This must be a frequent question but...

[bmwsv101]

I seriously lack gaydar. Are there any ways to hone in my skills? Or are there specific things to look for (this goes for men and women)?

You see, considering myself a part of the LGBT community, it's kind of imperative that I have gaydar. I'm only "out" with close family members and close friends. So while I'm working on the coming out thing (totally separate issue), I don't feel like embarrassing myself in front of some straight girl, especially if she's a friend. I'm only good at picking out people that are more obvious, not subtle ones.

I have a gay mentor (seriously, the LGBT campus center at my university assigned her to me ) and basically all she's said is that it'll come to me the more I hang around gay people. She also randomly mentioned that lesbians are more likely to wear layers. I have no idea what that's about.

 

On top of that, I'm just sick of straight girl crushes. I hate getting close to someone, naively hoping for something that won't, and can't, be there. I'm actually having a problem with that right now...I have this friend, whom we'll call Erin, that I'm on this rollercoaster ride of uncertainty with. We got to know eachother this past summer and ever since, she's been lurking in the back of my mind. I guess that probably has to do with the circumstances of how we met, but that's a story for later (that is, if anyone doesn't mind helping me sift through the history she and I share, and giving their take on the situation).

 

So if anybody has suggestions, I'm all ears.

[Tigris]

I suggest you talk to your Gay Mentor and ask her what 'layers' means? Also ask her when the LGBT organisation at Uni has their social functions. The one close to my home sends me regular emails informing me of coffee mornings, discos, outings, etc.

 

You don't even have to be at Uni to attend, they welcome anyone.

 

Good luck and take care.

[bmwsv101]

I'm actually on the LGBT campus center's email list so I do get notified about their events. Unfortunately, most of them are for people +21 (my school is big on drinking). I think I'll eventually be able to attend some of their functions, but in the meantime, do you agree with my mentor, that I just have to hang out with gay people and then I'll just "know?" Aren't there any sort of signs/clues that I can look for in the mean time? Oh and I think she meant that lesbians wear a lot of layers of clothes. That just seems so random though.

[Tigris]

Well my Gaydar doesn't work. I fell for 3 straight women in a row!

 

I started talking to my Fiancee through her daughter Sapphos Goddess on here. Sapphos is a Lesbian and she said her Mother is a counsellor. I didn't know if I was Bi or Lesbian and was in such a mess and had nobody to talk to so she suggested I talk to her Mother.

 

So I talked to fluffy_girdlebuns by email and then eventually on MSN. I proposed to her on October 16th and she said yes. I'm doing a formal proposal on bended knee on February 18th in Australia. If she can get a plane ticket she's returning with me in March. We're getting married in 2007!

[darkblue]

People make out as if this should be a built-in knowledge to gay people.

The fact is - it is not easy to tell whether someone is gay or straight.

 

Look out for body language that could show interest.

[Jinx]

I seriously lack gaydar. Are there any ways to hone in my skills?

I think I have something similar to a gaydar but like I've said in many posts I find gay men - lesbians, no. Then again I just don't randomly pick women to be interested in, but nonetheless all have said they were straight. Except, I feel as though my gaydar isn't that bad, its the fact of people coming out and realizing themselves. Like one woman I was interested who preached straight, I seen with her girlfriend the other day. Another says straight but is sendly extremely mixed signals. Makes me wonder.

 

Anyhow, like DarkBlue has mentioned, I believe our gaydars are actually based on our abilities to read people and their nonverbal communications. Like I've told several people before, one of the very best things you can do for yourself is go out and take a Communications/Human Interaction type classes with an emphasis on speaking with people and reading language both verbal and nonverbal. If that isn't available in any shape or form at your University, then buying a book that has a huge emphasis on nonverbal communication/human communication in general is a wonderful help. I've also found a wealth of information in Social Psychology books which tackle the Liking or Loving topic. Very thorough most of the time and is an extreme help.

 

What I personally like to do, and it really helps the social skills, is choose random people. Talk to them. It doesn't matter if they're men or women (though the men may think its a sign of interest depending on the situation which isn't good but aside of that), just start up a conversation. A lot of people if they feel comfortable around you will just pour out in conversation and you learn a great deal this route. That is how I worked on my own social skills. Random "targets" and just simply talking to them about anything that seemed appropriate at that moment and let them lead off the conversation if possible.

 

On top of that, I'm just sick of straight girl crushes. I hate getting close to someone, naively hoping for something that won't, and can't, be there. I'm actually having a problem with that right now

We're in the same boat. It is difficult but often flirting signs are universal material, gay or straight. Some are quite obvious others are hard to detect under most circumstances.

