So called "Nice Guy" Syndrome

[Dating Coach]

Females don't like 'nice guys' because they need drama in their life. A complacent, cooperative and eager to please man provides none of that, so regardless of whether or not it's better for them in the long run a woman will pick a relationship that is full of drama until the day comes when they want to settle down, then they will complain there is no nice guys left because they are all married (which, they will be).

 

I'm sorry but I could not disagree more. I think this is a total cop out. It's the womans fault for wanting "drama"? Geez man, that's pretty rude to say to the women.

 

That is NOT true. It may be that a small percentage of women are like that but in general, no way. Women don't need "drama" to like a guy, they do not turn down so-called nice guys because they don't provide drama, and they aren't the ones at fault for passing up on so-called nice guys.

 

The problem is that most so-called nice guys are lacking self respect, self confidence, the ability to be a challenge, and the ability to disagree and stand up for his own beliefs even at the risk of raising her disapproval. Too many so called nice guys are doormats, pushovers, etc. That is not attractive.

 

If you ask my fiance' how I treat her, she would spend all day long telling you about how good I am to her. She would tell you how lucky she is to be with me. She just told me this again last night. However, I am no pushover to her. If she does something that I find disrespectful, I do not ignore it or pretend it didn't happen. I am not afraid to call her out on it even if I suspect it may lead to an argument. I will tell her exactly how I feel about it and tell her that it was rude and disrespectful. If she does something selfish, I will call her out on it. I am not going to scream at her or get into a heavy fight if I can help it, but neither am I going to sit back and let bad habits form in our relationship. Even if she disagrees with me about something, even gets mad at the stance I take, she respects me because I am able to stand for what I believe in. This is what most so called nice guys lack. They are pushovers. They wouldn't dare stand up for himself, they would rather ignore the problem than risk raising the ire of his significant other. Overtime this passivity causes the girl to lose respect and when respect is gone, so folllows chemistry and attraction.

 

It isn't that she "wants drama" she wants to respect and admire her partner. Not pity him or look down on him.

 

There is the sleazy nice guys you meet at the nightclub (blokes can generally tell the type straight away) who noticably changes when he is picking up or around a woman he wants to pull - he will say honestly he is a nice guy when his mates know full well he treats women (and men) poorly. These guys get a lot of birds though.

 

Those guys are jerks and most girls who are worth dating will spot these guys 100 miles away. The girls that don't, might not even care, they might just be looking for a good time too, but then feel guilty about it later.

 

There is the nerdy nice guy who doesn't get the birds very often so places the woman he is with (or has a chance with) on a pedestal which scares them off (and doesn't provide the aforementioned required drama). - These are the ones who complain about turning into a friend too much - and rightly so, it sucks. These guys generally turn into much more well balanced people and generally stay nice, turning into the final nice guy...

 

It isn't the "lack of drama" that scares women off. Those guys aren't "the perfect man" and cannot provide "the perfect relationship" because they are pushovers, doormats, lack the challenge, etc. Women aren't "scared away" from them, they simply are not attracted to them at all. Why should they be?

 

The genuine nice guy is someone who lives and treats people the way he wants to be treated and does it just because they couldn't live any other way. These guys don't put the hard word on girls as much as some, and as a result can end up being shelved as friends. But rest assured, living by standards and having a moral code will pay off in the long run, not to mention that, as I said before, these nice guys will all be married by the time the drama queens are ready to settle down.

 

I find it curious that you say the genuine nice guy treats people the way he wants to be treated, but you didn't clarify whether or not he makes sure that he is treated that way. If not, then this nice guy is no different then the "nerdy" one you mentioned above. You can always treat people with respect and how you want to be treated-I do-but the key here for relationships to be successful is that you must also make sure you are treated that way in return.

 

For example. You take a girl out to dinner and you tell her that you want seafood, but she says no, that she wants mexican. You can take her for mexican, that's fine, because you would want someone to be kind and take you where you want to eat so you do this for her.

However a week later you go out again. This time you want seafood and she says, no, I want chinese. A pushover guy will give in and ignore his own wants and needs to satisfy her. Whereas a guy with self respect would say, no, last time we did this, I gave you what you wanted, now this time we are getting seafood. If she throws a fit wanting chinese and doesn't seem to be considering your feelings at all, you have every right to drop her butt off and end things right there because is selfish and doesn't care about your feelings. That is where the "nice guy" with no backbone, and the gentleman are different. The gentleman respects himself and his partner, whereas the "nice guy" only respects his partner. To women, this is going to eventually turn her off and she will either leave or abuse the wimpy pushover guys trust.

 

wow!! that was a great post, I think you have said it really well and it makes so much sense.

 

reading on that heartless btches site was so depressing, it is back to the old caveat that you shouldn't ask women for advice on women.

 

I don't get it.

 

The "heartless B" on that other website explains that the women aren't attracted to these guys because they don't respect themselves enough, don't stand up for themselves, etc-and you call her names and think she is mean.

