Help! Don't understand him at all!

[finneganswake]

Hey guys, I'm new here, but I would appreciate any help regarding this situation I've been in...

 

So a few months ago (back in October) I met this guy online. We went out on a few dates and had a really great time. Unfortunately, we let things get a little out of hand...we had sex on the first date. A few weeks after dating he says that he is not ready to date or be in a relationship because he still isn't over his previous relationship (which ended over a year ago). I was sad to hear this, but wished him well and was understanding.

 

Two weeks ago he emails me. He said he had missed me and had been thinking a lot about us over the Christmas season and wanted to try a go at dating again. I asked him if he was sure, he said yes, so we went on a date. Everything was fine and we both had a great time.

 

Then...two days later he emails saying he just wants to be friends but that he still cares for me, thinks I am insanely gorgeous (he said that he'll always have a hard time keeping his hands to himself around me) and that he is sorry for trying to do something he wasn't 100% sure of. I am a little less bothered this time, although I do let him know that I'm not going to be messed about, I don't want to date him again, and that when he is ready to be friends, to contact me.

 

Two days later he sends another email, asking if I want to go to the movies with him this weekend and running sometime next week. That is in addition to the emails he sends most days from work, asking how I am, how classes are going...general conversational stuff. When I was dating him, I would respond to these emails within a few hours...it was a way for us to both pass the workday, emailing back and forth. Now, since we aren't, I wait a day or two to respond. I'm unsure of his intentions and I'm trying to safeguard myself.

 

I'm kind of confused...does all of this mean he honestly want to be friends? Or is he trying to see if he can actually cope with being friends before sending me another email in which he'll say he doesn't think we should hang out anymore? Should I even go to the movies with him? Or should I just tell him to leave me alone?

[DN]

This guy is too confusing and problematical. Never mind what he wants - what do you want? Decide that and then decide if he can offer it to you. If he cannot, then move on to someone who can.

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

I agree with DN. From what you've described this guy goes forward and backpedals so much it's hard to get a grasp on what the heck he wants. The important thing is to ask yourself what you want. I get the feeling that all you'll ever be to him is a friend though. It seems thats all he can offer, despite wanting more.

[Ms Omaniac]

this guy seems confused. he doesnt even know what he wants but it also sounds like he wants to keep his options open and keep YOU still there instead of you trying to date someone else.

 

which basically he wants to keep you there JUST IN CASE he ever decides to get ready to have a relationship.

 

he probably also isnt doing this to be intentionally mean or selfish. he's just confused.

 

i know i met my current bf from yahoo personals. also...on our first date...we had sex. but he has never backed down and wanted to stop seeing me because he was confused. he knew he wanted a relationship and was ready and is still giving it all that he can possibly give.

 

i think your guy isnt ready for a full blown relationship. also, he's told you he isnt ready for one. and even though he changes his mind later....he probably hasnt changed his mind but more he's lonely and misses a person's touch.

[sbrew21]

Well not that I am in ever favor of playing games but if you really wanted to you could totally get this guy to fall for you. Its just you got to play your cards right. If you don't really want to deal with the effort then I wouldn't go out with him, but since he is messing with your head so much why not mess with his. I know eveyrone on enotalone will totally disagree with me but tell him you will go with him. Then cancel. Be extremely indifferent. Guys like that always want what they can't have. Say you are available but then other things come up.

 

He just doesn't know what he wants so he's keeping you around until he figures it out. Its up to you if its worth it our not!

[WildChild]

Well not that I am in ever favor of playing games but if you really wanted to you could totally get this guy to fall for you. Its just you got to play your cards right. If you don't really want to deal with the effort then I wouldn't go out with him, but since he is messing with your head so much why not mess with his. I know eveyrone on enotalone will totally disagree with me but tell him you will go with him. Then cancel. Be extremely indifferent. Guys like that always want what they can't have. Say you are available but then other things come up.

 

He just doesn't know what he wants so he's keeping you around until he figures it out. Its up to you if its worth it our not!

 

I agree with ya sbrew21

[finneganswake]

I like this guy. Despite his imperfections, he is a genuinely decent person and I hold a great deal of respect for him.

 

I just have this feeling that his past girlfriend really, in some way, changed him, made him less giving and sure of himself emotionally. He once said "you know, how would you deal if one day, upon telling your bf that you loved him, he said he didn't anymore? That's how it was for me." That has to hurt...