 

 

 

Is a pretty good page on nonverbal if I remember, BUT a huge problem is running into women whom are flirty all around whether they're interested or not. Thus my current problem. Woman I'm interested in I just cannot tell if she is a lesbian and interested but not yet ready to come to terms, or extremely flirty and straight. The only thing that even seems to remotely be on my side is, I've only ever seen her act this way with one other woman. That being whom I suppose is a good friend of hers, I on the other hand am a different situation, we're teetering on the acquaintance and friendship level.

 

Really all in all it depends on the woman and how she acts. One of the best things to do is first get an idea on the woman's input as it relates to gay rights, marriage, adoption, anything of that nature. Hesistation and negative answers - I usually allow my interest to stray away from that person.

 

I guess that probably has to do with the circumstances of how we met, but that's a story for later (that is, if anyone doesn't mind helping me sift through the history she and I share, and giving their take on the situation).

Well, if you do want to give the history between you two and want an outside opinion on the situation, I'm always here to listen. Whether post or PM. Like I tell others, I can't guarantee my advice quality but I always try my best to help in every situation.

[BellaDonna]

My gay friends tell me I have a "gay radar" and I'm not even gay! I never heard it called "gaydar"

 

I can "just tell"- thought it doesn't help me any...so I just pass the info along to my friends.

 

It has nothing to do with the masculinity or feminity of the person either, it's just something I sense about a person's aura that tells me they're gay.

 

do you agree with my mentor, that I just have to hang out with gay people and then I'll just "know?"

 

I think that was pretty sound advice- and the best you can do until you are able to attend the 21-and-over functions.

 

Aren't there any sort of signs/clues that I can look for in the mean time?

 

not necessarily- not everyone is alike- gay people just like straight people, come from all walks of life and are very diverse. So there are not stereotypical traits to look for (except in the case of gays who decide to switch gender roles...that is a clear display). As I mentioned, for most, it has always just been a vibe or a part of aura that I have detected- not really soemthing that can be put into words.

 

I think she meant that lesbians wear a lot of layers of clothes. That just seems so random though.

 

That could also be true for someone who is overweight, someone who is self-conscious, someone who gets cold easily, or someone who just likes wearing layers.

 

BellaDonna

[FoxLocke]

My gay friends tell me I have a "gay radar" and I'm not even gay! I never heard it called "gaydar"

 

I can "just tell"- thought it doesn't help me any...so I just pass the info along to my friends.

 

It has nothing to do with the masculinity or feminity of the person either, it's just something I sense about a person's aura that tells me they're gay.

 

Belladonna, I'll buy your gaydar from you. I need it more than you do(lol).

 

I always thought gaydar was intrinsic to gay people, but no such luck with me. The only way I know someone is gay is he makes a pass at me or just tells me. If a guy were making out with another guy I'm clueless enough to think they were straight and giving each other mouth to mouth recessatation...Well, not that clueless, but I guess you get my point.

 

Where I am I don't know any other gay people, and in my college there is no gay and lesbian student unions to speak of. If there is one, or someone starts one, I'll definitely join.

 

I would love to have the ability to be able to tell a gay from a straight with 99.9% accuracy...That way I can avoid any humiliation, unrequited love, or possibly having to pepper spray someone to keep from being gay bashed.

 

I think I'll take Jinx's advice and try a non verbal communication course or publication...

It's estimated that one out of every ten people is gay...So there are more gay guys around than I probably realize.

[bmwsv101]

Well, I'll definitely have to look into the communications classes at my school and see what's offered. Seems like a sound investment of my time either way.

 

As for the story with "Erin"...here it goes. Warning: This will be long.

 

We both signed up to be apart of this summer internship by this organization by the name of the Southwestern Company. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's a publication company that specializes in door-to-door sales. Yes, we were door-to-door salespeople. I don't know what we were on when we signed up to do this job, but I guess I can rest assured that about 3000 other college students agree to do the same thing each summer, so we're not alone.

Anyway, as you can probably guess, how the summer job turned out was not expected. We were up to working hard and facing "tough" situations, but nothing like what we encountered. Working 86 hours a week, 14 or more each day outside in the extremely hot Texas sun, all by yourself in let's just call "questionable" neighborhoods, asking people that don't have enough money to properly clothe their children to buy a $300 dollar set of books from you, and of course, with the company asking things of you that were seriously cult-like, these were not things we expected. Oh and lets not forget the having to walk door-to-door just to find housing part.

Anyhow, the very first week of our job was training, which was hard and we still were busy for 86 hours of that week, but at least we were with all the people who signed up to do this from our campus. So it was that week that I got to know Erin. You know how people that go through traumatic experiences together tend to bond? Well, that's what happened in this situation. In fact, aside from Erin, some of my best friends now were people I met during that program.