 

Then, mike-mike makes a post and says that women only want drama in your life and you then say it makes sense.

 

That seems very contradicting to me. Wouldn't the women who dump nice guys because they don't provide drama be the ones you would be depressed about? Why is that not depressing to you but women not having attraction to guys with low self respect and confidence is? I don't get how you are reasoning this...

 

I am not going to wholesale change the way I am, I will stay being nice, I may be a bit boring but it would be wrong for me to change. I may put a girl I like on a bit of a pedestal, but I still believe a deserving girl will deserve that and be able to enjoy that. There is still hope for us, and we shouldn't change because of the heartlessness in this world.

 

Again, how is it heartless for a girl to not have respect for a guy who doesn't respect himself? What about that concept is "heartless" to you?

 

Also again, changing bad behaviors is NOT changing who you are. Your behaviors are ACTIONS, not what is in your heart, unless you are saying that you truly do NOT want respect from women. I think you do want that respect, so if you work on changing your behavior, you would not be changing who you are at all, you would be ensuring you get what you feel you deserve. What about that is so hard to accept?

[Boricua7]

I'm sorry but I could not disagree more. I think this is a total cop out. It's the womans fault for wanting "drama"? Geez man, that's pretty rude to say to the women.

 

That is NOT true. It may be that a small percentage of women are like that but in general, no way. Women don't need "drama" to like a guy, they do not turn down so-called nice guys because they don't provide drama, and they aren't the ones at fault for passing up on so-called nice guys.

 

The problem is that most so-called nice guys are lacking self respect, self confidence, the ability to be a challenge, and the ability to disagree and stand up for his own beliefs even at the risk of raising her disapproval. Too many so called nice guys are doormats, pushovers, etc. That is not attractive...

 

EXACTLY! Being a pushover who can't stand up for himself or fears making his s/o mad so much that he won't stand up for his own beliefs is NOT ATTRACTIVE. Women don't hate the guys who are like this, they just don't give them the time of day. Why would a woman want to have a guy who doesn't know how to be a man? I am not saying that being a jerk makes you a man as I'm sure you're going to attempt to twist my words to make it seem like that. I am saying that a man does not care what someone else thinks of him if that someone else does not care whether or not they hurt him. If he is being disrespected in any way he should be able to look the person who is disrespecting him straight in the eye and say "Hey, I don't appreciate that". Why is it so hard for you to accept this???

 

Are you just waiting for some girl to say "Oh poor you. You've been through so much. You really ARE a nice guy and I want you because I feel bad for you. You deserve to have someone who likes you since you're a nice guy"? Sorry but it doesn't work that way. If you're a nice guy, yes you do deserve someone who likes you but that doesn't mean that because you are nice every girl should want to jump your bones. Get over wanting to be pitied.

 

Pity (as defined by link removed): Sympathy and sorrow aroused by the misfortune or suffering of another.

 

You want this? You want someone to be sad because you're sad? That's messed up! I think this shows that maybe you aren't such a nice guy if you are being so selfish as to expect everyone to sacrafice their happiness because you don't have yours.

[Dating Coach]

Why are guys that have a bit of a 'pushover' tendency so hated by so many women? Us easygoing passive non-confrontational guys are pretty good hearted you know, it's a shame you hate us so much.

 

And it is not about claiming to be a nice guy. I can be super nice but a bit of a pushover and it seems to be drawing hatred from many women.

 

They hate you? Where did you get that from? These women don't hate the passive non-self respecting nice guy. They friendzone you.

 

Ask youself WHY they should chose you as a romantic partner? What makes you so worthy of a romantic relationship over a guy who can be just as nice, but actually respects himself?

 

Wait a sec, are you saying that you do DESERVE a woman? Well hey! Right on! You may be taking a first step towards demanding that you get the respect back! Yay!

 

monsiuer, I hope I am getting you thinking here, because that's my goal, to attempt to get you to realize what I am saying. I want to help but it's hard because I don't see you acknowledging anything so far.

[Dating Coach]

You know, I was just thinking...

 

What is so nice about thinking someone should fall in love with you because you are nice? Basically what that is saying is, "I think I should be able to buy love with my niceness!" and I don't see what's nice about that at all. Seems pretty selfish if you ask me.

 

Women don't owe a guy love because he is nice to her. To think that she does is the opposite of nice.

[Boricua7]

You know, I was just thinking...

 

What is so nice about thinking someone should fall in love with you because you are nice? Basically what that is saying is, "I think I should be able to buy love with my niceness!" and I don't see what's nice about that at all. Seems pretty selfish if you ask me.

 

Women don't owe a guy love because he is nice to her. To think that she does is the opposite of nice.

 

THIS IS IT! There is no need to post anything more. You've said it all right here!!! This is exactly everyone's point and you've said it perfectly. If monsieur and mike-e-mike STILL don't get it then they are just hopeless causes and a waste of everyone's time.