 

 

I want to hang out with him. Aside from the fact that we get along well, he just seems so...lonely. Not sexually, but just a simple loneliness, if that makes sense. He has friends and an active social life, but I have come to see that some of the loneliest people are those who surround themselves with others as if to fill a void.

 

So it isn't pity, per se that is compelling me to be his friend. But...I don't know...I don't like to see good people lonely. I guess its a part of me that wants to be there for him, just as I would be there for any of my other friends.

[Relationship Coach]

FW,

Yes he could be recovering still from a serious heartbreak BUT...he had sex with you and made comments such as "he has a hard time keeping his hands off of you." Something isn't adding up, when I was getting over my ex, I had no desire to be intimate with anyone. His on again off again routine needs to broken. Turn him down next time, be unavailable to him and see how he responds. You don't want to be a second choice or a stand by.

[finneganswake]

I really want to see him on Saturday, but I suppose I should cancel.

[DN]

Well not that I am in ever favor of playing games but if you really wanted to you could totally get this guy to fall for you. Its just you got to play your cards right. If you don't really want to deal with the effort then I wouldn't go out with him, but since he is messing with your head so much why not mess with his. I know eveyrone on enotalone will totally disagree with me but tell him you will go with him. Then cancel. Be extremely indifferent. Guys like that always want what they can't have. Say you are available but then other things come up.

 

He just doesn't know what he wants so he's keeping you around until he figures it out. Its up to you if its worth it our not!

 

Playing games can backfire on you. Suppose she does what is suggested here and then never hears from him again. Not exactly the object of the game.

 

It is hazardous to play games based on what you think 'guys want' because some of them don't want what you think they want and some of them just don't understand the rules of the game.

 

Life and relationships are not card games but even if they were, gambling always includes the risk of losing.

[finneganswake]

A game implies a winner and a loser. And relationships are not about winning or losing. I refuse to play candyland with someone else's (and mine as well) feelings. If someone doesn't want me without being manipulated into being with me, then their feelings are obviously not strong enough for me. And I obviously then don't trust them enough to let their feelings grow naturally. Not a good way to start things.

[Relationship Coach]

FW,

What message is he sending to you right now? I think that is why you are here because you can't read him. He is very wishy washy and it could be for many reasons. What I am suggesting is to turn him down so he does not get the impression that he can be with you whenever it is convenient for him. What could you lose here? You said if anything you'd like to be his friend and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't end the friendship because you were not available, right? I don't think you need to worry about losing him to someone else sense that contradicts what he has told you, he's not ready for a relationship!

 

RC

[Shidoshi]

Basically, he wants to have sex with you without the added pressure of a committed relationship. If you don't want that, then you have to make a decision. He isn't going to see you as simply a "friend", so please don't delude yourself into thinking so. If you want more out of this than sex you might as well cut him loose unless he suddenly changes his mind and genuinely wants the same thing. If you only want to be his platonic friend you can count on him moving on sooner than later.

[finneganswake]

But he said he doesn't want to be intimate as friends. Its not a friends with benefits type situation. When I said "we'll see how long this friends thing lasts," he said "the proof is in the pudding...i'll prove you wrong on that to show you that i'm serious about being your friend."

[ocrob]

Despite the fact this guy sounds confused, he also sounds honest. He did not lie to you to have sex and he has not lied to you after to have sex. If you are ok being friends with him, then I say be friends. Just make sure not to give him any type of romantic affection. If he truly wants to be friends, then make it clear to him that there will be no sex involved. I have had sex with women and been completely honest that I was not looking to be involved with them. I made my intentions clear before and after. I left it up to them whether they wanted to be friends with benefits or just friends. I think it is a matter of honesty and choice. I don't think a woman owes a man sex in any circumstance. And...I don't think a man owes a woman a relationship for sex. I am guessing this may sound harsh, but I think it is all about honesty and both people being ok with the situation. If you are not ok just being his friend, then tell him that is not what you want. Just as he owes you nothing, you owe him nothing.

[patience]

He sounds very confused. He may not actually know what he wants. Is he indecisive in other areas of his life? Is this a pattern for him?

 

I suggest you get to know him better as a person before being sexually intimate again. He may have some issues you don't know about.

[finneganswake]

I'm supposed to meet him for the movies tomorrow in Edinburgh. Maybe I just won't show up.

[Mattie]

Just don't let him use you. I don't think he is doing it intentionally, he just sounds like he doesn't know what he wants. Sometimes us boys just don't really know. It takes us time to figure it all out and we don't like being pressured into anything.