Like I said earlier, I am not confident in my gaydar skills. Yet, after spending a week with this girl at "sales school" I was finding myself really hopeful, which is totally rare for me. We had a lot in common: politics, religious stance, and even social habits. On top of that, it was like this unspoken thing that she and I would sit next to eachother during all of our lectured training sessions and study our sales talks together when we had free time. I remember being kind of shocked at first when she would just show up next to me sometimes. We even made this kind of promise that we would stick through the program together and go on the Thanksgiving break trip together (the company offers the people that sell a certain amount a partially payed for trip to some location...this year, it was Cancun). We also wanted to room together for the summer, but we got assigned different roommates.

So after that week, the real summer starts and it's hard. I mean, really hard. Physically and emotionally. I didn't get to see her much after that, since we only had team meetings on Sundays, but I'd call and talk to her sometimes during the week if I had time. Eventually though, my roommates and I decided that we had seriously had enough of this crazy job and we decided to quit and go spend the rest of the summer living with my dad and working there. Of course, I'm feeling guilty though since I've told Erin that I won't quit if she doesn't, and I also don't want to just up and leave without telling her that I'm leaving face to face. So one of my roommates, we'll call "Abby", and I decided to break the rules and go see Erin during the work day. We get there, and she knows something is wrong. We're sitting on the side of the street, and we tell her that we're going and she just starts crying. Me, being the dufus that I am sometimes, didn't know what to do, especially with Abby there, so I just stupidly pulled pieces of grass off of her back. After a few minutes we went to this park and tried to convince her to come with us, and she bawled. Like we went to the other side of the park to let her call a couple of her friends to get advice, and we could hear her crying from over there. Eventually though, she regained composure and had decided that she had committed to staying through the program and that she would.

She hid it pretty effectively most of that day, but there were a few times I could tell she was pissed at me. For example, the company had scheduled an outing for that Sunday to go to the Dallas Zoo. Of course, my roommates and I would be gone by then, so I mentioned that we might go to the Zoo there. Then Erin said something along the lines of, "I hope you go to the polar bear exhibit, fall in and get eaten." Funny thing is, she sounded pretty serious.

Basically, I referred to that day as the beginning of the end. I left, and she stayed to complete the summer. After we were gone, I pushed my roommates so we would send her cookies every couple of weeks. Aside from the random emails every once in a while, I only talked to her twice the rest of that summer. They were decent conversations, though every once in a while, she would get angry out of nowhere for about 5 minutes. She had me seriously wondering if the summer was a detriment to her mental health or something. She talked of feeling like a failure, and gaining weight from eating extra food to comfort herself.

So when school started up again, I was anxious to see her. I didn't know if it would be all that great, but I still wanted to of course. Basically, things were okay though awkward at times when she would bring up that we abandoned her. You have no idea how guilty I feel about that. Sometimes I wonder if I should have just dealt with the evil summer job and stayed for her, though I know that sounds weird.

Anyway, our friendship since then has been sort of off and on. I went for a month or two this fall not seeing or speaking to her at all because I felt it was pointless and I really didn't want to put myself through that. Then out of nowhere, I got invited to have breakfast with her and one of my old summer roommates. Now we have breakfast (the three of us) every Sunday when school is in session. Things are better between the two of us now, like a couple of weeks ago, I spent 8 hours with her studying for finals and it was fine, almost like normal.

The problem though, is that I still have no idea if she likes me in more than a friendly way. I've learned that she's a really complex person and she's sooo difficult to read. I know from what she's told me that she finds is pointless to hold on to friendships that aren't fufilling, and she's said that if she didn't want to see or hear from me, then she just wouldn't answer my calls and she would pretend she didn't notice me when we pass on the street. She's very matter of fact about all of this. She's the type of person that feels she is her own best friend and that there are secrets and parts of herself that she will always keep secret. She characterizes herself as a romantic person, yet she just confessed to me that she might not get married, that she'd just adopt a child and raise him/her on her own.

She also says very contradictory things that make it hard for me to come to some conclusion on her sexuality. She talks about boys sometimes, and I know she recently had a big crush on this guy in one of my classes, but then she goes and says something like she finds the vagina to be so much more beautiful and "asetically pleasing" than the penis. I know she's not homophobic, since we've talked about gay issues before. Just the other night when I was talking to her she mentioned that she saw Brokeback Mountain on its opening night, and that it was wonderful and that I should definitely see it. One of my gay friends humorously pointed out, "Hey, she's extremely liberal. She's a vegetarian. She loves cats. And she drives a manual Subaru Outback. Of course she's a lesbian." While I laughed, I only wish it were that simple.

I'm sorry this post is so long, but as you can see, the history here is quite complicated. If you need any other examples of these conflicting things that she does, oh I've got plenty. (One interesting thing she suggested recently was that after spring break, we're to sit down and plan a 1-2 week camping trip to Washington State for this summer. Just me and her.) So let me know what you think. I really like her, and I when we hang out together I just don't understand how she has these issues with boys. How could they not see how complex she is and act accordingly? Granted, I don't have a full grasp on part of her, but really, sometimes I feel like I could do so much better than the latest guy she liked. I just want to say, "Hey, I'm right here. Right under your nose." But on the other hand, maybe she already knows that.

