and im going to try my damndest as i hope you all do too... i wish you all the best and thank you again for everything that was said casue i too got alot out of it even if none of you were talking directly to me.