 

If you're happy to just be friends with him, then meet him by all means. Saying that, you'd not be posting on here if you were 100% happy with the current situation.

[smittenkitten]

I like Ocrob's advice. As I was explaining to you in my thread, we are in similar situations.

 

I think you shouldn't play games with him. I thought about doing that to my guy, but realized that it would just be damaging. Not to mention insulting. Sure, the games sometimes work, but at what cost? He's already been damaged, and I'm not going to add any more girl-boy mental mind games to his plate. He, as a person, is important to me, and if I focused on trying to manipulate him into a relationship with me, I would not be honoring him. You want to be a good person to your guy, whether you're friends or more- especially if he's been damaged. He needs to know that there's at least one woman he can trust in his life.

 

If you are truly capable of being his friend (and it sounds like you are), then by all means do so. So do what's natural. Don't cancel your plans with him. Just treat him like you'd treat a girlfriend. I have to sometimes consciously ask myself, "What would I do in this situation if it was Joan/Jen/Lisa?" Because it's really hard to shut off the boy/girl brain dynamic once you've been intimate with someone. When I put my dilemmas in this context, it's much easier to see what to do. Do you return this email if Joan sends it? If yes, then hit return. Do you usually return Jen's phone calls immediately, or do you chill out a couple of days because you know she's not going anywhere? Do you blow Lisa off when you have plans to see a movie in Edinburgh? Nope? Ok, don't blow him off then!

 

I think the challenge here is to see if he can handle "just" being friends with you. I understand your desire to be his friend, and your compassion for his loneliness. I understand you wanting to be a "good" part of his life. So when you see him, just watch him for any signs of ambivalence. If he's trying to grope you, or doing anything boyfriendy/girlfriendy, he's not ready to be friends. I agree with everyone else here; yes, he's confused. I also agree with you that yes, he's probably worth it.

 

So if he can't put himself into the friend zone like he's promising, you might just want to talk to him and tell him that you'd love to be his friend, but right now you feel he needs more time to sort himself out. Let him know that you'll be there when he's able to approach a relationship with you with clarity, whether it's romantic or platonic.

 

I have a feeling that you're going to be the much stronger one in this situation. But if you're feeling at all ambivalent, and wondering how to turn it into something more than a friendship, then it's probably not a good idea to see him yet.

[finneganswake]

No, I am not completely happy with the situation. Not because he doesn't want more than friendship with me. I can deal with that just fine (up until two weeks ago I didn't even consider it a possibility!).

 

What I can't deal with is a feeling that maybe he's not being sincere in his offer of friendship. He thought he was ready for more, but he isn't. So I am left thinking that he feels guilty about this and is trying to alleviate his guilt and make me feel better. He keeps talking about all this stuff we can do...go running, cooking together, etc. Its like he's trying to pump himself up. Seems like he's rushing himself! My three best friends are guys...and they're not always emailing me and prattling on about stuff we can do. But I know that they are always there for me and I don't doubt their friendship they offer.

 

I am concered that he is going to break up with me again...can you even break up with friends?

 

And just to clarify, I really, really do not want to date him. He's nice and all, but not for me right now. So I am not using friendship as a means to an end.

[Shidoshi]

But he said he doesn't want to be intimate as friends.

No guy actively pursues a friendship with a girl simply just to be her "friend," especially if he's single, and even then it can mean the same thing. Not to mention he's already had sex with you. All this "confusion" talk just means the guy is still playing the field and he doesn't want to feel tied down. He wants you around as an option, so to speak.

(he said that he'll always have a hard time keeping his hands to himself around me)

Need I say more, he actually said it himself.

[finneganswake]

Well I should add that he's not really much of a dater. Sure, he might be keeping his options open, but I know that he is not dating anyone. He's very shy, a little awkward and not what most would call super attractive (I just have a thing for lanky scottish guys). If he is keeping me as an option, well..I told him in very specific terms that I didn't want to ever date him again. So he knows I'm not an "option" girl.

 

 

Just to update the situation: We hung out today and it was actually really fun. We got a drink, talked a bit and then went to the movies. It was much more relaxed and comfortable under the pretenses of being friends than dating. And not once did he even try to touch me. There were times though when it felt like we were both nervous...sexual tension perhaps? We are both still attracted to each other, so I guess that is something we'll have to get over eventually.