 

So...what do you all think?

[KIDD]

From personal experience, I sorta have gay-dar, sometimes a certain glance or look can tell me what a person is thinking. I heard something interesting about dilated pupils.. If a person is attracted to you, your pupils will get bigger & your eyes will get real big & glossy. I guess it could work for gay people too.

[Jinx]

If a person is attracted to you, your pupils will get bigger & your eyes will get real big & glossy. I guess it could work for gay people too.

Yes. One study actually had a deal of men and women. This consisted of allowing straight men to view a poster of an attractive woman, their pupils would dilate to help in the viewing. When straight men seen a man or unattractive man, their pupils would narrow and show disinterest, distaste or aggressive signs. It was the same visa versa for straight women.

 

With the gay men and lesbians it would apply in the light that when a lesbian is interested in a woman, most likely her pupils would dilate to a degree to suit her interest and view in that woman. Now a man or unattractive woman would cause the disinterest, distaste, aggression response of pupils constricting.

 

Of course, this is not a fool proof thing as I've said in many of a post. You can't really drag off and tie down your love interest in a stable testing environment where the light and seating and everything is perfect so that their pupils would only reflect feelings. Many other factors can cause a constricting or dilating response in the pupils. I believe if you're in a negative mood or atmosphere it was reasoned that even if you see a beautiful man or woman your eyes have a priority list and they may not be on it unless you're suddenly struck by them and causes an improvement or there is a sudden sexual interest that overtakes the aggression or negative prior feelings that would otherwise mask.

 

I had made a couple response posts awhile ago about how certain signs of interest could apply to gay men and lesbians and similarities between opposite and same sex techniques of attraction that covered all these nonverbal and verbal bases.

 

You know one major sign that I noticed about myself when I'm interested (and didn't notice it until the woman had a mirror like item behind her), I tilt my head. It is believed that women especially tend to lean their head and expose their neck almost in a submissive fashion when they show interest in another man or woman. So that all may be worth checking.

 

One key is try the lingering eye contact. Make and keep eye contact, if she is shy her eyes may bounce around all over the place but if you two stop the topic peacefully (as not to be misinterpreted as a challenge as eye contact can often be, more often with men though than women) and you keep looking at her for that prolonged moment even to the most nonverbally inept, it will send a message "I'm interested in you, see? I'm still looking." Of course too long may creep her out. One of those nonverbal things you need to work on, there is such a fine line between under done, perfect, and overdone.

 

Now for the other woman and what you've explained.

 

The approach I would take, when all is peaceful but not overly jubilant as you don't want to ruin a perfect moment, bring up that day she was crying. Be honest, tell her you aren't too good with words or physical comforting and wanted to help but didn't want to make her feel awkward or worse, whatever fits best. Then say you are still quite concerned about the situation and if she wanted to talk to you about it you're there.

 

One of the best things you can do for a complex person, is tell them essentially that - I like you, I love you, I appreciate you, I respect you, in every single aspect of life and you can tell me everything and anything and I'd not hold it against you, amen. - Of course telling her that may be perceived as joke matter so a safer route maybe adding on - Hey, if you ever need to talk about something I'm here. You can tell me anything, I don't judge people and just want to help. - This usually works like a charm.

 

It may take them awhile to warm up to the thought even sometimes they become suspicious about it but once they really need to get something out and recall the I've got a ear if you've got a mouth with a problem comment and let it all out and you do just what you say. Respect and don't judge them only help, the floodgates will most always rush and heavily so.

 

These people are usually complex seeming for a reason, another point why they aren't extremely open because the wrong thing that they may get judged on will pop out and ruin friendships.

 

Also, when she brings up a topic such as that one about being more pleasing and attractive, I'd say you could side with the women's side. Agree nonchalantly that you too believe it is, you can also list the reasons why you believe so but without going overboard. It gets the point accross to her that "Yes, I like that too."

 

She may very well be Bisexual or is in a state of confusion with her feelings. Then again she could be straight but even your gay friend despite his joke, I can see his points. Without overanalyzing she does have a deal on the side of possible interest in you, and it may be a degree of that complexity is attached to her sexuality, could very well be wrong but worth thinking. Another point is, if she is that liberal open and understanding I think expressing your interest in women could be done in a subtle or expressive manner with little negative thoughts from her. I have a feeling that if you were to let out your orientation to her she'd be more prone towards making a short sweet and simple statement about I like this, but I prefer that. Her orientation in a nutshell answer.

 

Right now she seems like she really just needs someone to confide in, that agrees and accepts her, and holds no problems. One of the worse things is going through the world with such a burden on your shoulders knowing that few will listen and accept, but once you find that gold mine of a sweetheart who will listen (male or female) its wonderful. That may just be what she needs first from you before anything else.