[heythere1234]

Diggety, I feel your pain, but I'm afraid it's no use.

[Dating Coach]

Diggety, I feel your pain, but I'm afraid it's no use.

 

It's Diggity.

[heythere1234]

It's Diggity.

 

I know, I keep forgetting.

[tylercdurden2004]

THIS IS IT! There is no need to post anything more. You've said it all right here!!! This is exactly everyone's point and you've said it perfectly. If monsieur and mike-e-mike STILL don't get it then they are just hopeless causes and a waste of everyone's time.

 

According to mike-e-mike its alright to buy a girls love with drinks as well. Maybe this is what I've been doing all wrong!

[heythere1234]

According to mike-e-mike its alright to buy a girls love with drinks as well. Maybe this is what I've been doing all wrong!

 

Now you have a game plan! You playa you!

[Boricua7]

Oh that's right because nice guys love buying women multiple drinks so that they can get them drunk. That's the definition of a nice guy right there!

[monsieur]

How did this thread get so off?

 

It seems to me it is mostly the bad boys that do the getting the girl drunk thing. I'm a nice guy and I sure don't do that kind of stuff, I don't even hardly drink myself.

[Boricua7]

How did this thread get so off?

 

It seems to me it is mostly the bad boys that do the getting the girl drunk thing. I'm a nice guy and I sure don't do that kind of stuff, I don't even hardly drink myself.

 

You mean to say that you have never even once offered to by a girl a drink? I find that just a little hard to believe.

 

This thread hasn't gone "off". We've all said what we had to say and there is not point in going around in circles anymore so we're taking it in a new direction. It's certainly still on!

[tylercdurden2004]

Oh that's right because nice guys love buying women multiple drinks so that they can get them drunk. That's the definition of a nice guy right there!

 

Well its not so much getting them drunk as it is buying them off. Exchanging goods for sex kinda like prostitution. I myself have never bought girls drinks and would sooner help out the rummy at the end of the bar who needs a drink than provide charity to some chick. Mainly cause I am a cheap b@**ard!

[heythere1234]

Can't speak for anyone else, but for sure a guy buying me a drink isn't going to get him sex. There's not much correlation. But if he's buying a girl numerous drinks in the hopes she'll get so drunk she'll be unable to say no, then that's a whole different animal.

[tylercdurden2004]

Can't speak for anyone else, but for sure a guy buying me a drink isn't going to get him sex. There's not much correlation. But if he's buying a girl numerous drinks in the hopes she'll get so drunk she'll be unable to say no, then that's a whole different animal.

 

What the girl or the guy?

[heythere1234]

Now that you put it that way I guess both.

[Boricua7]

That IS a whole different animal. You're right, ty, not to let a girl use you so that she doesn't have to pay for her own drinks.

 

In that scenerio, both the woman using the man and the man allowing himself to be used in hopes for sex are both animals.

[heythere1234]

that's not really the direction I was getting at.

[tylercdurden2004]

That IS a whole different animal. You're right, ty, not to let a girl use you so that she doesn't have to pay for her own drinks.

 

In that scenerio, both the woman using the man and the man allowing himself to be used in hopes for sex are both animals.

 

Yes it cuts both ways. Nothing respeftable about a girl who accepts drinks from a man. Says either:

 

1. You can buy my love.

2. I can use you.

 

Now if its a friend or mate then buying rounds is alright, or if someones down on there luck maybe, depending on the situation.

[heythere1234]

So what's a girl to do when a man practicly coerces her into bying the drink. Or if he wants to stop for coffee and insists on paying, but you'd rather pay because you don't want to feel like you owe him, and you never asked for it anyway, and you also don't want to make a big issue out of it?

[tylercdurden2004]

So what's a girl to do when a man practicly coerces her into bying the drink. Or if he wants to stop for coffee and insists on paying, but you'd rather pay because you don't want to feel like you owe him, and you never asked for it anyway, and you also don't want to make a big issue out of it?

Its really up to you but I wouldnt accept it because it would clearly make me feel uncomfortable if he was placing that much pressure on me. Politley decline his offer because really if you are not giving him clear signs or he is not reading the sign properly then you are not on the same wavelength and whats the point of continuing.

[heythere1234]

I know but it happens, and you say no thanks, and you're trying to be polite but he's forcing you to get REAL direct with him, and it seems like it can be a no win situation.

[tylercdurden2004]

I know but it happens, and you say no thanks, and you're trying to be polite but he's forcing you to get REAL direct with him, and it seems like it can be a no win situation.

 

Then walk away and end it there if he is making you feel uncomfortable.

[heythere1234]

Yeah I know if it's a stranger it's one thing, but sometimes it's someone from work or something like that, and they've made it clear they like you...etc...it's kind of like trying to buy people, and I don't like that. I can afford my own coffee!