 

So yeah, it was a good day. I'm still worried that he is going to tell me he doesn't want to be friends soon, so I am not taking any future plans he keeps talking about too seriously. It sorta feels like he and I are dating...just without the kissing and sex. I mean because, what kind of friend makes plans for the weekend (unless they are really big) on a Tuesday? What kind of friend emails another friend everyday (he always emails me first thing in the morning)? I don't even do that with my very best of friends! Hanging out with him made me realize that..well...I do still have feelings for him and I maybe do still want to be with him (I would never tell him this though).

 

I can't help but wonder if this is his way of gradually trying to edge us back into dating...what do you all think?

[smittenkitten]

Hey Finn! (Is it OK if I call you that? I love the name "Finn"!)

 

I was wondering what you'd decided to do & how it was going!

 

I'm glad you guys had fun today. You said,

 

It sorta feels like he and I are dating...just without the kissing and sex. I mean because, what kind of friend makes plans for the weekend (unless they are really big) on a Tuesday? What kind of friend emails another friend everyday (he always emails me first thing in the morning)? I don't even do that with my very best of friends! Hanging out with him made me realize that..well...I do still have feelings for him and I maybe do still want to be with him (I would never tell him this though).

 

I can't help but wonder if this is his way of gradually trying to edge us back into dating...what do you all think?

 

Yep, I think you might be dead-on. Given that you both still feel an attraction for each other; and what you described as "sexual tension perhaps"- it sounds like there might still be potential for something more. Because you're right, guys who are interested in "just" being friends don't do all those things (making plans ahead of time- especially for the coveted "weekend" spot, which is traditionally reserved for honest-to-goodness, real actual dates!, emailing every day, etc.) In fact, most guys who give you the "Let's be friends" line actually disappear off the face of the earth- it's a blow-off line that really means "I don't actually want to be with you at all or even ever see you again and this is my nice way of sparing your feelings."

 

Heck, we girls do it, too. Guys know that whenever we tell them "I just want to be friends", that they will probably never see us again! (Although of course many times we do actually mean it, it's just something they hear as the "death-knell" of the relationship & it dashes all hopes they may have had, so they tuck tail and slink off!)

 

I know many guys who cringe at the line, "You're a really nice guy, but...". They know it's all over but for the cryin' at that point!

 

I think you're in a pretty good spot, actually. As long as you can deal with the way things are right now, yes, there's a possibility for more. Why not hang in & just see what happens? At the very least, you've got a buddy- at the most, maybe a romantic relationship down the line. But definitely, take him at his word right now and assume that he means what he says until he tells you otherwise. This is funny, because usually our struggle is to focus on a guy's actions when they don't match his words ("Yes, I care about you, Yes, you're important to me, Yes, I'd like to see where this goes"... when what he's actually doing is not calling, not asking you out, and giving every sign to indicate that his words are empty!) In your case, you're getting "Let's just be friends", while his actions signal that he's interested (perhaps) in more.

 

Anyway. I'm seeing a lot of similarities in our situations. (Of course there are differences, too! But I can relate to what's going on with you.) I'm going to post my update- possibly in a new thread. My old one is just too darn long & it's getting old. Time to let it die!

 

 

[finneganswake]

Finn is just fine to call me by.

 

That was really outrageously good advice, SK. Thank you very much and I do look forward to the update on your situation as well.

 

I have to admit though, I am a bit of a player girl (never when I am in a serious, exclusive relationship) as well as a little bit of a tease. So I am definitely going to be dating and flirting around like I usually do (all in good taste of course). I have a feeling though that he would be pretty jealous if he found out I was dating someone else. Maybe I should gauge his feelings by coming to him with a question about a guy I'm seeing (i.e as a guy, what does it mean when a guy I'm seeing does x)? I mean, if he really just wants to be friends, he wouldn't get upset, right?

[smittenkitten]

Thanks Finn!

 

Yeah, I think dating & flirting w/other guys is a good idea. You don't want to put all your eggs in his basket right now (lol!), since he seems a bit confused.

 

I wouldn't bring up the other men to him though, especially since he's been hurt & he's a bit gun-shy. It might shut him down & get him thinking he's got no chance with you. I think you can accomplish the same thing simply by not being availble every time he wants to see you- a simple, "I'd love to go out with you tonight but I've got other plans!" (without giving any details) will get him wondering without making him feel that he's got no chance. It might put him off balance enough to really examine his feelings for you, without making him get so off balance that he falls over into a ditch & gives up!