[Prufrock06]

"Belladonna, I'll buy your gaydar from you. I need it more than you do(lol).

 

I always thought gaydar was intrinsic to gay people, but no such luck with me. The only way I know someone is gay is he makes a pass at me or just tells me. If a guy were making out with another guy I'm clueless enough to think they were straight and giving each other mouth to mouth recessatation...Well, not that clueless, but I guess you get my point"

 

I'm going to outbit you on this one because I'm another one who desperately needs an education in how to tell if another guy is gay (if that's even possible), haha! I got my gaydar in the mail when I came out to myself this past summer, but it came with some assembly required and no instruction manual, so I'm out of luck I think. ANd I never give myself the benefit of the doubt when I think that some guy might be gay -- I always try and sabatoge the situation by focussing on the ways in which he's not gay. I, too, am clueless. Not sure if I can order a new one or what, lol

 

Jinx, how much would you be willing to sell yours for? Or at least provide me with some tips on how to spot gay guys?

 

But seriously, this lack of gaydar or malfunctioning gaydar (for both gays and lesbians) is frustrating to say the least and probably explains why so many of us go through these tortuous "straight crushes" in which we hold out hope that our crush is gay or lesbian when in fact there might be no such luck. You can either play off stereotypes or generalizations or look deeper into things like nonverbal communication and eyes with dilated pupils (wow...eyes have to be hands down the cutest feature on guys, IMHO). Either way, it seems like the best thing to do is work on a case by case basis.

 

At least until someone invents a 100% reliable gaydar that you could buy at a hardware store or something like that.

[KIDD]

At least until someone invents a 100% reliable gaydar that you could buy at a hardware store or something like that.

 

Yo, that would be so nice lol. If it was expensive I would really buy it! Imagine going to a mall & just have gaydar detector pointing at different men at the mall. The radar would go to gay or straight & if he's a cute guy & he's on the gay side.... ding ding ding! We have a winner!

 

I always end up getting mixed signals & this frustrates me, one day, some guys act interested & the next day.. they don't.

[FoxLocke]

Not only would I: work overtime; sell my car, comic collection, and furniture, I'd also donate pints of blood just so I could afford a gaydar machine.

 

Mine would identify all gay men and read the biorhythms of the ones that were interested in me(and that I thought were cute. Yes, my gaydar machine would know my tastes). My gaydar would also give off a subliminal message that only gay men interested in me could detect, in effect drawing them to me like a magnet.

 

Heck, I would even start collecting cans on the side of the road just to get enough money for that kind of invention!

[Jinx]

Jinx, how much would you be willing to sell yours for? Or at least provide me with some tips on how to spot gay guys?

Well Prufrock, one of these days I have a feeling I'll become extremely frustrated with it and next thing you'll know I'll be walking around with a sign, "Gaydar. Finds gay men. Useless on Lesbians. Free to a good home."

 

For me though, I think its more of an issue that I become bored on random intervals and often I find it most entertaining to watch people interact. Like I said in another post - You look at men in a elevator. They [straight men] under most circumstances will do anything to avoid touching shoulders with other men. If you cram a bunch of straight men into a car without any female or space barrier between them, they will be distressed to say the least.

 

Another point is, rarely do you see straight men invading each others personal space. Men have a much larger personal space area than women do with one another, and should one move in, you will see an aggressive body response and posture changes. Muscle tensing, straighter upright posture, arm crossing depending on the man, step backwards and such.

 

One of my best strategies for deciding if a man may possibly be gay is to simply observe him in active conversation with another man. One scenario with a man he knows well, another scenario with a stranger. I prefer to see both but can't have everything. Actually it may be worth considering as it relates to crushes, instead of joining in a conversation, it is always interesting to watch. If you can watch him in close contact with other friends or strangers it can be a good experience.

 

Notice the use of his hands, his eyes, movements. Gay men tend to use more submissive gestures during their speech than straight men, because the gay man despite actively pursuing and wondering doesn't have same barrier and feel of challenge as the straight man does when the gay man approaches. Not feminine gestures, just submissive. Though that doesn't always hold true, because more confident the gay man becomes it seems less he will use of this or if he is confident in his own abilities.

 

Actually for me it shows extremely more so in your masculine men than the more feminine types. When you flirt or are interested there are actions you take that you often won't notice. I just learned not too long ago (may of mentioned this earlier) that I tilt my head when I'm flirting and will lean forward to the person of interest but not excessively so (known as mirroring).

 

Their gaze will still linger just momentarily after the end of a peaceful conversation (thus it isn't out of male challenege/dominance), certain males won't all out show their palms but you get a loosely closed hand arm upward elbow resting against a table often facing towards the man of interest. Men don't often lick their lips when in the presense of another male, straight or gay, but you will sometimes see some subtle movement with the tongue and lips, at times you will hear a slight but still recognizable emphasis on words or phrases.

 

Of course like with anything it doesn't apply to all men, but those which force themselves to act straight usually if you observe will make their social movements seem extremely forced and that in itself is an indicator because it isn't easy to cover up what your subconscious is telling you to do. That I think is what makes a lot more people wonder than a man acting feminine or submissive gestures, we can often sense nervousness and tenseness which seems to have no base source which can make an individual question. Subtle gestures which are allowed to flow are often more undetected because they don't give off the same frustrated air that repression does.

 

I've taken a deal of courses and worked with different programs and situations which deal with just reading people between their verbal and nonverbal communication so I often just lean back and watch this but a lot can easily go undetected by the untrained eye, I'm no communication professional either. Often when I'm working with an individual with a deal more time dedicated to courses or are an aspiring professional in the field they'll make note of things I wouldn't ever think of.

 

Don't know if that actually helps much suggesting you all go out and watch your crushes like you're obsessed people but actually if you can casually watch him interact and take note of subtle differences it may be worth the time and effort, like I say not always fool proof, especially we can usually read the opposite gender better than our own but sometimes you notice things that are a red flag that you wouldn't of even considered when you were talking to that person directly.

 

Oh and another thing you can try (cruel as it may sound using others for experimenting on nonverbal), is do find a feminine man, talk to him. Engage in casual conversation, note his changes especially if he shows interest. Therein you can earn an idea of interest expression when it is free open and flowing, it can then be refined gradually to the point where you can notice the same signals in the men who appear straight but are questionable.

 

Heck, I would even start collecting cans on the side of the road just to get enough money for that kind of invention!

If can collecting cans meant the perfect money source for a gaydar, I think we'd have ourselves a group effort going. Know I'd be out there

[bmwsv101]

Oh how I wish there were more precise distinctions! Like, maintain eye contact for "x" seconds and you're good! I'll have to keep the eyecontact, the mirroring and neck tilting in mind when scoping people out When it comes to personal space, I find myself very conscious of it. I barely touch anyone (except for those I'm really close with) because to me, touch means something and I don't want anyone misunderstanding how I feel about them (or maybe becoming clued in to how I feel about them). I think this tends for me to overanalyze how other people act in regard to personal space, because I'm judging them by my standards. For me, reaching out and touching someone that 1) isn't related to me, or 2) I haven't spent years getting to know, is not casual. It is definitely sending a signal. Like going out on a limb sort of signal. But that's me, not the rest of society obviously.

 

So analyze this and tell me what you think: One day this summer, I was goofing off and acting like a little kid, trying to gross people out by clenching my fist and moving a vein back and forth accross a tendon in my hand (some girls can be easy to gross out). I was laughing and showing it to Erin, and she did the whole "eww" thing, and put her hand over mine to cover up the moving vein. Me, being as conscious about personal space as I am, immediately looked up at her, and I swear, she held my gaze (her hand on mine still). Then someone came up to speak to us, so we pulled away. I don't know how long the eye contact was, so I don't know if it was actually "lingering" but it was long enough for me to immediately think "Hey, what was that?"

Oh and what about batting eyelashes? Is that something only done in old movies, or does it actually mean something if a girl bats her eyelashes at you?

 

"Also, when she brings up a topic such as that one about being more pleasing and attractive, I'd say you could side with the women's side."

 

You know, I can't even remember what I said after she made that comment. I probably just nodded or something...But I'll try and remember that for the next time. Thinking back on our time spent together, I think there could have been a few instances like that, where she might have been trying to figure out my stance on things, but I probably didn't give a very representative answer.

 

As for letting her in on my orientation, I might just have to do that. Me being cautious and conservative (not in the political sense), I'd probably be a nervous wreck by the time I told her, but I think it would be worth it. I don't think she'd have some sort of negative knee-jerk reaction or anything, I'm just concerned that if she is straight and somehow puts it together that I like her, that she'll be weirded out. On Halloween, this guy we both know tried to hold her hand, and she let him since they were both really drunk, and she thought it was no big deal. But the next day, he left her a message kind of asking her out. She likes him as a friend though, not as a prospective boyfriend, and I think she hasn't talked to him since because she was worried about awkward moments or leading him on or something. I do not want that to be me. As I mentioned earlier, if she thinks a situation will be uncomfortable for her, she has no problem avoiding it completely.

 

I had previously wondered about bringing up that day she was crying in the park. Obviously, it'd have to be just me and her hanging out for me to bring up such a personal topic. I feel like for those moments she was crying, that I saw her at her at one of her most vulnerable times and I didn't respond appropriately. Here's a question: what if she was actually interested in me, but due to my inexperience, I just didn't catch on quick enough? Do you think it's possible to get her to open up again?

 

"Right now she seems like she really just needs someone to confide in, that agrees and accepts her, and holds no problems...That may just be what she needs first from you before anything else."

 

I agree. I really think she needs someone who will just accept her and really work to understand all that she is. That is what I want to do, whether anything romantic develops between us or not. I think she works really hard to seem completely independent and like she doesn't need anyone, but I think deep down she craves whole acceptance of who she is. I mean, as complex as she is, whatever flaws she may or maynot have, I think she's a wonderful person (hence the crush). I wish she knew that (maybe minus the crush part). But it's not every day that you just go up to someone and tell them that you think the world of them.

[bmwsv101]

I just remembered this thing that comedienne Judy Gold said in one of her routines. She mentioned that one problem for gay people is that they're constantly questioning the sexuality of everyone around them. See, straight people often live in this blissful world where the underlying assumption is that everyone is also straight. And lucky for them, over 90% of the time they're right. Unlucky for us, since we have to constantly search for the people that play on our "team."

She also joked about gay people being attracted to every decent looking person of the same sex. While you might say that straight people are attracted to every decent looking person of the opposite sex, they happen to have odds and statistics on their side. Shucks for us.

[FoxLocke]

I just remembered this thing that comedienne Judy Gold said in one of her routines. She mentioned that one problem for gay people is that they're constantly questioning the sexuality of everyone around them. See, straight people often live in this blissful world where the underlying assumption is that everyone is also straight. And lucky for them, over 90% of the time they're right. Unlucky for us, since we have to constantly search for the people that play on our "team."

She also joked about gay people being attracted to every decent looking person of the same sex. While you might say that straight people are attracted to every decent looking person of the opposite sex, they happen to have odds and statistics on their side. Shucks for us.

 

Even though I want to find that quote funny it really makes me sad.

It sucks having to try and search so hard to find someone, and it scares me that I might end up A-L-O-N-E. I don't want to end up being that gay best friend in romantic comedies who helps the heroine get the guy, but ends up cracking jokes and sipping on a martini...To me that is a fate worse than death.

I really do want to meet someone that I can share the rest of my life with. And, unfortunately, I'm stuck playing this dang guessing game.

 

Well, when I do find Mr. Right I'll appreciate him immensely...

[bmwsv101]

I think that's a fear of most people. No one wants to end up alone...it's scary. One of the best things in life is sharing experiences and emotions with other people. I agree with you though, I think LGBT people probably deal with this fear to a much larger degree than straight people. Not only do we have to play this guessing game, but we also risk being persecuted for it. It's a tough situation to say the least. So if I ever develop that elusive gaydar, I'll share the wealth

 

I talked to Erin two nights ago, and I'm supposed to call her when I get back in town so we can hang out or something. Being that right now I'm visiting my father and his new evangelical family, I'm having a hard time resisting calling her every time I feel like I need political and moral backup. But considering that I'm only here till the 8th, I figure I should just hold to our agreement and wait till I get home to call her. But when I do call her, what do you think would be a good situation for us to be in (getting coffee, movie, dinner, etc?) for me to properly judge any signs she might or might not be sending?

[bmwsv101]

I'm going to breakfast and then to hang out with her in about a half hour...hopefully all will go well

[bmwsv101]

So I ate breakfast with her at 9, then we went and got chai, then went to her apartment and just talked and watched a movie, and napped. Then then we read and did random stuff. After a while I got hungry again, since by then it was around 2 pm, and she made me some soup and then we sat at her kitchen counter and ate, and read the newspaper. It was all really weird. I felt like I was in one of those movies in which people are really quirky and do bizarre things and everyone loves how "unique" they are. Cause seriously, who invites people over to their apartment so they can end up taking naps? She and I are close and all, but I wouldn't have purposefully taken a nap in front of her just randomly like that.

The day was weird, but good. She wants to see Brokeback Mountain again, so she said that she and I should go. We also talked about not having the urge to have sex (in the heterosexual sense of the word). Oh and I wrote her this funny poem while i was there, that was ridiculous but it had a few serious points to it as well. She said it was good and that she would write me one while she was at work this evening. I don't know if she'll remember to or not, but whatever.

This girl has me so confused. I have no idea what to do. One of my friends says that if it was a slightly different situation and I at least knew that it was possible for her to be attracted to women, then all the things she's done so far would have been clear signs that she's interested. He has a point, but there's always that chance that she's just a weird and interesting straight girl who likes to take naps with her good friends.

I really need some advice on this one.

[Erk]

From personal experience, I sorta have gay-dar, sometimes a certain glance or look can tell me what a person is thinking. I heard something interesting about dilated pupils.. If a person is attracted to you, your pupils will get bigger & your eyes will get real big & glossy. I guess it could work for gay people too.

 

I also have a gaydar, which is pretty okay. The eyes part is definitly a way you could tell. I'm a weird person, so I go around doing random things. Sometimes I widen my eyes really big, cover my mouth, and point at someone for no reason. I remember at our dance, I did this to a guy friend (Who I had a crush on, if you remember from my topic before. He just wanted to be friends.. *sigh*) and he did it back to me, [This was before I knew he was "Bi"] and I remember when we were staring at each others eyes, I felt like I was going to faint in bliss, and my eyes felt so dreamy and sort of vibratish. His eyes were sort of different looking than usual..they looked so cute but I don't remember if they were dreamy like mine, all I remember is that they were different.

 

Other things that will make things easier to tell are the movements. If they use their hands a lot to show expression, if their hands are wavy, if their legs are like in close when they walk, if they have a lisssssssssp in their talking, if they are usually quiet or have a usually soft-spoken voice.

[Jinx]

She wants to see Brokeback Mountain again, so she said that she and I should go. We also talked about not having the urge to have sex (in the heterosexual sense of the word).

That if I am understanding it properly may be a positive sign, it is one of those open for interpretation because it can be she is a lesbian, or it could very well mean she isn't interested in engaging in sexual acts at this point. Hard to really say.

 

Oh and I wrote her this funny poem while i was there, that was ridiculous but it had a few serious points to it as well. She said it was good and that she would write me one while she was at work this evening.

This is interesting, and depending on the content she writes, you may be able to use it. Maybe worth a good read, but not overanalyzing if she does do this.

 

This girl has me so confused. I have no idea what to do. One of my friends says that if it was a slightly different situation and I at least knew that it was possible for her to be attracted to women, then all the things she's done so far would have been clear signs that she's interested.

Just have to love those mixed signals and playing the guessing game. It can drive a person up the wall. That is one of my worst problems is having a woman who acts interested, then is suddenly straight and the next moment who knows what to think. I would continue to pursue this, if she isn't a lesbian she is simply extremely open and if so I don't believe she'd hold it against you if you said something at the right time.

 

He has a point, but there's always that chance that she's just a weird and interesting straight girl who likes to take naps with her good friends. I really need some advice on this one.

The bottom half of this quote interests me, most straight women I know just don't take naps with their friends. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but usually there is some degree of a space barrier. Not a sure fire sign of course but it is one to keep in mind.

 

Thinking ahead in a sense, have Valentines Day plans? This is one worth thinking about. See what she is up to or what she'd like to do, maybe you two could make plans. From what I've observed if you're bold enough Valentines Day will usually be a make or break point for telling if someone is possibly attracted. It is just the Holiday of love, and if she is busy with someone else she'll let you know. If she is interested in finding a man, then she will most likely have plans and be out and about on Valentines, at least that is my observational experience. Most that are actively seeking a relationship are out at parties or events, or they're at home or spending time with a person they're interested in. I don't know about Valentines day present, again, it depends on her as an individual, that could say a lot but it could also spook her if she isn't interested. Depends on you and what you'd be interested in.

[bmwsv101]

So I had lunch with her yesterday and it was interesting I guess. We just sat and talked for about 2 hours and then I walked her to her apartment. I'm also supposed to be having lunch with her and several of our friends tomorrow, and on Friday, it's my birthday party which she will be at. So at least I'm scheduled to see her pretty often for the next week or so. After that it will probably be more of an effort to spend one-on-one time with her again (But since we haven't seen Brokeback Mountain yet, that's a good excuse too).

Our conversation yesterday was pretty asexual. She did mention that guy she had liked but how hanging out with him now was weird since he acts differently. So I told her that she doesn't deserve to be around people that don't respect her and treat her like she's worthy of their time.

I should mention that she's a pretty awkward girl. She's really cute, and smart and socially aware, but sometimes she's just awkward in social situations. Even though she and I are pretty cool, and I can handle silence when around people, and I don't flip out about her quirks, I don't know how to always read her simply because she's so...awkward.

However, I'm starting to think that might actually be attracted to women too and has the capabilities to have relationships with women, but that she doesn't know it, or isn't ready to accept it. The more I observe how she is, I am starting to think that she and I will just become good friends, and one day, she'll be able to accept this other part of herself. I just don't want her to feel like I've forced anything upon her or that I'm preying on her, eagerly trying to convert the straight girl. That's one big reason as to why I've been so cautious. But I have dropped my share of hints at my personal orientation, from the fact that we discuss my love of "The L Word," and that I've told her that I would never date this guy friend of ours that I see probably every day because "we just aren't compatible in that way" even though we're best friends.

I guess I'll see how lunch tomorrow goes...

[EnglishSilver]

I think my gaydars pretty good, and my eldest son (straight) seems to have inherited it! I have thought myself to have been wrong a couple of times only to discover that the person in question was in denial at the time, so going to trust my instincts from now on.!